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Title: the Founders’ views were quite complex
Source: Naked Capitalism
URL Source: http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011 ... 80%a6and-liberal-ones-too.html
Published: May 10, 2011
Author: Peripheral Visionary
Post Date: 2011-05-12 12:04:46 by lucysmom
Keywords: History, Founding Fathers, Social Democracy
Views: 2410
Comments: 4

It needs to be pointed out, however, that social democracy ultimately had its roots, not in the American revolutionary state, but in the French revolutionary state. That explains its particular emphasis on class, and its focus on the division between capital and labor; both were key features of Western Europe, but not as prevalent features of the American state, which was dominated by independent farmers and craftsmen (hence, with capital in many if not most instances being owned by labor, and therefore with only vaguely-defined class distinctions, the South being the major exception).

In the founding American state, the route to relief of poverty was not through the state (and it is difficult to believe such a thing would even have been considered), but rather through the frontier. The frontier served as an enabler of the otherwise disempowered, who by way of the homestead acts could secure property, independence, and the means of supporting themselves (all at the expense of Native Americans, of course–but then, redistribution programs are zero-sum and therefore always come at a cost to someone else). That “outlet” consistently relieved pressure on the impoverished areas of the East and the South, which would go a long way toward explaining why socialism gained little traction in the 19th Century. Only in the 20th Century, with the last of the frontier exhausted, could socialist tendencies, in the form of social progressivism, gain traction. When Steinbeck’s Joad family goes west in the California of the 193082;s, they find an oppressive class state; had they gone west just fifty years earlier, they would have found open land and opportunity.

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#1. To: Capitalist Eric, A K A Stone, Fred Mertz, Godwinson, go65, war, no gnu taxes, Skip Intro, ferret mike, jwpegler, brian s, mcgowanjm, mininggold (#0)

Interesting post as is the discussion following it.

The Republican budget goes after children and the poor. Courage would be going after defense and the rich. Bill Maher

lucysmom  posted on  2011-05-12   12:07:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: lucysmom (#1)

There is no such thing as 'social democracy', lady. What you mean is communism. Why do you always hide and misrepresent what you left wingers really mean? Is that the only way you can sell it?

war has to do something for entertainment. The voices in his head aren't speaking to him and his imaginary friends have found reasons not to come over anymore.

Rudgear  posted on  2011-05-12   12:40:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: lucysmom (#0)

In the founding American state, the route to relief of poverty was not through the state (and it is difficult to believe such a thing would even have been considered), but rather through the frontier.

"Go West, young man, go West. There is health in the country, and room away from our crowds of idlers and imbeciles." "That," I said, "is very frank advice, but it is medicine easier given than taken. It is a wide country, but I do not know just where to go." "It is all room away from the pavements. [...]" ” —- Josiah Bushnell Grinnell

"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"

Rek  posted on  2011-05-12   13:18:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: lucysmom (#0)

The Tea Party thus edits out an alternative view of government that prevailed among the ordinary 18th-century Americans who were all-important to achieving independence. Those Americans opposed elites epitomized by the Boston merchant class, which the Tea Party, perhaps appropriately enough, so strongly identifies with. The internal struggle for American equality was as important to the founding as the high-Whig resistance to England, but the Tea Party can’t deal with the populist leaders and militia rank-and-file who wrote the socially radical 1776 Pennsylvania Constitution, or the Shaysites of Massachusetts who marched on the state armory, or the so-called whiskey rebels who inspired federal occupation of western Pennsylvania. American Revolutionary patriots all, those democratic-finance leaders had ideas about government’s role in ensuring economic equality that prefigured programs of the 19th-century Populists and the 20th-century New Dealers, the very programs the Tea Party wants to dismantle. Tea Party history therefore has to expunge the welfare state’s roots in America’s founding.

If you lack an overall view of history - are unable to define the specifics ... I'm not surprised you'd resort to a --- marxian - kaleidoscope to create your own lsd zodiak lacking a north stable star !

If you ... don't use exclamation points --- you should't be typeing ! Commas - semicolons are for girlie boys !

BorisY  posted on  2011-05-12   14:28:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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