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Status: Not Logged In; Sign In United States News See other United States News Articles Title: Spaceflights From Desert Depend on New Jobs Source: Bloomberg URL Source: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011- ... f-dead-depend-on-new-jobs.html Published: Jul 27, 2011 Author: Bloomberg Post Date: 2011-07-27 09:18:05 by go65 Keywords: None Views: 5324 Comments: 20 The frontier of commercial spaceflight, which opened when NASA’s shuttle program ended this month, is taking shape in an unfinished assembly of metal, glass and concrete that resembles a rust-colored stingray burrowed halfway into New Mexico’s desert. “Spaceport America” bills itself online as “the world’s first purpose-built commercial spaceport” and will be the official home of Virgin Galactic, billionaire Richard Branson’s venture that proposes to take tourists into suborbital space. It’s about 75 miles southwest of the Trinity atomic-bomb test site where the U.S. ushered in the nuclear age 66 years ago. It’s even closer to the mobile home of Florita Munoz in Rincon, New Mexico. Munoz, 69, says she has little regard for this latest attempt to enter a new era. The 4-year-old project has already cost her state, the 10th poorest in the U.S., $209 million in public money. It’s at least nine months behind schedule and its director says it won’t generate as many jobs as backers once claimed. Click for Full Text! Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 18. #1. To: jwpegler (#0) thought you would find this of interest, few proponents of private space flight replacing NASA seem to realize that private space companies such as virgin are completely dependent on public support to survive. go65  posted on  2011-07-27   9:18:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #2. To: go65, jwpegler (#1) I don't understand this delusional - other reality world - jwpegler and his fellow travelers on the so called right in America hold on to. They accept dogma over facts. They are people who say the New Deal was bad for America, yet I would not want to live in the America as it was before the New Deal. I don't get where they get their actual facts from - they have theories based on ideology not on science/numbers. jwpegler, I am sure you are a good person and I know I sound like I am attacking you but at some point I have to confront this world view you hold that is not based on real world evidence. jwpegler, to me you and your fellow travelers sound like Maoists from the Cultural Revolution era waving their little book where all the answers supposedly held and you react violently to any fact that contradicts this. Maybe it is the internet/talk radio distortions making me see this but when I hear that Republicans say a default is no big deal and it is fear mongering as if a default would do nothing is insane. That is Jim Jones kool-aid mentality. Godwinson  posted on  2011-07-27   12:20:13 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #5. To: Godwinson, go65, capitalist eric (#2) Prior to the start up culture taking hold in the late 70s / early 80s, a team a Xerox invented the basic under interface model that we've used over the last 30 years. It's known as WIMP (Windows, Icons, Menus, and Pointing Devices). They took it to Xerox management who rejected it out of hand. There wasn't any start up culture or venture capital firms to support start ups, so the actual people who invented WIMP never profited from it. Steve Jobs and Bill Bill Gates took WIMP and used it to build big companies from scratch that changed the world. Society needs renegades who are willing to risk all to buck the establishment and pursue their vision. There isn't any room for renegades in your world of centrally planned, government directed economies. Your vision of society leads to stagnation and misery. That's why it needs to be rejected out of hand. jwpegler  posted on  2011-07-27   15:04:57 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #7. To: jwpegler (#5) (Edited) Prior to the start up culture taking hold in the late 70s / early 80s, a team a Xerox invented the basic under interface model that we've used over the last 30 years. It's known as WIMP (Windows, Icons, Menus, and Pointing Devices). They took it to Xerox management who rejected it out of hand. There wasn't any start up culture or venture capital firms to support start ups, so the actual people who invented WIMP never profited from it. Steve Jobs and Bill Bill Gates took WIMP and used it to build big companies from scratch that changed the world. As usual,your facts are bit off. Xerox delivered a WIMP-based product called Star (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Star) in 1981 that didn't sell very well due high cost and poor performance. However, Bill Gates bought one. And he hired several of the early developers to join him at Microsoft to help copy the Xerox design. (Apple's Lisa was also based on Star). If you want to get really down in the weeds - the end result of Gates' efforts was Windows 1.0, which was a kludge, It wasn't until Gates signed a license with John Scully that gave him permission to copy the work Apple was doing with MacOS, and used it to develop Windows 3.0, that Windows finally took off. (See: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1593270100/tmo-20). Apple ended up suing Microsoft, claiming that they had only licensed Microsoft to use Apple elements in windows 1.0, a suit they eventually lost (Windows 1 didn't even include icons). If you read the history, you'll find that Gates absolutely loved the Mac (the internal Microsoft name was SAND - Steve's Amazing New Device). Gates envisioned Microsoft as a company that would deliver Mac software, and he tried to get Apple to license MacOS to run on 3rd party hardware, but he was rebuffed by Scully, so he went off and built Windows 3. And the rest is history. There isn't any room for renegades in your world of centrally planned, government directed economies. Your vision of society leads to stagnation and misery. That's why it needs to be rejected out of hand. My vision isn't all one or the other. My view is that there is a role for government in preventing monopolies, protecting the environment, ensuring free/fair competition, and protecting the rights of workers. go65  posted on  2011-07-27   15:27:02 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #9. To: go65 (#7) (Edited) Dude, WIMP was developed at Xerox in 1973. They finally decided to release Star as a specialty "office automation" computer 8 years later in 1981. Star wasn't designed or sold as a standalone system. It was sold as part of a larger "office" system for word processing and document management targeted at large corporations. By 1981 the general PC revolution was brewing and there was no room for that type of specialty device. My facts are correct. Xerox invented WIMP. The CEO rejected it. Apple and Microsoft made billions bringing it to market. Yes, there was some intermediate activities (like bringing Star to market), which happened too late for Xerox and has nothing to do with the lessons to be learned here. jwpegler  posted on  2011-07-27   15:46:46 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #10. To: jwpegler (#9) Dude, WIMP was developed at Xerox in 1973. Go back and read what he wrote. He said that STAR was developed in 1981 and that it was WIMP based. Not that WIMP was developed in 1981. war  posted on  2011-07-27   15:49:05 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #11. To: war (#10) (Edited) Go back and read what he wrote. He said that STAR was developed in 1981 and that it was WIMP based. Not that WIMP was developed in 1981. Let me explain it slowly. A couple of guys at Xerox invented WIMP in 1973. They took it to CEO who told them that they were out of their mind. 8 years later, Xerox finally released a specialty "computer system" based on WIMP. It was too late, because Apple had already released a general purpose personal computer based on WIMP (LISA). Apple took the WIMP concept and started the LISA project in 1978 -- to build a general purpose computer based on WIMP. LISA was released with limited success, but Apple learned from it and succeeded with the Mac. Then Microsoft released Windows. The establishment blew it. They lost a huge business opportunity to a couple of kids working in their garage. jwpegler  posted on  2011-07-27   15:56:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #13. To: jwpegler, war (#11) 8 years later, Xerox finally released a specialty "computer system" based on WIMP. It was too late, because Apple had already released a general purpose personal computer based on WIMP (LISA). Apple took the WIMP concept and started the LISA project in 1978 -- to build a general purpose computer based on WIMP. LISA was released with limited success, but Apple learned from it and succeeded with the Mac. Again, your facts are off. The Lisa was released in 1983, two years after the Star. Apple's Lisa developers had been working with Xerox's research team since the late 1970's. Many of Jobs' ideas for Apple's GUI game from the Xerox Alto, which Xerox demonstrated to Jobs in 1979. go65  posted on  2011-07-27   16:03:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #15. To: go65 (#13) (Edited) Ok, lets stop right here. I allowed you to take the conversation off track. My bad. The salient point is that a top down directed society stagnates. A society needs renegades who are willing to buck the established order to pursue their own vision. I gave a concrete example of this. People at Xerox did invent wimp and the management team did reject it. These are well known facts. Unfortunately, I allowed you to take the conversation off track with a bunch if details that are completely irrelevant to the point at hand. Whether the specialty Star system was released before or after the Lisa is not relevant. I remember the Lisa. I do not remember the Star, and neither do you (you Googled wimp and found the Star). What is relevant is that it took Xerox 8 years to decide to build a product based on their own inventions. This is why Xerox didn't own the bulk of the computer industry. jwpegler  posted on  2011-07-27   16:52:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #16. To: jwpegler (#15) The salient point is that a top down directed society stagnants. A society needs renegades who are willing to buck the established order to pursue their own vision. Agreed. I gave a concrete example of this. People at Xerox did invent wimp and the management team did reject it. These are well known facts. Yes, companies make mistakes. But again, I don't buy your argument that the only possible societies are communist and anarchist. Even you agree there's a role for government in areas such as infrastructure and health care, yet anytime anyone else talks about what they see as a proper role for government, you accuse them of supporting a top-down directed society. I'll remind you again that your beloved Singapore has a top-down directed healthcare system. go65  posted on  2011-07-27   17:01:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #17. To: go65 (#16) (Edited) I am certainly not equating you with Gooberson. I am not an anarchist. At the local level, I am a strong proponent of infrastructure spending. I often get frustrated in Seattle because there are eco-leftists that want to halt progress and move "back" to some utopian agrarian society that never really existed. When I was growing up in Michigan, Democrats wanted to build roads. Now a lot of them what to tear roads down. In 2002 the GOP passed the largest federal infrastructure budget the world has ever seen. Much of it was pork. When Omaba was elected, his stimulus should have been mostly about infrastructure . Instead, it focused on temporarily keeping state government employees in their jobs. The entire D.C. establishment is corrupt, so I am not willing to give them a penny more for anything. I've been following this nonsense since 1980. Right now, I've had it. Yes, I want to build roads but only after they stop spending on things that won't move us forward. Until they do that, yes I will be a temporary anarchist jwpegler  posted on  2011-07-27   17:23:44 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #18. To: jwpegler (#17) When Omaba was elected, his stimulus should have been mostly about infrastructure . Instead, it focused on temporarily keeping state government employees in their jobs. and tax cuts, you keep ignoring that one. Yes, I want to build roads but only after they stop spending on things that won't move us forward. The Ryan framework cuts road spending from $52 billion to $35 billion a year. How are we supposed to compete against the rest of the world when the Republicans see nothing wrong with crumbling infrastructure so long as we maintain tax cuts on income over $500k a year? go65  posted on  2011-07-27   20:17:23 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   Replies to Comment # 18. #19. To: go65 (#18) The 2009 stimulus package: $288 billion in tax cuts. $224 billion in extended unemployment benefits, education and health care. $275 billion for job creation using federal contracts, grants and loans. Notice where the largest amount went to? Notice, also, that it provided exactly zero stimulus. Skip Intro  posted on  2011-07-27 22:04:22 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   End Trace Mode for Comment # 18. Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest

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