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Title: Ron Paul is right. Military adventurism is a luxury we can no longer afford
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URL Source: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/j ... uxury-we-can-no-longer-afford/
Published: Sep 9, 2011
Author: James Delingpole
Post Date: 2011-09-09 11:53:00 by Capitalist Eric
Keywords: None
Views: 18963
Comments: 44
Ron Paul has got himself into trouble over his suggestion that if the US military stopped air con for its troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, it could save the treasury a whopping $20 billion a year. He remarked in the latest Republican presidential candidate debate in the Ronald Reagan Library: It's unlikely to endear him to the rump of US right: there are an awful lot of conservative apple pie moms out there whose boys (and girls) are proudly serving right now in sweaty, lethal hell holes where dysentery is a way of life. But Congressman Paul has never held back from telling it like it is and while his suggestion may be insensitive and tasteless, the broader point he is making is absolutely spot on. Foreign military adventures are a luxury the free West can no longer afford. To put Paul's remarks into perspective, consider these shocking figures from Mark Steyn's terminally bleak new masterpiece After America. If today's abnormally low interest rates return to their 1990 to 2010 average of 5.7 per cent, then America's debt service projections for 2015 (that's less than four years away, by the way) would increase from $290 billion to $847 billion. Steyn notes: "China would be in a position to quadruple its military budget and stick US taxpayers with the bill." We can all come up with plenty of good reasons as to why the world is a healthier, happier, safer place when America (and its allies in the free West) are out there spreading democracy, keeping peace, defending freedom and so on. Unfortunately, we are moving out of the Age of Ought (as in "We ought to do this because it's the right thing to do") into the Age of Can't (as in "Sorry, but we can't ruddy afford it any more."). This is why I find myself so spectacularly uninterested in the news coming out about our glorious "victory" in Libya. That David Cameron should be preening himself about this massively wasteful, outmoded exercise in gratuitous power projection, let alone considering it to be the kind of exercise we might try again sometime soon, shows just how terrifyingly out of touch with reality the man is. Perhaps this is what happens to all politicians when they enter the bubble. They're capable of making all the right noises on the campaign trail – as Rick Perry did at the same debate when he bravely and rightly described the welfare system as a "Ponzi" scheme – but as soon as they gain office, they forget all their promises (Cameron's "Bonfire of the Quangos", anyone?) and carry on increasing government spending and borrowing like there's no tomorrow. Ron Paul is one of the few exceptions. He's not another politician. He doesn't care whom he offends. His principles are adamantine. If things are going to get as bad as I think they're going to get, we need to start taking Ron Paul and his ideas much, much more seriously.
Ron Paul. Is he "The One"? I was astonished! We are spending twenty billion dollars on air conditioning for our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. I would take all that away, use ten billion to pay down the debt, and use the other ten toward FEMA and any other agency that we really need. And if you took that air conditioning away, those troops would come home very quickly, and I’d be happy with that.
In 2010 the US spent about $663 billion on its military; China about $78 billion. How is it financing this massive expenditure? By borrowing money, mainly from China. Within a decade the US will be spending more of the federal budget on interest payments than it does on its armed services.
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#1. To: Capitalist Eric (#0)
He does make some great points, routinely. The problem however, is he then goes off on a kook rant, as he's done in the two debates.
Proxy IP's are amusing.....lmao
Air heads attract airheads !
If you ... don't use exclamation points --- you should't be typeing ! Commas - semicolons are for girlie boys !
I think those folks over in Afghanistan guarding the poppy cash crop for the international gangsters would be even more proud to be home. I guess I think that because Paul gets more in donations from military personnel than all the other GOP political slugs combined.
Better know as speaking truth to power. Which truths did you find most painful?
Obama's watch stopped on 24 May 2008, but he's been too busy smoking crack to notice.
he then goes off on a kook rant, as he's done in the two debates Better know as speaking truth to power. Which truths did you find most painful? Painful? No pain here as a result of his rants, hondo68. Sorry to disappoint.
Proxy IP's are amusing.....lmao
What do you object to in his remarks, or are you just throwing the k00k spin bomb for fun?
Obama's watch stopped on 24 May 2008, but he's been too busy smoking crack to notice.
Ron paul needs a pan of water soaked dog s**t taped to his face ! roasted over a hog pit !
If you ... don't use exclamation points --- you should't be typeing ! Commas - semicolons are for girlie boys !
Object? Nope, sorry, not accurate either. As I've noted on other threads since the debate, Ron Paul makes some great points. The problem is he then goes kook theory, and then those good points (audit the Fed, get out of Iraq and Afghanistan now) get blown off, even though they are 100% on the money. Great example of his kook theory's wiping out his good points is the comment about his being against a border fence because it could be used 'to keep us in'. Riiight, cause in Europe during the Cold War, EVERYBODY was hoping the wall heading EAST rotflmao.
Proxy IP's are amusing.....lmao
Riiight, cause in Europe during the Cold War, EVERYBODY was hoping the wall heading EAST rotflmao. Welcome to Boofer Logic 101, hondo...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
You know, I first thought that was a little silly myself, when I first heard it several years ago, until I saw a picture of the border fence and saw that the spikes used to prevent climbing over are pointed toward the US and an old fellow I know who has since died told me that when the socialist utopia here dies, which is inevitable, the self appointed elite socialist administrators do not want 20 million worker/slaves heading back to Mexico before they could be rounded up and put into work camps. Then I thought, well that has happened in the past when socialist empires came close to collapse.
(laughing) Right. The most heavily armed population in world history is going to be held 'in' so they can't escape to wonderful....Mexico? Canada, perhaps? Ooookay.
Proxy IP's are amusing.....lmao
Oh, really? Have you paid much attention to what the US government is doing to ex-pats? Currency controls? Foreign banking controls? Have you bothered to pay attention to how the government is actively preventing people from taking the money THEY have earned out of the country? To be blunt, they're putting the pieces into place, to make it so that the ONLY way you can leave, is penniless... The Congressional bill H.R.2847 - HIRE Act ( TEXT HERE) was signed into law 3/17/2010. As Zerohedge reported, Let's parse through the just passed law, which has been mentioned by exactly zero mainstream media outlets. Here is the default new state of capital outflows: (a) IN GENERAL.—The Internal Revenue Code of 1986 is amended by inserting after chapter 3 the following new chapter: ‘‘CHAPTER 4—TAXES TO ENFORCE REPORTING ON CERTAIN FOREIGN ACCOUNTS ‘‘Sec. 1471. Withholdable payments to foreign financial institutions. ‘‘Sec. 1472. Withholdable payments to other foreign entities. ‘‘Sec. 1473. Definitions. ‘‘Sec. 1474. Special rules. ‘‘SEC. 1471. WITHHOLDABLE PAYMENTS TO FOREIGN FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS. ‘‘(a) IN GENERAL.—In the case of any withholdable payment to a foreign financial institution which does not meet the requirements of subsection (b), the withholding agent with respect to such payment shall deduct and withhold from such payment a tax equal to 30 percent of the amount of such payment. Clarifying who this law applies to: ‘‘(C) in the case of any United States account maintained by such institution, to report on an annual basis the information described in subsection (c) with respect to such account, ‘‘(D) to deduct and withhold a tax equal to 30 percent of— ‘‘(i) any passthru payment which is made by such institution to a recalcitrant account holder or another foreign financial institution which does not meet the requirements of this subsection, and ‘‘(ii) in the case of any passthru payment which is made by such institution to a foreign financial institution which has in effect an election under paragraph (3) with respect to such payment, so much of such payment as is allocable to accounts held by recalcitrant account holders or foreign financial institutions which do not meet the requirements of this subsection. What happens if this brand new law impinges and/or is in blatant contradiction with existing foreign laws? ‘‘(F) in any case in which any foreign law would (but for a waiver described in clause (i)) prevent the reporting of any information referred to in this subsection or subsection (c) with respect to any United States account maintained by such institution— ‘‘(i) to attempt to obtain a valid and effective waiver of such law from each holder of such account, and ‘‘(ii) if a waiver described in clause (i) is not obtained from each such holder within a reasonable period of time, to close such account. Not only are capital flows now to be overseen and controlled by the government and the IRS, but holders of foreign accounts can kiss any semblance of privacy goodbye: ‘‘(c) INFORMATION REQUIRED TO BE REPORTED ON UNITED STATES ACCOUNTS.— ‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—The agreement described in subsection (b) shall require the foreign financial institution to report the following with respect to each United States account maintained by such institution: ‘‘(A) The name, address, and TIN of each account holder which is a specified United States person and, in the case of any account holder which is a United States owned foreign entity, the name, address, and TIN of each substantial United States owner of such entity. ‘‘(B) The account number. ‘‘(C) The account balance or value (determined at such time and in such manner as the Secretary may provide). ‘‘(D) Except to the extent provided by the Secretary, the gross receipts and gross withdrawals or payments from the account (determined for such period and in such manner as the Secretary may provide). The only exemption to the rule? If you hold the meager sum of $50,000 or less in foreign accounts. ‘‘(B) EXCEPTION FOR CERTAIN ACCOUNTS HELD BY INDIVIDUALS.—Unless the foreign financial institution elects to not have this subparagraph apply, such term shall not include any depository account maintained by such financial institution if— ‘‘(i) each holder of such account is a natural person,and ‘‘(ii) with respect to each holder of such account, the aggregate value of all depository accounts held (in whole or in part) by such holder and maintained by the same financial institution which maintains such account does not exceed $50,000. And, while we are on the topic of definitions, here is how "financial account" is defined by the US: ‘‘(2) FINANCIAL ACCOUNT.—Except as otherwise provided by the Secretary, the term ‘financial account’ means, with respect to any financial institution— ‘‘(A) any depository account maintained by such financial institution, ‘‘(B) any custodial account maintained by such financial institution, and ‘‘(C) any equity or debt interest in such financial institution (other than interests which are regularly traded on an established securities market). Any equity or debt interest which constitutes a financial account under subparagraph (C) with respect to any financial institution shall be treated for purposes of this section as maintained by such financial institution. In case you find you do not like to be subject to capital controls, you are now deemed a "Recalcitrant Account Holder." ‘‘(6) RECALCITRANT ACCOUNT HOLDER.—The term ‘recalcitrant account holder’ means any account holder which— ‘‘(A) fails to comply with reasonable requests for the information referred to in subsection (b)(1)(A) or (c)(1)(A), or ‘‘(B) fails to provide a waiver described in subsection (b)(1)(F) upon request. But guess what - if you are a foreign Central Bank, or if the Secretary determined that you are "a low risk for tax evasion" (unlike the Secretary himself) you still can do whatever the hell you want: ‘‘(f) EXCEPTION FOR CERTAIN PAYMENTS.—Subsection (a) shall not apply to any payment to the extent that the beneficial owner of such payment is— ‘‘(1) any foreign government, any political subdivision of a foreign government, or any wholly owned agency or instrumentality of any one or more of the foregoing, ‘‘(2) any international organization or any wholly owned agency or instrumentality thereof, ‘‘(3) any foreign central bank of issue, or ‘‘(4) any other class of persons identified by the Secretary for purposes of this subsection as posing a low risk of tax evasion. One thing we are confused about is whether this law is a preamble, or already incorporates, the flow of non-cash assets, such as commodities, and, thus, gold. If an account transfers, via physical or paper delivery, gold from a domestic account to a foreign one, we are not sure if the language deems this a 30% taxable transaction, although preliminary discussions with lawyers indicates this is likely the case. And so the noose on capital mobility tightens, as very soon the only option US citizens have when it comes to investing their money, will be in government mandated retirement annuities, which will likely be the next step in the capital control escalation, which will culminate with every single free dollar required to be reinvested into the US, likely in the form of purchasing US Treasury emissions such as Treasuries, TIPS and other worthless pieces of paper. Congratulations bankrupt America - you are now one step closer to a thoroughly non-free market. To:Skippy, toe-jam, old man Fred Alzheimers Mertz, _jim, loonymom/ming, e-type-jackoff, goober56, Wrek, calcon, dummy DwarF, continental op, Biff, gobsheit and meguro From: Capitalist Eric Message: You're SOCIALIST morons. ESAD. I don't see that as having anything to do with the laughable concept of 'keeping us in' CE. Sorry....its like claiming the Berlin Wall was designed to keep people OUT.
Proxy IP's are amusing.....lmao
Right! You and all your friends are going to the armed defense of illegal immigrants heading back to Mexico. Now that is something to laugh about.
You have a very static view of the world. Sure, Paul's comments were a little ridiculous. But, during the height of Nazi power, it would have also been ridiculous to assert that one day a wall would prevent people in one part of Germany from entering another part of Germany. Things change. Prosperous countries become insolvent (look at the PIIGS in Europe). Empires overstretch themselves and die (look at Egypt, Greece, Rome, Great Britain, the Aztecs, many, many others...). Free people's become enslaved (too many examples to site). Things change. Things always change. Your flippant, arrogant, neo-con attitude demonstrates why people don't learn from history. Paul was speaking the truth -- anything that the government does today to help us can and will be used in the future to hurt us. History demonstrates that conclusively.
Right. The most heavily armed population in world history is going to be held 'in' so they can't escape to wonderful....Mexico? Right! You and all your friends are going to the armed defense of illegal immigrants heading back to Mexico. Where you got this from is beyond me.
Proxy IP's are amusing.....lmao
Sorry....its like claiming the Berlin Wall was designed to keep people OUT. There are none so blind, as those who will not see. I found another little article, that boils it down very nicely, HERE. It began in the early 1990's when thousands of rich Americans began to leave America. They did so by renouncing their American citizenship and reestablishing citizenship in low-tax or no-tax countries. They were called tax exiles and as soon as the word got out about the trend the U.S. Congress reacted to try to stop it before the trend spread out of control. Opening an unusually filthy bag of legislative tricks Congress attempting to build a jurisdictional "Berlin Wall" of sanctions against escapees in order to keep them jurisdictional prisoners of America. It is a clever trap of words that makes clear that the U.S. government assumes that they own everyone and everything on the planet and that their jurisdiction includes the known universe. To guarantee perpetual imprisonment of those who were attempting to flee it was necessary to create laws which threatened some sort of punishment for anyone caught escaping. But the punishment had to be creative, for how can you punish someone after they've gone away and taken whatever is worth confiscating with them? Congress realized that while they couldn't keep everyone in a physical prison, they could keep their citizens jurisdictional prisoners of the U.S. judicial system by creating law's which made jurisdictional escape from America a crime punishable in perpetuity - - even if someone has changed citizenship. Hence was born the Berlin Wall of expatriate sanctions directed against fleeing Americans. You don't get shot going over this wall, it's much more subtle than that. Congress began its gambit in 1996 by imposing a ten-year tax on expatriated Americans. Get this, they claimed that even if you renounced your citizenship and were no longer a citizen, they would still tax you for another ten years regardless of your citizenship or your residency. What a concept! Not even the Russian slave masters of the former Soviet Union were that creative. What a work of brilliance! It amounts to saying, "Even if you escape our prison, we still own you. You are to report in periodically and give us all your belongings." Their justification for their idiocy is based on the assumption that jurisdiction of the United States corresponds to that of the entire world, and if you live in the world you belong to the U.S. government forever regardless of your wishes. Governments don't own their people unless the people are slaves. Governments belong to the people within their jurisdiction, or they are not governments they are slave states. The proper function of government is to improve the life of individuals by increasing their freedom. If there is no increase in freedom then there is no improvement to a citizen's life. No net improvement in the quality of a citizen's life means that a government has failed in its duties. If there is sufficient decrease in the level of freedom people leave. This is not surprising nor is it new news, when governments fail in their duties people leave, just as they have done throughout history. Why live in China or Burma if they are slave states? If you can escape you do. If you cannot leave a country in which you no longer care to live, then you are a prisoner. If they use your property to keep you a prisoner how does that differ from saying you don't own your property? If the government claims that the property belonging to that individual is the property of the government then there are no property rights. Congress is in effect telling the American people that they cannot take their property when they leave, nor the fruit of their labor, nor the fruit of their future labor. It sounds suspiciously like they saying that your brain belongs to them. If this legislature proved to be effective it would mean that if your body happened to escape they would still own your brain. Jurisdictional prison - a virtual Berlin Wall for a virtual age. If this was not insult enough, Congress added a coup de grace meant to degrade our departure by stating that expatriates who left for tax-motivated reasons could never visit the U.S. again. It's sort of like being hit with a farewell gob of spit that implies those who leave are traitors. How about if the escapee is a decorated Viet Nam war veteran? Is he still a traitor or are the traitors in Congress? How about if he is someone whose son was shot and wounded in his high school gym, or whose daughter was raped coming home from choir practice? Or how about someone who is disgusted with the filth shown on American television and in the movie theaters? What does this legislation mean to those who leave for moral reasons? What about those who leave because they don't want to live in a country with metal detectors in schools, with white racist dragging a black from the back of a truck until he is broken into pieces, with black racists hanging whites in downtown Los Angeles, with anti-Jewish fanatics shooting children in nurseries, with teenage kids machine gunning their classmates? Will those that leave be required to take some kind of test to show they are moral expatriates and not tax expatriates? What kind of test? If I find the actions of Congress in this matter repugnant and immoral, and I do, would that qualify me as a moral expatriate? Despite these congressional efforts to create a jurisdictional prison, leaving America hasn't lost its popularity. Far from it. Most of those leaving are simply leaving without saying good-bye - (see IRS Loses Bid To Track Overseas Tax-Dodgers in a previous issue of this magazine. - Click Here -) Tens of thousands of Americans have left and the US government has no way to track them. However some are still going to the trouble of renouncing despite the straw watchdog Congress created. Several thousand people have turned in their citizenship or green cards within the past few years, and over half of them did so after Congress tried to create it's jurisdictional prison. The law that Congress created states that if the purpose of avoiding taxes is among our principal motives for renouncing, then they can collect estate taxes and income taxes on U.S. earnings and investment income for the next ten years. They don't have to prove we were motivated by tax purposes. If our net worth is over $500,000 or our income tax bill is over $100,000, they presume our motives are tax related. Libya and the United States are among the small number of nations brutal enough to tax their citizens on all income worldwide to begin with. Now Congress would like to extend their worldwide taxation clause to include a taxation in perpetuity clause. Those scientists who claim that a perpetual motion machine is an impossibility should turn to the U.S. Congress for answers. How does this effect those who aren't worth a half a million and don't have $100,000 tax obligations? As stated elsewhere on this website most Americans have decided to slip quietly away without saying good-bye. Most often when an expatriate goes abroad they are effectively off of the radar. Those we've talked to simply restart their lives abroad, get a second passport and drop out of the American system. Those that are intent on returning should read the article Expat Tax - U.S. Taxation of American's Living Abroad in this issue. Most expatriates I've talked to have lowered their taxes to zero. As mentioned in the book Escape From America the structuring of one's expatriate tax obligations can be done in such a way as to reduce them to zero in most cases. If you can do this for ten years and not spend more than 30 days in the USA during that period you can then renounce without presumption of guilt. If you hold dual citizenship from birth you can return to the other country without presumption of guilt. If you or one of your parents was born abroad you can become a citizen of that country without presumption of guilt and so on. For those who do feel the necessity to renounce, there are enough loopholes to prevent the virtual prison legislation from being much more than a scare tactic. Everyone who has legally challenged the presumption of guilt clause has won. The Immigration & Naturalization Service so far has not barred anyone from returning to the U.S. after renouncing. It is clear that the laws that Congress wrote were written to prevent a massive exodus not to go after those who have the courage to renounce. It is a brutal and ugly piece of legislation and it is a disgrace to the U.S. Congress. If people no longer want to live in a country, any country, they should be allowed to leave with their possessions. That Congress should try to create a virtual prison is clear sign to us of what America is now becoming. It is an undeclared war zone where most elderly people have to lock themselves inside their homes in order to feel safe. Forty million Americans are murdered, maimed, raped, mugged, or robbed every year. Tens of millions of Americans live in an American prison. America has the highest prison population in the world. It is one of the most violent countries on earth. People are tired of paying so high a rate of taxes into a system that is spiraling downhill - a system that does little to increase their freedom - and into a society that is becoming morally bankrupt and vehemently wants to pretend that it is not. Could the doors suddenly slam shut trapping millions of American's inside, just as people were trapped inside the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany? It's a question worthy of speculation. When the ether wears off and more and more American's discover they've been hoodwinked there could be a massive exodus. What Congress will do to stop them is open to conjecture. Since this article was written the US Government has made 'agreements' with numerous foreign nations regarding Americans seeking residency in those nations. The US Government has 'obligated' many nations to force those Americans seeking residency to send an Interpol generated letter to the FBI stating that they are seeking residency in a foreign nation. Several readers have written in stating that they've been obligated to report to the FBI that they were seeking residency in a foreign nation. We asked officials of several nations why they were agreeing to this invasion into to their private affairs. One official summed it up by saying, "...we are more or less obligated to comply, even though it is not on our law books, we have to do what the US Government requests." ...now you know. You have to do what the US Government requests wherever you are, even though the President of the USA has a 91 IQ and has committed crimes against humanity. What an irony - - it would be funny if it wasn't so tragic.
To:Skippy, toe-jam, old man Fred Alzheimers Mertz, _jim, loonymom/ming, e-type-jackoff, goober56, Wrek, calcon, dummy DwarF, continental op, Biff, gobsheit and meguro From: Capitalist Eric Message: You're SOCIALIST morons. ESAD. somebody pissed in your wheaties today, huh? Whatever. Sorry, I don't see anyone trying to keep us 'in' using a border fence. And if you don't know the differences between today in America, and Germany in the 20's and 30's, my advice is put down the bong.
Proxy IP's are amusing.....lmao
I'm familiar with the legislation being referenced here CE. Its not stopping Steve Wynn, btw.
Proxy IP's are amusing.....lmao
Today. What about 50 years from now? Barbwire and machine guns are a symbol. A very bad symbol. That's what Paul was correctly pointing out.
They are your words. What is it about what you wrote that you do not understand?
Barbwire and machine guns are a symbol. A very bad symbol. Who has suggested barb wire and machine guns? I mean in the House or Senate, btw. Nobody. As for 50 years from now....we haven't been able to secure the border in the last 30, remember?
Proxy IP's are amusing.....lmao
Ah, no where did I say this, or even remotely suggest it.
Proxy IP's are amusing.....lmao
It was an image that Ron Paul invoked to tie people to recent history. It was a good image that was completely lost on you.
What are you saying? Are you saying you believe the illegal immigrant population is the most heavily armed in history and could not be kept here as worker/slaves by government decree?
Who has suggested barb wire and machine guns? It was an image that Ron Paul invoked to tie people to recent history. It was a good image that was completely lost on you. Oh good lord, bullshit. Nobody has ever suggested it seriously. And sorry, the image 'wasn't lost on me' it had the same affect most of Paul's schtick has on the vast majority, it cause me to just shake my head. But enough about Ron Paul. He's not a factor in the election, just as he wasn't a factor in the other POTUS vanity runs he made.
Proxy IP's are amusing.....lmao
Go back and reread it slowly, or ask somebody to read it too you.
Proxy IP's are amusing.....lmao
There is something more important than the next election -- learning from history. Sadly, learning from history is something that you seem incapable of doing.
Sadly, learning from history is something that you seem incapable of doing. Not when people work for you and have mortgages that require monthly payments. Something I know from walking through the door here Monday to Friday. I'm worried about the next 48 months, JW. History will have to wait.
Proxy IP's are amusing.....lmao
LOL! Guess you can not or will not explain what you meant. You probably did not understand who I was saying would be kept in or you wanted to cloud the issue.
But we are in this situation because Bush, Obama and their minions didn't understand that big government doesn't work. Bush was a big spending disaster -- Medicare drugs, No Child Left Behind, bridges to nowhere, TARP... Obama has somehow managed to be worse -- "stimulus", Obamacare, EPA gone wild... So just when are we going to learn from history? When???
Who should we focus on then, in a Ron Paul thread?
Oh, knock yourself out. Your business, I'm just bored with it. His fans are fanatical, and at least they engage in the process. But this is an argument about theory, and hypotheticals. I'm more concerned about economic issues, and getting this disaster out of the Whitehouse. Ron Paul isn't a factor in these things, JMHO.
Proxy IP's are amusing.....lmao
Proxy IP's are amusing.....lmao
Getting your ass kicked by your "own" Boofer... HILARIOUS...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
LOL!! You go back and read #10 and then explain what message your #11 was intended to convey.
Proxy IP's are amusing.....lmao
Welcome to the Vortex o' Boofer...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
LMAO! That's really childish.
Barbed wire is essential to keep diseased Mexican cattle out. There are MP5 style automatic weapons here, in special BP units and assorted alphabet agencies. The fence does keep you in, in the sense that it blocks retreat to the south and also seeking cover and concealment in that direction. Those who patrol the border often have the feeling of being trapped between the bad guys in the US and the fence, with more bad guys on the other side. West of here where there's a double fence is worse, since BP is trapped in a narrow corridor between two fences. Come on down here and get shot at, and it'll become clear how you can become trapped by the border fence.
Obama's watch stopped on 24 May 2008, but he's been too busy smoking crack to notice.
I mean in the House or Senate, btw. Here is what was passed as law regarding fences. I do not see where it specifies barbed ware. Secure Fence Act of 2006 - Public Law 109-367
Ron Paul on border security and immigration, circa 2008 http://www.ronpaul.com/on-the-issues/border-security/ A nation without borders is no nation at all. After decades of misguided policies America has now become a free-for-all. Our leaders betrayed the middle class which is forced to compete with welfare-receiving illegal immigrants who will work for almost anything, just because the standards in their home countries are even lower. If these policies are not reversed, the future is grim. A poor, dependent and divided population is much easier to rule than a nation of self-confident individuals who can make a living on their own and who share the traditions and values that this country was founded upon. Ron Paul’s six point plan puts a stop to illegal immigration: The facts on the ground are being created right now. Every day that passes makes it more difficult to reverse the damage that has already been done.
Barbed wire has been a part of border security since at least the 1930's when the WPA put up a barbed wire fence along the border. There are still round metal posts from that era left on the border. They even cemented posts to large rock formations. AFAIK it wasn't intended to be a people barrier, but to keep diseased Mexican cattle out of the US. It's often referred to as the AG (agriculture) fence.
Obama's watch stopped on 24 May 2008, but he's been too busy smoking crack to notice.
(laughing) You say so...
Proxy IP's are amusing.....lmao
#2. To: Capitalist Eric (#0)
#3. To: Capitalist Eric (#0)
It's unlikely to endear him to the rump of US right: there are an awful lot of conservative apple pie moms out there whose boys (and girls) are proudly serving right now in sweaty, lethal hell holes where dysentery is a way of life.
#4. To: Badeye, *Ron Paul for President* (#1)
(Edited)
he then goes off on a kook rant, as he's done in the two debates
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#5. To: hondo68 (#4)
#6. To: Badeye (#5)
Painful?
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#7. To: hondo68 (#6)
#8. To: hondo68 (#6)
What do you object to in his remarks
#9. To: Badeye, hondo68 (#8)
Great example of his kook theory's wiping out his good points is the comment about his being against a border fence because it could be used 'to keep us in'.
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#10. To: Badeye, hondo68 (#8)
Great example of his kook theory's wiping out his good points is the comment about his being against a border fence because it could be used 'to keep us in'.
#11. To: eskimo (#10)
#12. To: Badeye (#8)
Great example of his kook theory's wiping out his good points is the comment about his being against a border fence because it could be used 'to keep us in'.
It couldn't have happened to a nicer country. On March 18, with very little pomp and circumstance, president Obama passed the most recent stimulus act, the $17.5 billion Hiring Incentives to Restore Employment Act (H.R. 2487), brilliantly goalseeked by the administration's millionaire cronies to abbreviate as HIRE. As it was merely the latest in an endless stream of acts destined to expand the government payroll to infinity, nobody cared about it, or actually read it. Because if anyone had read it, the act would have been known as the Capital Controls Act, as one of the lesser, but infinitely more important provisions on page 27, known as Offset Provisions - Subtitle A— Foreign Account Tax Compliance, institutes just that. In brief, the Provision requires that foreign banks not only withhold 30% of all outgoing capital flows (likely remitting the collection promptly back to the US Treasury) but also disclose the full details of non-exempt account-holders to the US and the IRS. And should this provision be deemed illegal by a given foreign nation's domestic laws (think Switzerland), well the foreign financial institution is required to close the account. It's the law. If you thought you could move your capital to the non-sequestration safety of non-US financial institutions, sorry you lose - the law now says so. Capital Controls are now here and are now fully enforced by the law.
#13. To: Capitalist Eric (#12)
#14. To: Badeye (#11)
Right. The most heavily armed population in world history is going to be held 'in' so they can't escape to wonderful....Mexico?
#15. To: Badeye (#11)
(Edited)
Right. The most heavily armed population in world history is going to be held 'in' so they can't escape to wonderful....Mexico?
Anything that the government does today to help us can and will be used in the future to hurt us -- jwpegler
#16. To: eskimo (#14)
#17. To: Badeye (#13)
(Edited)
I don't see that as having anything to do with the laughable concept of 'keeping us in' CE.
Trapped in America
Jurisdictional Prison - A Virtual Berlin Wall for a Virtual Age
#18. To: jwpegler (#15)
Your flippant, arrogant, neo-con attitude demonstrates why people don't learn from history.
#19. To: Capitalist Eric (#17)
#20. To: Badeye (#18)
Sorry, I don't see anyone trying to keep us 'in' using a border fence.
Anything that the government does today to help us can and will be used in the future to hurt us -- jwpegler
#21. To: Badeye (#16)
Where you got this from is beyond me.
#22. To: jwpegler (#20)
Today. What about 50 years from now?
#23. To: eskimo (#21)
You and all your friends are going to the armed defense of illegal immigrants heading back to Mexico.
#24. To: Badeye (#22)
(Edited)
Who has suggested barb wire and machine guns?
Anything that the government does today to help us can and will be used in the future to hurt us -- jwpegler
#25. To: Badeye (#23)
Ah, no where did I say this, or even remotely suggest it.
#26. To: jwpegler (#24)
#27. To: eskimo (#25)
Ah, no where did I say this, or even remotely suggest it.
#28. To: Badeye (#26)
(Edited)
Anything that the government does today to help us can and will be used in the future to hurt us -- jwpegler
#29. To: jwpegler (#28)
There is something more important than the next election -- learning from history.
#30. To: Badeye (#27)
Go back and reread it slowly, or ask somebody to read it too you.
#31. To: Badeye (#29)
Anything that the government does today to help us can and will be used in the future to hurt us -- jwpegler
#32. To: Badeye (#26)
But enough about Ron Paul. He's not a factor in the election
#33. To: We The People (#32)
#34. To: eskimo (#30)
Go back and reread it slowly, or ask somebody to read it too you.
#35. To: Badeye (#34)
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#36. To: Badeye (#34)
#37. To: eskimo (#36)
Go back and reread it slowly, or ask somebody to read it too you
#38. To: eskimo (#36)
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#39. To: Badeye (#37)
#40. To: Badeye (#22)
Who has suggested barb wire and machine guns?
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#41. To: Badeye, jwpegler (#22)
(Edited)
Who has suggested barb wire and machine guns?
#42. To: All (#41)
Border Security
#43. To: nolu chan (#41)
I do not see where it specifies barbed ware.
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#44. To: hondo68 (#40)
The fence does keep you in
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