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Title: LET’S END THIS DEBT CEILING DEBATE WITH A $1 OZ. $1T COIN
Source:
Pragmatic Capitalism
URL Source: http://pragcap.com/lets-end-this-de ... ing-debate-with-a-1-oz-1t-coin
Published: Jul 7, 2011
Author: Cullen Roche
Post Date: 2011-07-09 00:54:08 by lucysmom
Keywords: Debt Ceiling, Treasury vs Congress
Views: 59361
Comments: 102
A reader points out a very interesting loophole in the debt ceiling debate that would give the US Treasury the ability to tell the US Congress to take their fearmongering and shove it you know where. Reader “Beowulf” notes: “No, Tsy isn’t authorized to just “print” money, the Federal Reserve Act gives that power to the Fed, However, the Coinage Act grants the Secretary of the Treasury rather broad coin seigniorage authority. Geithner could sidestep the debt ceiling this afternoon by ordering the West Point Mint to coin a 1 oz. $ 1 trillion coin. Tsy can then present the jumbo coins at the NY Fed to buy back $1 trillion in Fed-held debt (the Fed has to accept it, a creditor can’t refuse legal tender paid in to settle a debt): (h) The coins issued under this title shall be legal tender… (k) The Secretary may mint and issue platinum bullion coins and proof platinum coins in accordance with such specifications, designs, varieties, quantities, denominations, and inscriptions as the Secretary, in the Secretary’s discretion, may prescribe from time to time.” The simple threat of doing this would end this debate right here and right now. It’s time for Congress to stop playing Russian roulette with the US economy. If you want to take a stand on spending then do so before you pass legislation that causes us to run up into the debt ceiling. Don’t use some phony law to try to scare people into thinking that we are Greece (something that’s entirely impossible anyhow).
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#13. To: hondo68 (#11)
I don't think that's how we got here. The discussion following the linked article is interesting, I recommend reading it.
Von Mises associates any Government involvement in markets as "Socialism" , to mislead people into thinking Government is the enemy , when infact empire is the enemy and empire is Privatized.
It's no different than running the printing presses at the US Treasury. Your capitalist 'free' market buddies would disagree. As they consider themselves the collateral.
OMG! You libTURDS are so stoopid that it still amazes me! YOU, (a gibbering libTURD FOOL), would just do what the feral gooberment has been doing and that got us into trouble you gibbering MORON. You "think" that just calling something worth some value will fix this situation you gibbering moron? It's how we got here in the first place fool. FIAT "money" has absolutely ZERO intrinsic value. There is ZERO "collateral" backing it up. Actual money, (commodity based money, ie PMs/Ae/Ar/Au), has intrinsic VALUE, and IS the ONLY "money" that is allowed by the US Constitution. (Not that THAT means squat to a libTURD fool like YOU.) SHOW us ALL where on ANY current feral gooberment fiat specie "note" there is a statement of a base COLLATERAL to it's "value" you gibbering moron. Between YOU and whinny Old I can feel the "smartness" being drained from the universe when you two MORONS "talk". You two are proof that you don't need to have even a basic mental ability to keep on living.
Spoiled, stupid and ignorant, brain dead phuckwads, libTURD fools, tools, and idiots, are the real sickness; the messiah "king" obammy and his regime are only the symptoms.
I've explained this many times, but you are too stupid to understand. During the 19th century the U.S. Government enforced a bi-metals standards with fixed exchange rates between gold and silver. The bi- metals standard was created to favor silver interests. Of course, it created boom and bust cycles, just like the Federal Reserve's fiat money, and just like all political manipulation of the money supply does. Unfortunately, the lunatic left learned the wrong lesson, as they always do. The right lesson is that government manipulation of the money supply to favor political interests is a fundamental problem that has to be eradicated.
So both systems create booms and busts. That's the whole purpose of the shark's periodically thinning the herd and cashing out at the same time. Unless your magical thinking leads you to believe that money just goes up in smoke.
You are not understanding again, as usual. POLITICAL MANIPULATION of the money supply causes boom and bust cycle. As Nobel Laureate Fredrich Hayek pointed out several decades ago, the real answer is to get government out of the money business altogether. We have the technology to make competing currencies a reality today. That's what we need to do.
POLITICAL MANIPULATION of the money supply causes boom and bust cycle. As Nobel Laureate Fredrich Hayek pointed out several decades ago, the real answer is to get government out of the money business altogether. No it's the manipulation of the economy by various components of the financial sector often combined with certain political allies usually in the form of legislators that causes booms and busts. The gov periodically tries to regulate it out of existence but so far has not been successful, and probably always will fail. The government is constitutionally mandated to provide in one way or another a system of currency.
As a country, we've been there, done that. The system had problems, we don't do that anymore. That being said, there are local currencies.
Von Mises associates any Government involvement in markets as "Socialism" , to mislead people into thinking Government is the enemy , when infact empire is the enemy and empire is Privatized.
no one admits the social contracts between government and local unions; yet, this is the entire heart of America's downfall for budgets, not just because of a pay grade and benefit package for each and every employee in government. Here is a plan that you don't here about ANYWHERE. Eliminate the current pay schedules of GS-1 to GS-18 federal employees. Downgrade the same package from 2% at the bottom of the tier group to 20% at the top of the tier group. It saves the federal budget; it saves America; these are federal employees, the largest organization of gangsters from around the world.
Do you really think they can compete with those located on Wall Street?
The Obama Federal Reserve runs Wall Street. When union BO speaks they jump. WS can't convince the rubes that hO's anything but bad economic news, so the markets jump DOWN.
Obama's watch stopped on 24 May 2008, but he's been too busy smoking crack to notice.
The Corps will just jump to another fifth world country where they can practice their utopian form of capitalism until the natives again wise up. It's the pubs who are stalling on the debt ceiling causing the current problem. They need to proudly take responsibility.
"That is usually what happens when a bus full of gasoline is rolling down a road and about to go off a cliff. What else can you call it? THERE ARE NO JOBS. THERE WILL BE NO JOBS. Remember when Madoff was discovered to be a ponzi. On the message boards the first questions asked by many people were "Where is the money?" No one could comprehend that a 56 Billion dollar fund had NO MONEY. They thought he had hid most of it. They could not comprehend the simplicity of the math of a ponzi and how it WORKS. You see.....things that appear very complex to the outside world of a ponzi are usually relatively elemental. Its just simple math..... There was ZERO money. NADA! NONE! Bernie simply maintained his vast yearly returns by paying out to the "lucky" ones that redeemed before the unlucky lower bigger part of his pyramid.....until he ran out of money."
And there still are many more out there similiarly stealing with the full blessing of Wall Street.
The Only way the Top 50 000 are getting richer. Warren Buffett becomes the Swedish Match King. Watch. "the age of economic growth is over. To cope with declining resources, and an eco-system tilting toward a death-spiral, we don't need more growth. We need to shrink our economies. They call it "de-growth."
No different than Social Security.
You are too funny. The Madoff's of the world are what made Social Security neccessary. After the last four years will anyone ever trust Wall Street again?
WHOAAA there pardner. SS is completely solvent and will be for at least 20 more years...
The world's Madoffs want to get their hands on all that SS money.
Von Mises associates any Government involvement in markets as "Socialism" , to mislead people into thinking Government is the enemy , when infact empire is the enemy and empire is Privatized.
The world's Madoffs want to get their hands on all that money. fixed it for ya. The parasite's only limit is the death of the host....;}
Crazy is raising the debt limit. The rationalizations for doing so are very similiar to a drunk's reasoning for demanding he be given another bottle of Jack Daniels.
Proxy IP's are amusing.....lmao
Wrong. Social Security started running an annual deficit this year and will continue to do so as the baby boomers flood into the system. It's broke.
No it's not broke, it has a $2.6 trillion dollar surplus. (wouldn't Wall Street high rollers love to get their hands on that! What percentage do you think they'd take in bonuses?)
Von Mises associates any Government involvement in markets as "Socialism" , to mislead people into thinking Government is the enemy , when infact empire is the enemy and empire is Privatized.
Not hanging out with drunks, I wouldn't know what that might be. What I do know is that if we don't pay our bills, we've broken our word.
Von Mises associates any Government involvement in markets as "Socialism" , to mislead people into thinking Government is the enemy , when infact empire is the enemy and empire is Privatized.
Your brain has wandered off to Fantasy Land once again. What a surprise.
Right. Raygun/Greenspan SS/FICA tax. All of which was taken and replaced with IOU's. You or I did that we'd be put under the jail... For 30 years. How much longer do we wait for Reagan's Shining City on the Hill....8D
Your brain has wandered off to Fantasy Land once again. What a surprise. FOX NEws not very entertaining this AM, eh jw? ;} # Get more discussion results # Fixing Social Security – Permanently « US Public Policy / John ... uspublicpolicy.com/johnkoraska/blog/?p=19 - Cached Oct 19, 2010 – The huge cost increases of paying Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid ... The surplus FICA cash is replaced by US Treasury IOUs and put in the Trust Funds. ... The 1983 Greenspan commission on Social Security reforms resulted in Ronald Reagan raising: FICA OASDI tax rates, taxable wage base, ... # Paul Ryan's Killing of Social Security and Medicare mondaymorningeconomist.com/pualryan.html - Cached The GOP has hated Social Security and Medicare from day one, they just know ... fund ... is no reserve at all' [because it contains nothing but government IOUs], ... courtesy of Reagan and Greenspan raising the payroll deductions to SSA and ... To the employer who ponies up half of the FICA, Social security and ... #
Raising the debt ceiling doesn't pay our bills. It only allows this administration to continue to write BAD CHECKS, further excerbating the debt crisis we already face. And it will in fact 'break the word' to American Taxpayers...not that you on the Left give a rats ass about THAT. Finally, I'm sure you are very familiar with drunks goofy. I don't believe anyone could suffer you without being drunk first.
Proxy IP's are amusing.....lmao
You need to do more research. And it will in fact 'break the word' to American Taxpayers... Rather the Republican politicians word to Grover Norquist.
Von Mises associates any Government involvement in markets as "Socialism" , to mislead people into thinking Government is the enemy , when infact empire is the enemy and empire is Privatized.
You are a complete moron.
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.” The State can no longer hide the consequences of their 100-year lie. VERY interesting times are ahead.
More of your Aspergers symptoms. Since there are drugs that will make you seem a bit more normal I suggest you see a doc, but in the meantime you really are getting to be booooorrrrring with your totally predictable routine.
See, this is why I knew we were fucked from Raygun's Election: # LIBRADEX ** Why the SS Trust Fund is meaningless www.libradex.com/viewArticle.aspx?id=8 - Cached So if SS ran a $100 billion surplus, Congress spends the $100 billion and ... But that means the Treasury has that fewer dollars to spend on ... and we owed $300 billion to SS/Medicare...you guessed it, we'd have a $300 billion deficit. ... Å8; # Social Security's Effect On The Treasury: Why We Are “Effed” : The ... blog.ml-implode.com/.../social-securitys-effect-on-the-treasury-why... - Cached Dec 8, 2010 – These are simply payments to the SS bureau as “interest owed” on SS's Treasury securities (these are what are referred to every time you ... And that People don't get what Ponzi's are. No one is hiding ANY money!!! They're hiding the ACCUNTING of that money as it DISAPPEARS. We've been broke since 1987... And now we're INSOLVENT.
Sooner or later the lovers of freedom get around to "STFU".
Von Mises associates any Government involvement in markets as "Socialism" , to mislead people into thinking Government is the enemy , when infact empire is the enemy and empire is Privatized.
Hey, whiningold/loonymom, what are your qualifications to diagnose Aspergers? Or is it just a reflexive device used to avoid debate? You and your 'shadow' are always posting in tandem.
war has to do something for entertainment. The voices in his head aren't speaking to him and his imaginary friends have found reasons not to come over anymore.
Sooner or later, the egalitarian left wants to shut down debate when they can't offer anything other than BS like Aspergers.
war has to do something for entertainment. The voices in his head aren't speaking to him and his imaginary friends have found reasons not to come over anymore.
You're exactly correct, LM. Oh, and Almost forgot this... Remember Way back when, bush43 had just Stolen his 2nd Slection with 8 Million Born Again Fundies coming from Outer Space to vote for the very first time? And then not two months later comes out and says, 'I've got Political Capital and I'm going to spend it'? What was he going to do? PRIVATIZE SS and give it to WALL ST....LMFAO " Not while I'm President. I'll fight with everything I've got to stop those who would gamble your Social Security on Wall Street." Yet a month later when I questioned David Plouffe about the President's committment to Social Security at the Harkin Steak Fry, I got a non-answer that made chills run up my spine..."They want to weaken and destroy it. We want to fix it." Try that answer on someone who doesn't know that it doesn't need fixing because it ain't broke, and who went to school back when they taught us how to diagram sentences so we can decypher what those who look at the trust fund with a lustful, impure eye are really saying: "In order to avoid future benefit cuts, we must cut future benefits. Ditto raising the retirement age." Didn't we put some people in military prison for destroying villages in order to save them? The fact of the matter is, Social Security is not only not responsible for our deficit woes, it is independent of the deficit /and/ it is solvent for decades. Period. Full stop. That CBO report finds that the Social Security OAS (Old Age/Survivors) Trust Fund, without changing a thing, will be able to make full payouts through 2039 -- it should also be noted that the full payout projections have been pushed downward by the economic downturn of the last couple of years, and those numbers should start moving the other way as the economy recovers. And if that isn't the case, we have a lot bigger problems than Social Security coming down the pike. And even if the trust fund were to run out, Social Security would still be in pretty good shape. The OAS Trust Fund, established with the Social Security Amendments of 1939, is considered to be fully funded (in SS Speak in 'Short Term Actuarial Balance') if it has reserves equal to 100% of the next year's cost. As it turns out it fell out of balance in 1971 and despite some tweaks in 1977 continued to fall until it flirted with zero in 1982. Which led to the creation of the Greenspan Commission and its two part fix. The first part was intended to put the Trust Fund back in Short Term Balance, a task that was complete by 1993. The second part was to build the Trust Fund sufficiently over that minimum to fund benefits ON AVERAGE over the next 75 years. That was pretty successful as well, leaving the current Trust Fund with a ratio of 390 (almost 4 years of reserve) , but in any event it was ALWAYS the plan to draw down the excess as needed to help fund the demographic challenge of the Boomers. The last boomers will retire in 2029, ten years before the trust fund is currently projected to be depleted, and four years before it fails the 100% test (per SSA numbers which vary a little from CBO's).
Every American owes $50,000 in current debt and $500,000 in future obligations. $500,000 -- that's $2 million for every family of four. The median household income is about $50,000 a year. Do the math. This can't possibly be paid. Not only do we have to stop borrowing money now, we also have to remove Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid from entitlement status. They should be funded each year based on our ability to pay, not based on some automatic formula.
"As it turns out it fell out of balance in 1971 and despite some tweaks in 1977 continued to fall until it flirted with zero in 1982. Which led to the creation of the Greenspan Commission and its two part fix. The first part was intended to put the Trust Fund back in Short Term Balance, a task that was complete by 1993. The second part was to build the Trust Fund sufficiently over that minimum to fund benefits ON AVERAGE over the next 75 years. That was pretty successful as well, leaving the current Trust Fund with a ratio of 390 (almost 4 years of reserve) , ...." See those Four Dates? Nixon and Reagan took the goody out in 71 and 82. The 'tweaks' were under Carter/Clinton passively accepting....
Raising the debt ceiling doesn't pay our bills. It only allows this administration to continue to write BAD CHECKS, further excerbating the debt crisis we already face. Every American owes $50,000 in current debt and $500,000 in future obligations. $500,000 -- that's $2 million for every family of four. The median household income is about $50,000 a year. Do the math. This can't possibly be paid. Not only do we have to stop borrowing money now, we also have to remove Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid from entitlement status. They should be funded each year based on our ability to pay, not based on some automatic formula. Yep. And today it was announced Owe-bama just gave the United Nation's 100 billion dollars...and still some don't understand how anyone can be against raising the debt ceiling? Sheesh.
Proxy IP's are amusing.....lmao
I don't have to 'do more research' goofy. I can add and subtract. You on the Left apparently can't.
Proxy IP's are amusing.....lmao
Get ready for war then, MFer. You can use your Largest ever Military Budget to get me some weapons.... 8D Cause I ain't no body's slave. These Entitlements as you call them were made because 7 million Americans had just dies of starvation/cold the Winter of 32. The Top 50 000 will run out of bodies before the Bottom 90%....
Comments (54 - 102) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestCreating money when there's nothing to back it up, is always a scam. That's how we got here.
#14. To: hondo68 (#11)
Creating money when there's nothing to back it up, is always a scam. That's how we got here.
#15. To: lucysmom (#0)
(Edited)
#16. To: lucysmom, capitalist eric (#7)
If booms, busts, inflation, and debt were a result of fiat money then how do you explain the booms, busts, inflation, and debt that happens with a precious metal backed currency?
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#17. To: jwpegler (#16)
During the 19th century the U.S. Government enforced a bi-metals standards with fixed exchange rates between gold and silver. The bi- metals standard was created to favor silver interests. Of course, it created boom and bust cycles, just like the Federal Reserve's fiat money, and just like all political manipulation of the money supply does.
#18. To: mininggold (#17)
So both systems create booms and busts.
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#19. To: jwpegler (#18)
(Edited)
You are not understanding again, as usual.
#20. To: jwpegler (#18)
We have the technology to make competing currencies a reality today. That's what we need to do.
#21. To: lucysmom (#20)
As a country, we've been there, done that.
#22. To: buckeroo (#21)
It saves the federal budget; it saves America; these are federal employees, the largest organization of gangsters from around the world.
#23. To: mininggold (#22)
think they can compete with those located on Wall Street
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#24. To: hondo68 (#23)
The Obama Federal Reserve runs Wall Street. When union BO speaks they jump. WS can't convince the rubes that hO's anything but bad economic news, so the markets jump DOWN.
#25. To: mininggold (#24)
#26. To: mcgowanjm (#25)
(Edited)
Remember when Madoff was discovered to be a ponzi. On the message boards the first questions asked by many people were "Where is the money?" No one could comprehend that a 56 Billion dollar fund had NO MONEY.
#27. To: mininggold (#26)
And there still are many more out there similiarly stealing with the full blessing of Wall Street.
#28. To: mcgowanjm (#25)
Remember when Madoff was discovered to be a ponzi. On the message boards the first questions asked by many people were "Where is the money?" No one could comprehend that a 56 Billion dollar fund had NO MONEY.
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#29. To: jwpegler (#28)
(Edited)
No different than Social Security.
#30. To: jwpegler, mininggold, All (#28)
No different than Social Security
#31. To: mininggold (#29)
The Madoff's of the world are what made Social Security neccessary.
#32. To: lucysmom, All (#31)
The world's Madoffs want to get their hands on all that SS money.
#33. To: lucysmom (#1)
#34. To: mcgowanjm (#30)
(Edited)
SS is completely solvent and will be for at least 20 more years...
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#35. To: jwpegler (#34)
Social Security started running an annual deficit this year and will continue to do so as the baby boomers flood into the system. It's broke.
#36. To: Badeye (#33)
The rationalizations for doing so are very similiar to a drunk's reasoning for demanding he be given another bottle of Jack Daniels.
#37. To: lucysmom (#35)
(Edited)
it has a $2.6 trillion dollar surplus
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#38. To: jwpegler (#34)
#39. To: jwpegler lucysmom, All (#37)
it has a $2.6 trillion dollar surplus
#40. To: lucysmom (#36)
What I do know is that if we don't pay our bills, we've broken our word.
#41. To: Badeye (#40)
Raising the debt ceiling doesn't pay our bills.
#42. To: lucysmom (#35)
[Social Security] has a $2.6 trillion dollar surplus. (wouldn't Wall Street high rollers love to get their hands on that! What percentage do you think they'd take in bonuses?)
-- Joseph Goebbels --
#43. To: Capitalist Eric (#42)
You are a complete moron.
#44. To: All (#39)
#45. To: Capitalist Eric (#42)
#46. To: mininggold (#43)
#47. To: lucysmom (#45)
#48. To: lucysmom (#41)
#49. To: Badeye (#40)
Raising the debt ceiling doesn't pay our bills. It only allows this administration to continue to write BAD CHECKS, further excerbating the debt crisis we already face.
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#50. To: All (#48)
#51. To: jwpegler (#49)
#52. To: lucysmom (#41)
Raising the debt ceiling doesn't pay our bills.
#53. To: jwpegler (#49)
we also have to remove Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid from entitlement status.
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