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Title: Railways face radical overhaul to give 'better deal for all'
Source: Guardian
URL Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/m ... railways-face-radical-overhaul
Published: May 20, 2011
Author: Guardian
Post Date: 2011-05-20 10:16:01 by go65
Keywords: None
Views: 57978
Comments: 75

Commuters face the biggest shakeup of the railways since the ignominious Railtrack era after a government-commissioned report called for £1bn in costs to be stripped out of the industry – and for it to give all involved a "better deal".

An overhaul of the fares system was the most eye-catching recommendation in a study by Sir Roy McNulty, former chairman of the Civil Aviation Authority. The report into rail industry costs also outlined changes to slash the £5.2bn state subsidy, including phasing out ticket offices in small stations, removing conductors and giving train operators control of maintenance on some routes.

McNulty said fares in the UK were 30% higher than in France, Holland, Sweden and Switzerland, with operating costs running 40% higher than those countries. "There is a clear imperative to give both farepayers and taxpayers a better deal," McNulty said. "This industry has a serious cost deficiency issue to address. Everyone concerned must be aware that passengers are paying above the odds."

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 26.

#1. To: CZ82, Jwpegler, godwinson (#0)

Britian's rail privatization of rail hasn't gone so well.

go65  posted on  2011-05-20   10:17:30 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: go65, capitalist eric, CZ82, godwinson (#1)

Britian's rail privatization of rail hasn't gone so well.

Passenger rail is an inflexible, cost prohibitive, and obsolete concept.

Very few, if any, passenger rail systems in the world cover their operating costs, let alone make a profit.

From an Amtrack study (pdf):

When all revenues and expenses for the entire passenger train system are taken into consideration, European Passenger Train Operations operate at a financial loss and consequently require significant Public Subsidies...

For example, DB reports profits of about $1.94 per train mile while the railroad is receiving $36.78 in public funding. When public funding is taken into consideration, DB Train Operations actually cost the German government $34.88 per train mile. Similarly, passenger rail operations in the other five European countries cost their governments between $13.77 to $27.78 per train mile...

jwpegler  posted on  2011-05-20   12:05:00 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: jwpegler, go65, capitalist eric, CZ82 (#3)

Very few, if any, passenger rail systems in the world cover their operating costs, let alone make a profit.

You think airport facilities make money?

How much direct profit does the federal highway system generate?

In Germany, the public also funds the autobahn system - it is very expensive because cars have no speed limit the road has to be built from high grade materials unlike American roads which is asphalt tops (faster speed limits wear out roads).

Where do you conservative morons get the notion that for an entity to exist for the greater good it needs to generate a profit?

Why do you want to turn America into Somalia or Haiti? Those are nations that have no infrastructure spending by the govt.

Godwinson  posted on  2011-05-20   13:01:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Godwinson (#11)

the greater good

There is no such thing as the "greater good". It's a leftist delusion.

Every government action hurts someone (and usually a whole lot of people) because every single thing the government does is based on force at some fundamental level.

The market creates win-win situations. Buyers, sellers, partners... either all parties perceive a benefit to themselves or the transaction doesn't take place.

And no, I am not a conservative. I am a libertarian and always have been.

jwpegler  posted on  2011-05-20   13:19:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: jwpegler (#16)

Every government action hurts someone (and usually a whole lot of people) because every single thing the government does is based on force at some fundamental level.

Look around at the world: you've got countries like China, Canada, Germany, etc. with large investment in public services who spend less on health care, have greater life expectancies, higher standards of living, and greater economic performance.

Then you've got countries like Somalia, Yemen, Ivory Coast, Mexico with little public services, little infrastructure investment, and terrible social problems.

You keep arguing we should be more like third world countries.

go65  posted on  2011-05-20   13:32:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: go65 (#22) (Edited)

Look around at the world

I've been to 26 countries. I've been to Canada, U.K., Japan, and Germany more than 20 times each. I've been to Singapore, Ireland, France, Spain, and several other countries more than 10 times each. I've been in many developing nations and third-world hell holes in Asia, Latin America and even Africa. I've been to India and China. I spent 6 straight weeks in Greece.

I went to most of these countries on business trips, and NOT as a tourist staying in some secluded resort.

So, I have a damn good perspective.

Singapore, Hong Kong, and Taiwan rose to prosperity during the 80s and 90s because of the free market.

China and India are booming today because they moved to the free market.

Chile, Argentina and Brazil moved to prosperity because of the free market. To fact that they sometimes backslide is entirely because of government corruption, not the free market.

Everyone in the entire world except degenerate American and European leftists understand this.

jwpegler  posted on  2011-05-20   13:49:50 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 26.

#28. To: jwpegler (#26)

Singapore, Hong Kong, and Taiwan rose to prosperity during the 80s and 90s because of the free market.

Singapore:

The Mass Rapid Transit or MRT is a rapid transit system that forms the backbone of the railway system in Singapore, spanning the entire city-state. The initial section of the MRT, between Yio Chu Kang Station and Toa Payoh Station, opened in 1987 establishing itself as the second-oldest metro system in Southeast Asia, after Manila's LRT System. The network has since grown rapidly as a result of Singapore's aim of developing a comprehensive rail network as the main backbone of the public transport system in Singapore with an average daily ridership of 1.952 million in 2009, just over 63% of the bus network's 3.085 million in the same period.[2]

Hong Kong:

Mass Transit Railway (MTR) is the rapid transit railway system in Hong Kong. Originally opened in 1979, the system now includes 211.6 km of rail with 152 stations, including 86 railway stations and 69 light rail stops. The MTR system is currently operated by MTR Corporation Limited (MTRCL).

Under the government's rail-led transport policy,[3] the MTR system is a common mode of public transport in Hong Kong, offering efficiency and affordability, with over four million trips made in an average weekday. As of first-half 2009, the MTR has a 42% market share of the franchised public transport market, making it the most popular transport option in Hong Kong.[4] The integration of the Octopus smart card fare-payment technology into the MTR system in September 1997 has further enhanced the ease of commuting on the MTR.

Taiwain:

The Kaohsiung Mass Rapid Transit System (KMRT; Chinese: Œ40;96;ä23;126;þ63;q39;?95;A13;) is a rapid transit system covering metropolitan Kaohsiung, Taiwan. Construction of the KMRT started in October 2001.[2] The Red Line and the Orange Line opened on March 9 and September 14, 2008, respectively.[3][4][5] KMRT is operated by the Kaohsiung Rapid Transit Corporation (KRTC; Chinese: Œ40;96;þ63;q39;Ð44;Ö96;) under the BOT contract the company signed with the Kaohsiung City Government.

Interestingly enough, Taiwain, with it's privately owned train system, isn't doing so well:

Ridership has been far below expectations, with an average of 100,000 passengers per day versus an expected 360,000, and accumulated losses are expected to reach NT$6 billion by the end of 2009.[13] Currently, as of November 2010, the average daily ridership stands at about 123,385, with ridership figures significantly greater on weekends than on weekdays.[1] During New Year's Eve on December 31, 2010, the system transported over 292,000 passengers.[14] KRTC stated that ridership would need to exceed 380,000 passengers per day in order to break even.[15]

So what was your point again?

go65  posted on  2011-05-20 13:54:09 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: jwpegler (#26)

Everyone in the entire world except degenerate American and European leftists understand this.

Why you want to continue to ignore the fact that every country you cite makes huge investments in public infrastructure in areas such as mass transit, internet, and healthcare, is beyond me.

Meanwhile our massive investment goes into defense.

go65  posted on  2011-05-20 13:55:50 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: jwpegler (#26)

Singapore, Hong Kong, and Taiwan rose to prosperity during the 80s and 90s because of the free market.

China and India are booming today because they moved to the free market.

China and India are booming and both recognize a large segment of their populations are being left out of the boom; both governments know that they have a limited amount of time to "spread the wealth around" if they are to avoid big trouble.

From a report by HKSAR Government:

Job and Income Insecurity:
The new mode of business operation due to technological advancement and globalization causes structural job displacement and leads to high rate of unemployment. Jobs are no longer stable and secured in all levels. Life-long careers are replaced by casual and contract jobs. Fast and continuous changes in job market warrant quick alignment of job skills and retraining of workers.

Poverty and Disparities of Wealth: The number of people earning low wages is rising and the disparities between the wealthy and the poor are at its greatest. Poverty will continue to be a critical problem facing the significant population mass.

Increasing Competition and Decreasing Life Chances: The belief that one could succeed if he/she tried hard enough is being challenged in this generation. Disadvantaged groups are at considerable risk under increasing competition, impairing their chances of improving their lives and moving up the social ladder will be increasingly difficult.

The ideological purity you seek doesn't exist in the real world.

lucysmom  posted on  2011-05-20 14:50:04 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 26.

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