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Title: Rick Perry is Right: Social Security Really is a Ponzi Scheme
Source:
Dissenting Opinions
URL Source: http://jwpegler.blogspot.com/2011/0 ... -is-right-social-security.html
Published: Sep 10, 2011
Author: Eric Blankenburg
Post Date: 2011-09-10 21:05:00 by jwpegler
Keywords: None
Views: 114519
Comments: 228
Rick Perry's comments during this week's GOP debate at the Reagan library has caused quite a stir in the liberal media. During the debate, Governor Perry defended the words in his book, calling Social Security a "Ponzi scheme". After the debate, the "analysis" on MSNBC was truly fun to watch as every commentator sat shelled shocked over the fact that a politician would dare to use these words to describe America's most sacred welfare program. The only person on the panel who had a clue about what might be going on was Ed Schultz who at one point questioned whether or not whether young people would stick with Obama or jump on the Perry bandwagon. Unlike the political and media establishment in this country, young people understand that they are going to get the short end of the Social Security "inter-generational compact". Schultz surprisingly realized that Perry's message might resonant with young people. Let's take a quick look at the Social Security system and see if Perry might be on to something. The people who got into the Social Security system very early got back on average 15 times the amount of money they paid in. They got a great deal and were raving proponents of the system. The people receiving Social Security benefits today are getting back on average 2 1/2 to 3 times what they paid in. They are also generally strong proponents of the system. Today, Social Security is paying out more every year than it takes it. We are borrowing money from the foreigners, like the Chinese and Saudis to pay current benefits. As the huge Baby Boom generation retires, the amount of debt we incur each year will quickly escalate until it blows up in our face and old people without resources really do wind up in the street. So, what happens when my generation starts to retire in 15 to 20 years and what will happen to my kids? We will all be left holding the bag. There is a financial MODEL that describes this. The model is called a Pyramid scheme or Ponzi scheme or a Bernie Madoff scheme. The people who get it in early make out like bandits and the people who get it late get screwed. That is exactly how the Social Security system will play out. The fact is that the Social Security is a pay-as-you-go welfare system that transfers money from young, struggling families to relatively well-to-do retired people. There isn't any "trust fund". The words "trust fund" are used to describe a mountain of debt. A mountain of debt is NOT a trust fund. It's a mountain of debt. Today, the mountain of debt in the Social Security system is so great that it cannot be paid. Peel away the emotion, the Orwellian language about the "trust fund", and the other political rhetoric, and just look at the financial facts. Then this all becomes very clear. Rick Perry is absolutely right and I am actually impressed that a politician would tell the truth about this. It's truly amazing. The big question is what can be done? Long term, people need to be able to save for their own retirements. Social Security needs to be taken back to it's roots as a program that supplements the income of retirees who are truly poor, through no fault of their own. Today, 25% of people over 65 have pension or investment income that places them in the "wealthy" category. They still get Social Security benefits, so long as they don't work for their income. Why should young struggling families hand money over the wealthy retired people? They shouldn't. Means testing Social Security will go a long way to make it solvent for the future. When Social Security was implemented, the retirement age was 65. The average life expectancy was 59 for men and 61 for women. Most people didn't live long enough to get a check. Today, the retirement age is still 65. However, life expectancy is 73 for men and 78 for women. The math just doesn't work. We need to gradually raise the retirement age to keep up with life expectancy. Bravo to Perry for telling it like it is. I certainly agree with Ed Schultz that a lot of young people will find this message appealing. The other group who should find this message appealing are wealthy retirees who are stealing from their children's and grandchildren's future. Will they finally put their selfishness aside and say: "no more"? Probably not, but we'll see.
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#149. To: nolu chan (#144)
Except that an adjustment in the amount collected was made during the Reagan administration to compensate for the dreaded baby boomer retirement.
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly
It is actually 1.75 people per social security recipient. You can't rightfully say people who work for the government who "pay" social security taxes adds anything to the system since their paychecks and "taxes" they pay is actually tax money itself. Some group did a study on this and they came up with 1.75.
Baby boomers who have publicly stated their support for abortion shouldn't get any Social Security. They should be sent to Jack Kevorkian. That would go a long way towards solving the problem and it would be just.
Jack's dead. You don't get out much, do you?
I know they should be with him. lol
You only wish death on others because you are so pro-life, yes?
That does not include the overhead for administration. At a ratio of 3:1, each worker needs to pay almost $400 per month. When it shrinks to 2:1, that would rise to nearly $600 per month. As the ratio shrinks, the burden on each worker rises at a much more rapid rate. From 3:1 to 2:1 causes a 50% increase. The ratio will continue to shrink unless the worker base increases at an impossible rate.
Everything collected has been spent, plus over 14T more. The SSA is running monthly deficits. The deficits must be paid with tax dollars from the general fund, adding to the national deficit and debt. There's a problem.
People who argue that a child is a burden and you should be able to murder er abort it. They should reap what they have sown. If they become a burden they shoudn't get any help and they should be left to themselves. Is that unjust?
That is an opinion you read, I disagree.
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly
You argue people who don't agree with you should die and claim you are pro- life. And you expect me here to argue in good faith with such insanity. Save it for your psychiatrist. He gets paid enough to hear such crap; I don't.
It is not an opinion it is a fact. They number you quoted. Does it include people who are paid with tax dollars? If it does, and it does your number is skewed and not true. You can't count people who only receive tax dollars and pay taxes that way. They aren't adding anything new to the system.
In that case, neither should they nor their employers contribute.
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly
Pro life is a term that has no definition. You say you are pro life but you would let a murderer go free. That is anti life. You say you are pro life but you vote for Obama the man who champions baby murder. Your words are hollow. I never said people who disagree with me should die. That is ridiculous. I said if someone is running around saying abortion abortion. Who is going to pay for the kid. We can't afford it. Abortion is a right. People who say that then at the end of life want government help should be aborted.
They participate in the flow of money and thus add to economic activity that takes place within our borders.
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly
That may or may not be true. But they get all of their money from other tax payers. So you can't say that it is 3 taxpayers for social security recipient. Because all of the money they put in came origianlly from someone with a "real" job. If you don't get that or can't be honest enough to admit that then that is your problem and not mine.
Your position is more akin to exposing a new-born baby to the elements.
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly
They participate in the flow by grabbing out some of the money from the producers. Thomas Jefferson said something about those people in the Declaration of Independence. They don't add to economic activity though. They just took something of what someone else produced. That person who produced it would have been to stimulate the economy with the fruits of their own labor. So the government parasite didn't add anything to the pie. They just spent it instead of someone who earned it spending it.
This post is conflicted and convoluted. It in no way merits being taken seriously. For example; being against Capital Punishment turns no murderer loose. Which makes this hyperbolic sentence utterly meaningless. As I said, save it for your shrink.
Yes I am for babies being allowed to be born and breathe air and eat food. The liberal parasite says the baby is a burden kill it. That is why Americans think of liberals as sickos. Well one of the many many reasons.
Tell that to Dukakis and Willie Horton.
Since when did Stonie ever care about any human life after birth?
Stone, if government workers pay the tax then they are taxpayers by definition. If you don't get that or can't be honest enough to admit that then that is your problem and not mine. Good try , Stone but no cigar.
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly
So you are claiming I don't care about people? Mike you are stupid if you believe that. Really stupid. Your rhetoric is separated from reality.
You're not being honest with yourself. This isn't about if the government workers are necessary or not. They don't add anything to the pie that isn't already there. So your number is inflated. I don't think you will get it. Your bran doesn't work correctly. You are infected with a mental disorder called liberalism. If you want I will try to heal you. I know you will probably resist it. But I think deep down that is why you are here, you know because you question your irrational thoughts.
Social Security Online - Ratio of Covered Workers to Beneficiaries - 1940-2085 - - - Social Security 2011, Facts and Figures
Illinois: Madison Hobley, Aaron Patterson, Stanley Howard and LeRoy Orange, pardoned in 2003 • Sent to death row on the basis of "confessions" extracted through the use of torture by former Chicago Police Commander Jon Burge and other Area 2 police officers in Chicago. They were pardoned by outgoing Governor George Ryan, who also commuted the remaining 167 death sentences in Illinois to life imprisonment. North Carolina: Jonathon Hoffman, exonerated in 2007 • Convicted and sentenced to death for the 1995 murder of a jewelry store owner. During Hoffman's first trial, the state's key witness, Johnell Porter, made undisclosed deals with the prosecutors for testifying against his cousin. Porter has since recanted his testimony, stating that he lied in order to get back at his cousin for stealing money from him. http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/issues/death-penalty/us-death-penalty- facts/death-penalty-and-innocence Our system of justice which is predicated on the notion that one is innocent until proven guilty beyond a resonable doubt is compromised by a cruel and unusual punishment that cannot be reversed should an innocent woman or man be executed and then be revealed to actually have been innocent of the crime they were convicted of. Murderers are always going to get away with their crime now and again unless we had a 'you have to break an egg to make an omlette' apprach that postulates it is preferable to kill some innocents least one guilty person escape justice. I see no rationality to your point.
So Obama should be impeached for practicing cruel and unusual punishment against babies without a court order. Screw that asshole. Now go report me to the Obamunist snitch line. Tell him I said to fuck off.
Your chart is pretty discouraging. Does it include government workers in those numbers? If it does then wouldn't you say that the actual number is quite lower as they add nothing new to the pie?
Roe v. Wade is the law of the land. You can't impeach a POTUS elected in 2008 for a SCOTUS decision made in 1972. You do not make a rational point.
It is color of law you pretend pro lifer. You're pro abortion. That is why every president that you have ever voted for in your entire life is pro abortion. You're not fulling anyone.
Richard Nixon appointed Harry Blackmun who wrote the Roe V. Wade decision. So, using your emotion trumping rational thinking modus of argument, no Republican deserves to be elected to the White House after this man wrote it and voted for it. As for my view on abortion, I have consistently made it clear for a great many years what it is, and your froth at the mouth claim I am actually for abortion might give you a feeling as warm as a pee in the swiming pool, but that does not mean it has any veracity. You have no standing as my agent to represent my political view points.
The proof is you voted for a man who is the most pro abortion in our history. That is like saying you love Jews and posting at freedom4um and voting for Hitler.
I do like Jewish people. I just have no use for Zionism. As for your hyperbolic claim that President Obama would scare the crap out of Darth Vader because he is so evil, save it for the election.
A president is under no obligation to enforce supreme court decisions. President Andrew Jackson famously told the supreme court to stuff it. Obama's watch stopped on 24 May 2008, but he's been too busy smoking crack to notice.
And it is a shame Jackson had not been appropiately sanctioned with empeachment for this concern to support this unconstitutional action. The interment of Japanese Americans in the emotional hysteria at the start of WW II was also a retracted error that was quite unconstitutional. All this proves is the system has human failings to it. So?
Social only needs to be modified to account for the change in demographics. http://www.ssa.gov/history/ponzi.htm The Logic of Pay-As-You-Go Systems In contrast to a Ponzi scheme, dependent upon an unsustainable progression, a common financial arrangement is the so-called "pay-as-you-go" system. Some private pension systems, as well as Social Security, have used this design. A pay-as-you-go system can be visualized as a pipeline, with money from current contributors coming in the front end and money to current beneficiaries paid out the back end. There is a superficial analogy between pyramid or Ponzi schemes and pay-as-you- go programs in that in both money from later participants goes to pay the benefits of earlier participants. But that is where the similarity ends. So we could image that at any given time there might be, say, 40 million people receiving benefits at the back end of the pipeline; and as long as we had 40 million people paying taxes in the front end of the pipe, the program could be sustained forever. It does not require a doubling of participants every time a payment is made to a current beneficiary, or a geometric increase in the number of participants. (There does not have to be precisely the same number of workers and beneficiaries at a given time--there just needs to be a fairly stable relationship between the two.) As long as the amount of money coming in the front end of the pipe maintains a rough balance with the money paid out, the system can continue forever. There is no unsustainable progression driving the mechanism of a pay-as-you-go pension system and so it is not a pyramid or Ponzi scheme. In this context, it would be most accurate to describe Social Security as a transfer payment--transferring income from the generation of workers to the generation of retirees--with the promise that when current workers retire, there will be another generation of workers behind them who will be the source of their Social Security retirement payments. So you could say that Social Security is a transfer payment, but it is not a pyramid scheme. There is a huge difference between the two, and only a superficial similarity. If the demographics of the population were stable, then a pay-as-you-go system would not have demographically-driven financing ups and downs and no thoughtful person would be tempted to compare it to a Ponzi arrangement. However, since population demographics tend to rise and fall, the balance in pay-as-you-go systems tends to rise and fall as well. During periods when more new participants are entering the system than are receiving benefits there tends to be a surplus in funding (as in the early years of Social Security). During periods when beneficiaries are growing faster than new entrants (as will happen when the baby boomers retire), there tends to be a deficit. This vulnerability to demographic ups and downs is one of the problems with pay-as-you-go financing. But this problem has nothing to do with Ponzi schemes, or any other fraudulent form of financing, it is simply the nature of pay-as-you-go systems.
My bowls are fine, thank you, I don't require bran.
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly
ROTFLOL
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly
It's a presidents duty to ignore the human failings of the supreme court and uphold the constitution and rule of law, as they swore in their oath of office. Jackson upheld his oath of office. FDR did not because he was a statist progressive communist, like Lincoln, Woodrow Wilson, Clinton, Bush(x2), and Obama. The whole later bunch went along with SCOTUS rulings that violated the constitution. It's been a very long time since we had a law abiding president.
Obama's watch stopped on 24 May 2008, but he's been too busy smoking crack to notice.
Jackson ignored his duty to enforce a High Court decision is very clear in our system of government. The U.S. Constitution has three branches of government sharing power to create checks and balances in the system. Jackson did what he did not so much because he was just in ignoring his constitutional duty he swore an oath to preform; he did it because of the greed and racism of those lobbying him to do so. There was not a thing that was law abiding in his action any more then the graft and greed that those agents contracting to provide food and medicine to Native Americans forced onto small reservations were guilty of was right or legal. This application of Apartheid that was an inspiration for concentration camps in South Africa during the Boer War in South Africa or those of Nazi Germany in WW II was very unjust as well and this action of Jackson has put blood on his hands for many decades after his presidency. Manifest Destiny and the Papal Bull called the Doctrine of Discovery that were much the basis of the Trail of Tears was evil and responsible for many deaths and acts of genocide after the Indigenous People of North America were largely rubbed out helped kill many people for generations in other parts of the world. What Jckson did was predicated on greed and hate and helped empower and create much death and suffering in the world. There was nothing good or just about this violation of his oath of office to uphold the U.S. Constitutuion.
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestThe baby boomers are retiring, swelling the number of beneficiaries in numbers the system never could sustain. This is the type of thing that happens in a Ponzi-like system.
#150. To: lucysmom (#148)
That is true up until 1975; since then the ratio has been pretty darn stable, ranging between 3.2 and 3.4. In 2009 the ratio dropped to 3, and was 2.9 in 2010.
#151. To: lucysmom (#149)
Except that an adjustment in the amount collected was made during the Reagan administration to compensate for the dreaded baby boomer retirement.
#152. To: A K A Stone (#151)
#153. To: Ferret Mike (#152)
#154. To: A K A Stone (#153)
"I know they should be with him." lol
#155. To: lucysmom (#148)
That is true up until 1975; since then the ratio has been pretty darn stable, ranging between 3.2 and 3.4. In 2009 the ratio dropped to 3, and was 2.9 in 2010.
The average monthly Social Security benefit for a retired worker was about $1,177 at the beginning of 2011. This amount changes monthly based upon the total amount of all benefits paid and the total number of people receiving benefits.
#156. To: lucysmom (#149)
Except that an adjustment in the amount collected was made during the Reagan administration to compensate for the dreaded baby boomer retirement.
#157. To: Ferret Mike (#154)
#158. To: A K A Stone (#150)
You can't rightfully say...
#159. To: A K A Stone (#157)
(Edited)
#160. To: lucysmom (#158)
#161. To: A K A Stone (#151)
Baby boomers who have publicly stated their support for abortion shouldn't get any Social Security.
#162. To: Ferret Mike (#159)
#163. To: A K A Stone (#160)
If it does, and it does your number is skewed and not true. You can't count people who only receive tax dollars and pay taxes that way. They aren't adding anything new to the system.
#164. To: lucysmom (#163)
They participate in the flow of money and thus add to economic activity that takes place within our borders.
#165. To: A K A Stone (#162)
You say you are pro life but you vote for Obama the man who champions baby murder.
#166. To: lucysmom (#163)
They participate in the flow of money and thus add to economic activity
#167. To: A K A Stone (#162)
"Your words are hollow."
#168. To: lucysmom (#165)
Your position is more akin to exposing a new-born baby to the elements.
#169. To: Ferret Mike (#167)
For example; being against Capital Punishment turns no murderer loose.
#170. To: lucysmom (#165)
"Your position is more akin to exposing a new-born baby to the elements."
#171. To: A K A Stone (#164)
So you can't say that it is 3 taxpayers for social security recipient. Because all of the money they put in came origianlly from someone with a "real" job.
#172. To: Ferret Mike (#170)
#173. To: lucysmom (#171)
#174. To: Capitalist Eric, NewsJunky, jwpegler, lucysmom, A K A Stone (#155)
(Edited)
#175. To: A K A Stone (#169)
(Edited)
Examples of wrongful convictions: Arizona: Ray Krone, released in 2002 • Spent 10 years in prison in Arizona, including time on death row, for a murder he did not commit. He was the 100th person to be released from death row since 1973. DNA testing proved his innocence.
#176. To: Ferret Mike (#175)
Our system of justice which is predicated on the notin that one is innocent until proven guilty beyond a resonable doubt compromised by a cruel and unusual punishment that cannot be reversed should an innocent woman or man be executed and then be revealed to actually have been innocent.
#177. To: nolu chan (#174)
#178. To: A K A Stone (#176)
#179. To: Ferret Mike (#178)
Roe v. Wade is the law of the land.
#180. To: A K A Stone (#179)
(Edited)
#181. To: Ferret Mike (#180)
As for my view on abortion, I have consistently made it clear for a great many years what it is,
#182. To: A K A Stone (#181)
(Edited)
#183. To: Ferret Mike, A K A Stone, *Liberal Rehab Staff* (#178)
Roe v. Wade is the law of the land
President Andrew Jackson, who had the executive responsibility of enforcement of the laws, stated, "John Marshall has made his decision; let him enforce it now if he can."
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#184. To: hondo68 (#183)
(Edited)
#185. To: nolu chan (#144)
#186. To: A K A Stone (#173)
Your bran doesn't work correctly.
#187. To: A K A Stone (#173)
#188. To: Ferret Mike, A K A Stone (#184)
the system has human failings
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#189. To: hondo68 (#188)
(Edited)
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