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Economy
See other Economy Articles

Title: Nouriel 'Dr. Doom' Roubini: ‘Karl Marx Was Right’
Source: International Business Times
URL Source: http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/197 ... -crisis-debt-crisis-europe.htm
Published: Aug 13, 2011
Author: Joseph Lazzaro
Post Date: 2011-08-28 11:38:18 by lucysmom
Keywords: None
Views: 34420
Comments: 59

Companies, Roubini said, are motivated to minimize costs, to save and stockpile cash, but this leads to less money in the hands of employees, which means they have less money to spend and flow back to companies.

Now, in the current financial crisis, consumers, in addition to having less money to spend due to the above, are also motivated to minimize costs, to save and stockpile cash, magnifying the effect of less money flowing back to companies.

"Karl Marx had it right," Roubini said in an interview with wsj.com. "At some point capitalism can self-destroy itself. That's because you can not keep on shifting income from labor to capital without not having an excess capacity and a lack of aggregate demand. We thought that markets work. They are not working. What's individually rational ... is a self-destructive process."

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 58.

#1. To: Badeye, A K A Stone, hondo68, Fred Mertz, Godwinson, go65, war, no gnu taxes, Skip Intro, ferret mike, jwpegler, brian s, mcgowanjm, Capitalist Eric, mininggold (#0)

What's individually rational ... is a self-destructive process.

lucysmom  posted on  2011-08-28   11:40:16 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: lucysmom (#1)

the senior economic advisor to UBS just penned an article for Bloomberg essentially agreeing with Roubini.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-29/give-marx-a-chance-to-save-the-world-economy-commentary-by-george-magnus.html

Folks need to realize that while Roubini and Magnus are saying Marx correctly identified a problem with capitalism, neither are advocating communism as the correct response.

go65  posted on  2011-08-29   16:27:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: go65 (#11) (Edited)

companies’ pursuit of profits and productivity would naturally lead them to need fewer and fewer workers, creating an “industrial reserve army” of the poor and unemployed

Yes, but only if you look at a single industry at a time. At one time 80% of the country worked on farms. Today, it's less than 4%. Are the other 76% unemployed? No. People found jobs in newer industries like manufacturing. As manufacturing productivity increased, people found jobs in technology. On and on.

I'll make the point that I've been making for over a year -- we need to have a system where people like Steve Jobs and Bill Gates can open businesses in their garages and grow them into huge companies with tens of thousands of employees.

That system requires an educated populous and really simple rules.

What we have to day are functional illiterates and the most convoluted tax and regulatory system on the planet. So, of course the economy is not working.

Change government policies and we'll change the economy.

jwpegler  posted on  2011-08-29   19:39:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: jwpegler (#15)

I'll make the point that I've been making for over a year -- we need to have a system where people like Steve Jobs and Bill Gates can open businesses in their garages and grow them into huge companies with tens of thousands of employees.

In my experiences the biggest thing keeping folks from starting their own businesses is fear of losing health insurance. Go to a single-payer model and watch people start business after business.

That system requires an educated populous and really simple rules.

I assume you support Kerry's plan to grant citizenship to anyone who comes here and graduates from a 4-year institution?

What we have to day are functional illiterates and the most convoluted tax and regulatory system on the planet. So, of course the economy is not working.

We agree on the tax system.

go65  posted on  2011-08-29   21:50:16 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: go65 (#16)

In my experiences the biggest thing keeping folks from starting their own businesses is fear of losing health insurance.

No one who has the vision to start a company that could be worth billions one day is going to be stopped by that.

Sure, maybe that's a barrier for someone who would like to open their own Amway or Avon "business", but that's not what I'm talking about.

jwpegler  posted on  2011-08-30   10:58:11 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: jwpegler (#18)

No one who has the vision to start a company that could be worth billions one day is going to be stopped by that.

Unless they have kids/family.

go65  posted on  2011-08-30   11:07:37 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: go65, capitalist eric (#21)

I see that the lazy, retarded nimrods have decided to chime in.

Given that they are too stupid and/or lazy to research things themselves on google, I've decided to spend 6.5 minutes doing it for them:

Go to http://www.ehealthinsurance.com

Type in a Seattle area zip code:

Model a 5 person family -- 50+ husband, 30+ wife, 3 underage daughters.

Here are a sample of the catastrophic plans that show up:

Assurant Catastrophic Plan -- $372.33

Group Health 3500 Catestrophic Plan -- 438.00

Lifewise Copay 7500 -- $456.00

Regence Evolve HSA -- $511.00

Shall I continue???

America has become a nation of the dumb, lazy, and dependent. These people harm us all. Increasingly, my view is that we should just shut down all social welfare programs and put people on cold turkey to shock them out of the stupor that they've put themselves in.

jwpegler  posted on  2011-08-30   15:58:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: jwpegler (#31)

America has become a nation of the dumb, lazy, and dependent.

You say stuff like this all the time, and constantly praise countries outside the U.S. such as Singapore and Taiwan, all of whom have stronger social safety nets and universal health insurance programs.

I'm just saying.....

go65  posted on  2011-08-30   17:16:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: go65 (#37) (Edited)

You say stuff like this all the time, and constantly praise countries outside the U.S. such as Singapore and Taiwan, all of whom have stronger social safety nets and universal health insurance programs.

No, I spend a lot of time in Asia and that's completely wrong.

In Asia you are expected to take care of yourself. If you can't, your family is expected to take care of you. If you don't have a family, then what happens to you depends on the country. In Singapore, the government funnels a tiny amount of money through private charities. In the Philippines, the government doesn't do squat for you. You rely on the goodwill of your neighbors.

The U.S. government has spent 100 years destroying the entire notion that you are responsible for yourself and that you are also responsible for your family. They have destroyed the entire notion of community.

America used to have mutual aid societies that helped members who were in need, including providing inexpensive medical care. The U.S. government at the behest of the AMA put an end to that.

That's the problem. The result is a bunch of stupid, fat, lazy, dependent morons who are destroying the country.

jwpegler  posted on  2011-08-30   17:47:53 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: jwpegler (#41)

No, I spend a lot of time in Asia and that's completely wrong.

In Asia you are expected to take care of yourself. If you can't, your family is expected to take care of you. If you don't have a family, then what happens to you depends on the country. In Singapore, the government funnels a tiny amount of money through private charities. In the Philippines, the government doesn't do squat for you. You rely on the goodwill of your neighbors.

We've been through this a number of times now. Singapore has universal health insurance coverage and a highly regulated market.

Taiwan has universal health insurance coverage.

The Philippines has a national health insurance program (PhilHealth) and 40% of the hospitals are owned by the government (and a huge problem with health care practitioners leaving the country due to low pay, 70% of nursing school grads leave the country).

I don't know why you continue on insisting to ignore the simple fact that all the countries you praise as being superior to the U.S. have universal insurance programs.

go65  posted on  2011-08-31   11:09:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: go65, capitalist eric (#50)

Singapore has universal health insurance coverage

Singapore has medical savings accounts where people take responsibility for making their own healthcare purchasing decisions. The Singapore system is 180 degrees in the opposition direction of where Obama and the Democrats are heading.

The Philippines has a national health insurance program

My wife is from the Philippines. Let me give you a little lesson about the third world. In the third world, the term "national" usually refers to the capital city of the country. They may have a government health insurance program in Manila. But if they do, it's not what you imagine it to be. It certainly doesn't exist anywhere else in the country.

In fact, on one of my trips there, one of my wife's cousins was injured in a motorcycle accident and had to be hospitalized. He couldn't pay. So, his closest relatives had to go pay. By custom and by law, you are responsible for your relatives, as is the case in all Asian countries.

My wife lived in the second largest city metro area in the country -- Cebu City. The primary hospital in the area (Cebu Doctor's University Hospital) is a private hospital and medical school. The have two branches -- one in Cebu City and the other in a Mandaue (a suburb of Cebu city). Manila may have some government hospitals, but it's not relevant to the other 80 million people in the country.

So please go ahead, google to heart's content, and continue to live in your little fantasy world. I've been to Asian dozens and dozens of times, and I can tell you with complete certainty that Asia does NOT work the way you imagine it does.

It's the difference between book larnin' and real world experience.

jwpegler  posted on  2011-08-31   11:33:07 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: jwpegler (#51)

Singapore has medical savings accounts where people take responsibility for making their own healthcare purchasing decisions. The Singapore system is 180 degrees in the opposition direction of where Obama and the Democrats are heading.

Those accounts are mandatory - people don't take responsibility for themselves on their own, the government "forces" them to take responsibility.

And the savings accounts are backed up by a national catastrophic health insurance program and government subsidies to the poor. And, the Singapore Government owns/operates 10 of the nation's 23 hospitals. These are all FACTS that you continue to ignore.

Given the current GOP front runner presides over a state where 25% of the population lacks any kind of coverage, the U.S. is heading toward further reducing its social safety net, something I can't tell if you'd criticize or applaud. I guess you'll applaud it here at home while you continue to praise nations with national health insurance programs?

go65  posted on  2011-08-31   11:42:11 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: go65 (#52)

Given the current GOP front runner presides over a state where 25% of the population lacks any kind of coverage, the U.S. is heading toward further reducing its social safety net, something I can't tell if you'd criticize or applaud. I guess you'll applaud it here at home while you continue to praise nations with national health insurance programs?

Good capitalists want their foreign workforces to be healthy.

mininggold  posted on  2011-08-31   11:51:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: mininggold (#54) (Edited)

Good capitalists want their foreign workforces to be healthy.

The slaves and captives who built the Great Pyramids and The Great Wall of China were all very well fed, housed and equipped...then murdered and buried nearby...

war  posted on  2011-08-31   11:53:20 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: war (#55)

The slaves and captives who built the Great Pyramids and The Great Wall of China were all very well fed, housed and equipped...then murdered and buried nearby...

JPeg would have everyone in the US murdered at retirement age. I still think he's Bucky, who also thinks that there's too many people on earth.

mininggold  posted on  2011-08-31   11:58:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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