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Title: A Political Scientist Who Does Great Economics
Source: Forbes
URL Source: http://www.forbes.com/2009/10/12/ec ... butors-thomas-c-schelling.html
Published: Oct 12, 2009
Author: Thomas C. Schelling
Post Date: 2011-07-01 01:43:27 by lucysmom
Keywords: Social Sciences
Views: 28195
Comments: 54

On the selection of Elinor Ostrom for the Frank E. Seidman Distinguished Award in Political Economy in 1997, I was invited to the award ceremony to say a few words. A colleague asked me who the recipient was, and I said "Elinor Ostrom."

Ostrom pioneered the study of informal, non-governmental institutions that people invent to ration their use of the "commons," even in asymmetrical situations like upstream versus downstream occupants of a river bank. What is known as the "free rider" (non-cooperator) problem has found a number of solutions, voluntarily adopted, in a variety of cultures and environments. Elinor Ostrom "discovered" this subject and revealed it to us with examples ranging from the simple to the sophisticated. The Nobel prizes are intended to honor not lifetime achievement but specific discoveries or inventions. Elinor Ostrom is a perfect example.

It has been remarked that she is the first woman to be awarded the prize in economic sciences. (Several women in other disciplines were awarded Nobels this year.) She is also the first political scientist, symbolizing that you don't need a Ph.D. from an economics department to do work that advances economic "sciences." Daniel Kahneman, who with Amos Tversky (deceased) pioneered what is now called "behavioral economics," is a psychologist at Princeton who received the Nobel recently.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 39.

#1. To: Capitalist Eric (#0)

Have you figured out yet how political science relates to economics?

lucysmom  posted on  2011-07-01   1:58:02 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: lucysmom (#1)

Have you figured out yet how political science relates to economics?

It involves killing brown people?

Nobel laureate Thomas Schelling's little-known role in the Vietnam War.

socalv8  posted on  2011-07-01   3:25:51 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: socalv8 (#2)

It involves killing brown people?

This dark side of Tom Schelling is also the dark side of social science—the brash assumption that neat theories not only reflect the real world but can change it as well, and in ways that can be precisely measured.

Or it could be an economic theory that promotes unregulated free markets, trade, and opposes labor's right to organize for higher wages, better working conditions, and more benefits - not as overtly violent as war perhaps, but devastating none the less.

lucysmom  posted on  2011-07-01   9:57:11 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: lucysmom (#6)

labor's right to organize for higher wages, better working conditions, and more benefits

Lefty Labor proved too greedy.
At least the Right works to satisfy their greed...the Left's greed is aimed at other's work.

socalv8  posted on  2011-07-03   2:38:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: socalv8 (#20)

Lefty Labor proved too greedy.

How many employees would it take to match the combined compensation of the top 209 CEOs?

Answer, 102,000.

www.bloomberg.com/news/20...-s-jobs-afl-cio-says.html

But for you, it is labor that is too greedy - interesting.

Why do you hate productive American workers?

lucysmom  posted on  2011-07-03   10:28:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: lucysmom (#22)

Why do you hate productive American workers?

You must be referring to Non-union workers....

CZ82  posted on  2011-07-03   11:00:22 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: CZ82 (#24)

You must be referring to Non-union workers....

Nope. Only some one who wishes to see a docile working class would say that.

lucysmom  posted on  2011-07-03   11:06:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: lucysmom (#26)

You must be referring to Non-union workers....

Nope. Only some one who wishes to see a docile working class would say that.

No I prefer to see a productive working class, "MOST" union members just aren't ... takes 4 people to do 1 persons job..... and whine their asses off!!!

It makes life much easier going someplace that requires "good" customer service if the workers there are smart/productive....

CZ82  posted on  2011-07-03   13:52:04 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: CZ82 (#30)

No I prefer to see a productive working class, "MOST" union members just aren't ... takes 4 people to do 1 persons job..... and whine their asses off!!!

My father was a union member.

lucysmom  posted on  2011-07-03   17:04:37 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: lucysmom (#31)

My father was a union member.

So was my dad, (Civil Service) two of my uncles, ( 1-GM and 1 state) all of the civilians who I supervised when I was in the military, and now me (private)... Seems to me you said he was a janitor???

I've seen all of the "different" (public/private/federal) unions over the years and know how they operate.... "MOST" of them are inefficient and whiny.... the only ones I've seen that are any good (private) are the ones who have to be "PRODUCTIVE" to keep their jobs.....

Our latest contract we signed (May 11) has "NO" pay raises in it for the next 3 years... Why??? Because that is what the market will bear right now, why demand a raise so you can put yourself out of work..... In fact we all took a .20 cents per hour deduction from our base pay to put into our retirement fund... The balance was getting low from a lot of construction members being unemployed that last 2-1/2 years..... On top of that the amount of "HOURS" worked per month has fallen %50 in the last 10 years.... Ohio has lost over 500,000 jobs since 2000 and a good bit of them were union..... Ask all of the unemployed GM people if they are happy with their union!!!!! Don't be surprised if you hear a lot of 4 letter words from them about their bosses... Ask a private union guy what he thinks about being unemployed and he will cuss the Politicians up one side and down the other!!!!!

CZ82  posted on  2011-07-03   17:31:20 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: CZ82 (#32)

Seems to me you said he was a janitor???

Nope, that was a friend's father.

I've seen all of the "different" (public/private/federal) unions over the years and know how they operate.... "MOST" of them are inefficient and whiny....

My experience has been exactly the opposite. Think about it - if government pays as well as youse guys seem to think it does, with better benefits and job security than the private sector, then government is able to attract and retain better employees.

Ask a private union guy what he thinks about being unemployed and he will cuss the Politicians up one side and down the other!!!!!

They should be going after the bankers with pitch forks - they're the guys that inflated the bubble and profited when it popped.

lucysmom  posted on  2011-07-04   0:27:20 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: lucysmom (#34)

My experience has been exactly the opposite. Think about it - if government pays as well as youse guys seem to think it does, with better benefits and job security than the private sector, then government is able to attract and retain better employees.

Some jobs the federal government pays better, in other jobs the private sector pays better.... Take my job for instance I get paid to the tune of $4.00 to $13.50 an hr "better" than Government employees with the same job..... (And the private sector guys make about what I make, "If they have the knowledge")...

It didn't used to be that way until about 5-6 years ago... The government decided their employees were being paid too much, and made changes to the pay structure... All new employees were hired in at a much lower starting wage than was traditional, and the top earners were "frozen in pay" (no raises whatsoever) until they retire (which could be 10-15 years).... And the newbys are frozen in "grade" until the older guys retire, hence less opportunity for wage and grade increases..... It used to be you could go from bottom grade to top grade in about 10 years, now maybe you never get there.....

And the biggest kicker to all of this is now the government has to Sub-contract to guys like me, because the ones they employ (are not the best and brightest) can't do what I do because they don't know what I know..... SO.... now we're back to paying "TWICE" for services rendered!!!!! In fact to save a few dollars per hr in wages, now they pay me over $80 an hour to come in and do the same thing!!!!!(AS I said earlier Inefficient and you can add stupid to the mix)!!!

The biggest draw to working for the government is "Phuck off" time, they get about double the paid vacation and 4 times the sick leave..... Pensions are about the same.... So it depends on your situation as to what you want, how productive your are, how smart you are and what part of the country you live in as to which job opportunity makes the most sense for you......

CZ82  posted on  2011-07-04   9:25:32 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: CZ82 (#35)

I do believe you've just proved my point - you get what you pay for.

lucysmom  posted on  2011-07-04   9:37:23 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: lucysmom (#37)

I do believe you've just proved my point - you get what you pay for.

Now the state and local governments haven't made any pay scale changes, and the same set of circumstances still exist there..... They are overpaying their employees and still having to sub-contract to me..... Do I need to add in the teachers to this mix?????? The USA used to be in the top 3 of education level in the world, now we are somewhere around #20...... Why is that?????

Which leads us back to why the taxpayers are pissed off about how much some of these employees are getting paid, for what they get out of them..... and are supportive of the union collective bargaining busting legislature.....

And I proved my point that not all union employees are the best and brightest, especially the government types!!!! But then again I could show you how some private sector union people aren't the best and brightest either...... You have to look no farther than GM...... paying people $30 an hr to do a job that has only a $10 per hr skillset...... So you can blame them for making you new car cost about double what it's actually worth!!!!!!!! Which translates to higher cost of living (COL) for "everybody" and your dollar doesn't go quite as far...... Hence the large amount of people in this country who are living below the poverty line instead of above it...... Which leads back to having to pay Welfare to those people and issue them food stamps.....

We can do without some unions and the country would be better off for it......

CZ82  posted on  2011-07-04   10:13:51 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: CZ82 (#38)

And I proved my point that not all union employees are the best and brightest, especially the government types!!!!

I didn't say they were.

You have to look no farther than GM...... paying people $30 an hr to do a job that has only a $10 per hr skillset.....

I once worked for a company that determined the skill set for a particular job was worth minimum wage. Most new hires stuck around only as long as it took them to find a better job. Lots of costly mistakes were made because employees weren't around long enough to move beyond the training phase.

The company owner determined that workers were lazy and stupid - he whined "they say unemployment is high and we can't get people to work here."

So you can blame them for making you new car cost about double what it's actually worth!!!!!!!!

A car is worth exactly what some one is willing to pay for it. period!

lucysmom  posted on  2011-07-04   10:35:10 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 39.

#41. To: lucysmom (#39)

So you can blame them for making you new car cost about double what it's actually worth!!!!!!!!

A car is worth exactly what some one is willing to pay for it. period!

That's why I don't buy new cars anymore, just used..... And I won't buy GM or Chrysler.....

Why do you think we had Cash for Clunkers, to get those good used cars off the market and try to force some people to buy new even when they couldn't afford it... Nice little socialist/union program.......

CZ82  posted on  2011-07-04 10:43:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: lucysmom (#39)

You have to look no farther than GM...... paying people $30 an hr to do a job that has only a $10 per hr skillset.....

I once worked for a company that determined the skill set for a particular job was worth minimum wage. Most new hires stuck around only as long as it took them to find a better job. Lots of costly mistakes were made because employees weren't around long enough to move beyond the training phase.

The company owner determined that workers were lazy and stupid - he whined "they say unemployment is high and we can't get people to work here."

The wage scale isn't always fair, some get paid too much, some get paid not enough and some get paid what they are worth......

Let me guess that guy isn't in business anymore?????

CZ82  posted on  2011-07-04 10:50:10 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: lucysmom (#39)

You have to look no farther than GM...... paying people $30 an hr to do a job that has only a $10 per hr skillset.....

I once worked for a company that determined the skill set for a particular job was worth minimum wage. Most new hires stuck around only as long as it took them to find a better job. Lots of costly mistakes were made because employees weren't around long enough to move beyond the training phase.

The company owner determined that workers were lazy and stupid - he whined "they say unemployment is high and we can't get people to work here."

The way I look at it is you should get paid commensurate with your skillset.... You don't know shit, you don't get paid shit and vice versa..... Also it should depend on working conditions, too hot, too cold, physical, non-physical, cushy office environment, shitty mechanical room environment ..etc....etc......

If you don't know shit then it's either your teachers fault because they taught you only enough to be a ditch digger/factory worker, or it's yours because you didn't bother to learn what little the teachers tried to teach you and expanded on that yourself, or you didn't go to a Technical school and learn a trade, or you paid way to much attention to the Socialist agenda your college Professor was teaching...

And if you do have a good skillset then that's because you wanted to have one, you perservered, you paid your dues you rose up over the socialist agenda and should be paid accordingly....

Lazy=no pay, productive=pay checks.......... plain, pure and simple......

CZ82  posted on  2011-07-04 11:10:20 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 39.

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