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Title: Hmmm, Do I “Want to Believe?”
Source:
constitutionclub.org
URL Source: http://constitutionclub.org/2011/05/04/hmmm-do-i-want-to-believe/
Published: May 5, 2011
Author: Regalo Di Spine
Post Date: 2011-05-05 02:01:58 by socalv8
Keywords: ulsterman, osama, obama
Views: 113940
Comments: 162
I have to admit, I read the some of the early Ulsterman articles. Have you? I should clarify though, I’ve always thought his articles only represented a clever fiction. The unknown author, the unidentified DC insider, the high level of information covering a broad spectrum partisan politics that cannot be confirmed, all of it screams fantasy. However, I have to wonder if it is possible that a political fiction, presented in Ulsterman’s Deep Throat style of outing interesting insider information, could end up proving prescient. Ulsterman’s May 3rd post on the inside workings of the operation to kill or capture OBL, prior to and following the execution of the mission, paints a picture of a President with little ability to make a decision on his own. It also attempts to paint key administration officials at Intelligence, State, and Defense (Panetta, Clinton, and Gates) as the actual movers and shakers in the mission to take out OBL. Like I said, I normally chalk up Ulsterman’s writings as simple fantasy but, even if the entire story came to him in a dream on May 2nd, it is crafted in such a way that it almost seems to be tracking right along side the news cycle rather than following it. In the three days following a significant benchmark in this country’s war against terrorism, the story about how it occurred, from planning to implementation, and even what is going to happen next, seems to be passing through a sieve as it’s being presented to public for consumption. A source here, a source there, speaking on the condition of anonymity, is sharing interesting information. Then, even clearly identified sources add their sound bites sending the press to push out the newest piece of the puzzle as soon as possible. But before the news cycle has ended, much of this information has been filtered out leaving fresh tidbits to replace unwelcomed narrative. As I mentioned in a previous post, this type of handling of the message breeds theories that there are alternatives to the official story. But, if you look at it in the context of Ulsterman’s article, the sifting of the official story almost seem to add credence to some of the elements of his report. Leon Panetta tells us the photo of a dead OBL is coming, the White House says, “No way.” John Brennan, Deputy National Security Advisor (read – an administration czar), tells the press that OBL was armed, that there was a firefight, and OBL shielded himself behind a woman. Then unidentified sources at the Pentagon claim BS on that, stating OBL was unarmed – this is followed by the White House issuing a more “textured account” of events on the ground, including a statement that OBL was unarmed. Plus, we’ve heard from the President that his decision making was extra decisive after taking nine months to confirm the intelligence about OBL’s location. Yet, at least one press outlet has published a report that suggests that the President wasn’t as decisive has he let on, still needing a little extra time to think on things before taking action. Without having read Ulsterman’s report, I would take all of the above to indicate several things; chief among them, there is no single point within the White House directing the narrative. This suggests that either central leadership within the administration is weak or the role of leader is up for grabs. I have to admit, I read the some of the early Ulsterman articles. Have you? I should clarify though, I’ve always thought his articles only represented a clever fiction. The unknown author, the unidentified DC insider, the high level of information covering a broad spectrum partisan politics that cannot be confirmed, all of it screams fantasy. However, I have to wonder if it is possible that a political fiction, presented in Ulsterman’s Deep Throat style of outing interesting insider information, could end up proving prescient. Ulsterman’s May 3rd post on the inside workings of the operation to kill or capture OBL, prior to and following the execution of the mission, paints a picture of a President with little ability to make a decision on his own. It also attempts to paint key administration officials at Intelligence, State, and Defense (Panetta, Clinton, and Gates) as the actual movers and shakers in the mission to take out OBL. Like I said, I normally chalk up Ulsterman’s writings as simple fantasy but, even if the entire story came to him in a dream on May 2nd, it is crafted in such a way that it almost seems to be tracking right along side the news cycle rather than following it. In the three days following a significant benchmark in this country’s war against terrorism, the story about how it occurred, from planning to implementation, and even what is going to happen next, seems to be passing through a sieve as it’s being presented to public for consumption. A source here, a source there, speaking on the condition of anonymity, is sharing interesting information. Then, even clearly identified sources add their sound bites sending the press to push out the newest piece of the puzzle as soon as possible. But before the news cycle has ended, much of this information has been filtered out leaving fresh tidbits to replace unwelcomed narrative. As I mentioned in a previous post, this type of handling of the message breeds theories that there are alternatives to the official story. But, if you look at it in the context of Ulsterman’s article, the sifting of the official story almost seem to add credence to some of the elements of his report. Leon Panetta tells us the photo of a dead OBL is coming, the White House says, “No way.” John Brennan, Deputy National Security Advisor (read – an administration czar), tells the press that OBL was armed, that there was a firefight, and OBL shielded himself behind a woman. Then unidentified sources at the Pentagon claim BS on that, stating OBL was unarmed – this is followed by the White House issuing a more “textured account” of events on the ground, including a statement that OBL was unarmed. Plus, we’ve heard from the President that his decision making was extra decisive after taking nine months to confirm the intelligence about OBL’s location. Yet, at least one press outlet has published a report that suggests that the President wasn’t as decisive has he let on, still needing a little extra time to think on things before taking action. Without having read Ulsterman’s report, I would take all of the above to indicate several things; chief among them, there is no single point within the White House directing the narrative. This suggests that either central leadership within the administration is weak or the role of leader is up for grabs. Even if Ulsterman’s report is no more than some blogger’s effort at drawing conclusions from the facts at hand, this administration is doing a fine job outing itself as an organization fraught with internal conflicts. If things keep going this way, it won’t take an unidentified insider to prove it to us.
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#62. To: war, no gnu taxes, ferret mike, lucysmom, godwinson, rek, jwpegler, badeye, skip intro, fred mertz, rudgear, a k a stone (#58)
(Edited)
Here's the bottom line: Barack Obama put his entire presidency on the line last weekend when he ordered the commando assault of Bin Laden's compound. He could have taken the easy way out and ordered a bombing, but instead he chose the most difficult option because he correctly calculated that we needed proof that we had actually gotten Bin Laden. Had the mission failed. Had the stalled chopper crashed in mid-flight, had the two helicopters collided like in 1979, or had Bin Laden not been there, he would have been deemed a failure. His presidency would have been over, and he would have walked off into the sunset in 2012. Instead the mission is a success and the entire Republican narrative of Obama as a weak, vacillating leader who won't take risks and can't make up his mind is gone. Out the window, never to be seen again. This is driving Republicans up a wall as we see from the posters here and the GOP pundits on TV/Radio, trying to do everything they can to spin this as "Obama doesn't deserve any credit." That's false and they know it. What really eats them up is the fact that the mission succeeded. They, deep in their hearts wish that Bin Laden slipped away among the wreckage of dead SEALs and downed choppers because it would have damaged Obama beyond repair. That, IMHO, is utterly disgusting.
"Thats because your basically and idiot." HA HA...caught it before you did!!!!
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." You nailed exactly their Republican mindset.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
I don't think that is true. When the mansion (the US government affectionately calls the mansion a "compound") was built there were no hard lines for telephone services or the Internet. That doesn't preclude cellular devices or other wireless methods of communications. Since the mansion was expensive by Pakistani standards it is conceivable that wireless methods of information sharing was employed. And those same methods of communication were encrypted thus ensuring some immunity from extraneous sources such as government snooping.
There was satellite dishes for TV and cell phones were found.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
U.S. Department of Justice White Paper on NSA Legal Authorities "Legal Authorities Supporting the Activities of the National Security Agency Described by the President"
Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??
Excellent analysis. Thanks!
Why? Bush did a great job, if in fact bi Laden was killed.
Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??
I agree. Badeye for instance, is all ate up with the goofies because he has all these Jimmy Carter comparisons he can't use.
------------------------------------- Bravo...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." Muddying the waters again, Padlock. The issue that you linked to was DOMESTIC EAVESDROPPING by the NSA.
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." But the mission DID fail. Here is why: there is large speculation about the changes to the original "official story" coupled with international law abuses BEYOND conclusive proof that OBL was even assassinated. Again, the mission failed; it was botched; it has been modified by all accounts because 0bama does not know how to lead a team and then publicize the results in an official manner.
There was no domestic eavesdropping. It was all about foriegn terrorists and MAY have include calls to domestic recipients from them.
Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??
As was pointed out, BULLSHIT. There was not only eavesdropping but data mining as well.
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." OBL is dead bucky...finis...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." U.S. Department of Justice White Paper on NSA Legal Authorities "Legal Authorities Supporting the Activities of the National Security Agency Described by the President" Refer to the USDOJ White Paper on the matter which says anyone who claims this was domestic spying is full of it.
Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??
and we didn't land on the moon either. And certainly 9/11 was a government setup because early reports said a small plane crashed into the towers. Sorry, I'm not one for conspiracy theories. War is a messy game and initial accounts of action usually aren't accurate.
"Thats because your basically and idiot." Not according to my sources. He is whooping IT up in a downtown Las Vegas casino right now while Elvis Presley is outside pan-handling for a photograph.
This wasn't war as is classically know in a battlefield situation. It was government sponsored MURDER with top US government officials holding their breath that they had the right data. Because there is no REAL official result, there is only one conclusion: it was a botched operation from the top down. And 0bama is in deep DOODOO with international relations on all fronts. As for the WINWIN situation, here.... shall we see America packing its own troops up from Afghanistan and Iraq or shall America continue for another ten years?
I respectfully disagree.
"Thats because your basically and idiot." "We have investigated ourselves and after a painstaking review of all the evidence...it is clear that we did NOTHING wrong." /asshole And I guess that ATT and Verizon et al admitting that they turned over their customer records was a bunch of lies.
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." That year, the court said a government agent listening to a private phone call was the equivalent of a search. That ruling, in Katz vs. United States, required police and federal agents thereafter to obtain a search warrant from a judge before they wiretapped a phone. Still, phone records are not the same as phone conversations, and the high court refused to extend the privacy protections of the 4th Amendment to a list of dialed phone numbers. "We doubt that people in general entertain any actual expectation of privacy in the [phone] number they dial," the court said in the 1979 case of Smith vs. Maryland. This ruling gave the police freedom to obtain phone records without a warrant. To close that loophole, Congress enacted the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, forbidding the phone companies to divulge phone records. The law includes several exceptions. For example, phone records may be disclosed "with the lawful consent of the customer." Another exception involves "any emergency involving danger of death or serious physical injury." In such a situation, the "provider in good faith" may give the requested phone records to a government official. Bush administration officials have argued they faced such a national emergency after the Sept. 11 attacks in 2001. Many people feared another terrorist attack within the United States, and officials were anxious to quickly gather information. Bush was correct in his actions. I would ask that you just shut up and say "thank you." And the phone providers voluntarily submitted the information
Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??
Fuck Bush.
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." I respectfully disagree. One might say he was terminated with extreme prejudice.
The Republican budget goes after children and the poor. Courage would be going after defense and the rich. Bill Maher
It is disgusting and more than a little frightening how far some are willing to go to see one man destroyed.
The Republican budget goes after children and the poor. Courage would be going after defense and the rich. Bill Maher
I am glad you finally are feeling regret about how you leftards treated President Bush.
Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??
I questioned Bush's judgment, not his citizenship, sexual identity, patriotism, or parentage. In general, Laura was treated much better by the left than either Hillary or Michelle has been treated by the right - were there any equivalents from the left of "Manchelle", "first Wookiee", or "Hitlery" applied to Laura?
The Republican budget goes after children and the poor. Courage would be going after defense and the rich. Bill Maher
Your admonishment and immediate engagement in much the the allegedly bad way Bush was deservedly treated by his critics shows just how empty your words usually are. Bush by far was the worst president in my lifetime. But people such as myself worry that someday an even worse person might get into the White House. So we need to have to watch what candidate emerges in the GOP field and not give then any quarter when the screw up. We need also need to ruthlessly and intensely work to get rid of tyrants on the state level like Scott Walker of Wisconsin and others. We don't need any more pander to the rich and corporate elite Presidents like Bush, who should be in prison for many of his crimes that he still needs to be accountable for; including his full scall invasion of Iraq under the pretentin it had something to do with 9 11.
Does that mean you questioned Obama's judgement as he has continued Bush's course on just about everything. not his citizenship, sexual identity, patriotism, or parentage. And Obama has brought that on himself by his own statements, secrecies, and actions.
Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??
I'll let you know when the smoke clears and the last chapter of his presidency has bee written. And Obama has brought that on himself by his own statements, secrecies, and actions. Secrecies? That's largely a fiction made up by the right.
The Republican budget goes after children and the poor. Courage would be going after defense and the rich. Bill Maher
rationalization The last chapter isn't often written until decades later. You already decided about Bush before his Presidency was ever complete.
Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??
He invaded Iraq against my best advice. He made the decision to abandon a balanced budget for tax cuts. He started two wars with no plan to pay for either.
The Republican budget goes after children and the poor. Courage would be going after defense and the rich. Bill Maher
All he did was provide a birth certificate and you guys created a game about short forms that are very common and legal that was just a waste of time and in and of itself was responsible for the controversy. It is the hight of hypocrisy that he started it, by rightfully defending himself by opportunistic and mean spirited attacks with a racist component to them.
Who did you ever advise? He simply acted upon the intelligence info that even the Democrats agreed with going back to Clinton's bonbings in 1998. He made the decision to abandon a balanced budget for tax cuts That is not a one or the other situation. Obama agreed to extend the Bush tax cuts. Are you giving up on Obama, too? He started two wars with no plan to pay for either. I see your hero has no plans for ending either. And under enormous criticism, Bush authorized the surge which completely turned Iraq around. Obama was against it before Bush's success.
Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??
I am sure some Democrats agreed and some were intimidated by the climate of fear the Bush administration nurtured - "you hate Bush and you hate America". The weapons inspectors, the guys on the ground, did not find evidence to back the administrations "intelligence", and asked for more time. That is not a one or the other situation. Obama agreed to extend the Bush tax cuts. Are you giving up on Obama, too? Yep, the congressional two year olds had him by the short hairs and Obama capitulated. I see your hero has no plans for ending either. And under enormous criticism, Bush authorized the surge which completely turned Iraq around. Obama was against it before Bush's success. Obama is my hero? Gosh, I learn such interesting things about my thoughts and feelings from the right wing mind readers. Thank you for sharing my thoughts and feelings with me.
The Republican budget goes after children and the poor. Courage would be going after defense and the rich. Bill Maher
Bush was a weapon of mass confusion that never should of invaded Iraq. All the surge was show creativity in labeling an escalation of forces for an illegal and immoral conflict Bush is criminally responsible for starting wasting lives and trillions of dollars in the commision of conducting it.
I am starting to think no gnu taxes stole your password and is acting as your sockpuppet.
It is the hight of hypocrisy that he started it, by rightfully defending himself by opportunistic and mean spirited attacks with a racist component to them. If you're talking about that amaturish document he had posted at whitehouse.gov, then I know you didn't do any research on it yourself, you took it at face value. I downloaded it from his website and transfered to my adobe and saw it for the miserable fraud it was. But I think that is beside the point after I discovered what Congress did to McCain when he decided to run in 08', he was raked over the coals over his eligibility. Congress tried to settle McCains Natural Born status by passing a resolution…. In doing so they, have proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that Obama was ineligible to be POTUS. The question that bugs the shit out of most people who can still think for themselves is, 'why McCain, and not Obama'? If you want to see the proof I will provide it, all of it, just say so, but something tells me you wouldn't know the thruth even if you staring at the 'resolution'! The loonie left and ignorant people like you are the ones who make this into a race issue, but none of you had a damn thing to say when it happened to McCain, WHY! Dispute what I say with facts, not inuendo's, or, 'what you think', because you don't think!
He is so perceptive; he knows me better than I know myself.
The Republican budget goes after children and the poor. Courage would be going after defense and the rich. Bill Maher
The Democrat warnings go back to 1998. Explain how GOVERNOR Bush intimidated them. The obvious answer is they saw the same intelligence warnings Bush saw and didn't want to miss out on the limelight. Yep, the congressional two year olds had him by the short hairs and Obama capitulated. I guess that means you realize he is nothing but a self serving politician. Good strategy for a Dim, but hypocrisy for the GOP, right?
Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??
Yet Obama promised to end, but continues.
Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??
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Badeye posted on 2011-04-29 10:30:22 ET
#63. To: Murron (#54)
#54. To: buckeroo (#52) (Edited)
--GW Bush
#64. To: go65 (#62)
#65. To: war (#60)
Osama bin Laden's compound in Pakistan had no mobile phones or computer links
#66. To: buckeroo (#65)
(Edited)
That doesn't preclude cellular devices or other wireless methods of communications.
#67. To: war (#58)
The authorized intercepts are not domestic but rather foreign intelligence integral to the conduct of war and that the warrant requirements of FISA were implicitly superseded by the subsequent passage of the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Terrorists (AUMF)
#68. To: go65 (#62)
#69. To: go65 (#62)
(Edited)
What really eats them up is the fact that the mission succeeded.
#70. To: go65 (#62)
They, deep in their hearts wish that Bin Laden slipped away among the wreckage of dead SEALs and downed choppers because it would have damaged Obama beyond repair.
Why don't you make like a tree and get out of here?
#71. To: go65 (#62)
--GW Bush
#72. To: no gnu taxes (#67)
--GW Bush
#73. To: go65 (#62)
Had the mission failed.
#74. To: war (#72)
#75. To: no gnu taxes (#74)
There was no domestic eavesdropping.
--GW Bush
#76. To: buckeroo (#73)
--GW Bush
#77. To: war (#75)
The authorized intercepts are not domestic but rather foreign intelligence integral to the conduct of war and that the warrant requirements of FISA were implicitly superseded by the subsequent passage of the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Terrorists (AUMF)
#78. To: buckeroo (#73)
But the mission DID fail. Here is why: there is large speculation about the changes to the original "official story" coupled with international law abuses BEYOND conclusive proof that OBL was even assassinated.
Badeye posted on 2011-04-29 10:30:22 ET
#79. To: war (#76)
OBL is dead
#80. To: go65 (#78)
War is a messy game and initial accounts of action usually aren't accurate.
#81. To: buckeroo (#80)
This wasn't war as is classically know in a battlefield situation. It was government sponsored MURDER with top US government officials holding their breath that they had the right data.
Badeye posted on 2011-04-29 10:30:22 ET
#82. To: no gnu taxes (#77)
Refer to the USDOJ White Paper
--GW Bush
#83. To: war (#82)
The 4th Amendment forbids "unreasonable searches and seizures" by the government. But until 1967, a search was generally limited to the police entering a home.
#84. To: no gnu taxes (#83)
--GW Bush
#85. To: go65, buckeroo (#81)
This wasn't war as is classically know in a battlefield situation. It was government sponsored MURDER with top US government officials holding their breath that they had the right data.
#86. To: go65 (#62)
What really eats them up is the fact that the mission succeeded. They, deep in their hearts wish that Bin Laden slipped away among the wreckage of dead SEALs and downed choppers because it would have damaged Obama beyond repair. That, IMHO, is utterly disgusting.
#87. To: lucysmom (#86)
It is disgusting and more than a little frightening how far some are willing to go to see one man destroyed.
#88. To: no gnu taxes (#87)
I am glad you finally are feeling regret about how you leftards treated President Bush.
#89. To: no gnu taxes (#87)
"...leftards..."
#90. To: lucysmom (#88)
(Edited)
I questioned Bush's judgment
#91. To: no gnu taxes (#90)
Does that mead you questioned Obama's judgement as he has continued Bush's course on just about everything.
#92. To: lucysmom (#91)
I'll let you know when the smoke clears and the last chapter of his presidency has bee written.
#93. To: no gnu taxes (#92)
You already decided about Bush before his Presidency was ever complete.
#94. To: no gnu taxes (#90)
"And Obama has brought that on himself by his own statements, secrecies, and actions."
#95. To: lucysmom (#93)
He invaded Iraq against my best advice.
#96. To: no gnu taxes (#95)
He simply acted upon the intelligence info that even the Democrats agreed with going back to Clinton's bonbings in 1998.
#97. To: no gnu taxes (#95)
"I see your hero has no plans for ending either. And under enormous criticism, Bush authorized the surge which completely turned Iraq around. Obama was against it before Bush's success."
#98. To: lucysmom, no gnu taxes (#96)
Thank you for sharing my thoughts and feelings with me.
#99. To: Ferret Mike, no gnu taxes, ALL (#94)
All he did was provide a birth certificate and you guys created a game about short forms that are very common and legal that was just a waste of time and in and of itself was responsible for the controversy.
#100. To: buckeroo (#98)
#101. To: lucysmom (#96)
I am sure some Democrats agreed and some were intimidated by the climate of fear the Bush administration
#102. To: Ferret Mike (#97)
All the surge was show creativity in labeling an escalation of forces for an illegal and immoral conflict Bush is criminally responsible for
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