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Title: Railways face radical overhaul to give 'better deal for all'
Source:
Guardian
URL Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/m ... railways-face-radical-overhaul
Published: May 20, 2011
Author: Guardian
Post Date: 2011-05-20 10:16:01 by go65
Keywords: None
Views: 56680
Comments: 75
Commuters face the biggest shakeup of the railways since the ignominious Railtrack era after a government-commissioned report called for £1bn in costs to be stripped out of the industry – and for it to give all involved a "better deal". An overhaul of the fares system was the most eye-catching recommendation in a study by Sir Roy McNulty, former chairman of the Civil Aviation Authority. The report into rail industry costs also outlined changes to slash the £5.2bn state subsidy, including phasing out ticket offices in small stations, removing conductors and giving train operators control of maintenance on some routes. McNulty said fares in the UK were 30% higher than in France, Holland, Sweden and Switzerland, with operating costs running 40% higher than those countries. "There is a clear imperative to give both farepayers and taxpayers a better deal," McNulty said. "This industry has a serious cost deficiency issue to address. Everyone concerned must be aware that passengers are paying above the odds."
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#19. To: jwpegler (#3)
(Edited)
Very few, if any, passenger rail systems in the world cover their operating costs, let alone make a profit. As we've said over and over again, you can say the exact same for air travel. Are you ready to pull government subsidies for air travel and let it die? And of course you could pull subsidies for road travel as well. You might want to see what is going on in Virginia with the nation's only privately operated highway - the toll is up to about $6.00 each way and nobody is using it. The company running it drastically underestimated expenses and is appealing to the local government for help.
"Thats because your basically and idiot." he has a point - if countries like China, India, etc. continue to grow their investments in public infrastructure while the U.S. reduces its own, the market will indeed win and those countries will continue to outperform us. The conservative fallacy is to ignore the fact that we're in a globally competitive market. They'd rather see the U.S. in rapid decline then accept the fact that there is a role for public services.
"Thats because your basically and idiot." Actually it's tenet that most well functioning families respect.
Look around at the world: you've got countries like China, Canada, Germany, etc. with large investment in public services who spend less on health care, have greater life expectancies, higher standards of living, and greater economic performance. Then you've got countries like Somalia, Yemen, Ivory Coast, Mexico with little public services, little infrastructure investment, and terrible social problems. You keep arguing we should be more like third world countries.
"Thats because your basically and idiot." Leftists are like little children because they are infatuated with big shiny new things. The public schools are failing. So, let's build big, huge new school building. The roads are congested. So, let's build a fancy new train that is inconvenient for most people to use, so it stays 90% empty most of the time. You are demonstrating the problem -- form over substance.
Families are based on voluntary relationships. I voluntary get married, have kids, etc. Government is not family. It's force, backed up by people with guns and prison.
Your family does not consist of only YOU. Ask your kids what they think of the fact that you think they volunteered for the job.
I've been to 26 countries. I've been to Canada, U.K., Japan, and Germany more than 20 times each. I've been to Singapore, Ireland, France, Spain, and several other countries more than 10 times each. I've been in many developing nations and third-world hell holes in Asia, Latin America and even Africa. I've been to India and China. I spent 6 straight weeks in Greece. I went to most of these countries on business trips, and NOT as a tourist staying in some secluded resort. So, I have a damn good perspective. Singapore, Hong Kong, and Taiwan rose to prosperity during the 80s and 90s because of the free market. China and India are booming today because they moved to the free market. Chile, Argentina and Brazil moved to prosperity because of the free market. To fact that they sometimes backslide is entirely because of government corruption, not the free market. Everyone in the entire world except degenerate American and European leftists understand this.
Completely 100% irrelevant and absurd statement. The government are not my kid's parents. My wife and I are. We love them. The government doesn't. We care about them. The government only cares about power and control.
Singapore: Hong Kong: Taiwain: Interestingly enough, Taiwain, with it's privately owned train system, isn't doing so well: So what was your point again?
"Thats because your basically and idiot." Why you want to continue to ignore the fact that every country you cite makes huge investments in public infrastructure in areas such as mass transit, internet, and healthcare, is beyond me. Meanwhile our massive investment goes into defense.
"Thats because your basically and idiot." Have you ever been to the Seattle Airport or Heathrow (in London)? They look more like shopping malls than airports. Try Istanbul. My wife, daughters and I had lunch there, last month... Burger King. $50. And we weren't getting anything crazy.
List of those unable to think: Bumper sticker on DwarF's car: Of course. Socialism never works, in the long run. Eventually, you run out of other peoples' money to steal.
List of those unable to think: Bumper sticker on DwarF's car: India is not growing its investment in public infrastructure to any great degree. Their infrastructure is a disaster. Right in the middle of Bangalore (a city of 4 million people, which is one of their primary technology hubs), the main road turns to gravel for about a mile. The government power companies are so inconsistent, that all outsourcing centers have huge generators and a week's worth of fuel on hand to keep the power on when the government power stations break down. Yet, India is a growing economic powerhouse. How can this be without massive government infrastructure investment??? The left says that this is impossible, yet it is happening. Yes, the Chinese government is building shiny new things, and wasting a lot of money doing so. The right solution is somewhere in between -- functional infrastructure that is cost effective. That means that the private sector has to run the power plants, tele-communications, etc. because governments are simply incapable of doing so.
They do not. Read my last post.
Singapore is the second most densely populated place on earth. Almost everyone lives in a high rise apartment / condo. Hong Kong is the most densely populated place on earth. They have double the population density as Singapore. Almost everyone lives in high rise apartments / condos. Same thing with Tokyo -- a densely populated city with very few single family homes. Shiny new light rails won't work in sprawling suburban America because they can't possibly be convenient given our environment. Philippine Jeepneys can work. It's just a fact.
I don't know where you get your info: that's more than the Obama stimulus spent on infrastructure in the U.S. I agree with respect to power, telecom, but not for roads-rails or any other monopoly service. You keep arguing against public sector investments in rail by citing countries who have public rail systems? Do you not realize that?
"Thats because your basically and idiot." Sure. The stuff of legends! List of those unable to think: Bumper sticker on DwarF's car: I missed something, when did we ever start arguing about light rail in suburban America? I'm really not sure what point you are trying to make here.
"Thats because your basically and idiot." Hong Kong is the most densely populated place on earth. They have double the population density as Singapore. Almost everyone lives in high rise apartments / condos. Same thing with Tokyo -- a densely populated city with very few single family homes. Ok, so why do you argue then "Passenger rail is an inflexible, cost prohibitive, and obsolete concept."
"Thats because your basically and idiot." I have been there. I've seen it myself. That's where I get my information. First hand experience. Sure, they might be spending more money. But it's being wasted on government corruption, not the roads. That's how the India government works. Do you know what the toilets in India's major airports look like? They are just holes in the ground (like some Southern European countries and much of Asia). But there isn't any toilet paper. There is just a bucket of water. Oh my god... Fortunately, India has the most extravagant hotels for western business people I've ever seen. But if you have to take a dump, you better do it at the hotel or office because the government facilities are gruesome. Do you want me to really blow your mind? I just signed a new contract last week. Everyday this week I've been on GoToMeeting conferences between 6am and 8am with a company in Pakistan. At some point if I have to go there, I'll give you a report on their rotten infrastructure.
All airports are subsidized.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
I guess Jesus was a commie
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
I have relatives in Germany. How did you like our European socialized roads? Makes America look like a third world shit hole, right? America is Upper Volta with nukes.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
Yes, let's be less like Europe and be more like Somalia.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
Jesus didn't force anyone to do anything, so no he wasn't a commie.
So do I. The difference is that I've actually been there (20+ times), while you only have your textbooks.
Your analysis on India is a joke. India is EMERGING and has a long way to go to catch up but as we speak they are trying to create new infrastructure. Yea, life goes on in those cities but it is not ideal. Why do you want America's cities to look like Calcutta?
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
Now you know how many times I have been there also? Your delusions explain why Republicans make stuff up all the time. So you visit Germany 20 times and still think America is better? How stupid are you?
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
Wrong again. London City Airport’s profits are flying high Major Australian airport profits soaring Shenzhen Airport's profits surge You are living in the 1950s. The world has changed.
All airports are subsidized. That they make profit is besides the point. American oil companies are subsidized for example.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
China and India are booming today because they moved to the free market. China and India are booming and both recognize a large segment of their populations are being left out of the boom; both governments know that they have a limited amount of time to "spread the wealth around" if they are to avoid big trouble. From a report by HKSAR Government: Job and Income Insecurity: Poverty and Disparities of Wealth: The number of people earning low wages is rising and the disparities between the wealthy and the poor are at its greatest. Poverty will continue to be a critical problem facing the significant population mass. Increasing Competition and Decreasing Life Chances: The belief that one could succeed if he/she tried hard enough is being challenged in this generation. Disadvantaged groups are at considerable risk under increasing competition, impairing their chances of improving their lives and moving up the social ladder will be increasingly difficult. The ideological purity you seek doesn't exist in the real world.
The Republican budget goes after children and the poor. Courage would be going after defense and the rich. Bill Maher
Where did I say that? No where. What I said is that the right solution is somewhere in between India (not much investment) and China (wasting money on shiny new things). The right approach is functional infrastructure that is cost effective. The left is all about shiny new things, just like my 3 year old.
ROTFLMAO. Neither of these countries is spreading any wealth around. They are fostering environments in which entrepreneurs can create new wealth.
As I recall, their trains were very good.
The Republican budget goes after children and the poor. Courage would be going after defense and the rich. Bill Maher
I don't suppose that you'd considered that those toilet facilities represented cultural preferences from your own and not primitive infrastructure. BTW, I found the WCs in the airports at Santa Cruz and Delhi to be quiet western.
The Republican budget goes after children and the poor. Courage would be going after defense and the rich. Bill Maher
Oh please. Spashing your rear end with the same bucket of water that was used by the last dozen people is not a cultural preference. It's unsanitary.
Yep. That first picture is exactly why Indian corporations have to spend so much money on gas-powered backup generators. They would be out of business if they relied on the government power grid.
That picture of the power pole in India is what unregulated limited govt looks like. yea, stuff will still get done but......
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
Sure they are... Wrong again Bozo. Most of the power companies in India are government owned and run through the Ministry of Power, Ministry of Coal and Ministry of New Renewable Energy and administered locally by various Public Sector Undertakings (PSUs) This is what incompetent government looks like. People who live in tin hovels in India splice into the power lines themselves so that they can watch TV. Tax payers foot the bill. Private enterprise needs to serve their customers to stay in business. They can't stay in business with constant blackouts. The government is a monopoly so they get to stay in business through FORCE and without any consideration whatsoever to the customer.
Comments (60 - 75) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestPassenger rail is an inflexible, cost prohibitive, and obsolete concept.
Badeye posted on 2011-04-29 10:30:22 ET
#20. To: lucysmom, jwpegler (#18)
That's a lofty ideal that isn't supported by real world experience.
Badeye posted on 2011-04-29 10:30:22 ET
#21. To: jwpegler (#16)
There is no such thing as the "greater good". It's a leftist delusion.
#22. To: jwpegler (#16)
Every government action hurts someone (and usually a whole lot of people) because every single thing the government does is based on force at some fundamental level.
Badeye posted on 2011-04-29 10:30:22 ET
#23. To: Godwinson, capitalist eric (#9)
(Edited)
Jeez, these conservative jack offs really do want us to become a third world nation
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#24. To: mininggold (#21)
families
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#25. To: jwpegler (#24)
Families are based on voluntary relationships. I voluntary get married, have kids, etc
#26. To: go65 (#22)
(Edited)
Look around at the world
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#27. To: mininggold (#25)
Ask your kids what they think of the fact that you think they volunteered for the job
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#28. To: jwpegler (#26)
Singapore, Hong Kong, and Taiwan rose to prosperity during the 80s and 90s because of the free market.
The Mass Rapid Transit or MRT is a rapid transit system that forms the backbone of the railway system in Singapore, spanning the entire city-state. The initial section of the MRT, between Yio Chu Kang Station and Toa Payoh Station, opened in 1987 establishing itself as the second-oldest metro system in Southeast Asia, after Manila's LRT System. The network has since grown rapidly as a result of Singapore's aim of developing a comprehensive rail network as the main backbone of the public transport system in Singapore with an average daily ridership of 1.952 million in 2009, just over 63% of the bus network's 3.085 million in the same period.[2]
Mass Transit Railway (MTR) is the rapid transit railway system in Hong Kong. Originally opened in 1979, the system now includes 211.6 km of rail with 152 stations, including 86 railway stations and 69 light rail stops. The MTR system is currently operated by MTR Corporation Limited (MTRCL).
Under the government's rail-led transport policy,[3] the MTR system is a common mode of public transport in Hong Kong, offering efficiency and affordability, with over four million trips made in an average weekday. As of first-half 2009, the MTR has a 42% market share of the franchised public transport market, making it the most popular transport option in Hong Kong.[4] The integration of the Octopus smart card fare-payment technology into the MTR system in September 1997 has further enhanced the ease of commuting on the MTR.
The Kaohsiung Mass Rapid Transit System (KMRT; Chinese: Œ40;96;ä23;126;þ63;q39;?95;A13;) is a rapid transit system covering metropolitan Kaohsiung, Taiwan. Construction of the KMRT started in October 2001.[2] The Red Line and the Orange Line opened on March 9 and September 14, 2008, respectively.[3][4][5] KMRT is operated by the Kaohsiung Rapid Transit Corporation (KRTC; Chinese: Œ40;96;þ63;q39;Ð44;Ö96;) under the BOT contract the company signed with the Kaohsiung City Government.
Ridership has been far below expectations, with an average of 100,000 passengers per day versus an expected 360,000, and accumulated losses are expected to reach NT$6 billion by the end of 2009.[13] Currently, as of November 2010, the average daily ridership stands at about 123,385, with ridership figures significantly greater on weekends than on weekdays.[1] During New Year's Eve on December 31, 2010, the system transported over 292,000 passengers.[14] KRTC stated that ridership would need to exceed 380,000 passengers per day in order to break even.[15]
Badeye posted on 2011-04-29 10:30:22 ET
#29. To: jwpegler (#26)
Everyone in the entire world except degenerate American and European leftists understand this.
Badeye posted on 2011-04-29 10:30:22 ET
#30. To: jwpegler (#14)
Of course they do, because they rent space to Burger King, Starbucks, bars, magazine stands, gift shops, etc...
mcgowanjm, ferret mike, skippy, fartboy/yukko, white sands, bucky, lucys idiot mom, e_type_jackoff, go56, badlie, wreck, calCON, mininggold, war, Banjo Boris, Biff, Godwinson and meguro. If you're on the above list, you're too fucking stupid to hold a real conversation.
#31. To: jwpegler (#3)
When all revenues and expenses for the entire passenger train system are taken into consideration, European Passenger Train Operations operate at a financial loss and consequently require significant Public Subsidies...
mcgowanjm, ferret mike, skippy, fartboy/yukko, white sands, bucky, lucys idiot mom, e_type_jackoff, go56, badlie, wreck, calCON, mininggold, war, Banjo Boris, Biff, Godwinson and meguro. If you're on the above list, you're too fucking stupid to hold a real conversation.
#32. To: go65, capitalist eric, CZ82, godwinson (#20)
(Edited)
if countries like China, India, etc. continue to grow their investments in public infrastructure
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#33. To: go65 (#29)
every country you cite makes huge investments in public infrastructure
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#34. To: go65 (#28)
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#35. To: jwpegler (#33)
India is not growing its investment in public infrastructure to any great degree. Their infrastructure is a disaster.
India plans US$ 308 billion infrastructure investment
http://www.khl.com/magazines/international-construction/detail/item61858/
The right solution is somewhere in between -- functional infrastructure that is cost effective. That means that the private sector has to run the power plants, tele-communications, etc. because governments are simply incapable of doing so.
Badeye posted on 2011-04-29 10:30:22 ET
#36. To: jwpegler (#32)
India is not growing its investment in public infrastructure to any great degree. Their infrastructure is a disaster.
mcgowanjm, ferret mike, skippy, fartboy/yukko, white sands, bucky, lucys idiot mom, e_type_jackoff, go56, badlie, wreck, calCON, mininggold, war, Banjo Boris, Biff, Godwinson and meguro. If you're on the above list, you're too fucking stupid to hold a real conversation.
#37. To: jwpegler (#34)
Shiny new light rails won't work in sprawling suburban America because they can't possibly be convenient given our environment. Philippine Jeepneys can work. It's just a fact.
Badeye posted on 2011-04-29 10:30:22 ET
#38. To: jwpegler (#34)
Singapore is the second most densely populated place on earth. Almost everyone lives in a high rise apartment / condo.
Badeye posted on 2011-04-29 10:30:22 ET
#39. To: go65 (#35)
(Edited)
I don't know where you get your info
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#40. To: jwpegler (#14)
#41. To: jwpegler, lucysmom (#16)
There is no such thing as the "greater good". It's a leftist delusion.
#42. To: jwpegler (#17)
I've actually driven on the Autobahn many times.
#43. To: jwpegler, capitalist eric, lucysmom, mininggold (#23)
(Edited)
The roads are congested. So, let's build a fancy new train that is inconvenient for most people to use, so it stays 90% empty most of the time.
#44. To: Godwinson (#41)
(Edited)
I guess Jesus was a commie
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#45. To: Godwinson (#42)
I have relatives in Germany
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#46. To: jwpegler, go65, capitalist eric, CZ82 (#32)
#47. To: jwpegler (#45)
So do I. The difference is that I've actually been there (20+ times), while you only have your textbooks.
#48. To: Godwinson (#40)
All airports are subsidized.
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#49. To: jwpegler (#48)
(Edited)
#50. To: jwpegler (#26)
Singapore, Hong Kong, and Taiwan rose to prosperity during the 80s and 90s because of the free market.
The new mode of business operation due to technological advancement and globalization causes structural job displacement and leads to high rate of unemployment. Jobs are no longer stable and secured in all levels. Life-long careers are replaced by casual and contract jobs. Fast and continuous changes in job market warrant quick alignment of job skills and retraining of workers.
#51. To: Godwinson (#46)
Why do you want America's cities to look like Calcutta?
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#52. To: lucysmom (#50)
(Edited)
"spread the wealth around"
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#53. To: jwpegler (#32)
India is not growing its investment in public infrastructure to any great degree. Their infrastructure is a disaster.
#54. To: jwpegler (#39)
Do you know what the toilets in India's major airports look like? They are just holes in the ground (like some Southern European countries and much of Asia). But there isn't any toilet paper. There is just a bucket of water. Oh my god... Fortunately, India has the most extravagant hotels for western business people I've ever seen. But if you have to take a dump, you better do it at the hotel or office because the government facilities are gruesome.
#55. To: lucysmom (#54)
(Edited)
I don't suppose that you'd considered that those toilet facilities represented cultural preferences from your own and not primitive infrastructure.
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#56. To: Capitalist Eric (#36)
(Edited)
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#57. To: jwpegler, lucysmom (#56)
#58. To: lucysmom (#53)
As I recall, their trains were very good.
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#59. To: Godwinson (#57)
(Edited)
That picture of the power pole in India is what unregulated limited govt looks like
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
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