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Title: Nouriel 'Dr. Doom' Roubini: ‘Karl Marx Was Right’
Source:
International Business Times
URL Source: http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/197 ... -crisis-debt-crisis-europe.htm
Published: Aug 13, 2011
Author: Joseph Lazzaro
Post Date: 2011-08-28 11:38:18 by lucysmom
Keywords: None
Views: 32809
Comments: 59
Companies, Roubini said, are motivated to minimize costs, to save and stockpile cash, but this leads to less money in the hands of employees, which means they have less money to spend and flow back to companies. Now, in the current financial crisis, consumers, in addition to having less money to spend due to the above, are also motivated to minimize costs, to save and stockpile cash, magnifying the effect of less money flowing back to companies. "Karl Marx had it right," Roubini said in an interview with wsj.com. "At some point capitalism can self-destroy itself. That's because you can not keep on shifting income from labor to capital without not having an excess capacity and a lack of aggregate demand. We thought that markets work. They are not working. What's individually rational ... is a self-destructive process."
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#1. To: Badeye, A K A Stone, hondo68, Fred Mertz, Godwinson, go65, war, no gnu taxes, Skip Intro, ferret mike, jwpegler, brian s, mcgowanjm, Capitalist Eric, mininggold (#0)
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly
Too many on both sides of the ledger being thrifty can destroy the economy. What a great system we have.
Toss in a government policy of austerity and... In 1937, President Franklin D. Roosevelt, despite the fact that the first four years of massive New Deal fiscal stimulus had lowered U.S. unemployment from a staggering 20.6 percent during the Hoover Administration at the start ff the Great Depression, to 9.1 percent, felt pressure from Congressional Republicans, and he -- as current President Barack Obama did with the Tea Party-led House GOP in 2011 -- gave-in to conservatives and cut government spending in 1937. The result? U.S. unemployment started rising again, and hit 12.5% in 1938. Cutting government spending prematurely hurt the U.S. economy in 1937 by reducing demand, and Roubini sees the same pattern playing out today, following austerity measures implemented by the U.S. debt deal act. https://www.commondreams.org/headline/2011/08/14-4
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly
Business people know this and don't just sit on cash. Henry Ford realized that he had to pay his workers enough so that they could afford to buy one of his cars. Then the unions got greedy... and along came VW, Toyota, and Honda. Detroit is now a socialist paradise. The reason that the "markets are not working" and the economy stinks, is a long series of government screw ups, printing funny money, thousands of special interest (globalist) regulations on both business and consumers. D&R politicians take the bribes, and we the people get screwed. It's our own fault for voting for Democrats and Republicans.
Obama's watch stopped on 24 May 2008, but he's been too busy smoking crack to notice.
No government to bribe or screw up in Somalia - how's that working out?
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly
Why don't you move there and send us a report? You seem obsessed with the place.
Obama's watch stopped on 24 May 2008, but he's been too busy smoking crack to notice.
The founders went to a lot of trouble to create the foundations of a government, of the people... for the people, when they could have just done nothing and made the Tea Baggers happy.
Just getting tired of so-called conservatives blaming government for the bad behavior of free marketeers and themselves. It's getting to be an epidemic.
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly
What bullshit on Hondo's part and those on the GOP that keep repeating this. VW, Toyota and Honda are produced in nations so called conservatives would call "socialist" (German and Japan) where there are powerful trade unions. Overall, Germany and Japan's manufacturing sector is doing better than the American one where deregulation and union busting have been the norm for 30 years. So here we have shattered 30 year old Republican conservative assumptions but the GOP hacks are still repeating the dogma. We have American unions at their weakest and low nd behold manufacturing is not rebounding, wages have been lowered over the 30 years and the American workers benefits have been their lowest ever and that has not helped the economy rebound. At what point will the conservative right wing admit their economic philosophy is a failure? That it does not produce the desired end results?
With the economy still in the dumper -- maybe permanently? -- and full-time jobs becoming as scarce as rain during a drought, huge percentages of Americans have had their (misplaced) faith in the American dream shaken, the upper-middle-class consumerist lifestyle is exposed as a mirage for anybody who plays by the rules. Capitalism and the America that embraced it as a way of life is now and forever more a failure. It does me good to know that the generation that voted in Reagan and his ideology will see their America die from that ideology before their very own eyes and knowing they had a hand in its destruction.
Goofy, would you please be so kind as to not spam my account here? I see all the articles, if I want to comment on one, I will. If you have a specific question, I'm glad to respond to it. But I noticed upon my return to today you seem to have a cut paste 'spam' list which you use to ping a bunch of us to. Please stop. Thanks in advance.
Proxy IP's are amusing.....lmao
the senior economic advisor to UBS just penned an article for Bloomberg essentially agreeing with Roubini. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-29/give-marx-a-chance-to-save-the-world-economy-commentary-by-george-magnus.html Folks need to realize that while Roubini and Magnus are saying Marx correctly identified a problem with capitalism, neither are advocating communism as the correct response.
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I see all the articles, if I want to comment on one, I will. If you have a specific question, I'm glad to respond to it. But I noticed upon my return to today you seem to have a cut paste 'spam' list which you use to ping a bunch of us to. Please stop. Thanks in advance. +1.
To:Skippy, toe-jam, old man Fred Alzheimers Mertz, _jim, loonymom/ming, e-type-jackoff, goober56, Wrek, calcon, dummy DwarF, continental op, Biff, gobsheit and meguro From: Capitalist Eric Message: You're SOCIALIST morons. ESAD. Reminds me of mudboy slim spamming everybody with those ridiculous song parody's nobody read.
Proxy IP's are amusing.....lmao
LOL... Yeah, I remember that. (((shaking head in disbelief))) the worst part was, he thought the stuff he was posting was good. LOL.
To:Skippy, toe-jam, old man Fred Alzheimers Mertz, _jim, loonymom/ming, e-type-jackoff, goober56, Wrek, calcon, dummy DwarF, continental op, Biff, gobsheit and meguro From: Capitalist Eric Message: You're SOCIALIST morons. ESAD. companies’ pursuit of profits and productivity would naturally lead them to need fewer and fewer workers, creating an “industrial reserve army” of the poor and unemployed Yes, but only if you look at a single industry at a time. At one time 80% of the country worked on farms. Today, it's less than 4%. Are the other 76% unemployed? No. People found jobs in newer industries like manufacturing. As manufacturing productivity increased, people found jobs in technology. On and on. I'll make the point that I've been making for over a year -- we need to have a system where people like Steve Jobs and Bill Gates can open businesses in their garages and grow them into huge companies with tens of thousands of employees. That system requires an educated populous and really simple rules. What we have to day are functional illiterates and the most convoluted tax and regulatory system on the planet. So, of course the economy is not working. Change government policies and we'll change the economy.
In my experiences the biggest thing keeping folks from starting their own businesses is fear of losing health insurance. Go to a single-payer model and watch people start business after business. I assume you support Kerry's plan to grant citizenship to anyone who comes here and graduates from a 4-year institution? We agree on the tax system.
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Where the hell do you get such absolute drivel goat? You allegedly reference your own experience. Which makes it totally anedotal, and therefore USELESS. Even IF we believe your story in the first place. Which I do not. Yep. I'm calling you a LIAR goat. In fact goat your premise is ABSURD. What's keeping people from starting businesses right now are their DOUBTS as to what STALIN like tyranny YOUR wee failed man child messiah "king" obammy will TRY to shove down AMERICAN'S throats next. YOU libTURD'S have a master goat, but he is NOT AMERICA'S master goat. WE AMERICANS have no "kings". It's you libTURDS that long for the yoke of "kings" to be laid upon all of us. You gibbering libTURD FOOLS. THIS IS ALL YOUR MASTER OBAMMY'S FAULT goat, and it ain't gonna spin.
Spoiled, stupid and ignorant, brain dead phuckwads, libTURD fools, tools, and idiots, are the real sickness; the messiah "king" obammy and his regime are only the symptoms.
No one who has the vision to start a company that could be worth billions one day is going to be stopped by that. Sure, maybe that's a barrier for someone who would like to open their own Amway or Avon "business", but that's not what I'm talking about.
We agree on the tax system. The convolutions exist at the behest of the same people who rail against them.
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly
Perhaps that's true for someone in their twenties, but not for those in touch with their mortality.
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly
Unless they have kids/family.
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People will great vision aren't going to be stopped because they don't want to shell out $400 a month for a catastrophic healthcare plan. PERIOD. I pay $380 a month for such a plan for myself, wife, and three kids. It's not that difficult. You are demonstrating that you don't have any real perspective on entrepreneurs.
Bullshit.
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
You live in a separate reality not shared with most Americans.
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly
You can't even get that for one person any more...nothing close... Standard cat/health starts around $1200 - a month. A long term care policy, which merely supplements cat/health, on one person is about $4K a year now.
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
A friend was paying close to $1,000 a month, just for herself, before Medicare kicked in. He doesn't tell us what his coverage or deductible is. Perhaps he's got one of those plans that are scheduled to be outlawed.
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly
His employer probably picks up the rest. 'Great entrepreneurs' generally have very little time to spend on 'chit chat channels'.
I pay $380 a month for such a plan for myself, wife, and three kids. It's not that difficult. You are demonstrating that you don't have any real perspective on entrepreneurs. While appreciate your concern I have started 3 businesses in the past, but I'm a lot less of a risk taker now that I've got 3 mouths to feed, and if something happens and I can't work, my family could lose our insurance/home/etc. Add the cost of short-term/long-term disability to your calculation as well.
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I did some digging - the average cost of a family health care plan is about $14k a year (not including vision/dental). JW did say he's got a catastrophic plan, so i'm guessing he has a very high deductible. We have that sort of plan at work - $5k personal deductible with max-out-pocket of $10k ($10k/$20k for family). My wife's breast cancer treatments have cost us about $28k so far.
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First off, hope that your wife heals. Secondly, getting it through an employer is one thing...getting it on your own, wioch he implies that he did, is another. I live and work in NYC, I know actors, musicians, carpenters, etc etc etc all self employed who pay out the wazoo for their health insurance.
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
I see that the lazy, retarded nimrods have decided to chime in. Given that they are too stupid and/or lazy to research things themselves on google, I've decided to spend 6.5 minutes doing it for them: Go to http://www.ehealthinsurance.com Type in a Seattle area zip code: Model a 5 person family -- 50+ husband, 30+ wife, 3 underage daughters. Here are a sample of the catastrophic plans that show up: Assurant Catastrophic Plan -- $372.33 Group Health 3500 Catestrophic Plan -- 438.00 Lifewise Copay 7500 -- $456.00 Regence Evolve HSA -- $511.00 Shall I continue??? America has become a nation of the dumb, lazy, and dependent. These people harm us all. Increasingly, my view is that we should just shut down all social welfare programs and put people on cold turkey to shock them out of the stupor that they've put themselves in.
As we've seen in the last three years, the concept of "job security" is an illusion, unless of course you are a government bureaucrat. The only security any of us really have is in the marketability of our skills. I market my skills and the skills of people I employ through my own company.
$10K deductable. Add that to your premium, simpleton. If you put a NY zip code in, the cost is well over $1000 a month. Thus, my statement of "BULLSHIT" stands...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
None of those cover drugs either...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
Fuck you, calling Americans "dumb, lazy, and dependent". Americans work longer hours for less money (per capita) with less benefits than most of those in the industrialized nations. All that hard work and for what? So that you fucking traitors to your own people - who side with their exploiters - can call them dumb and lazy? Fuck you and die, prick. You just claimed you came back from Taiwan - hey, ask your Taiwanese clients how they like socialized medicine - ask if they feel dumb, lazy, and dependent for loving their single payer federal tax payer funded health insurance.
With the economy still in the dumper -- maybe permanently? -- and full-time jobs becoming as scarce as rain during a drought, huge percentages of Americans have had their (misplaced) faith in the American dream shaken, the upper-middle-class consumerist lifestyle is exposed as a mirage for anybody who plays by the rules. Capitalism and the America that embraced it as a way of life is now and forever more a failure. It does me good to know that the generation that voted in Reagan and his ideology will see their America die from that ideology before their very own eyes and knowing they had a hand in its destruction.
gobsheit: Fuck you, calling Americans "dumb, lazy, and dependent". Americans work longer hours for less money (per capita) with less benefits than most of those in the industrialized nations. All that hard work and for what? So that you fucking traitors to your own people - who side with their exploiters - can call them dumb and lazy? jwpegler's comments are spot-on. As the sheeple are taught to rely on the nanny-state for their very survival, they have become lazy, stupid and dependant. Oh, you find that offensive? Guess what, gobsheit... so do we. I'm tired of paying "taxes," which is really "tribute" through coercion to thieves, who (after taking a cut for themselves) give MY money to someone who didn't earn it, and doesn't deserve it. Yes, I find your encouragement of the theft of MY money, and (quite literally) bleeding the ability to take care of MY kids, so that you can give what I worked MY ass off for, to someone sitting on their fat ass, eating cheetos and watching "oprah," or the "Magic Messiah" talk about "hope" and " YOUR philosophical views- disseminated from the parasite leaders (politicians) to society for the last 80+ years, has lead America to become stupid, lethargic and dependant. YOUR philosophical views would naturally lead to a real-life version of "Idiocracy." Oh, I know...... that's what you WANT... I suspect it's more about wanting everyone to be as STUPID, as LAZY, as DEPENDANT as you... ****Psst**** Guess what, gobsheit... The nanny-state government is bankrupt. And whether you like it or not, those that are too STUPID, LAZY or DEPENDANT to get off their fat asses, and fend for themselves, will find themselves DEAD. Just like your STUPID and LAZY ideas. The parasite-class has sucked too much blood from the host; the outcome is now inevitable. Heh.
To:Skippy, toe-jam, old man Fred Alzheimers Mertz, _jim, loonymom/ming, e-type-jackoff, goober56, Wrek, calcon, dummy DwarF, continental op, Biff, gobsheit and meguro From: Capitalist Eric Message: You're SOCIALIST morons. ESAD. You say stuff like this all the time, and constantly praise countries outside the U.S. such as Singapore and Taiwan, all of whom have stronger social safety nets and universal health insurance programs. I'm just saying.....
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The only security any of us really have is in the marketability of our skills. Elegantly stated. Of course, the concept is too adult for the left-leaning posters on this forum... they want a "living wage," "guaranteed" benefits, and life-long employment... and if they can't get it based on their SKILLS, drive and competence, then they'll resort to thuggish tactics via the unions, government laws, etc. Lefties like go56 can't compete, because they aren't hungry enough to try. Easier to steal from others, then work hard. They're mentally defective.
To:Skippy, toe-jam, old man Fred Alzheimers Mertz, _jim, loonymom/ming, e-type-jackoff, goober56, Wrek, calcon, dummy DwarF, continental op, Biff, gobsheit and meguro From: Capitalist Eric Message: You're SOCIALIST morons. ESAD. Eric, These people aren't smart enough to get it. I suspect that most of them are retired government bureaucrats. They spent their entire lives taking orders and shuffling papers. They just don't understand anything else.
They don't have much longer to smarten up... and their failure to do so has a high probability of being fatal for them.
To:Skippy, toe-jam, old man Fred Alzheimers Mertz, _jim, loonymom/ming, e-type-jackoff, goober56, Wrek, calcon, dummy DwarF, continental op, Biff, gobsheit and meguro From: Capitalist Eric Message: You're SOCIALIST morons. ESAD. No, I spend a lot of time in Asia and that's completely wrong. In Asia you are expected to take care of yourself. If you can't, your family is expected to take care of you. If you don't have a family, then what happens to you depends on the country. In Singapore, the government funnels a tiny amount of money through private charities. In the Philippines, the government doesn't do squat for you. You rely on the goodwill of your neighbors. The U.S. government has spent 100 years destroying the entire notion that you are responsible for yourself and that you are also responsible for your family. They have destroyed the entire notion of community. America used to have mutual aid societies that helped members who were in need, including providing inexpensive medical care. The U.S. government at the behest of the AMA put an end to that. That's the problem. The result is a bunch of stupid, fat, lazy, dependent morons who are destroying the country.
Comments (42 - 59) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestWhat's individually rational ... is a self-destructive process.
#2. To: lucysmom (#1)
(Edited)
Now, in the current financial crisis, consumers, in addition to having less money to spend due to the above, are also motivated to minimize costs, to save and stockpile cash, magnifying the effect of less money flowing back to companies.
#3. To: mininggold (#2)
(Edited)
Too many on both sides of the ledger being thrifty can destroy an economy. What a great system we have.
#4. To: lucysmom (#0)
you can not keep on shifting income from labor to capital without not having an excess capacity and a lack of aggregate demand. We thought that markets work. They are not working.
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#5. To: hondo68 (#4)
The reason that the "markets are not working" and the economy stinks, is a long series of government screw ups, printing funny money, thousands of special interest (globalist) regulations on both business and consumers. D&R politicians take the bribes, and we the people get screwed.
#6. To: lucysmom (#5)
Somalia - how's that working out?
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#7. To: lucysmom (#5)
No government to bribe or screw up in Somalia - how's that working out?
#8. To: hondo68 (#6)
Why don't you move there and send us a report? You seem obsessed with the place.
#9. To: hondo68, lucysmom (#4)
(Edited)
. Then the unions got greedy... and along came VW, Toyota, and Honda. Detroit is now a socialist paradise.
#10. To: lucysmom (#1)
#11. To: lucysmom (#1)
#12. To: Badeye, lucysmom, A K A Stone (#10)
Goofy, would you please be so kind as to not spam my account here?
#13. To: Capitalist Eric (#12)
#14. To: Badeye (#13)
#15. To: go65 (#11)
(Edited)
In a global economy, borrowing money to stimulate demand is a foolish proposition -- jwpegler
#16. To: jwpegler (#15)
I'll make the point that I've been making for over a year -- we need to have a system where people like Steve Jobs and Bill Gates can open businesses in their garages and grow them into huge companies with tens of thousands of employees.
That system requires an educated populous and really simple rules.
What we have to day are functional illiterates and the most convoluted tax and regulatory system on the planet. So, of course the economy is not working.
#17. To: go65 (#16)
(Edited)
In my experiences the biggest thing keeping folks from starting their own businesses is fear of losing health insurance. Go to a single-payer model and watch people start business after business.
#18. To: go65 (#16)
In my experiences the biggest thing keeping folks from starting their own businesses is fear of losing health insurance.
In a global economy, borrowing money to stimulate demand is a foolish proposition -- jwpegler
#19. To: go65, jwpegler (#16)
What we have to day are functional illiterates and the most convoluted tax and regulatory system on the planet. So, of course the economy is not working.
#20. To: jwpegler (#18)
No one who has the vision to start a company that could be worth billions one day is going to be stopped by that.
#21. To: jwpegler (#18)
No one who has the vision to start a company that could be worth billions one day is going to be stopped by that.
#22. To: go65 (#21)
Unless they have kids/family.
In a global economy, borrowing money to stimulate demand is a foolish proposition -- jwpegler
#23. To: jwpegler (#22)
I pay $380 a month for such a plan for myself, wife, and three kids. It's not that difficult.
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#24. To: jwpegler (#22)
People will great vision aren't going to be stopped because they don't want to shell out $400 a month for a catastrophic healthcare plan. PERIOD.
#25. To: lucysmom (#24)
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#26. To: war (#25)
You can't even get that for one person any more...nothing close...
#27. To: war (#23)
Bullshit.
#28. To: jwpegler (#22)
People will great vision aren't going to be stopped because they don't want to shell out $400 a month for a catastrophic healthcare plan. PERIOD.
#29. To: war, lucysmom, jwpegler (#23)
Bullshit.
#30. To: go65 (#29)
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#31. To: go65, capitalist eric (#21)
In a global economy, borrowing money to stimulate demand is a foolish proposition -- jwpegler
#32. To: go65 (#28)
but I'm a lot less of a risk taker now that I've got 3 mouths to feed
In a global economy, borrowing money to stimulate demand is a foolish proposition -- jwpegler
#33. To: jwpegler (#31)
Assurant Catastrophic Plan -- $372.33
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#34. To: jwpegler (#31)
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#35. To: jwpegler, go65, capitalist eric (#31)
America has become a nation of the dumb, lazy, and dependent.
#36. To: Godwinson (#35)
jwpegler: America has become a nation of the dumb, lazy, and dependent. These people harm us all. Increasingly, my view is that we should just shut down all social welfare programs and put people on cold turkey to shock them out of the stupor that they've put themselves in.
change" CHAINS, to be extremely offensive.
#37. To: jwpegler (#31)
America has become a nation of the dumb, lazy, and dependent.
#38. To: jwpegler (#32)
the concept of "job security" is an illusion, unless of course you are a government bureaucrat.
#39. To: Capitalist Eric (#36)
There two types of leftists -- idiots and tyrants. The idiots believe that big government has the answers. The tyrants exploit those beliefs to maintain power and control. -- jwpegler
#40. To: jwpegler (#39)
These people aren't smart enough to get it.
#41. To: go65 (#37)
(Edited)
You say stuff like this all the time, and constantly praise countries outside the U.S. such as Singapore and Taiwan, all of whom have stronger social safety nets and universal health insurance programs.
There two types of leftists -- idiots and tyrants. The idiots believe that big government has the answers. The tyrants exploit those beliefs to maintain power and control. -- jwpegler
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