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Title: US Troops May Stay In Afghanistan Until 2024
Source:
Telegraph UK
URL Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor ... in-Afghanistan-until-2024.html
Published: Aug 19, 2011
Author: Ben Farmer, Kabul
Post Date: 2011-08-19 20:20:56 by Brian S
Keywords: None
Views: 2335
Comments: 9
America and Afghanistan are close to signing a strategic pact which would allow thousands of United States troops to remain in the country until at least 2024, The Daily Telegraph can disclose. The agreement would allow not only military trainers to stay to build up the Afghan army and police, but also American special forces soldiers and air power to remain. The prospect of such a deal has already been met with anger among Afghanistan’s neighbours including, publicly, Iran and, privately, Pakistan. It also risks being rejected by the Taliban and derailing any attempt to coax them to the negotiating table, according to one senior member of Hamid Karzai’s peace council. A withdrawal of American troops has already begun following an agreement to hand over security for the country to Kabul by the end of 2014. But Afghans wary of being abandoned are keen to lock America into a longer partnership after the deadline. Many analysts also believe the American military would like to retain a presence close to Pakistan, Iran and China. Both Afghan and American officials said that they hoped to sign the pact before the Bonn Conference on Afghanistan in December. Barack Obama and Hamid Karzai agreed last week to escalate the negotiations and their national security advisers will meet in Washington in September. Rangin Dadfar Spanta, Mr Karzai’s top security adviser, told The Daily Telegraph that “remarkable progress” had been made. US officials have said they would be disappointed if a deal could not be reached by December and that the majority of small print had been agreed. Dr Spanta said a longer-term presence was crucial not only to build Afghan forces, but also to fight terrorism. “If [the Americans] provide us weapons and equipment, they need facilities to bring that equipment,” he said. “If they train our police and soldiers, then those trainers will not be 10 or 20, they will be thousands. “We know we will be confronted with international terrorists. 2014, is not the end of international terrorist networks and we have a common commitment to fight them. For this purpose also, the US needs facilities.” Afghan forces would still need support from US fighter aircraft and helicopters, he predicted. In the past, Washington officials have estimated a total of 25,000 troops may be needed. Dr Spanta added: “In the Afghan proposal we are talking about 10 years from 2014, but this is under discussion.” America would not be granted its own bases, and would be a guest on Afghan bases, he said. Pakistan and Iran were also deeply opposed to the deal. Andrey Avetisyan, Russian ambassador to Kabul, said: “Afghanistan needs many other things apart from the permanent military presence of some countries. It needs economic help and it needs peace. Military bases are not a tool for peace. “I don’t understand why such bases are needed. If the job is done, if terrorism is defeated and peace and stability is brought back, then why would you need bases? “If the job is not done, then several thousand troops, even special forces, will not be able to do the job that 150,000 troops couldn’t do. It is not possible.” A complete withdrawal of foreign troops has been a precondition for any Taliban negotiations with Mr Karzai’s government and the deal would wreck the currently distant prospect of a negotiated peace, Mr Avetisyan said. Abdul Hakim Mujahid, deputy leader of the peace council set up by Mr Karzai to seek a settlement, said he suspected the Taliban had intensified their insurgency in response to the prospect of the pact. “They want to put pressure on the world community and Afghan government,” he said.
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#1. To: Brian S (#0)
“I don’t understand why such bases are needed. If the job is done, if terrorism is defeated and peace and stability is brought back, then why would you need bases? “If the job is not done, then several thousand troops, even special forces, will not be able to do the job that 150,000 troops couldn’t do. It is not possible.” And a Russian should know from experience as they failed too. America shall make Afghanistan a living HELL. We have been there about ten years now, making that war the longest running war in US history. And since there is no end in sight, it is another failed war. Since WW2, all wars that the US has been involved in have failed and the reason: failed leadership in the US for a clear entry AND exit strategy both tactically and strategically.
The fighting isn't quite 10 percent over. We wont leave until at least 2101. We'll all be dead.
Oh yeah, pal? Well, I have news for you. November 3rd, 2008 Our Founding Fathers were collectively the brightest, wealthiest, and most powerful men of their era. They risked everything they had by declaring their independence from what was, at that time, the greatest military and economic power in the world. Quite frankly, we have not had such intellect, innovation, and “testicular fortitude” at the helm of our country since then, and I believe will never see men of such strong backbone in our government again. Just over 200 years later, England is a shadow of its past world dominance and the United States has fallen so far away from the country our forefathers created for us that they would shed tears of dismay if they could walk among us today. History provides a road map of where the US is heading… Is our demise inevitable? No, but ONLY if we study the past and make the difficult, yet proper, decisions to prevent history from repeating itself in our country as it has done with every group of people before us, from every culture imaginable. Consider this: About the time our original thirteen states adopted their new constitution in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years earlier: ‘A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government.’ ‘A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury.’ ‘From that moment on, the majority always vote for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.’ ‘The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years.’ ‘During those 200 years, those nations always progressed through the following sequence: So WHERE are we, citizens of the United States in the historically proven Life Cycle of Nations? Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law, St. Paul, Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the 2000 Presidential election: •Number of States won by Democrats: 19, Republicans: 29 Professor Olson adds: ‘In aggregate, the map of the territory Republicans won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of this great country. Democrat territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in government-owned tenements and living off various forms of government welfare…’ Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the complacency and apathy phase of Professor Tyler’s definition of democracy, with some forty percent of the nation’s population already having reached the ‘governmental dependency’ phase. So now we have another election that could place the Office of the President, the Senate, and the House of Representatives into the hands of the Democratic Party. Should this happen, the Democrats will be allowed to run unchecked, ramming down our throats all of their democratic ideals such as massive gun control, free health care for the poor, amnesty for illegal immigrants, and excessive regulation and taxation of small businesses to pay for their big government as they “share the wealth” at the expense of those making the wealth, through an endless source of new entitlement programs. So WHERE are we, citizens of the United States in the historically proven Life Cycle of Nations? The Presidential Election of Tuesday, November 4, 2008 will tell us. Should we, as a people, be so foolish enough to elect a Democrat for president and place control of the Senate and the House of Representative into the hands of the Democrats as well, then we will rapidly accelerate our descent back into bondage. Again, the Life Cycle of Nations is proven over thousands of years. The only way we can avoid the inevitable fall of the USA is to recognize the historic path we are following and make the difficult, but needed, decisions to turn our country around by once again placing our emphasis on individual responsibility and liberty rather than government bailouts and entitlements for the masses. Yes, I know there are Democrats who own guns, attend Front Sight and subscribe to my e-mail newsletters. Your support of Front Sight is appreciated. However, with all of the issues surrounding this election, there is really only ONE issue that is the Litmus Test of Freedom and that issue is GUNS IN THE HANDS OF FREE MEN. Without guns (the same guns the government has) in the hands of the citizenship, we cannot remain free. With guns in our hands, we can NEVER be placed back into bondage. Our Founding Fathers knew this and so do our modern politicians. McCain is no hero of gun owners and the Second Amendment. However, Barack Hussein Obama and Joe “Assault Weapons Ban” Biden are notorious enemies of gun owners and the freedom a gun in your hand guarantees. Anyone who owns a gun should understand this: Ultimately, your freedom and your ability to protect your family rests in keeping your gun in YOUR hands and not the hands of the government. There are 80 million gun owners in this country. Collectively, if we voted the Litmus Test of Freedom, we could control America’s destiny. For this reason and this reason alone, for ALL 80 million gun owners there is really only one choice on November 4 and that choice is Sarah Palin. And if you do not yet have a Handgun and Concealed Weapon Permit, then by all means take advantage of my Greatest Course, Gun, and Gear Offer that will put a Springfield Armory XD Pistol in your hands with 5 DAYS of our world-class training, as well as permits that allow you to carry a concealed handgun in over 30 states! I post a different article on this blog each Monday so I look forward to your visit every week. If you have an interesting photo, story or tip about a relevant topic of interest to gun ownership, firearms training or Second Amendment issues, please feel free to send it to me at: info@frontsight.com Again, take advantage of the Greatest Course, Gun, and CCW Permit offer in the firearms training industry see this link: https://www.frontsight.com/free-gun.asp See you next week. Dr. Ignatius Piazza Founder and Director Front Sight Firearms Training Institute Entry Filed under: Dr. Ignatius Piazza,Front Sight,Monday Blog Posts. above link: http://www.ignatius-piazza-front-sight.com/2008/11/03/the-life-cycle-of-nation/ We will be out of Afghanistan in a jiffy now.
The author is drunk as a skunk on GOP kool-aid. Trigger lock McInsane? A pitiful exhibition!
Obama's watch stopped on 24 May 2008, but he's been too busy smoking crack to notice.
I placed his entire article for review without regard to preference for and about Palin so as to not edit his own opinion. I make no excuses at all other than the date of his article back in 2008. For most of his article, Dr. Ignatius Piazza seems to have a clear view of what is happening AND transitioning in America.
[the Bait] Without guns (the same guns the government has) in the hands of the citizenship, we cannot remain free. [the switch #1] that choice is Sarah Palin [switch #2] permits that allow you to carry a concealed handgun in over 30 states! tip about a relevant topic of interest to gun ownership, firearms training or Second Amendment issues The Scottish professor is golden. He's close to being right in that we can have whatever the military has. However we don't have ANY restrictions on weapons, but the military is stuck with whatever congress gives them. Palin = McCain = gun grabber Permits are illegal infringements. My tip for the two GOP NRA gun grabbers is... quit the GOP and the NRA, and read the Constitution paying particular attention to the 2nd amendment.
Obama's watch stopped on 24 May 2008, but he's been too busy smoking crack to notice.
[the Bait] Without guns (the same guns the government has) in the hands of the citizenship, we cannot remain free. I didn't intend to use Dr. Ignatius Piazza's own reference in the article as it is meaningless and has been beaten down on SNOPES.com Dr. Ignatius Piazza is an avid firearm's owner and has something to say. I used his reference about the transition of American Democracy as a method, to show Stone his own pathetic one hundred year suggestion of remaining in Afghanistan. I also posted a thread refining my own post using Piazza's own references. It is here: An Observation on Democracy. Again the REAL idea is the transitioning of American Democracy. Afghanistan is soon to collapse as America leaves.
Note no mention of Pop Centers. Or the fact that the 2000 Selection was stolen...;} I knew evil was on the way. And the US doesn't have enough guns yet? Every nuclear reactor is a nuclear bomb. And every one will melt down.
www.tomdispatch.com/post/...%2C_george_w._obama/#more Symptoms of the Bush-Obama Presidency The Saved and the Sacked By David Bromwich Meanwhile, back at home... The usual turn from unsatisfying wars abroad to happier domestic conditions, however, no longer seems tenable. In these August days, Americans are rubbing their eyes, still wondering what has befallen us with the president’s "debt deal" -- a shifting of tectonic plates beneath the economy of a sort Dick Cheney might have dreamed of, but which Barack Obama and the House Republicans together brought to fruition. A redistribution of wealth and power more than three decades in the making has now been carved into the system and given the stamp of permanence. Only a Democratic president, and only one associated in the public mind (however wrongly) with the fortunes of the poor, could have accomplished such a reversal with such sickening completeness. One of the last good times that President Obama enjoyed before the frenzy of debt negotiations began was a chuckle he shared with Jeff Immelt, CEO of General Electric and now head of the president’s outside panel of economic advisers. At a June 13th meeting of the president’s Council on Jobs and Competitiveness, a questioner said he assumed that President Obama knew about the difficulties caused by the drawn-out process of securing permits for construction jobs. Obama leaned into the microphone and offered a breezy ad-lib: "Shovel ready wasn’t as, uh, shovel-ready as we expected" -- and Immelt got off a hearty laugh. An unguarded moment: the president of "hope and change" signifying his solidarity with the big managers whose worldly irony he had adopted. The Empire is fucked. And the Troops might not make it home. monday....the run on Europe's Banks has already started. And the Only thing that Ended the Depression and gave us a AAA from S&P was Pearl Harbor. Buckle Up...
Andrey Avetisyan, Russian ambassador to Kabul, said: “Afghanistan needs many other things apart from the permanent military presence of some countries. It needs economic help and it needs peace. Military bases are not a tool for peace.
#2. To: buckeroo (#1)
#3. To: A K A Stone (#2)
The Life Cycle of a Nation
1. from bondage to spiritual faith;
2. from spiritual faith to great courage;
3. from courage to liberty;
4. from liberty to abundance;
5. from abundance to complacency;
6. from complacency to apathy;
7. from apathy to dependence;
8. from dependence back into bondage.
•Square miles of land won by Democrats: 580,000, Republicans: 2,427,000
•Population of counties won by Democrats: 127 million, Republicans: 143 million
•Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by Democrats: 13.2, Republicans: 2.1
#4. To: buckeroo, *Yukon neo-Progressive Vermin* (#3)
for ALL 80 million gun owners there is really only one choice on November 4 and that choice is Sarah Palin
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#5. To: hondo68 (#4)
(Edited)
A pitiful exhibition!
#6. To: buckeroo, *Jack-Booted Thugs* (#3)
(Edited)
1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#7. To: hondo68 (#6)
1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh
#8. To: buckeroo (#3)
#9. To: All (#8)
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