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Title: Presbyterian Church U.S.A.: Faith and gay rights
Source:
latimes.com
URL Source: http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion ... rians-20110515,0,4233480.story
Published: May 15, 2011
Author: By Randall Tremba
Post Date: 2011-05-15 09:53:45 by Ferret Mike
Keywords: None
Views: 2257
Comments: 8
Last week, a majority of the 173 presbyteries making up the Presbyterian Church U.S.A. voted to amend the church's constitution and allow openly gay and lesbian members to become ordained ministers, elders and deacons. The vote followed decades of debate and more than six months of voting. In taking this action, I believe our church moved a step forward and brought itself closer in line with Christ's all-embracing love. But it's not a step all Presbyterians welcome. I know this because for years, I was on the other side. Raised in a fundamentalist Baptist church, I was taught that being gay was morally wrong. While I was enrolled in an evangelical seminary in the early 1970s, gay issues weren't even discussed, so I had no real reason to question my childhood beliefs. In 1976, I was installed as minister for the Shepherdstown Presbyterian Church in West Virginia. I became acquainted with several gay and lesbian members of the congregation. As it turns out, they were not just faithful members of the church; their lives were exemplary. As a longtime evangelical, I had studied the Bible extensively. But after arriving in Shepherdstown, I slowly began to see Scripture in a new, more inclusive way. Still, I had no reason to challenge church laws. Then, in late 2001, I returned from a sabbatical and learned that the congregation's slate of nominees for elder and deacon included Sally. Sally is a longtime active Presbyterian and beloved by our members. Sally is also a lesbian in a long-term committed relationship. I was shocked and dismayed. Despite my appreciation of Sally's devotion and gifts, my evangelical foundations were shaken. The nomination was a direct challenge to the church's constitution, and I feared the consequences of ordaining her. I was also afraid it could divide our congregation. And I was pretty sure the session — the congregation's governing council responsible for approving nominees for ordination — would not be in agreement. I was right. We all had great affection for Sally, but her nomination put our congregation at odds with our denomination. After an initial discussion that raised serious doubts about approving the ordination, the session recessed for a week to read the Bible more deeply and reexamine our church's laws and teachings. When we came back together, each elder spoke. Some spoke for ordination, and some against. We listened to each other and then took a 20-minute recess to be alone, to pray for guidance. After reconvening, each elder announced his or her vote and the reasons behind it. The conclusion stunned us all: The vote was unanimous for ordination. I don't know what swayed every vote, but I know what made the difference for me. It was one crucial question: "Would Jesus ever call a 25-year, faithful relationship of love and care unholy?" For many of us, the answer was obvious. After the vote, my anxieties vanished, replaced by great joy. The reflections and conversations around Sally's ordination had vanquished our collective anxieties. We came out of it feeling that our decision was indeed a celebration of God's infinite love. The decision wasn't embraced by the whole church immediately. It would take time for my congregation and the larger church to see this as a divine opening. A week before our decision, we received an anonymous phone call warning us against approving Sally for ordination. Sure enough, the presbytery was notified. It investigated and rebuked our session for "irregularities." Despite that rebuke, we never doubted that we had done the right thing in the eyes of God. The decision triggered amazing things at our church. Yes, a few members left. But many estranged believers and formerly "un-churched" people have walked through the door. Our Sunday school is bursting at the seams. Our youth group keeps growing. The congregation is proud to be part of a church that is open and affirming. We have added staff and undertaken several building projects. So, to pastors and others who dread the consequences of openly gay and lesbian people serving as ministers, elders and deacons, I would simply say: This is a sacred moment, and a time for rejoicing. The church's action last week recognized an important teaching from the book of Galatians: "We are all one in Jesus Christ." The Rev. Randall Tremba is minister of word and sacrament at Shepherdstown Presbyterian Church in Shepherdstown, W.Va.
The Rev. Bear Ride, left, and her spouse, the Rev. Susan Craig, celebrate with Brian Symonds, who hopes to become the first openly gay person ordained by the Pacific Presbytery. (Robert Gauthier / Los Angeles Times / May 10, 2011)
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#1. To: Ferret Mike (#0)
Presbyterians can't be considered a christian church anymore. They are more akin to satanists/wiccans.
Now that you got your baiting out of the way, do you have an opinion on this that doen't make you look so small?
CHristianity is defined by the Bible. Not satanists and the fallen. They aren't christians. If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Nah, you are just a pig headed bigot on the issue with a lame excuse you use to irrationally hate people.
Mike it is you that hates faggots. You tell them it is normal natural behavior. Then they might believe you. So you are partially responsible for sending queers to hell. If you had told them the truth that it was wrong maybe you could have helped them.
Interesting way for you to lie. Actually, I'm the one who pays attention to what well vetted research shows; that homosexuality is just a normal variant of human sexuality. Homosexuality does not affect how well adjusted, sane and productive a person is. You want to stigmitize people for something they have no control over, namely how they are imprinted sexually as human beings. Here you shamefully call for death for people if they deny how they have naturally been sexually imprinted. People who are heterosexual or homosexual do not change. It is you who wants people to live in denial as to who they are, and it is you who do not have the results of exhaustive research on his side. And this is shown by the fact that by and large society has listened to researchers and works to protect the rights of gay and lesbian people to not be harassed and harmed by haters like you.
Homosexuality was recognized as a disease from the dawn of time, until recently a few fagot "researchers" claimed it was normal.
I recall a re-run of MASH I saw where this uber right winger named Colonel Flagg... Being left handed was viewed as evil until recently also. Sinister comes from the Latin meaning left (handed).
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
#2. To: A K A Stone (#1)
#3. To: Ferret Mike (#2)
#4. To: A K A Stone (#3)
#5. To: Ferret Mike (#4)
#6. To: A K A Stone (#5)
#7. To: Ferret Mike (#6)
well vetted research shows; that homosexuality is just a normal variant of human sexuality.
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
Godwinson posted on 2011-02-23 11:47:32 ET
http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=18011&Disp=46#C46
#8. To: hondo68, Ferret Mike (#7)
Homosexuality was recognized as a disease from the dawn of time, until recently a few fagot "researchers" claimed it was normal.
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