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Title: Rick Perry is Right: Social Security Really is a Ponzi Scheme
Source:
Dissenting Opinions
URL Source: http://jwpegler.blogspot.com/2011/0 ... -is-right-social-security.html
Published: Sep 10, 2011
Author: Eric Blankenburg
Post Date: 2011-09-10 21:05:00 by jwpegler
Keywords: None
Views: 114662
Comments: 228
Rick Perry's comments during this week's GOP debate at the Reagan library has caused quite a stir in the liberal media. During the debate, Governor Perry defended the words in his book, calling Social Security a "Ponzi scheme". After the debate, the "analysis" on MSNBC was truly fun to watch as every commentator sat shelled shocked over the fact that a politician would dare to use these words to describe America's most sacred welfare program. The only person on the panel who had a clue about what might be going on was Ed Schultz who at one point questioned whether or not whether young people would stick with Obama or jump on the Perry bandwagon. Unlike the political and media establishment in this country, young people understand that they are going to get the short end of the Social Security "inter-generational compact". Schultz surprisingly realized that Perry's message might resonant with young people. Let's take a quick look at the Social Security system and see if Perry might be on to something. The people who got into the Social Security system very early got back on average 15 times the amount of money they paid in. They got a great deal and were raving proponents of the system. The people receiving Social Security benefits today are getting back on average 2 1/2 to 3 times what they paid in. They are also generally strong proponents of the system. Today, Social Security is paying out more every year than it takes it. We are borrowing money from the foreigners, like the Chinese and Saudis to pay current benefits. As the huge Baby Boom generation retires, the amount of debt we incur each year will quickly escalate until it blows up in our face and old people without resources really do wind up in the street. So, what happens when my generation starts to retire in 15 to 20 years and what will happen to my kids? We will all be left holding the bag. There is a financial MODEL that describes this. The model is called a Pyramid scheme or Ponzi scheme or a Bernie Madoff scheme. The people who get it in early make out like bandits and the people who get it late get screwed. That is exactly how the Social Security system will play out. The fact is that the Social Security is a pay-as-you-go welfare system that transfers money from young, struggling families to relatively well-to-do retired people. There isn't any "trust fund". The words "trust fund" are used to describe a mountain of debt. A mountain of debt is NOT a trust fund. It's a mountain of debt. Today, the mountain of debt in the Social Security system is so great that it cannot be paid. Peel away the emotion, the Orwellian language about the "trust fund", and the other political rhetoric, and just look at the financial facts. Then this all becomes very clear. Rick Perry is absolutely right and I am actually impressed that a politician would tell the truth about this. It's truly amazing. The big question is what can be done? Long term, people need to be able to save for their own retirements. Social Security needs to be taken back to it's roots as a program that supplements the income of retirees who are truly poor, through no fault of their own. Today, 25% of people over 65 have pension or investment income that places them in the "wealthy" category. They still get Social Security benefits, so long as they don't work for their income. Why should young struggling families hand money over the wealthy retired people? They shouldn't. Means testing Social Security will go a long way to make it solvent for the future. When Social Security was implemented, the retirement age was 65. The average life expectancy was 59 for men and 61 for women. Most people didn't live long enough to get a check. Today, the retirement age is still 65. However, life expectancy is 73 for men and 78 for women. The math just doesn't work. We need to gradually raise the retirement age to keep up with life expectancy. Bravo to Perry for telling it like it is. I certainly agree with Ed Schultz that a lot of young people will find this message appealing. The other group who should find this message appealing are wealthy retirees who are stealing from their children's and grandchildren's future. Will they finally put their selfishness aside and say: "no more"? Probably not, but we'll see.
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#68. To: Godwinson (#66)
[Godwinson] That is a matter of opinion that has to have a court figure out - clearly the customer who paid for the insurance thinks otherwise. That is a matter of fact that a court did figure out. I gave you to Court decision. As a matter of law, the case was kicked on summary judgment. "In ruling on a summary judgment motion, the Court construes all facts and reasonable inferences in the light most favorable to the non-moving party (here, Dawn)." With all view in the most favorable light, Dawn on no case on which to proceed to trial. That is fact. "There is no ambiguity in the contract here." Applying the law to the facts, there was no case. If you have a license suspended for DUI, and go drive drunk, and crash into a tree, under the terms of the insurance contract in place in the case you cited, MLIF has no liability according to the terms of the contract existing at the time the drunk (0.18 more than qualifies), doper (cocaine) drove into a tree killing himself. The customer who paid for the insurance did not think when he drove drunk on a revoked license, and has not thought since driving into a tree while drunk. The plaintiff who claimed the purported benefits has had time to think. The docket report does not show any appeal. This claim has no apparent visible support. If the government changes the eligibility or benefits, you do not even have a lawsuit to go to court with, unless you propose to challenge the new law as unconstitutional. If you manage to void the old law with the new, nobody has any benefits.
California investigates 10 life insurance companies over lack of payments to beneficiaries http://www.insure.com/articles/lifeinsurance/california-life-insurance-investigation.html These investigations (not cases) have nothing to do with the insurer changing the terms of benefits or refusing to pay on demand. The issue involved is the alleged failure of the insurer to identify and seek out the beneficiary of unclaimed benefits, or to pay the unclaimed benefit to the state.
What Happened to the $2.6 Trillion Social Security Trust Fund? Here’s how President Barack Obama answered CBS’s Scott Pelley’s question about whether he could guarantee that Social Security checks would go out on August 3, the day after the government is supposed to reach its debt limit: “I cannot guarantee that those checks [he included veterans and the disabled, in addition to Social Security] go out on August 3rd if we haven’t resolved this issue. Because there may simply not be the money in the coffers to do it.” And Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner echoed the president on CBS’s Face the Nation Sunday implying that if a budget deal isn’t reached by August 2, seniors might not get their Social Security checks. Well, either Obama and Geithner are lying to us now, or they and all defenders of the Social Security status quo have been lying to us for decades. It must be one or the other. Here’s why: Social Security has a trust fund, and that trust fund is supposed to have $2.6 trillion in it, according to the Social Security trustees. If there are real assets in the trust fund, then Social Security can mail the checks, regardless of what Congress does about the debt limit. President Obama’s budget director, Jack Lew, explained all this last February in USA Today: “Social Security benefits are entirely self-financing. They are paid for with payroll taxes collected from workers and their employers throughout their careers. These taxes are placed in a trust fund dedicated to paying benefits owed to current and future beneficiaries. … Even though Social Security began collecting less in taxes than it paid in benefits in 2010, the trust fund will continue to accrue interest and grow until 2025, and will have adequate resources to pay full benefits for the next 26 years.” Notice that Lew said nothing about raising the debt ceiling, which was already looming, and it shouldn’t matter anyway because Social Security is “entirely self-financing” and off budget. What could be clearer? Unconvinced, syndicated columnist Charles Krauthammer wrote a subsequent column questioning Lew’s assertions. “This [Lew’s] claim is a breathtaking fraud. The pretense is that a flush trust fund will pay retirees for the next 26 years. Lovely, except for one thing: The Social Security trust fund is a fiction. … In other words, the Social Security trust fund contains—nothing.” Social Security status-quo defenders have assured us for the past 25 years that Social Security is fully funded—for the next 25 years, or 2036. So if there are real assets in the Social Security Trust Fund—$2.6 trillion allegedly—then how could failure to reach a debt-ceiling agreement possibly threaten seniors’ Social Security checks? The answer is that the federal government has borrowed all of that trust fund money and spent it, exactly as Krauthammer asserted. And the only way the trust fund can get some cash to pay Social Security benefits is if the federal government draws it from general revenues or borrows the money—which, of course, it can’t do because of the debt ceiling. Thus, the answer to my initial question is that the president is telling the truth now in the sense that he is conceding there’s no money in the trust fund to pay benefits; but he and other Social Security status-quo defenders have been deceiving the public for decades. [snip] Merrill Matthews is a resident scholar with the Institute for Policy Innovation in Dallas, Texas. http://twitter.com/MerrillMatthews
Exactly right. That's a point lost on too many people.
Singapore has a similar system -- people save for their own retirements. The working poor get a taxpayer subsidy. This is how the Singapore healthcare system works as well, which is why they spend less than 3% of GDP on healthcare while we spend 16.5%
I should have mentioned that this is the Federal government "borrowing" from the Federal government. It's like you borrowing from yourself, spending the money, looking at an IOU from you to you, and thinking you still have the money. It makes no financial sense.
I like this Scribd thing you always use. Is it a searchable database? Do you add your own stuff there?
The analogy I always use is your checking account borrowing from your savings account. It's a complete fiction. They should put Social Security in the general fund and pay for it like any other welfare program.
They should put Social Security in the general fund and pay for it like any other welfare program. Sure. But then the Social Compact since the Winter of 32/33 is broken. The Plutocracy never knows when it has gone too far until it does....;} And then you have revolution....your call...8D ""Plutonomies have occurred before in sixteenth century Spain, in seventeenth century Holland, the Gilded Age and the Roaring Twenties in the U.S ... Often these wealth waves involve great complexity, exploited best by the rich and educated of the time." According to the Citigroup experts, a plutonomic economy is driven by the consumption of the classes, not the masses:
Phuck a bunch of classes.
As nolu chan's article stated, and no one here will respond: Were our leaders (Raygun/Greenspan) lying then? Or now? A recent EPA study estimated that just one law — the Clean Air Act — prevented 230,000 deaths, 3.2 million lost school days, and 13 million lost work days a year in 2010. The benefits of this act, including savings in medical expenses and increased worker productivity, are 30 times greater than its cost of implementation, and the benefits of regulation, more generally, also have been shown to exceed costs [PDF].
;} "“All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.” And so in the Orwellian world of the right-wing, the word “rich” is out and “job creators” is in. There simply are no more rich people in the Tea Party fantasyland. Of course, no jobs are being created, and the rich are simply sitting on their billions, accumulating a staggeringly disproportionate amount of the wealth to shame the Gilded Age — the richest “400 people have more wealth than half of the more than 100 million U.S. households,” Politifact was grudgingly forced to agree that Michael Moore’s statement was correct. So one would have to be a sheep to keep calling them job creators."
We Rat For You. ?? Nice pic James.
Its like an insurance program. No government program functions exactly like a private sector entity.
http://support.scribd.com/home http://support.scribd.com/forums http://www.scribd.com/nolu%20chan I have an account there for about two years with about 400,000 reads. You may search across your own content or the whole of scribd. You can put tags on a document just as you put tags on a thread here. The document appearing at #65 was uploaded to scribd my myself and I then just copied the embed code (sort of like a youtube) to post it here. Most scribd stuff I embed is from my own scribd account. scribd will accept Microsoft Word format for upload but recommends using only PDF format to properly retain formatting. "Collections" can be created, similar to a "folder" or "directory" in Windows or DOS. For example, here is my collection where I uploaded the 26 volumes of the Warren Commission hearings regarding the JFK Assassination. I have collections to group together the documents for lawsuits, or various topics.
It is also exhibits characteristics of a Ponzi scheme where early investors are paid with the money of later investors, and it works as long as the number of investors keeps increasing at the necessary rate. When the increase in new investors slows or stops, the system fails. An insurance company cannot unilaterally void or change its liability. The government program (a "social compact") can be changed at the whim of the government and there is no legal recourse. The private insurer is subject to enforcement by the courts. A government program or social compact is not an enforceable promise. It does not really equate to an enforceable contract in commerce, whether one chooses to compare it to a commercial retirement or insurance plan, or any other enforceable contract. It is a thing unto itself, based on the full faith of the government, and the credit of the government.
But the government can always make modifications to raise revenues. Real Ponzi Schemes always fall apart. There is no reason that Social Security must fail. When the increase in new investors slows or stops, the system fails... It does not really equate to an enforceable contract in commerce, whether one chooses to compare it to a commercial retirement or insurance plan, or any other enforceable contract. When an insurance company fails (revenue slows down too much), the state guarantee corporation must pay out benefits and may not pay out as much as originally insured for. Doesn't this indicate that private insurance does have certain characteristics of a Ponzi Scheme as well.
When a Ponzi-like government program requires more money than the government can raise, the funding will fail. The government cannot raise infinite money just by passing confiscatory laws. When the program payments exceed what those paying in can provide, something has to give. Governments can, and do, fail. Without change, the social security program will fail. The proportion of persons paying to persons receiving benefits is diminishing. At some point it becomes unsustainable. I do not see the relationship between this and a Ponzi scheme. In any case, the State does not pay out the benefits from some existing fund. It sells the remaining pieces and pays pennies on the dollar and passes on the remainder of the expense to other surviving insurance companies. http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_48/b4110100507198.htm Your Life Insurance Policy May Not Be Protected Some major insurance companies are in trouble. If they fail, policyholders shouldn't count on guarantees By Ben Levisohn [excerpt] When insurers do fail, state regulators sell off what they can and bill the remaining life insurers operating in that state to make policyholders whole. "The funds have been pretty good at providing a basic level of consumer protection," says Peter G. Gallanis, president of the National Organization of Life & Health Insurance Guaranty Assns. But the system runs on the assumption that only small insurers are likely to fail, and then only one at a time.
Especially the people who receive the checks......
When asked by a Liberal what I bought my Granddaughter for her 1st birthday I replied, "MORE AMMUNITION"!!!! -----------------------------"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
Any insight on why you'd devote so much effort to interweb forum research instead of trying to get laid?
------------------------------------- I got laid on Sunday afternoon. The database doesn't lie.
?? We Eat for You. ;}
Okay, thanks.
It's more like lending money to a close relative at interest. You may belong to the same family, but you are not the same entity.
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly
Insurance companies amend their terms all the time. Insurance companies deny payments all the time. The investigations show insurance companies doing so on a wide scale.
With the economy still in the dumper -- maybe permanently? -- and full-time jobs becoming as scarce as rain during a drought, huge percentages of Americans have had their (misplaced) faith in the American dream shaken, the upper-middle-class consumerist lifestyle is exposed as a mirage for anybody who plays by the rules. Capitalism and the America that embraced it as a way of life is now and forever more a failure. It does me good to know that the generation that voted in Reagan and his ideology will see their America die from that ideology before their very own eyes and knowing they had a hand in its destruction.
And Franklin Roosevelt is dead. So what?
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/may/24/business/la-fi-metlife-heirs-20110524 State Controller John Chiang and Insurance Commissioner Dave Jones ask whether the life insurer is boosting profits by delaying or failing to pay death benefits quickly enough to heirs or to search aggressively for the beneficiaries. The overwhelming majority of claims are submitted to the company by heirs, who provide copies of death certificates, Katz said. The Social Security master death list provides "a useful safety net when the normal processes do not work," he said. Better tracking policies should be more than just a safety net, Chiang said. The company's motto — "Get Met. It Pays" — may not be totally accurate "because it's unclear at this time what they pay," the controller said. "They have a business-based rationale for their practices instead of a consumer-based approach to fulfill their promises."
With the economy still in the dumper -- maybe permanently? -- and full-time jobs becoming as scarce as rain during a drought, huge percentages of Americans have had their (misplaced) faith in the American dream shaken, the upper-middle-class consumerist lifestyle is exposed as a mirage for anybody who plays by the rules. Capitalism and the America that embraced it as a way of life is now and forever more a failure. It does me good to know that the generation that voted in Reagan and his ideology will see their America die from that ideology before their very own eyes and knowing they had a hand in its destruction.
Who can you trust? Banks? What about the stock market? Real estate? Perhaps gold buried in the backyard?
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly
The govt using peoples wealth, funded the TVA, Hoover Dam, the Manhattan Project, the defeat of many evil empires (Axis and Soviet), ended pandemics in our lifetime, landed men on the moon and invented the computer and the internet. The private sector brought us cheap internet porn.
With the economy still in the dumper -- maybe permanently? -- and full-time jobs becoming as scarce as rain during a drought, huge percentages of Americans have had their (misplaced) faith in the American dream shaken, the upper-middle-class consumerist lifestyle is exposed as a mirage for anybody who plays by the rules. Capitalism and the America that embraced it as a way of life is now and forever more a failure. It does me good to know that the generation that voted in Reagan and his ideology will see their America die from that ideology before their very own eyes and knowing they had a hand in its destruction.
Like building a complicated machine. Or playing chess and performing a complicated maneuver. You have a tendency to not see when your Queen is mortally exposed. Same Shite....;} "Rival factions turn on leadership after the attempt to secure Bani Walid ends in chaos. Kim Sengupta reports from Tripoli September 12, 2011 The rebels had fought their way in through the narrow streets and alleyways when they ran into an ambush. A desperate appeal for help to their comrades, exiles from Bani Walid whose advice they had followed on the assault, was answered by instructions to fall back to a rendezvous point outside the town. But when the revolutionaries reached their destination, having fought their way out under intense fire, there was no sign of the Bani Walid contingent. Then, as urgent attempts were being made to establish communications, came salvos of mortar rounds and rockets."
And Franklin Roosevelt is dead. So what? Further. The gop has been desperate in their Gambit to eliminate any trace of the New Deal. Not realizing it signs their death warrant upon success. # Gross US Debt Surges By $240 Billion Overnight, US Debt To GDP ... www.zerohedge.com/.../gro...-240-billion-overnight-... - Cached You +1'd this publicly. Undo Aug 3, 2011 – However, how marketable debt could increase by a whopping $125 ... of $15.003 billion, total US debt to GDP is now a post World War II high ...
I see that you are back on the crack pipe again today.
Most of the gains in life expectancy have been made at the front end - reduction in deaths due to childhood illness. Once making it past childhood, life expectancy has only increased by a little more than 6 years for the upper class and about 2 years for the common folk.
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly
and ENRON (all form and no content).
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly
And I see that you have stopped taking your prescribed meds. Just want to feel normal. Your old self, eh? And of course note how your state and You, JW, miss the $$$ Quote from Jackie: Jackie O: LBJ Had My Husband Killed www.thenewamerican.com/.....o-lbj-had-my-husband-ki... - Cached You +1'd this publicly. Undo Aug 11, 2011 – London's Daily Mail says Jackie Onassis, the widow of President John F. Kennedy, believed Vice President Lyndon Johnson had her husband ... JFK Assassination: Kennedy's Head Wound mcadams.posc.mu.edu/head.htm - CachedSimilar You +1'd this publicly. Undo The campaign has been to push Kennedy's head wound to the very back of his head, ... None of the three had access to the autopsy photos and x-rays, so the ... Triangulation Assassination. # My God, they are going to kill us all. ... Å8; # Nellie Connally www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKconnallyN.htm - CachedSimilar You +1'd this publicly. Undo Then, she wrote, John Connally "was hit himself by the second shot and said ... "My God, they are going to kill us all" And they're still in charge....8D
And the poor see SS FICA as a tax as most will not make it to 'pay off'.
Were you in full black leather?
------------------------------------- And speaking of $2.6 Trillion stolen by the US Gov't. Here's $2.3 Trillion Missing from the Pentagon by Rumsfeld on 091001. LMFAO worth 5 minutes. Exactly right.
No, I was in my church clothes...until I hit the bedroom. It's a Catholic thing.
Then you should not be meeting such an insurmountable problem providing an on-point example. So far you have provided an example that a court threw out because the claim was explicitly outside the pre-existing coverage, and irrelevant investigations into insurance companies not paying unclaimed benefits. You have provided not a single example of an insurance company changing the terms of a policy during the term of paid coverage. They may always set new terms prior to entering into a new contract.
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest[nc] It had no legal liability to pay anything.
[Godwinson] Thus, Social Security thus is better than private versions and more reliable.
#69. To: Godwinson (#66)
Read also:
#70. To: jwpegler, mcgowanjm (#47)
They only borrowed $2.6 trillion from Social Security.
7/13/2011 @ 2:25PM |74,208 views
#71. To: nolu chan (#70)
If there are real assets in the trust fund, then Social Security can mail the checks, regardless of what Congress does about the debt limit.
Oh, God, can you ever imagine what would happen to the country if Lyndon Johnson were president? -- Jackie Kennedy
#72. To: nolu chan (#67)
Regarding SS, Chilean Plan, favored by Herman Cain, may offer an economic solution
Oh, God, can you ever imagine what would happen to the country if Lyndon Johnson were president? -- Jackie Kennedy
#73. To: jwpegler (#47)
They only borrowed $2.6 trillion from Social Security.
#74. To: nolu chan (#65)
#75. To: nolu chan (#73)
I should have mentioned that this is the Federal government "borrowing" from the Federal government. It's like you borrowing from yourself, spending the money, looking at an IOU from you to you, and thinking you still have the money. It makes no financial sense.
Oh, God, can you ever imagine what would happen to the country if Lyndon Johnson were president? -- Jackie Kennedy
#76. To: jwpegler, nolu chan (#75)
It's a complete fiction.
#77. To: mcgowanjm (#76)
#78. To: All (#76)
#79. To: Fred Mertz (#77)
(Edited)
Phuck a bunch of classes.
#80. To: mcgowanjm (#79)
#81. To: nolu chan (#34)
(Edited)
the "insurer" can change the benefits at any time and in any manner of its choosing
#82. To: A K A Stone (#74)
I like this Scribd thing you always use. Is it a searchable database? Do you add your own stuff there?
#83. To: NewsJunky (#81)
Its like an insurance program. No government program functions exactly like a private sector entity.
#84. To: nolu chan (#83)
It is also exhibits characteristics of a Ponzi scheme where early investors are paid with the money of later investors, and it works as long as the number of investors keeps increasing at the necessary rate. When the increase in new investors slows or stops, the system fails.
#85. To: NewsJunky (#84)
But the government can always make modifications to raise revenues. Real Ponzi Schemes always fall apart. There is no reason that Social Security must fail.
When an insurance company fails (revenue slows down too much), the state guarantee corporation must pay out benefits and may not pay out as much as originally insured for. Doesn't this indicate that private insurance does have certain characteristics of a Ponzi Scheme as well.
Insurance November 20, 2008, 5:00PM EST
#86. To: jwpegler (#71)
If there are real assets in the trust fund, then Social Security can mail the checks, regardless of what Congress does about the debt limit. Exactly right. That's a point lost on too many people.
#87. To: nolu chan (#82)
Why don't you make like a tree and get out of here?
#88. To: Biff Tannen (#87)
#89. To: Fred Mertz (#80)
We Rat For You.
#90. To: mcgowanjm (#89)
#91. To: nolu chan (#73)
I should have mentioned that this is the Federal government "borrowing" from the Federal government. It's like you borrowing from yourself, spending the money, looking at an IOU from you to you, and thinking you still have the money.
#92. To: nolu chan (#69)
#93. To: mcgowanjm (#76)
But then the Social Compact since the Winter of 32/33 is broken.
Oh, God, can you ever imagine what would happen to the country if Lyndon Johnson were president? -- Jackie Kennedy
#94. To: nolu chan (#68)
(Edited)
That is a matter of fact that a court did figure out.
#95. To: We The People (#27)
Government has proven that it can NOT be trusted with the peoples wealth.
#96. To: lucysmom, We The People (#95)
Government has proven that it can NOT be trusted with the peoples wealth.
#97. To: jwpegler (#93)
And Franklin Roosevelt is dead. So what?
#98. To: jwpegler (#93)
(Edited)
But then the Social Compact since the Winter of 32/33 is broken.
#99. To: mcgowanjm (#97)
Oh, God, can you ever imagine what would happen to the country if Lyndon Johnson were president? -- Jackie Kennedy
#100. To: jwpegler (#0)
When Social Security was implemented, the retirement age was 65. The average life expectancy was 59 for men and 61 for women. Most people didn't live long enough to get a check. Today, the retirement age is still 65. However, life expectancy is 73 for men and 78 for women.
#101. To: Godwinson (#96)
The private sector brought us cheap internet porn.
#102. To: jwpegler (#99)
#103. To: lucysmom (#100)
#104. To: Fred Mertz (#88)
Why don't you make like a tree and get out of here?
#105. To: Biff Tannen, Fred Mertz, All (#104)
#106. To: Biff Tannen (#104)
#107. To: Godwinson (#92)
Insurance companies amend their terms all the time. Insurance companies deny payments all the time. The investigations show insurance companies doing so on a wide scale.
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