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Title: Railways face radical overhaul to give 'better deal for all'
Source: Guardian
URL Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/m ... railways-face-radical-overhaul
Published: May 20, 2011
Author: Guardian
Post Date: 2011-05-20 10:16:01 by go65
Keywords: None
Views: 57940
Comments: 75

Commuters face the biggest shakeup of the railways since the ignominious Railtrack era after a government-commissioned report called for £1bn in costs to be stripped out of the industry – and for it to give all involved a "better deal".

An overhaul of the fares system was the most eye-catching recommendation in a study by Sir Roy McNulty, former chairman of the Civil Aviation Authority. The report into rail industry costs also outlined changes to slash the £5.2bn state subsidy, including phasing out ticket offices in small stations, removing conductors and giving train operators control of maintenance on some routes.

McNulty said fares in the UK were 30% higher than in France, Holland, Sweden and Switzerland, with operating costs running 40% higher than those countries. "There is a clear imperative to give both farepayers and taxpayers a better deal," McNulty said. "This industry has a serious cost deficiency issue to address. Everyone concerned must be aware that passengers are paying above the odds."

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 63.

#1. To: CZ82, Jwpegler, godwinson (#0)

Britian's rail privatization of rail hasn't gone so well.

go65  posted on  2011-05-20   10:17:30 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: go65, capitalist eric, CZ82, godwinson (#1)

Britian's rail privatization of rail hasn't gone so well.

Passenger rail is an inflexible, cost prohibitive, and obsolete concept.

Very few, if any, passenger rail systems in the world cover their operating costs, let alone make a profit.

From an Amtrack study (pdf):

When all revenues and expenses for the entire passenger train system are taken into consideration, European Passenger Train Operations operate at a financial loss and consequently require significant Public Subsidies...

For example, DB reports profits of about $1.94 per train mile while the railroad is receiving $36.78 in public funding. When public funding is taken into consideration, DB Train Operations actually cost the German government $34.88 per train mile. Similarly, passenger rail operations in the other five European countries cost their governments between $13.77 to $27.78 per train mile...

jwpegler  posted on  2011-05-20   12:05:00 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: jwpegler, go65, capitalist eric, CZ82 (#3)

Very few, if any, passenger rail systems in the world cover their operating costs, let alone make a profit.

You think airport facilities make money?

How much direct profit does the federal highway system generate?

In Germany, the public also funds the autobahn system - it is very expensive because cars have no speed limit the road has to be built from high grade materials unlike American roads which is asphalt tops (faster speed limits wear out roads).

Where do you conservative morons get the notion that for an entity to exist for the greater good it needs to generate a profit?

Why do you want to turn America into Somalia or Haiti? Those are nations that have no infrastructure spending by the govt.

Godwinson  posted on  2011-05-20   13:01:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Godwinson (#11)

the greater good

There is no such thing as the "greater good". It's a leftist delusion.

Every government action hurts someone (and usually a whole lot of people) because every single thing the government does is based on force at some fundamental level.

The market creates win-win situations. Buyers, sellers, partners... either all parties perceive a benefit to themselves or the transaction doesn't take place.

And no, I am not a conservative. I am a libertarian and always have been.

jwpegler  posted on  2011-05-20   13:19:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: jwpegler (#16)

Every government action hurts someone (and usually a whole lot of people) because every single thing the government does is based on force at some fundamental level.

Look around at the world: you've got countries like China, Canada, Germany, etc. with large investment in public services who spend less on health care, have greater life expectancies, higher standards of living, and greater economic performance.

Then you've got countries like Somalia, Yemen, Ivory Coast, Mexico with little public services, little infrastructure investment, and terrible social problems.

You keep arguing we should be more like third world countries.

go65  posted on  2011-05-20   13:32:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: go65 (#22) (Edited)

Look around at the world

I've been to 26 countries. I've been to Canada, U.K., Japan, and Germany more than 20 times each. I've been to Singapore, Ireland, France, Spain, and several other countries more than 10 times each. I've been in many developing nations and third-world hell holes in Asia, Latin America and even Africa. I've been to India and China. I spent 6 straight weeks in Greece.

I went to most of these countries on business trips, and NOT as a tourist staying in some secluded resort.

So, I have a damn good perspective.

Singapore, Hong Kong, and Taiwan rose to prosperity during the 80s and 90s because of the free market.

China and India are booming today because they moved to the free market.

Chile, Argentina and Brazil moved to prosperity because of the free market. To fact that they sometimes backslide is entirely because of government corruption, not the free market.

Everyone in the entire world except degenerate American and European leftists understand this.

jwpegler  posted on  2011-05-20   13:49:50 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: jwpegler (#26)

Everyone in the entire world except degenerate American and European leftists understand this.

Why you want to continue to ignore the fact that every country you cite makes huge investments in public infrastructure in areas such as mass transit, internet, and healthcare, is beyond me.

Meanwhile our massive investment goes into defense.

go65  posted on  2011-05-20   13:55:50 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: go65 (#29)

every country you cite makes huge investments in public infrastructure

They do not. Read my last post.

jwpegler  posted on  2011-05-20   14:05:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: jwpegler (#33)

India is not growing its investment in public infrastructure to any great degree. Their infrastructure is a disaster.

I don't know where you get your info:

India plans US$ 308 billion infrastructure investment

http://www.khl.com/magazines/international-construction/detail/item61858/

that's more than the Obama stimulus spent on infrastructure in the U.S.

The right solution is somewhere in between -- functional infrastructure that is cost effective. That means that the private sector has to run the power plants, tele-communications, etc. because governments are simply incapable of doing so.

I agree with respect to power, telecom, but not for roads-rails or any other monopoly service. You keep arguing against public sector investments in rail by citing countries who have public rail systems?

Do you not realize that?

go65  posted on  2011-05-20   14:12:13 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: go65 (#35) (Edited)

I don't know where you get your info

I have been there. I've seen it myself. That's where I get my information. First hand experience.

Sure, they might be spending more money. But it's being wasted on government corruption, not the roads. That's how the India government works.

Do you know what the toilets in India's major airports look like? They are just holes in the ground (like some Southern European countries and much of Asia). But there isn't any toilet paper. There is just a bucket of water. Oh my god... Fortunately, India has the most extravagant hotels for western business people I've ever seen. But if you have to take a dump, you better do it at the hotel or office because the government facilities are gruesome.

Do you want me to really blow your mind? I just signed a new contract last week. Everyday this week I've been on GoToMeeting conferences between 6am and 8am with a company in Pakistan. At some point if I have to go there, I'll give you a report on their rotten infrastructure.

jwpegler  posted on  2011-05-20   14:23:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: jwpegler (#39)

Do you know what the toilets in India's major airports look like? They are just holes in the ground (like some Southern European countries and much of Asia). But there isn't any toilet paper. There is just a bucket of water. Oh my god... Fortunately, India has the most extravagant hotels for western business people I've ever seen. But if you have to take a dump, you better do it at the hotel or office because the government facilities are gruesome.

I don't suppose that you'd considered that those toilet facilities represented cultural preferences from your own and not primitive infrastructure.

BTW, I found the WCs in the airports at Santa Cruz and Delhi to be quiet western.

lucysmom  posted on  2011-05-20   15:01:10 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: lucysmom (#54) (Edited)

I don't suppose that you'd considered that those toilet facilities represented cultural preferences from your own and not primitive infrastructure.

Oh please. Spashing your rear end with the same bucket of water that was used by the last dozen people is not a cultural preference. It's unsanitary.

jwpegler  posted on  2011-05-20   15:15:09 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: jwpegler (#55)

Spashing your rear end with the same bucket of water that was used by the last dozen people is not a cultural preference. It's unsanitary.

Dude - you're not supposed to wash your bum IN the bucket.

lucysmom  posted on  2011-05-20   18:07:46 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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