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Title: 9Share Print Comments 11 Obama's empty 14th Amendment ploy on the debt ceiling
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://washingtonexaminer.com/opini ... th-amendment-ploy-debt-ceiling
Published: Jul 6, 2011
Author: Bill Wislon
Post Date: 2011-07-06 15:08:18 by no gnu taxes
Keywords: None
Views: 6916
Comments: 18

Left-wing pundits and their cronies in Congress delivered a well-timed second punch to the Obama news conference last week on the continuing fight over an increase in the U.S. debt limit.

While Obama tried to show he was "involved" in the negotiations, his henchmen announced that it might not matter; that Congress really had no say in the debt limit.

The thrust of their argument is that the 14th Amendment to the Constitution requires the president to do whatever he wants in order to ensure "the validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law ... shall not be questioned."

Overlooking the entire context of the section of the amendment -- ensuring debts incurred to battle the Confederacy were honored and barring the government or any state from assuming the debts of the rebel government -- the apologists for Obama assert that it is a universal mandate.

From this they claim the president has the power to ignore Congress and issue as much new debt as he deems appropriate. As with so many conflicts with this gang, they are trying to divert attention from the reality of the situation and present one of Obama's "false choices."

Were Congress to truly represent the people who by large margins oppose an increase in the debt limit, the government would not immediately go into default.

Default is a political choice. Money still flows to the Treasury every day. As interest payments came due, the money would be there to pay them. As old debt was retired, new debt could be issued up to the current limit.

What the administration could not do is incur new debt, additional debt. It could not spend trillions of dollars more than it takes in. An instant balanced budget would result.

So, there is no legal right or claim of the president to overturn Article I, Section 7 of the Constitution, which gives the House of Representatives the sole power to originate "the raising of revenue." And let's be clear, adding new debt is new revenue. The president has no role.

In fact, the 14th Amendment would tie Obama's hands in the event the debt limit is not raised. He would be required to pay interest first; he is not allowed to default.

There is enough money for that. Everything else would then become a political decision. Does he pay Social Security claims and deny our armed forces their pay?

Does he play the time-honored game of past hucksters and charlatans by looking to block funding with the aim of hurting the public in order to get the legislative branch to give in? Or, is there a statesman inside that otherwise apparent empty suit?

Obama could shut down all the wasteful and needless departments and agencies of the government -- HUD, Commerce, Labor, etc. He could cut the federal work force by millions, while proposing less costly support programs to get the bureaucrats back into the productive private sector.

He could tell the states to manage their own affairs and pull the federal bribes. He could end the U.S. presence in more than 100 countries, tell the Europeans to start defending themselves and deploy the returning military personnel to the border with Mexico to help that country deal with the raging drug violence.

The list of things Obama could do is nearly endless, things that would save money so he could meet the constitutional mandate of the 14th Amendment, while paring back the monstrous federal government. But it would be his choice, his political decision.

So, as the negotiations continue over the debt ceiling and other budget matters, it might be good for Obama and his PR spin doctors to stop the empty threats and silly ploys and get down to work.

Blowing smoke and threatening a coup d'etat only makes them -- and the country -- look worse than they already do.

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#1. To: no gnu taxes (#0)

the president has the power to ignore Congress

Congress appropriated spending in excess of revenues, the 14th amendment requires the President to avoid default.

"Thats because your basically and idiot."
Badeye posted on 2011-04-29 10:30:22 ET

go65  posted on  2011-07-06   15:33:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: go65 (#1)

The Republicans hate the Constitution.

"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.

Godwinson  posted on  2011-07-06   15:34:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: go65 (#1)

We wouldn't be in default. The interest on the debt would pay the first payments out -- thus no default. Then the hard choices about what would be need to cut would have to made. It's all a political bullshit ploy By the Kenyan and the Dims.

Now, I know Iā€™m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believersā€¦those who read all of Reverend Alā€™s sermons, and say things like, ā€œYou know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, ā€¦ā€. Can I get an ā€˜amenā€™??

no gnu taxes  posted on  2011-07-06   15:44:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: go65 (#1)

The 14th Amendment deals with the "public debt" - that is to say the ability for the federal government to pay back interest on T-bills that have been issued. Here is the problem: the likelihood that the federal government will default on the actual payment of interest on T-bills is pretty small. We have more than enough money to pay for that interest, and it will likely be the first thing "out the door" if we have a debt ceiling crisis, preventing a technical default at least.

Now, I know Iā€™m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believersā€¦those who read all of Reverend Alā€™s sermons, and say things like, ā€œYou know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, ā€¦ā€. Can I get an ā€˜amenā€™??

no gnu taxes  posted on  2011-07-06   15:47:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: no gnu taxes (#4)

and it will likely be the first thing "out the door"

The federal government is also legally bound to pay entitlements, and of course I don't think anyone will support shutting down the military, border security, and so on.

"Thats because your basically and idiot."
Badeye posted on 2011-04-29 10:30:22 ET

go65  posted on  2011-07-07   9:42:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: go65 (#5)

The federal government is also legally bound to pay entitlements, and of course I don't think anyone will support shutting down the military, border security, and so on.

Nothing to do with the 14 Amendment. What is the basis for your declaration of "legally bound"?

Now, I know Iā€™m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believersā€¦those who read all of Reverend Alā€™s sermons, and say things like, ā€œYou know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, ā€¦ā€. Can I get an ā€˜amenā€™??

no gnu taxes  posted on  2011-07-07   9:58:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: no gnu taxes (#6)

Nothing to do with the 14 Amendment. What is the basis for your declaration of "legally bound"?

you might want to look up the definition of an entitlement and review the legislation creating SS, Medicare, etc.

"Thats because your basically and idiot."
Badeye posted on 2011-04-29 10:30:22 ET

go65  posted on  2011-07-07   10:12:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: go65 (#7)

You want to provide the legal basis for your declaration of "legally bound," if you think there is one. Entitlement programs have been changed by law many times.

Now, I know Iā€™m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believersā€¦those who read all of Reverend Alā€™s sermons, and say things like, ā€œYou know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, ā€¦ā€. Can I get an ā€˜amenā€™??

no gnu taxes  posted on  2011-07-07   10:22:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: no gnu taxes (#8)

you might want to look up the definition of an entitlement and review the legislation creating SS, Medicare, etc.

"Thats because your basically and idiot."
Badeye posted on 2011-04-29 10:30:22 ET

go65  posted on  2011-07-07   11:29:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: go65 (#9)

You want to provide the legal basis for your declaration of "legally bound," if you think there is one. Entitlement programs have been changed by law many times.

Now, I know Iā€™m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believersā€¦those who read all of Reverend Alā€™s sermons, and say things like, ā€œYou know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, ā€¦ā€. Can I get an ā€˜amenā€™??

no gnu taxes  posted on  2011-07-07   11:49:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: no gnu taxes (#10)

Entitlement programs have been changed by law many times.

you don't seem to understand the definition of an 'entitlement'

The government is legally obligated to pay those who qualify.

"Thats because your basically and idiot."
Badeye posted on 2011-04-29 10:30:22 ET

go65  posted on  2011-07-07   11:56:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: go65 (#11)

You can't seem to provide the "legal obligation" you mentioned. These entitlements can change at any time if new rules are established. For example, it would be perfectly legitimate if the age for receiving SS was upped to 70, thus reducing benefits, which could be done now if Congress passed it and the Kenyan signed it. Only an idiot would think some dictionary definition would mean anything.

So you now know you and the Kenyan were FOS on your 14 Amendment argument, and you are trying to bail yourself by going on stupid tangential arguments?

Now, I know Iā€™m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believersā€¦those who read all of Reverend Alā€™s sermons, and say things like, ā€œYou know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, ā€¦ā€. Can I get an ā€˜amenā€™??

no gnu taxes  posted on  2011-07-07   13:02:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: no gnu taxes (#12)

These entitlements can change at any time if new rules are established

sure, if the Congress enacts entitlement changes before 8/2, and Obama signs them into law, then the obligations will change.

Barring that action, the government is legally obligated to pay out entitlements under "current" law; meaning the government can either default or find some other means to raise revenue (e.g. invoking the 14th amendment).

"Thats because your basically and idiot."
Badeye posted on 2011-04-29 10:30:22 ET

go65  posted on  2011-07-07   13:15:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: go65 (#13)

if the Congress enacts entitlement changes before 8/2, and Obama signs them into law, then the obligations will change.

yes

if the Congress enacts entitlement changes before 8/2, and Obama signs them into law, then the obligations will change.

Yes, but we all know whatever, happens it will only happen some time down the road for political reasons

Barring that action, the government is legally obligated to pay out entitlements under "current" law

Cite that current law

meaning the government can either default or find some other means to raise revenue (e.g. invoking the 14th amendment)

The 14th Amendment involves public debt, not private. It is not an issue over whether or not it will honored; it will. My guess is that even the Kenyan knows what an idiot he will look like for bringing is up and he never will.

Now, I know Iā€™m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believersā€¦those who read all of Reverend Alā€™s sermons, and say things like, ā€œYou know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, ā€¦ā€. Can I get an ā€˜amenā€™??

no gnu taxes  posted on  2011-07-07   13:34:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: no gnu taxes (#14)

Barring that action, the government is legally obligated to pay out entitlements under "current" law

Cite that current law

http://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/ssact/comp-ssa.htm

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/42/usc_sup_01_42_10_7_20_XVIII.html

happy reading.

"Thats because your basically and idiot."
Badeye posted on 2011-04-29 10:30:22 ET

go65  posted on  2011-07-07   14:07:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: go65 (#15)

You provide manuals on SS. Cite the law which says the entitlements must be received as they were promised in the past.

Now, I know Iā€™m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believersā€¦those who read all of Reverend Alā€™s sermons, and say things like, ā€œYou know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, ā€¦ā€. Can I get an ā€˜amenā€™??

no gnu taxes  posted on  2011-07-07   14:16:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: no gnu taxes (#16)

You provide manuals on SS. Cite the law which says the entitlements must be received as they were promised in the past.

actually i provided quotes to the actual laws. Everything you are looking for is in there.

"Thats because your basically and idiot."
Badeye posted on 2011-04-29 10:30:22 ET

go65  posted on  2011-07-07   14:38:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: go65 (#17)

You posted manuals.

I doubt you even know what is even in there.

Now, I know Iā€™m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believersā€¦those who read all of Reverend Alā€™s sermons, and say things like, ā€œYou know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, ā€¦ā€. Can I get an ā€˜amenā€™??

no gnu taxes  posted on  2011-07-07   15:01:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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