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Health/Medical
See other Health/Medical Articles

Title: Survey: Physicians Prefer Medicare to Private Plans
Source: Internal Medicine News
URL Source: http://www.internalmedicinenews.com ... -private-plans/9449dfc977.html
Published: Mar 01, 2001
Author: ERIK GOLDMAN
Post Date: 2011-07-14 09:22:35 by lucysmom
Keywords: What You Think You Know, Ain
Views: 39610
Comments: 66

DENVER — Physicians may not be enamored of Medicare, but they like it better than private insurance plans, according to a survey by the Medical Group Management Association.

In MGMA's Payer Performance Study—covering more than 1,700 group practices—physician groups ranked Medicare Part B well ahead of six large private insurers in terms of overall satisfaction. The survey asked members of MGMA to rank seven of the largest payers (Medicare Part B, UnitedHealthcare, Aetna, Cigna, Humana, Coventry, and Anthem) on payer communications, provider credentialing, contract negotiation, payment processing, systems transparency, and overall satisfaction.

Medicare led the pack with a mean aggregate satisfaction score of 3.59 on a 6-point scale. Aetna took second place with a score of 3.14. The big loser? UnitedHealthcare, with a score of 2.45.

Click for Full Text!

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#8. To: lucysmom (#1)

A friend's doctor told her that Medicare actually pays better than Blue Shield.

One of my closest friends packed up his family, and moved out of the country.

He and his wife are both doctors. They decided they weren't going to put with the ob@m@-c@re SOCIALIST system.

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
-- Joseph Goebbels --

The State can no longer hide the consequences of their 100-year lie. VERY interesting times are ahead.

Capitalist Eric  posted on  2011-07-14   17:35:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Capitalist Eric (#8)

Maybe you could join them.

Von Mises associates any Government involvement in markets as "Socialism" , to mislead people into thinking Government is the enemy , when infact empire is the enemy and empire is Privatized.

lucysmom  posted on  2011-07-14   21:31:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: lucysmom (#9)

You first.

You're a fucking SOCIALIST.

I'm sure there are LOTS of countries that'd love to have a parasite like you: Cuba, Norway, France, China... oh, forget that last one... they SHOOT parasites.

Then again, maybe you *should* go. You're a fucking waste of flesh, so why don't you just die?

It used to be the leftists that had bumper-stickers that said things like "Question Authority.' Today they follow Orwells' mottos:

War is peace.

Freedom is slavery.

Ignorance is strength.

They blindly LOVE Big Brother. They believe competition, pride & profiting from ones labor, are evil things to be banished.

Stephen King once observed, "The beauty of religion mania is that it has the power to explain everything... [and] …logic can be happily tossed out the window.

This describes socialists. They will ignore logic and "common sense." They will ignore REALITY.

Because THEY are religious zealots...

Their God... is the STATE.

Capitalist Eric  posted on  2011-07-14   21:46:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Capitalist Eric (#10)

I'm sure there are LOTS of countries that'd love to have a parasite like you: Cuba

Cuba doesn't put up with parasites. You work or you starve. ditto for the old Soviet Union, China, Cambodia, etc. It's only the decadent Europeans and Americans that allow lazy able bodied people to suck the lifeblood out of society.


Any fourth grade history student knows socialism has failed in every country, at every time in history -- Vladimir Putin

jwpegler  posted on  2011-07-14   21:48:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: jwpegler (#11)

Cuba doesn't put up with parasites. You work or you starve. ditto for the old Soviet Union, China, Cambodia, etc. It's only the decadent Europeans and Americans that allow lazy able bodied people to suck the lifeblood out of society.

I guess all that talk about Cuba being a communist country is more of that GOP BS. According to your description they fit that capitalist ideal of 'survival of the fittest' to a 'T'.

mininggold  posted on  2011-07-14   22:01:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: mininggold (#12)

I guess all that talk about Cuba being a communist country is more of that GOP BS

No. Communist countries forced people to work at the barrel of a gun. Ask anyone who lived in one.


Any fourth grade history student knows socialism has failed in every country, at every time in history -- Vladimir Putin

jwpegler  posted on  2011-07-14   22:17:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: jwpegler (#13)

No. Communist countries forced people to work at the barrel of a gun. Ask anyone who lived in one.

You are mixing up communist and a dictatorship, while they aren't necessarily exclusive neither are they automatically inclusive either.

mininggold  posted on  2011-07-14   23:09:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: mininggold (#14)

You are mixing up communist and a dictatorship

They are synonyms.

A K A Stone  posted on  2011-07-14   23:11:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: A K A Stone (#15)

They are synonyms.

Argentina was a dictatorship that was not communist.

mininggold  posted on  2011-07-14   23:17:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: mininggold (#16)

Every communist country is a dictatorship. Every dictatorship isn't communist. So I guess they aren't complete synonyms.

A K A Stone  posted on  2011-07-14   23:19:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Capitalist Eric, A K A Stone (#10)

Then again, maybe you *should* go. You're a fucking waste of flesh, so why don't you just die?

'Morning Stone.

Perhaps you would explain why you banned war and allow posters who write stuff like the above to stay.

Von Mises associates any Government involvement in markets as "Socialism" , to mislead people into thinking Government is the enemy , when infact empire is the enemy and empire is Privatized.

lucysmom  posted on  2011-07-15   9:59:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Capitalist Eric (#10)

You're a fucking SOCIALIST.

I'm sure there are LOTS of countries that'd love to have a parasite like you: Cuba, Norway, France, China... oh, forget that last one... they SHOOT parasites.

Then again, maybe you *should* go. You're a fucking waste of flesh, so why don't you just die?

Again, you expose yourself as an angry, bitter man lacking in social skills.

Von Mises associates any Government involvement in markets as "Socialism" , to mislead people into thinking Government is the enemy , when infact empire is the enemy and empire is Privatized.

lucysmom  posted on  2011-07-15   10:08:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: mininggold, Capitalist Eric (#14)

You are mixing up communist and a dictatorship, while they aren't necessarily exclusive neither are they automatically inclusive either.

Milton Friedman's “Chicago Boys” proved that capitalism can get along just fine with a brutal dictator. You'd think some one as smart as CE would know that Capitalism is an economic system, not a political system (I guess they don't teach that in economics schools).

Von Mises associates any Government involvement in markets as "Socialism" , to mislead people into thinking Government is the enemy , when infact empire is the enemy and empire is Privatized.

lucysmom  posted on  2011-07-15   10:20:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: A K A Stone (#15)

They are synonyms.

No, they are not. One is an economic system, the other is a political system.

Hitler's Germany is an example of a Capitalist dictatorship; and reading the posts of capitalism's proponents on this forum, the preferred model.

Von Mises associates any Government involvement in markets as "Socialism" , to mislead people into thinking Government is the enemy , when infact empire is the enemy and empire is Privatized.

lucysmom  posted on  2011-07-15   10:24:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: mininggold (#16)

Argentina was a dictatorship that was not communist

Argentina was an authoritarian regime. All of the Communist countries were totalitarian regimes, as was Nazi Germany.

There is a huge difference between authoritarian countries and totalitarian countries.


Any fourth grade history student knows socialism has failed in every country, at every time in history -- Vladimir Putin

jwpegler  posted on  2011-07-15   10:29:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: lucysmom (#21) (Edited)

Hitler's Germany is an example of a Capitalist dictatorship

Wrong again.

Communist -- government kills the goose that lays the golden egg

Fascist -- government controls the goose that lays the golden egg and makes it work for state purposes

Capitalist -- government leaves the goose alone


Any fourth grade history student knows socialism has failed in every country, at every time in history -- Vladimir Putin

jwpegler  posted on  2011-07-15   10:32:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: jwpegler (#22)

Argentina was an authoritarian regime. All of the Communist countries were totalitarian regimes, as was Nazi Germany.

There is a huge difference between authoritarian countries and totalitarian countries.

Argentina has been all of the above.

mininggold  posted on  2011-07-15   10:34:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: jwpegler (#23) (Edited)

Wrong again.

Communist -- government kills the goose that lays the golden egg

Fascist -- government controls the goose that lays the golden egg and makes it work for state purposes

Capitalist -- government leaves the goose alone

Again you don't know your definitions. Capitalism is an economic system although it does desire to be unregulated so it can do it's dirty deeds with impunity. But China is capitalist yet also manages to be a communist dictatorship.

Why don't you try to find the word 'capitalism' in our constitution.

mininggold  posted on  2011-07-15   10:42:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: mininggold (#24) (Edited)

Peron was definitely an admirer of Mussolini, but he was never able to establish the type of all encompassing regime that the Fascists, Nazis, and Communists did. Peron was a typical authoritarian dictator. The term Authoritarian refers to the structure of government rather than society.

Totalitarianism is fundamentally different. Totalitarianism tries to control all aspects society including economy, education, art, science, private life and the morals of citizens.

Fascism: Everything within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state -- Benito Mussolini


Any fourth grade history student knows socialism has failed in every country, at every time in history -- Vladimir Putin

jwpegler  posted on  2011-07-15   10:48:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: jwpegler (#23)

Fascist -- government controls the goose that lays the golden egg and makes it work for state purposes

Do you think Fascism would have enjoyed the enthusiastic support of American businessmen if it didn't uphold private property rights, private profits, and the existence of a market economy?

Von Mises associates any Government involvement in markets as "Socialism" , to mislead people into thinking Government is the enemy , when infact empire is the enemy and empire is Privatized.

lucysmom  posted on  2011-07-15   10:49:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: mininggold (#25) (Edited)

China is capitalist yet also manages to be a communist dictatorship

Wrong again.

China is no longer a communist dictatorship. China has evolved into something akin to Chile under Pinochet -- a market system with authoritarian political control. China's goal is to become a giant Singapore.

Yes, they still use the term "Communist Party", but it's something very different than the Communist Parties of the 20th century.


Any fourth grade history student knows socialism has failed in every country, at every time in history -- Vladimir Putin

jwpegler  posted on  2011-07-15   10:51:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: jwpegler (#26)

Peron was definitely an admirer of Mussolini, but he was never able to establishment the type of all encompassing regime that the Fascists, Nazis, and Communists did. Peron was a typical authoritarian dictator. The term Authoritarian refers to the structure of government rather than society.

You do know there was a military coup down there in the late sixties that set up a strict dictatorship for about ten years.

mininggold  posted on  2011-07-15   10:51:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: mininggold (#29) (Edited)

set up a strict dictatorship

Your not listening again, as usual.

There are a lot of different kinds of dictatorships. Latin American dictatorships were authoritarian. Fascist, Nazi, and Communist dictatorships were totalitarian.

Authoritarian dictatorships don't try to change human nature so that people will be happy to serve the state. Totalitarian dictatorships did try to do this.


Any fourth grade history student knows socialism has failed in every country, at every time in history -- Vladimir Putin

jwpegler  posted on  2011-07-15   10:55:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: jwpegler (#28)

China is no longer a communist dictatorship. China has evolved into something akin to Chile under Pinochet -- market system with authoritarian political control. China's goal is to become a giant Singapore.

Thanks.... you just cited the example that proves that not all communist practicing countries must be total dictatorships.

mininggold  posted on  2011-07-15   10:59:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: jwpegler (#30)

Your not listening again, as usual.

I don't listen avidly to posters who set them selves up as 'dictators' while not even knowing basic definitions.

mininggold  posted on  2011-07-15   11:01:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: mininggold (#25) (Edited)

Why don't you try to find the word 'capitalism' in our constitution.

Why don't you try to find the word 'democracy' in our Constitution.


Any fourth grade history student knows socialism has failed in every country, at every time in history -- Vladimir Putin

jwpegler  posted on  2011-07-15   11:02:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: mininggold (#32)

I don't listen avidly to posters...

So stop talking to me.


Any fourth grade history student knows socialism has failed in every country, at every time in history -- Vladimir Putin

jwpegler  posted on  2011-07-15   11:04:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: mininggold (#31)

Thanks.... you just cited the example that proves that not all communist practicing countries must be total dictatorships.

That's not what I said, and you're bozoed. Loser.


Any fourth grade history student knows socialism has failed in every country, at every time in history -- Vladimir Putin

jwpegler  posted on  2011-07-15   11:05:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: jwpegler (#35)

That's not what I said, and you're bozoed. Loser.

It sure was, since you are the only one in the big wide world who has claimed China is not a communist country. First bozo in makes YOU the loser.

mininggold  posted on  2011-07-15   11:20:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: jwpegler (#33)

Why don't you try to find the word 'democracy' in our Constitution.

Because a Representative Republic and a Democracy are entirely different? I bet you didn't know that.

Capitalists like to obfuscate by calling the US a democracy though, because it's their preferred political system.

mininggold  posted on  2011-07-15   11:24:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: lucysmom (#7)

Gee, I wonder why its insolvent....(eyes rolling)

I don't know - maybe George the lesser had a little to do with it.

Yep. And thats why I voted against the GOP in 06.

Some of us vote based on 'reality'. Others just vote straight party line, and thereby demonstrate a level of stupidity thats staggering when you think about it.

Proxy IP's are amusing.....lmao

Badeye  posted on  2011-07-15   11:59:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: mininggold (#37)

obfuscate

If you ... don't use exclamation points --- you should't be typeing ! Commas - semicolons are for girlie boys !

BorisY  posted on  2011-07-15   12:30:11 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Badeye (#38)

Others just vote straight party line, and thereby demonstrate a level of stupidity thats staggering when you think about it.

When Republicans decided they owed more allegiance to Grover Norquist than to constituents, I stopped voting Republican.

Von Mises associates any Government involvement in markets as "Socialism" , to mislead people into thinking Government is the enemy , when infact empire is the enemy and empire is Privatized.

lucysmom  posted on  2011-07-15   12:41:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: lucysmom, A K A Stone (#21)

Hitler's Germany is an example of a Capitalist dictatorship;

You make it too easy... LOL.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi

The self-identification term, used by exponents of the ideology past and present is National Socialism and adherents describe themselves as National Socialists. For instance the best known organisation expousing this system, the German party led by Adolf Hitler was called the National Socialist German Workers' Party (German abbreviation: NSDAP). Similarly, the second volume of Mein Kampf is entitled The National Socialist Movement.[18] According to Joseph Goebbels in an official exposition of the ideology, the logic behind the synthesis of Nationalism and Socialism as represented in the name, was to "counter the Internationalism of Marxism with the nationalism of a German Socialism".[19]

Thanks for playing, loonymom/ming.

It used to be the leftists that had bumper-stickers that said things like "Question Authority.' Today they follow Orwells' mottos:

War is peace.

Freedom is slavery.

Ignorance is strength.

They blindly LOVE Big Brother. They believe competition, pride & profiting from ones labor, are evil things to be banished.

Stephen King once observed, "The beauty of religion mania is that it has the power to explain everything... [and] …logic can be happily tossed out the window.

This describes socialists. They will ignore logic and "common sense." They will ignore REALITY.

Because THEY are religious zealots...

Their God... is the STATE.

Capitalist Eric  posted on  2011-07-15   12:49:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: Capitalist Eric (#41)

Socialism is a political system. Capitalism is an economic system. German businesses accepted foreign capital right up to and even during the war.

Thanks for playing

mininggold  posted on  2011-07-15   12:53:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: Capitalist Eric (#41)

You make it too easy... LOL.

Using your logic, that would make The People's Republic of China, Republican.

Von Mises associates any Government involvement in markets as "Socialism" , to mislead people into thinking Government is the enemy , when infact empire is the enemy and empire is Privatized.

lucysmom  posted on  2011-07-15   12:55:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: lucysmom (#43)

Using your logic, that would make The People's Republic of China, Republican.

He might be right.

mininggold  posted on  2011-07-15   13:06:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: lucysmom, A K A Stone, Rudgear, CZ82, jwpegler, hondo68, socalv8 (#19)

Again, you expose yourself as an angry, bitter man lacking in social skills.

Coming from a socialist parasite like you, I guess my only answer would be "thank you!"

*PING* to everyone else... a reminder of a good speech, by Ted Nugent:

I'm a Bad American - this pretty much sums it up for me.

I like big trucks, big boats, big houses, and naturally, pretty women.

I believe the money I make belongs to me and my family, not some midlevel governmental functionary with a bad comb-over who wants to give it away to crack addicts squirting out babies.

I don't care about appearing compassionate.

I think playing with toy guns doesn't make you a killer. I believe ignoring your kids and giving them Prozac might.

I think I'm doing better than the homeless.

I don't think being a minority makes you noble or victimized.

I have the right not to be tolerant of others because they are different, weird or make me mad.

This is my life to live, and not necessarily up to others expectations.

I know what SEX is and there are not varying degrees of it.

I don't celebrate Kwanzaa. But if you want to that's fine; I just don't feel like everyone else should have to.

I believe that if you are selling me a Dairy Queen shake, a pack of cigarettes, or hotel room you do it in English.

As of matter of fact, if you are an American citizen you should speak English.

My uncles and forefathers shouldn't have had to die in vain so you can leave the countries you were born in to come disrespect ours, and make us bend to your will. Get over it.

I think the cops have every right to shoot your sorry butt if you're running from them after they tell you to stop. If you can't understand the word 'freeze' or 'stop' in English, see the previous line.

I don't use the excuse "it's for the children" as a shield for unpopular opinions or actions.

I know how to count votes and I feel much safer letting a machine with no political affiliation do a recount when needed.

I know what the definition of lying is, and it isn't based on the word "is"- ever.

I don't think just because you were not born in this country, you qualify for any special loan programs, gov't sponsored bank loans, etc., so you can open a hotel, 7-Eleven, trinket shop, or anything else, while the indigenous peoples can't get past a high school education because they can't afford it.

I didn't take the initiative in inventing the Internet.

I thought the Taco Bell dog was funny.

I want them to bring back safe and sane fireworks.

I believe noone ever died because of something Ozzy Osbourne,Ice-T or Marilyn Manson sang, but that doesn't mean I want to listen to that crap from someone else's car when I'm stopped at a red light. But I respect your right to.

I think that being a student doesn't give you any more enlightenment than working at Blockbuster or Jack In The Box.

I don't want to eat or drink anything with the words light, lite or fat-free on the package.

Our soldiers did not go to some foreign country and risk their lives in vain and defend our Constitution so that decades later you can tell me it's a living document ever changing and is open to interpretation. The guys who wrote it were light years ahead of anyone today, and they meant what they said - now leave the document alone, or there's going to be trouble.

I don't hate the rich.

I help the poor.

I know wrestling is fake.

I've never owned, or was a slave, and a large percentage of our forefathers weren't wealthy enough to own one either. Please stop blaming me because some prior white people were idiots - and remember, tons of white, Indian, Chinese, and other races have been enslaved too - it was wrong for every one of them.

I believe a self-righteous liberal Democrat with a cause is more dangerous than a Hell's Angel with an attitude.

I want to know exactly which church is it where the "Reverend" Jessie Jackson preaches; and, what exactly is his job function.

I own a gun, you can own a gun, and any red blooded American should be allowed to own a gun, but if you use it in a crime, then you will serve the time.

I think Bill Gates has every right to keep every penny he made and should continue to make more. If it makes you mad, then invent the next operating system that's better and put your name on the building. Ask your buddy that invented the Internet to help you.

I don't believe in hate crime legislation. Even suggesting it makes me mad. You're telling me that someone who is a minority, gay, disabled, another nationality, or otherwise different from the mainstream of this country has more value as a human being that I do as a white male. If someone kills anyone, I'd say that it's a hate crime.

We don't need more laws! Let's enforce the ones we already have.

I think turkey bacon, turkey beef, turkey fake anything stinks.

I believe that it doesn't take a village to raise a child-it takes a parent with the guts to stand up to the kid and spank his butt and say "NO!"when it's necessary to do so.

I'll admit that the only movie that ever made me cry was Ole Yeller.

I didn't realize Dr. Seuss was a genius until I had a kid.

I will not be frowned upon or be looked down upon or be made to keep silent because I have these beliefs and opinions. I thought this country allowed me that right.

I will not conform or compromise just to keep from hurting somebody's feelings.

I'm neither angry nor disenfranchised, no matter how desperately the mainstream media would like the world to believe otherwise.

Yes, I guess by some people's definition, I may be a bad American. But that's tough.

Ted Nugent

It used to be the leftists that had bumper-stickers that said things like "Question Authority.' Today they follow Orwells' mottos:

War is peace.

Freedom is slavery.

Ignorance is strength.

They blindly LOVE Big Brother. They believe competition, pride & profiting from ones labor, are evil things to be banished.

Stephen King once observed, "The beauty of religion mania is that it has the power to explain everything... [and] …logic can be happily tossed out the window.

This describes socialists. They will ignore logic and "common sense." They will ignore REALITY.

Because THEY are religious zealots...

Their God... is the STATE.

Capitalist Eric  posted on  2011-07-15   13:09:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: Capitalist Eric (#45)

I put loonymom/mini-intellect on my content filter this morning. It's the first time I blocked anyone. I hate to do it. But I just can't take her idiocy any longer.


Any fourth grade history student knows socialism has failed in every country, at every time in history -- Vladimir Putin

jwpegler  posted on  2011-07-15   13:23:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: Capitalist Eric (#45)

Ted Nugent

Ted Nugent, the ex hippy, admitted wanton sex addict. Another brain full of scars from STDs and too loud music. LOLOL

mininggold  posted on  2011-07-15   13:24:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: lucysmom (#43)

Using your logic, that would make The People's Republic of China, Republican.

Bullshit. Unlike you, I posted a citation, which is only one of many.

I could post a variety of other sources, which will all tell you the same thing: Nazi Germany was a SOCIALIST country. Nazi was short for the National Socialist German Workers Party.

How do you NOT understand this?

How many references need I post, before you DO get it?

You've been caught in either another lie, or exposed for being grossly ignorant. Which is it?

It used to be the leftists that had bumper-stickers that said things like "Question Authority.' Today they follow Orwells' mottos:

War is peace.

Freedom is slavery.

Ignorance is strength.

They blindly LOVE Big Brother. They believe competition, pride & profiting from ones labor, are evil things to be banished.

Stephen King once observed, "The beauty of religion mania is that it has the power to explain everything... [and] …logic can be happily tossed out the window.

This describes socialists. They will ignore logic and "common sense." They will ignore REALITY.

Because THEY are religious zealots...

Their God... is the STATE.

Capitalist Eric  posted on  2011-07-15   13:55:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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