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Title: DESTRO: Jesus is a big government tax and spend socialist
Source:
the-peoples-forum.com
URL Source: http://the-peoples-forum.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=25446
Published: Aug 16, 2011
Author: Destro
Post Date: 2011-08-16 09:42:45 by Godwinson
Keywords: None
Views: 30916
Comments: 51
Jesus is a big government tax and spend socialist.
Here is God saying so in his own words in the Bible:
In Genesis 41:33-36, God's via Joseph gives his advice to Pharaoh to tax and then spend and subsidize the economy in times of recession:
“Now therefore, let Pharaoh select a discerning and wise man, and set him over the land of Egypt. Let Pharaoh do this, and let him appoint officers over the land, to collect one-fifth of the produce of the land of Egypt in the seven plentiful years. And let them gather all the food of those good years that are coming, and store up grain under the authority of Pharaoh, and let them keep food in the cities. Then that food shall be as a reserve for the land for the seven years of famine which shall be in the land of Egypt, that the land may not perish during the famine.”
In Ex 23:10-11, Lev 25:5-7 God is pro government regulation of industry basically halting commerce for the sake of society.
In Deut 15:1-6 and Deut 15:3 from Deut 15:7-11 the Scriptures teach a cancelling of outstanding debt and not just an annulment of the interest on the debt.
Jesus was pro taxes: In Matthew 17:24-27 we learn that Jesus did indeed pay taxes: "After Jesus and his disciples arrived in Capernaum, the collectors of the two-drachma tax came to Peter and asked, "Doesn't your teacher pay the temple tax?" "Yes, he does," he replied."
In Matthew 22:15-22 we read: "Then the Pharisees went out and laid plans to trap him in his words. They sent their disciples to him along with the Herodians. "Teacher," they said, "we know you are a man of integrity and that you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. You aren't swayed by men, because you pay no attention to who they are. Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay taxes to Caesar or not?" But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, "You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? Show me the coin used for paying the tax." They brought him a denarius, and he asked them, "Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?" "Caesar's," they replied. Then he said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's." When they heard this, they were amazed. So they left him and went away. (NIV)"
This same incident is also recorded in Mark 12:13-17 and Luke 20:20-26.
So the gospels leave no doubt that Jesus taught his followers not only in words, but by example, to give to the government any taxes that are owed.
In Romans 13:1, Paul brings further clarification to this concept, along with an even broader responsibility to Christians:
"Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God." (NIV) Therefore, we can conclude from this verse, if we don't pay taxes we are rebelling against the authorities established by God.
Romans 13:2 gives this warning:
"Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves."
And finally, regarding the paying of taxes, Paul couldn't make it any clearer in Romans 13:5-7:
"Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor."
Jesus was against capitalist banking (Matthew 21:12):
Jesus entered the temple area and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves.
Jesus is against markets: John 2:16 "To those who sold doves he said, "Get these out of here! How dare you turn my Father's house into a market!""
Jesus warns the rich against hoarding their money and for giving away their money to the poor: Mark 10:17-25.
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#1. To: Godwinson (#0)
They already take more the 20 percent, and there is no famine. Everyone got to eat the food, not just the deadbeats.
The NIV is not a good translation by the way. Use the King James version.
God = Big Govt Socialist
With the economy still in the dumper -- maybe permanently? -- and full-time jobs becoming as scarce as rain during a drought, huge percentages of Americans have had their (misplaced) faith in the American dream shaken, the upper-middle-class consumerist lifestyle is exposed as a mirage for anybody who plays by the rules. Capitalism and the America that embraced it as a way of life is now and forever more a failure. It does me good to know that the generation that voted in Reagan and his ideology will see their America die from that ideology before their very own eyes and knowing they had a hand in its destruction.
You're a nutjob. I feel sorry for you. Get off the internet and get a job outside somewhere. Get some fresh air. The Bible says you don't work you don't eat. Your big government nightmare says go work and give to lazy asses. Your heart may be in the right place, but you're crazy.
Where? Last I read the Bible Jesus gave fish and bread away for free as if they were made out of thin air.
With the economy still in the dumper -- maybe permanently? -- and full-time jobs becoming as scarce as rain during a drought, huge percentages of Americans have had their (misplaced) faith in the American dream shaken, the upper-middle-class consumerist lifestyle is exposed as a mirage for anybody who plays by the rules. Capitalism and the America that embraced it as a way of life is now and forever more a failure. It does me good to know that the generation that voted in Reagan and his ideology will see their America die from that ideology before their very own eyes and knowing they had a hand in its destruction.
I'd like to know how you know that. Are you proficient in translating Greek to English?
Both translation say the same thing. Stone is not able to refute the points presented and thus his mind went into shut down mode.
With the economy still in the dumper -- maybe permanently? -- and full-time jobs becoming as scarce as rain during a drought, huge percentages of Americans have had their (misplaced) faith in the American dream shaken, the upper-middle-class consumerist lifestyle is exposed as a mirage for anybody who plays by the rules. Capitalism and the America that embraced it as a way of life is now and forever more a failure. It does me good to know that the generation that voted in Reagan and his ideology will see their America die from that ideology before their very own eyes and knowing they had a hand in its destruction.
Because the NIV calls Jesus a sinner.
Where? Last I read the Bible Jesus gave fish and bread away for free as if they were made out of thin air. 2 Thessalonians 3:10 King James Version (KJV) 10For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat. They followed Jesus and he fed them. That doesn't mean they weren't to work.
You mistake socialism with welfare. Socialism is the control of enterprise for the betterment of society, per God's own words. Bible in Basic English: "For it has come to our ears that there are some among you whose behaviour is uncontrolled, who do no work at all, but are over-interested in the business of others."
With the economy still in the dumper -- maybe permanently? -- and full-time jobs becoming as scarce as rain during a drought, huge percentages of Americans have had their (misplaced) faith in the American dream shaken, the upper-middle-class consumerist lifestyle is exposed as a mirage for anybody who plays by the rules. Capitalism and the America that embraced it as a way of life is now and forever more a failure. It does me good to know that the generation that voted in Reagan and his ideology will see their America die from that ideology before their very own eyes and knowing they had a hand in its destruction.
I'm not part of an ant colony. I am an individual with individual desires and needs. Screw your group think.
There is always famine somewhere we just don't notice so much in this country because government has made it easy to move food from a place of plenty to a place of need. Why did God instruct Pharaoh to collect food and hold it for the people? If He were a free marketeer wouldn't he have instructed the wealthy to hold back part of their harvest and store it. Think of the profits the private sector could have made selling grain to a starving people. The productive would eat and the deadbeats would starve. Maybe God just wasn't aware of the opportunities for money to be made.
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly
So you reject the teachings of Jesus that we are a part of a community? That is what ecclessia means, a congregation - to come together for a common cause.
With the economy still in the dumper -- maybe permanently? -- and full-time jobs becoming as scarce as rain during a drought, huge percentages of Americans have had their (misplaced) faith in the American dream shaken, the upper-middle-class consumerist lifestyle is exposed as a mirage for anybody who plays by the rules. Capitalism and the America that embraced it as a way of life is now and forever more a failure. It does me good to know that the generation that voted in Reagan and his ideology will see their America die from that ideology before their very own eyes and knowing they had a hand in its destruction.
Maybe God just wasn't aware of the opportunities for money to be made. I have no problem with the government storing food like this for the people. I do have a problem with deadbeats who abuse the system. Most people on government assistance should be cut off.
Coming together voluntary to help each other out is one thing. Having the government threaten to lock you up if you don't give to deadbeats is another thing entirely.
So then you're a goat and not a sheep?
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly
Most people on government assistance are children. Jeremiah 22:16 He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?" declares the LORD.
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly
That doesn't happen outside your fevered imagination.
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly
So I ask again: Are you proficient in translating Greek to English?
Jesus says to obey the secular authorities over you and to pay taxes to them: Romans 13:5-7: "Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor."
With the economy still in the dumper -- maybe permanently? -- and full-time jobs becoming as scarce as rain during a drought, huge percentages of Americans have had their (misplaced) faith in the American dream shaken, the upper-middle-class consumerist lifestyle is exposed as a mirage for anybody who plays by the rules. Capitalism and the America that embraced it as a way of life is now and forever more a failure. It does me good to know that the generation that voted in Reagan and his ideology will see their America die from that ideology before their very own eyes and knowing they had a hand in its destruction.
Yeah, you commies like to start em off young.
Obama's watch stopped on 24 May 2008, but he's been too busy smoking crack to notice.
Yet you were admittedly raised in a household where everyone no matter how young had to 'earn their keep'. It's no wonder that you now spend your days on the internet posting gibberish and google keywords.
Actually LM. The government does put people in jail that don't pay their taxes.
The NIV calls jesus a sinner. That means it is not reliable. God said his word would be translated. So I don't need to know greek. I speak English only. I know a few Japanese words and some German and Mexican curse words too.
If you don't know Greek then how do you know which translation is the correct one?
Not really but online those who attack the NIV version say that by not including a qualifier about Jesus being angry with cause makes Jesus just angry and to be angry without a cause is a sin. Convoluted thinking. http://www.kjv-only.com/matt5_22.html Many KJV-only supporters will point out that "without a cause" is not present in many popular translations like the NIV and NASB, and then take us to John 2:13-17 where Jesus is angry and cleanses the temple. They then say that the newer versions, because Jesus was angry yet "without a cause" is not present in Matt 5:22, have indicated that Jesus sinned. The text of the KJV and a few other translations say that anger "without a cause" will cause one to be in danger of the judgement. I have asked several people (including some KJV-only supporters), without response, how it would even be possible to be angry "without a cause" in the first place. All anger has a cause. Sometimes the cause is good, sometimes not, but there is always a "cause" - seeing an injustice, jealousy, pride, being beaten at checkers, etc. For example, was it wrong for Cain to be angry and kill Able? He had a cause - Able's sacrifice was accepted while his wasn't. Perhaps jealousy. Perhaps pride. Perhaps he felt he was being treated unfairly. Hitler had a "cause". Nero had a "cause". The antichrist will have a "cause". Does the KJV get these men off the hook? Now, some of you might say "but these aren't good causes". The text doesn't say "good cause" or "just cause", it simply says "cause".
With the economy still in the dumper -- maybe permanently? -- and full-time jobs becoming as scarce as rain during a drought, huge percentages of Americans have had their (misplaced) faith in the American dream shaken, the upper-middle-class consumerist lifestyle is exposed as a mirage for anybody who plays by the rules. Capitalism and the America that embraced it as a way of life is now and forever more a failure. It does me good to know that the generation that voted in Reagan and his ideology will see their America die from that ideology before their very own eyes and knowing they had a hand in its destruction.
However, this is what you wrote and I responded to: Having the government threaten to lock you up if you don't give to deadbeats is another thing entirely.
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly
Not really... Basically, he knows the NIV is not accurate because someone told him.
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly
Not really... Basically, he knows the NIV is not accurate because someone told him. The NIV implies Jesus got mad without cause, which gets interpreted by some as being a sin. Why getting mad with cause is not a sin is beyond my theological understanding.
According to Ephesians 4:26 getting angry is not a sin; Be angry, and do not sin: do not let the sun go down on your wrath It is not anger that is sinful, but one may do sinful things in anger.
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly
That is silly. God is the original conservative.
That's funny you think God is your kind of conservative even in the face of scripture contradicting your view.
With the economy still in the dumper -- maybe permanently? -- and full-time jobs becoming as scarce as rain during a drought, huge percentages of Americans have had their (misplaced) faith in the American dream shaken, the upper-middle-class consumerist lifestyle is exposed as a mirage for anybody who plays by the rules. Capitalism and the America that embraced it as a way of life is now and forever more a failure. It does me good to know that the generation that voted in Reagan and his ideology will see their America die from that ideology before their very own eyes and knowing they had a hand in its destruction.
Never forget that man (or woman) created God in their image.
So you wouldn't get angry if some hoodlum came along and chopped off grannies head while she was feeding some birds at the park? What kind of monster are you?
It is not anger that is sinful, but one may do sinful things in anger. That is correct. The NIV says otherwise though.
I would wager that I understand the scripture as well- if not better than you do. God is a Conservative. Scripture supports small government, personal responsbility ,conservation and fiscal responsibility- and charity given in the name of Jesus, to aid the poor and the widows. Show me the money, OR where the word of God says otherwise.
Of course if human beings did take personal responsibility for conservation, charity towards the poor and widowed, and were fiscally responsible then small government would be all that was needed. Where does the Bible support small government for human beings in our present fallen state?
"...all of the equations in neoclassical economics are rubbish. The differential equations describe nothing. Economics is not about mathematics, it is about the human being." Sandeep Jaitly
OK, Stone. Tell me when how a person gets mad without cause. The insane like Mad Dog don't count.
Say I am standing in line at a public event for the porta potties. Say I am in line before some other guy. Say he wants to go in front of him. Say I say wait your turn. Say he hits me in the face because I don't let him go first. There is one example and it is true. Here is another Say I'm walking down the street and I have an ice cream cone. Then there is a poor kid and he wants my ice cream cone. He gets mad because he sees I'm driving a nice car and he is coveting it. He gets pissed off and takes my ice cream cone. The examples are endless. Say you have 2 daughters. One says the dress is hers and the other says it is hers. One gets mad and hits the other one. The one who got mad is not the owner of the dress.
You must be a homo then.
Comments (41 - 51) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest“Now therefore, let Pharaoh select a discerning and wise man, and set him over the land of Egypt. Let Pharaoh do this, and let him appoint officers over the land, to collect one-fifth of the produce of the land
#2. To: Godwinson (#0)
#3. To: A K A Stone (#1)
They already take more the 20 percent, and there is no famine. Everyone got to eat the food, not just the deadbeats.
#4. To: Godwinson (#3)
#5. To: A K A Stone (#4)
The Bible says you don't work you don't eat.
#6. To: A K A Stone (#2)
The NIV is not a good translation by the way.
#7. To: Skip Intro, A K A Stone (#6)
#8. To: Skip Intro (#6)
#9. To: Godwinson (#5)
The Bible says you don't work you don't eat.
#10. To: A K A Stone (#9)
(Edited)
#11. To: Godwinson (#10)
Socialism is the control of enterprise for the betterment of society
#12. To: A K A Stone (#1)
They already take more the 20 percent, and there is no famine. Everyone got to eat the food, not just the deadbeats.
#13. To: A K A Stone (#11)
I'm not part of an ant colony. I am an individual with individual desires and needs. Screw your group think.
#14. To: lucysmom (#12)
Why did God instruct Pharaoh to collect food and hold it for the people? If He were a free marketeer wouldn't he have instructed the wealthy to hold back part of their harvest and store it. Think of the profits the private sector could have made selling grain to a starving people. The productive would eat and the deadbeats would starve.
#15. To: Godwinson (#13)
So you reject the teachings of Jesus that we are a part of a community? That is what ecclessia means, a congregation - to come together for a common cause.
#16. To: A K A Stone (#11)
I am an individual with individual desires and needs.
#17. To: A K A Stone (#14)
I do have a problem with deadbeats who abuse the system. Most people on government assistance should be cut off.
#18. To: A K A Stone (#15)
Having the government threaten to lock you up if you don't give to deadbeats is another thing entirely.
#19. To: A K A Stone (#8)
Because the NIV calls Jesus a sinner.
#20. To: A K A Stone, lucysmom (#15)
Coming together voluntary to help each other out is one thing. Having the government threaten to lock you up if you don't give to deadbeats is another thing entirely.
#21. To: lucysmom, *Extended Clip Progressives* (#17)
Most people on government assistance are children.
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#22. To: hondo68 (#21)
(Edited)
Yeah, you commies like to start em off young.
#23. To: lucysmom (#18)
That doesn't happen outside your fevered imagination.
#24. To: Skip Intro (#19)
So I ask again: Are you proficient in translating Greek to English?
#25. To: A K A Stone (#24)
#26. To: A K A Stone, lucysmom (#24)
(Edited)
The NIV calls jesus a sinner.
#27. To: A K A Stone (#23)
Actually LM. The government does put people in jail that don't pay their taxes.
#28. To: Godwinson, A K A Stone (#26)
The NIV calls jesus a sinner.
#29. To: lucysmom (#28)
The NIV calls jesus a sinner.
#30. To: Skip Intro (#29)
Why getting mad with cause is not a sin is beyond my theological understanding.
#31. To: Godwinson (#0)
#32. To: diva betsy ross (#31)
God is the original conservative.
#33. To: Godwinson (#32)
That's funny you think God is your kind of conservative even in the face of scripture contradicting your view.
#34. To: Skip Intro (#29)
Why getting mad with cause is not a sin is beyond my theological understanding.
#35. To: lucysmom (#30)
According to Ephesians 4:26 getting angry is not a sin; Be angry, and do not sin: do not let the sun go down on your wrath
#36. To: Godwinson (#32)
(Edited)
#37. To: diva betsy ross (#36)
Scripture supports small government, personal responsbility ,conservation and fiscal responsibility- and charity given in the name of Jesus, to aid the poor and the widows.
#38. To: A K A Stone (#34)
#39. To: Skip Intro (#38)
OK, Stone. Tell me when how a person gets mad without cause.
#40. To: A K A Stone (#39)
Say I'm walking down the street and I have an ice cream cone.
.
.
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