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Title: “Shooting an unarmed man in the face is consistent with American values.” — Tom Donilon, President Obama’s National Security Advisor.
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URL Source: http://fredhenstridge.blogspot.com/ ... has-turned-into-debate-on.html
Published: May 9, 2011
Author: fredhenstridge
Post Date: 2011-05-09 14:09:19 by no gnu taxes
Keywords: None
Views: 25277
Comments: 47
On Sunday on Chris Wallace of Fox News asked National Security Advisor Tom Donilon; “Why is shooting an unarmed man in the face legal and proper while enhanced interrogation, including waterboarding of a detainee under very strict conditions controls an limits, why is that over the line?” (You can see the question and Donilon’s reply beginning at 05:45 into the video clip) To paraphrase Donilon’s reply: Shooting of an unarmed man at the a time of war is consistent with our values while enhanced integration is not. (Note Donilon’s consistent eye blinking as he attempts to spin the admiration’s position of enhanced integration). When has shooting an unarmed combatant in the face consistent with our values? Had this been done by a soldier in the field he or she would have faced a courts material. This is the double speak to the highest degree — George Orwell would be pleased with Donilon’s performance. The killing of Osama bin Laden has created a series of dilemmas for the left. Bloggers on Human Events Red States have detailed the debt owed the Bush Administration which the current administration juvenilely and churlishly refuses to acknowledge (here | here). And many on the right are willing “to give the president credit” for doing his duty. According to reports bin Laden’s location has been known to the administration since March with the same degree of certainty that existed on May 1, so I fail to see what credit is really due unless we are saying that indecisiveness is a virtue. Bin Laden’s death will eventually be seen as the unofficial end of the U.S. assault on al Qaeda. We will leave a war not won and forsake a victory that would make the world a safer place simply because Barack Obama doesn’t have the guts to prevail. What is worse, he wants to give the impression of being serious. Intelligence is the key tool in fighting any war. Technical means are valuable but the only way you can obtain insights into the enemy’s operations and intentions is through prisoners. As Sun Tzu stated in the Art of War: “If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.” Taking prisoners and getting intelligence from them carries with it three implications: 1) you have a place to keep them, 2) you have a means to extract the information from them in a timely fashion, and 3) you have a plan for what to do with the prisoners when their intelligence value is exhausted. Even though Obama has backed off his efforts to close the prison at Guantanamo this does not mean he is supportive of its presence. In fact, the easy way to close the prison is to simply stop adding new prisoners while releasing those prisoners held. If you aren’t going to vigorously interrogate the prisoners, because as Leon Panetta reminds us waterboarding does work, why bother taking them in the first place. Lest anyone think this administration will relent on an policy that succeeded in keeping us safe you need look no further than this exchange at Ground Zero between Obama and a member of the 9/11 families group, Debra Burlingame. Debra Burlingame, the sister of Charles "Chic" Burlingame (pilot of the hijacked American Airlines Flight 77 that was flown into the into the Pentagon on 9/11) told Fox News Thursday that President Barack Obama turned his back on her during the 9/11 memorial when she attempted to engage him about the prosecution of the men who interrogated Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. “Burlingame said she confronted Obama about Attorney General Eric Holder's prosecuting the men, who probably produced intelligence leading us to bin Laden.” “Burlingame describes the encounter with Obama: "As a former attorney, I know you can't tell the attorney general what to do, he said, 'No, I can't.' But I said 'we — that shouldn't stop you from giving your opinion. We wouldn't be here today if they hadn't done their jobs. Can't you at least give them your opinion.' And he said 'no I won't,' and he turned around and walked away." As Jennifer Rubin notes in the Washington Post: “In addition to eliminating the very techniques that allowed us to track down and kill bin Laden, Obama has permitted the Justice Department to reopen investigation of previously cleared CIA operatives. Muskaey explains: “ I say ‘reopening’ advisedly because those investigations had all been formally closed by the end of 2007, with detailed memoranda prepared by career Justice Department prosecutors explaining why no charges were warranted. Attorney General Eric Holder conceded that he had ordered the investigations reopened in September 2009 without reading those memoranda. The investigations have now dragged on for years with prosecutors chasing allegations down rabbit holes, with the CIA along with the rest of the intelligence community left demoralized.” Having an animus against both holding and interrogating prisoners, the administration has developed a novel means of reducing prisoner intake while giving the illusion of actively pursuing al Qaeda. We have simply started killing people who we should be taking prisoner. First, let me say that I do not fault the SEALs for killing Osama bin Laden. In my view he falls into a unique category of prisoner whose continued presence would cause problems far beyond the value of any intelligence he could provide. Yet we hear, almost on a daily basis that some “high value target” has been killed by a missile attack from a UAV in Pakistan or some other country know to harbor Islamic terrorist. The Washington Post reports: “When a window of opportunity opened to strike the leader of al-Qaeda in East Africa last September, U.S. Special Operations forces prepared several options. They could obliterate his vehicle with an airstrike as he drove through southern Somalia. Or they could fire from helicopters that could land at the scene to confirm the kill. Or they could try to take him alive.” “The White House authorized the second option. On the morning of Sept. 14, helicopters flying from a U.S. ship off the Somali coast blew up a car carrying Saleh Ali Nabhan. While several hovered overhead, one set down long enough for troops to scoop up enough of the remains for DNA verification. Moments later, the helicopters were headed back to the ship.” “The strike was considered a major success, according to senior administration and military officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the classified operation and other sensitive matters. But the opportunity to interrogate one of the most wanted U.S. terrorism targets was gone forever.” “The Nabhan decision was one of a number of similar choices the administration has faced over the past year as President Obama has escalated U.S. attacks on the leadership of al-Qaeda and its allies around the globe. The result has been dozens of targeted killings and no reports of high-value detentions.” To say the least, this is not a man who has learned anything about fighting the War on Terror from the death of bin Laden, rather he sees the death of bin Laden as nothing more or less than a monkey that is no longer on his back and it gives him good reason to declare victory both in Afghanistan and in the War on Terror in general. Our ability to kill or capture terrorists, roll up their networks, and interfere with their operations is being degraded by the lack of fresh information while the administration continues to act like a T-Ball team, all the while talking about its “gutsy call.” During World War II two of the most critical achievements were the Allies’ ability to break the German and Japanese naval codes. Due to the British and American code breakers the Allies were able to win the Battle of The Atlantic, The Battle of Midway and the shoot down of Admiral Yamamoto. This was one of the best kept secrets of the war and gave the allies much needed intelligence to defeat the axis powers. While we celebrate the death of bin Laden, as we no doubt should, the Obama administration, with its policy of missile strikes is violating Sun Tzu rule of “knowing the enemy”. You can only do this by capture and the extraction of valuable intelligence. It’s time for the Obama administration to grow up and act like adults and stop campaigning on the War on Terror with their numerous and blabbering press conferences and TV appearances.
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#1. To: no gnu taxes (#0)
This is bullshit of the highest degree. If Bush had been president you'd be cheering this on. Idiot.
------------------------------------- Donilon didn't serve Owe-bama well in this interview. all he did was highlight the uber Liberal hypocrisy.
Mr President, its 72 virgins, not 72 VERSIONS.
Idiot." He never uses his Gnuddle whan he pots several dozen re-written news pieces to spin a favorite lie of his.
The vast majority did cheer when Owe-bama made his announcement, biffy. Left or Right, didn't matter. Of course, thats not what this article is about. Its about liberal hypocrisy, verging on shear lunacy. Liberal logic: You can shoot an unarmed man, in a country allgedly an ally, actining unilaterally. But you can't use non lethal waterboarding on him? Further, given all the testimony and statements from both parties stating that waterboarding (enhanced interrogation) WORKS...those that still want to pretend otherwise are in fact as self deluding as the birthers, truthers, or now the 'deathers'. Voters aren't missing this, not by a long shot.
Mr President, its 72 virgins, not 72 VERSIONS.
How about Conserva Nutzie logic that President Obama didn't kill Bin Laden except when it is time to gie the Smirk and Snarl show credit for this? If indeed you really do want to talk about hypocrisy, verging on shear lunacy that is.
It would be nice to be shown some definitive proof given that even the Kenyan has said that the odds anyone figured that Osama would actually be there were hardly more than 50/50.
Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??
You lost me. What does a Kenyan have to do with the discussion about a POTUS born in Hawaii, dumb shit? What is his name and what marathon did he win?
If indeed you really do want to talk about hypocrisy, verging on shear lunacy that is. I don't see that coming from anyone I take seriously on political matters. Honestly, I haven't even heard of that til you posted it. Maybe due to the silly code words your using?
Mr President, its 72 virgins, not 72 VERSIONS.
No, you fucking moron, it's not hypocrisy. You idiots are just stating it in a way you figger you can use to run down Obama. If it had happened on Bush's watch you'd see nothing wrong. Fucktard.
------------------------------------- That was the question. Maybe you'd like to answer it.
Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??
That's fair...if we are at war with Pakistan. Are we?
Gee, biffy, does your mom know you eat with that mouth? rotfl. Look up the term hypocrisy.
Mr President, its 72 virgins, not 72 VERSIONS.
The two things are quite different. First of all, it wasn't shooting an unarmed man in the face. It was a known criminal that had killed many citizens and was trying to kill many more. That's the context. Soldiers stormed a place where the guy was hiding to get him. Shooting him in the face is not an issue under these circumstances. If it wasn't ok to shoot him in the face it wasn't ok to go in and get him. Did you want them sent in with a policy to persuade him to come out and face trial? Second of all, allowing waterboarding is a whole policy of the country that would allow this torture as a fucking policy everywhere, as deemed necessary by those on the ground. So, you can easily say, 'No, we won't allow this as policy' and at the same time say, 'Ya, we'll go and shoot this fucker in the face' without hypocrisy. There not the same things at all. The first is a one time thing and the other is a long standing policy that would happen many times.
------------------------------------- Go back with the old ladies, boof. They think you're really something!
------------------------------------- Dick Cheney shot a man in the face also.....
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
Chuckles...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." We killed Yamamoto, Paddy...and we prosecuted some of his officers for waterboarding.
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." The people subjected to enhanced interrogation were known vicious criminals. Vicious criminals with information that could prevent further attacks. allowing waterboarding is a whole policy of the country that would allow this torture The waterboarding as performed, was done so in a very controlled manner under medical supervision. Not comfortable, and not meant to be, but not torture. And it has been proven to have provided very useful information.
Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??
Boofer seems to believe I had a bad weekend. His concern is...touching...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." I don't think 0bama or anyone deserves much applause for a "45/55%" confidence of capturing or killing OBL in GERONIMO. The President has in fact admitted to, 0bama is on record for stating as such. Are you aware of what this means?
I'm not sure I believe that. And allowing waterboarding, torture or not, would get out of control. A very specific incident of killing, like Bin Laden, was very much in control and not a blanket permission to go killing everyone that needs it. There's a big difference between the two and it's not hypocrisy to allow one and not the other.
------------------------------------- We killed Yamamoto, Paddy...and we prosecuted some of his officers for waterboarding. war, please focus. The issue here is denying credit to Obama because he is black and a Democrat and his existence is a direct threat to the "Birth of a Nation" KKK wing of the Republican crazed party.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
It was allowed and it didn't get out of control. It was performed on a total of 3 individuals.
Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??
Maybe, I don't know. I can't sustain interest long enough to give a fuck. I just think it's retarded the way liberals scream when Bush does something and don't say a word when Obama does it. And for some reason I hate it even more when so-called conservatives scream when Obama does something but would ignore it if Bush was doing it. It's fucking retarded.
------------------------------------- Hardly what was done to KSM.
Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??
Yep...the Japanese could have learned a thing or two from Boy Blunder...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." Oh biffy, lets not talk about your inability to have a relationship with the opposite sex, nor your mommy fixation. Its...embarassing to you. btw, no need for you to be envious.
Mr President, its 72 virgins, not 72 VERSIONS.
Try staying on topic. Oh, sorry...you are...well...'you'.
Mr President, its 72 virgins, not 72 VERSIONS.
Wait until the government JBTs decide that WE are the enemy, and take such measures. It WILL happen, sooner or later. We're mirroring history, dontcha' know... think of pre-WWII Nazi Germany, where the state is all-knowing, all-powerful, and anyone who says "no" is a traitor... What matters is that the pace of totalitarianism is increasing. And it is coming closer to our daily lives all the time. Once your state passes the enabling legislation (under threat of losing "federal welfare dollars"), it is YOUR name and Social Security number that will be entered in that employee database the moment you go to work for a new employer. It is YOU who will be unable to cash a check, board an airplane, get a passport or be allowed any dealings with any government agency if you refuse to give your SS number to the drivers license bureau. It is YOU who will be endangered by driving "illegally" if you refuse to submit to Big Brother's licensing procedures. It is YOU whose psoriasis, manic depression or prostate troubles will soon be the reading matter of any bureaucrat with a computer. It is YOU who could be declared a member of a "foreign terrorist" organization just because you bought a book or concert tickets from some group the government doesn't like. It is YOU who could lose your home, bank account and reputation because you made a mistake on a health insurance form. Finally, when you become truly desperate for freedom, it is YOU whose assets will be seized if you try to flee this increasingly insane country. As Ayn Rand said in Atlas Shrugged, "There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws." It's time to drop any pretense: We are no longer law-abiding citizens. We have lost our law-abiding status. There are simply too many laws to abide. And because of increasingly draconian penalties and electronic tracking mechanisms, our "lawbreaking" places us and our families in greater jeopardy every day. STOPPING RUNAWAY GOVERNMENT The question is: What are we going to do about it? Write a nice, polite letter to your congressperson? Hey, if you think that'll help, I've got a bridge you might be interested in buying. (And it isn't your "bridge to the future," either.) Vote "better people" into office? Oh yeah, that's what we thought we were doing in 1994. Work to fight one bad bill or another? Okay. What will you do about the 10 or 20 or 100 equally horrible bills that will be passed behind your back while you were fighting that little battle? And let's say you defeat a nightmare bill this year. What are you going to do when they sneak it back in, at the very last minute, in some "omnibus legislation" next year? And what about the horrors you don't even learn about until two or three years after they become law? Should you try fighting these laws in the courts? Where do you find the resources? Where do you find a judge who doesn't have a vested interest in bigger, more powerful government? And again, for every one case decided in favor of freedom, what do you do about the 10, 20 or 100 in which the courts decide against the Bill of Rights? Perhaps you'd consider trying to stop the onrush of these horrors with a constitutional amendment -- maybe one that bans "omnibus" bills, requires that every law meet a constitutional test or requires all congresspeople to sign statements that they've read and understood every aspect of every bill on which they vote. Good luck! Good luck , first, on getting such an amendment passed. Then good luck getting our Constitution-scorning "leaders" to obey it. It is true that liberty requires eternal vigilance, and that part of that vigilance has been, traditionally, keeping a watchful eye on laws and on lawbreaking lawmakers. But given the current pace of law spewing and unconstitutional regulation- writing, you could watch, plead and struggle "within the system" 24 hours a day for your entire life and end up infinitely less free than when you began. Why throw your life away on a futile effort? Face it. If "working within the system" could halt tyranny, the tyrants would outlaw it. Why do you think they encourage you to vote, to write letters, to talk to them in public forums? It's to divert your energies. To keep you tame. "The system" as it presently exists is nothing but a rat maze. You run around thinking you're getting somewhere. Your masters occasionally reward you with a little pellet that encourages you to believe you're accomplishing something. And in the meantime, you are as much their property and their pawn as if you were a slave. In the effort of fighting them on their terms and with their authorized and approved tools, you have given your life's energy to them as surely as if you were toiling in their cotton fields, under the lash of their overseer. The only way we're going to get off this road to Hell is if we jump off. If we, personally, as individuals, refuse to cooperate with evil. How we do that is up to each of us. I can't decide for you, nor you for me. (Unlike congresspeople, who think they can decide for everybody.) But this totalitarian runaway truck is never going to stop unless we stop it, in any way we can. Stopping it might include any number of things: tax resistance; public civil disobedience; wide-scale, silent non-cooperation; highly noisy non- cooperation; boycotts; secession efforts; monkey-wrenching; computer hacking; dirty tricks against government agents; public shunning of employees of abusive government agencies; alternative, self-sufficient communities that provide their own medical care and utilities. There are thousands of avenues to take, and this is something most of us still need to give more thought to before we can build an effective resistance. We will each choose the courses that are right for our own circumstances, personalities and beliefs. Whatever we do, though, we must remember that we are all, already, outlaws. Not one of us can be certain of getting through a single day without violating some law or regulation we've never even heard of. We are all guilty in the eyes of today's "law." If someone in power chooses to target us, we can all, already, be prosecuted for *something*. And I'm sure you know that your claims of "good intentions" won't protect you, as the similar claims of politicians protect them. Politicians are above the law. YOU are under it. Crushed under it. When you look at it that way, we have little left to lose by breaking laws *creatively and purposefully*. Yes, some of us will suffer horrible consequences for our lawbreaking. It is very risky to actively resist unbridled power. It is especially risky to go public with resistance (unless hundreds of thousands publicly join us), and it becomes riskier the closer we get to tyranny. For that reason, among many others, I would never recommend any particular course of action to anyone -- and I hope you'll think twice before taking "advice" from anybody about things that could jeopardize your life or well-being. But if we don't resist in the best ways we know how -- and if a good number of us don't resist loudly and publicly -- all of us will suffer the much worse consequence of living under total oppression. And whatever courses of action we choose, we must remember that this legislative "revolution" against We the People will not be stopped by politeness. It will not be stopped by requests. It will not be stopped by "working within a system" governed by those who regard us as nothing but cattle. It will not be stopped by pleading for justice from those who will resort to any degree of trickery or violence to rule us. It will not be stopped unless we are willing to risk our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honors to stop it. I think of the words of Winston Churchill: "If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed, if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not so costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no chance of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." List of those unable to think: Does anyone actually read the crap Erica posts?
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." Dick Cheney shot a man in the face also..... Try staying on topic. Oh, Ok. Cheney shot an innocent man in the face. Obama got Osama shot in the face by SEAL Team 6. Obama wins. How is that for on topic?
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
Nope, scroll, scroll, scroll.
------------------------------------- I know YOU don't. Your lips get too tired.
List of those unable to think: I heard that 55/45 chance when I watched the 60 Minutes interview last night. My mind said bullshit, he's lying. It was more like 95/5 percent in my mind. The 55/45 makes it seem like a very risky mission and that's why he said it IMO.
You type with your lips...you read with your eyes...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." As usually is the case, you demonstrate a kook can't stay on topic, especially when cornered. have a nice day.
Mr President, its 72 virgins, not 72 VERSIONS.
As with the vast majority of leftist/socialists, you THINK you think. You don't. With every post to me, you PROVE that, beyond any measure of doubt. Wanna' continue demonstrating that you're a worthless, mindless piece of shit? Go ahead, show me how SMART you think you are... (you're not) Show me how WITTY you are (you're as witty as a bowling-ball is "sharp") Come on, SHOW me something... DEMONSTRATE that you don't have your head firmly planted up your ass! Come on, PROVE IT!!! Don't worry... I won't hold my breath. AKA should have flushed your pathetically-ignorant-yet-shockingly-arrogant ass LONG ago... After all, you don't bother to THINK, you emote. You're a worthless steaming pile of cow-shit. Every post you put up, simply demonstrates that. I wouldn't piss on your face, if you were on fire.
List of those unable to think: You're full of rage, son. Grow up.
------------------------------------- Oh, the irony....rotflmao.
Proxy IP's are amusing.....lmao
I only have fleeting, shallow rage, nothing serious and easily dissipated. You only have fleeting, shallow thoughts, nothing serious or worth considering.
------------------------------------- Too funny, I guess he didn't realize he also made "the list".
Comments (42 - 47) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestThis is the double speak to the highest degree
Why don't you make like a tree and get out of here?
#2. To: no gnu taxes (#0)
#3. To: Biff Tannen (#1)
"This is bullshit of the highest degree. If Bush had been president you'd be cheering this on.
#4. To: Biff Tannen (#1)
#5. To: Badeye (#4)
#6. To: Ferret Mike (#5)
that President Obama didn't kill Bin Laden
#7. To: no gnu taxes (#6)
#8. To: Ferret Mike (#5)
How about Conserva Nutzie logic that President Obama didn't kill Bin Laden except when it is time to gie the Smirk and Snarl show credit for this?
#9. To: Badeye (#4)
Why don't you make like a tree and get out of here?
#10. To: Biff Tannen (#9)
“Why is shooting an unarmed man in the face legal and proper while enhanced interrogation, including waterboarding of a detainee under very strict conditions controls and limits, why is that over the line?”
#11. To: no gnu taxes (#0)
Shooting of an unarmed man at the a time of war
#12. To: Biff Tannen (#9)
No, you fucking moron, it's not hypocrisy.
#13. To: no gnu taxes (#10)
That was the question. Maybe you'd like to answer it.
Why don't you make like a tree and get out of here?
#14. To: Badeye (#12)
Why don't you make like a tree and get out of here?
#15. To: no gnu taxes, war, Badeye, Ferret Mike, Biff Tannen (#0)
“Shooting an unarmed man in the face is consistent with American values.” — Tom Donilon, President Obama’s National Security Advisor.
#16. To: Godwinson (#15)
--GW Bush
#17. To: no gnu taxes (#10)
--GW Bush
#18. To: Biff Tannen (#13)
First of all, it wasn't shooting an unarmed man in the face. It was a known criminal that had killed many citizens and was trying to kill many more. That's the context.
#19. To: Biff Tannen (#14)
--GW Bush
#20. To: Biff Tannen (#9)
You idiots are just stating it in a way you figger you can use to run down Obama.
The ends justify the means
#21. To: no gnu taxes (#18)
And it has been proven to have provided very useful information.
Why don't you make like a tree and get out of here?
#22. To: war, no gnu taxes (#17)
To: no gnu taxes
#23. To: Biff Tannen (#21)
And allowing waterboarding, torture or not, would get out of control.
#24. To: no gnu taxes (#23)
(Edited)
Why don't you make like a tree and get out of here?
#25. To: war (#17)
During the Japanese occupation of Singapore the Double Tenth Incident occurred. This included waterboarding, by the method of binding or holding down the victim on his back, placing a cloth over his mouth and nose, and pouring water onto the cloth. In this version, interrogation continued during the torture, with the interrogators beating the victim if he did not reply and the victim swallowing water if he opened his mouth to answer or breathe. When the victim could ingest no more water, the interrogators would beat or jump on his distended stomach.
#26. To: no gnu taxes (#25)
--GW Bush
#27. To: Biff Tannen (#14)
Go back with the old ladies, boof. They think you're really something!
#28. To: Godwinson (#15)
Dick Cheney shot a man in the face also.....
#29. To: no gnu taxes (#0)
Donilon’s reply: Shooting of an unarmed man at the a time of war is consistent with our values ...
It matters not one whit whether the people controlling you call themselves R's or D's, liberals or conservatives, socialists or even (I hate to admit it) libertarians. It doesn't matter whether they vote for these horrors because they're not paying attention or because they actually like such things.
Claire Wolfe, "Landmine Legislation in the 104th Congress" 
mcgowanjm, ferret mike, skippy, fartboy/yukko, white sands, bucky, lucys idiot mom, e_type_jackoff, go56, badlie, wreck, calCON, Kafir, war, Banjo Boris, Biff, Godwinson and meguro. If you're on the above list...? PISS OFF.
#30. To: Capitalist Eric, All (#29)
--GW Bush
#31. To: Badeye, war, go65, lucysmom (#28)
#32. To: war (#30)
Why don't you make like a tree and get out of here?
#33. To: war (#30)
Does anyone actually read the crap Erica posts?
mcgowanjm, ferret mike, skippy, fartboy/yukko, white sands, bucky, lucys idiot mom, e_type_jackoff, go56, badlie, wreck, calCON, Kafir, war, Banjo Boris, Biff, Godwinson and meguro. If you're on the above list...? PISS OFF.
#34. To: buckeroo (#20)
I don't think 0bama or anyone deserves much applause for a "45/55%" confidence of capturing or killing OBL in GERONIMO. The President has in fact admitted to,
#35. To: Capitalist Eric (#33)
Your lips get too tired.
--GW Bush
#36. To: Godwinson (#31)
#37. To: war (#35)
mcgowanjm, ferret mike, skippy, fartboy/yukko, white sands, bucky, lucys idiot mom, e_type_jackoff, go56, badlie, wreck, calCON, Kafir, war, Banjo Boris, Biff, Godwinson and meguro. If you're on the above list...? PISS OFF. Bumper sticker on DwarF's car:
#38. To: Capitalist Eric (#37)
Why don't you make like a tree and get out of here?
#39. To: Biff Tannen (#38)
#40. To: Badeye (#39)
(Edited)
Why don't you make like a tree and get out of here?
#41. To: Biff Tannen (#40)
You only having fleeting, shallow thoughts, nothing serious or worth considering
.
.
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