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Title: Hmmm, Do I “Want to Believe?”
Source:
constitutionclub.org
URL Source: http://constitutionclub.org/2011/05/04/hmmm-do-i-want-to-believe/
Published: May 5, 2011
Author: Regalo Di Spine
Post Date: 2011-05-05 02:01:58 by socalv8
Keywords: ulsterman, osama, obama
Views: 112318
Comments: 162
I have to admit, I read the some of the early Ulsterman articles. Have you? I should clarify though, I’ve always thought his articles only represented a clever fiction. The unknown author, the unidentified DC insider, the high level of information covering a broad spectrum partisan politics that cannot be confirmed, all of it screams fantasy. However, I have to wonder if it is possible that a political fiction, presented in Ulsterman’s Deep Throat style of outing interesting insider information, could end up proving prescient. Ulsterman’s May 3rd post on the inside workings of the operation to kill or capture OBL, prior to and following the execution of the mission, paints a picture of a President with little ability to make a decision on his own. It also attempts to paint key administration officials at Intelligence, State, and Defense (Panetta, Clinton, and Gates) as the actual movers and shakers in the mission to take out OBL. Like I said, I normally chalk up Ulsterman’s writings as simple fantasy but, even if the entire story came to him in a dream on May 2nd, it is crafted in such a way that it almost seems to be tracking right along side the news cycle rather than following it. In the three days following a significant benchmark in this country’s war against terrorism, the story about how it occurred, from planning to implementation, and even what is going to happen next, seems to be passing through a sieve as it’s being presented to public for consumption. A source here, a source there, speaking on the condition of anonymity, is sharing interesting information. Then, even clearly identified sources add their sound bites sending the press to push out the newest piece of the puzzle as soon as possible. But before the news cycle has ended, much of this information has been filtered out leaving fresh tidbits to replace unwelcomed narrative. As I mentioned in a previous post, this type of handling of the message breeds theories that there are alternatives to the official story. But, if you look at it in the context of Ulsterman’s article, the sifting of the official story almost seem to add credence to some of the elements of his report. Leon Panetta tells us the photo of a dead OBL is coming, the White House says, “No way.” John Brennan, Deputy National Security Advisor (read – an administration czar), tells the press that OBL was armed, that there was a firefight, and OBL shielded himself behind a woman. Then unidentified sources at the Pentagon claim BS on that, stating OBL was unarmed – this is followed by the White House issuing a more “textured account” of events on the ground, including a statement that OBL was unarmed. Plus, we’ve heard from the President that his decision making was extra decisive after taking nine months to confirm the intelligence about OBL’s location. Yet, at least one press outlet has published a report that suggests that the President wasn’t as decisive has he let on, still needing a little extra time to think on things before taking action. Without having read Ulsterman’s report, I would take all of the above to indicate several things; chief among them, there is no single point within the White House directing the narrative. This suggests that either central leadership within the administration is weak or the role of leader is up for grabs. I have to admit, I read the some of the early Ulsterman articles. Have you? I should clarify though, I’ve always thought his articles only represented a clever fiction. The unknown author, the unidentified DC insider, the high level of information covering a broad spectrum partisan politics that cannot be confirmed, all of it screams fantasy. However, I have to wonder if it is possible that a political fiction, presented in Ulsterman’s Deep Throat style of outing interesting insider information, could end up proving prescient. Ulsterman’s May 3rd post on the inside workings of the operation to kill or capture OBL, prior to and following the execution of the mission, paints a picture of a President with little ability to make a decision on his own. It also attempts to paint key administration officials at Intelligence, State, and Defense (Panetta, Clinton, and Gates) as the actual movers and shakers in the mission to take out OBL. Like I said, I normally chalk up Ulsterman’s writings as simple fantasy but, even if the entire story came to him in a dream on May 2nd, it is crafted in such a way that it almost seems to be tracking right along side the news cycle rather than following it. In the three days following a significant benchmark in this country’s war against terrorism, the story about how it occurred, from planning to implementation, and even what is going to happen next, seems to be passing through a sieve as it’s being presented to public for consumption. A source here, a source there, speaking on the condition of anonymity, is sharing interesting information. Then, even clearly identified sources add their sound bites sending the press to push out the newest piece of the puzzle as soon as possible. But before the news cycle has ended, much of this information has been filtered out leaving fresh tidbits to replace unwelcomed narrative. As I mentioned in a previous post, this type of handling of the message breeds theories that there are alternatives to the official story. But, if you look at it in the context of Ulsterman’s article, the sifting of the official story almost seem to add credence to some of the elements of his report. Leon Panetta tells us the photo of a dead OBL is coming, the White House says, “No way.” John Brennan, Deputy National Security Advisor (read – an administration czar), tells the press that OBL was armed, that there was a firefight, and OBL shielded himself behind a woman. Then unidentified sources at the Pentagon claim BS on that, stating OBL was unarmed – this is followed by the White House issuing a more “textured account” of events on the ground, including a statement that OBL was unarmed. Plus, we’ve heard from the President that his decision making was extra decisive after taking nine months to confirm the intelligence about OBL’s location. Yet, at least one press outlet has published a report that suggests that the President wasn’t as decisive has he let on, still needing a little extra time to think on things before taking action. Without having read Ulsterman’s report, I would take all of the above to indicate several things; chief among them, there is no single point within the White House directing the narrative. This suggests that either central leadership within the administration is weak or the role of leader is up for grabs. Even if Ulsterman’s report is no more than some blogger’s effort at drawing conclusions from the facts at hand, this administration is doing a fine job outing itself as an organization fraught with internal conflicts. If things keep going this way, it won’t take an unidentified insider to prove it to us.
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#39. To: war (#33)
Either is correct.
Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??
Hey! Spelling Nazi! Let he who is without sin . . .
war has to do something for entertainment. The voices in his head aren't speaking to him and his imaginary friends have found reasons not to come over anymore.
You're out of your Bushcock mind. Your piece of shit sentence was syntactically tortuous. That said, you do understand that the CIA and the NSA are two different agencies? And you do understand that what was authorized under Patriot is different than the CIA wiretapping a target overseas? My guess is you do but you'll "pretend" that you don't.
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." [snicker]
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." Huh? Just once will you please make a comment ON TOPIC. Thanks.
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." Maybe I should visit your homepage more...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." Either is correct, Professor Grammar. I think their being stuck on grammar is the same as being stuck on stupid, it's their only defense in avoiding the issues!
The "issue" has been dispateched with all haste and facts, Mammy. The wiretap was a CIA op done overseas. The program Paddy and Boofer are referring to was the NSA domestic eavesdropping in the Patriot Act. Two different birds...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." So what? They are both part of the IC under the DNI. You don't think they communicate with each other? And you do understand that what was authorized under Patriot is different than the CIA wiretapping a target overseas? Who said the CIA intercepted the call? All I have seen referenced is "US Intelligence"? Under the Patriot Act, Bush had broad powers to fight terrorism. Bush used these powers to bypass the FISA court and directed the NSA to spy directly on al Qaeda in a new program. It was a gutsy call and the right thing to do.
Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??
Chuckles... So what?!? So what if the CIA was engaging in an intelligence gathering operation that it has been doing since wiretapping was invented? ROFLMAO...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." HUH?
Like you are qualified to know if that is the case? From what? Watching episodes of 24?
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
My understanding is that it was the NSA who intercepted the courier's call. It took years of work for intelligence agencies to identify the courier's real name, which officials are not disclosing. When they did identify him, he was nowhere to be found. The CIA's sources didn't know where he was hiding. Bin Laden was famously insistent that no phones or computers be used near him, so the eavesdroppers at the National Security Agency kept coming up cold. Then in the middle of last year, the courier had a telephone conversation with someone who was being monitored by U.S. intelligence, according to an American official, who like others interviewed for this story spoke only on condition of anonymity to discuss the sensitive operation. The courier was located somewhere away from bin Laden's hideout when he had the discussion, but it was enough to help intelligence officials locate and watch him. So what information do you have that the NSA referenced in the 1st paragraph is different than the "US Intelligence" in the second?
Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??
Well, I have some doubt but what is more revealing about GERONIMO is what was initially released into the publick and the later backtracking or changes about the original statements. Those helicopters used are not acoustically silent. Suppose, you were awakened in the AM with a WHOOSH over your home as those crafts landed and impacted your sleep as well as any colleagues. Wouldn't you be on the defensive? I would be defensive and I think most people would be. So, it is fairely simple to postulate that OBL would have been armed. But the WhiteHouse retractions are that OBL wasn't armed. Does that make sense? I think there is a problem with the story being fabricated as the WhiteHouse attempts to cover up the issues of a US President covertly attacking within a friendly nation for MURDER of a "suspect." In fact, becasue of retractions, I think 0bama jumped the gun for release and exposure of the assassination of OBL without serious understanding of the political ramifications that he committed.
I've seen it reported that, last year, the CIA was monitoring the calls of one target inside of Pakistan and were able to learn the name of the courier. Actually, they had the name. They just didn't know where he was. But, again, these were foreign intelligence gathering operations. This was not the domestic spying of the Patriot Act. Again, you are deperately trying to muddy the waters. The NSA program authorzied under Patriot is not what led to this information.
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." The US media still reports that US forces captured Saddam while the rest of the world knows that he was captured by the Kurds and "handed over". So, the story changing neither concerns nor bothers me. Those helicopters used are not acoustically silent. Suppose, you were awakened in the AM with a WHOOSH over your home as those crafts landed and impacted your sleep as well as any colleagues. Wouldn't you be on the defensive? You're also domiciled near a Pakistani military installation. Frankly, I also have my doubts that they used "conventional" Blackhawks but, again, I don't care what they used. But the WhiteHouse retractions are that OBL wasn't armed. Had arms within reach is what I;ve read...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." That cuts both ways. What info do you have that it does? Regardless, this still was in no way under the auspice of he NSA program instituted by Patriot...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." That said... "T" and "Y" are right next to each other, Mammy... Better? And are you and "no gnu taxes" the same person?
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." There has been nothing shown to indicate anyone other than the NSA was monitoring calls. But, again, these were foreign intelligence gathering operations. This was not the domestic spying of the Patriot Act. Bush had always maintained that his program was about foreign intercepts, and it could legally be done for national security purposes even if one of the parties was domestic. It was never about domestic spying.
Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??
BULLSHIT. WASHINGTON, Dec. 15 - Months after the Sept. 11 attacks, President Bush secretly authorized the National Security Agency to eavesdrop on Americans and others inside the United States to search for evidence of terrorist activity without the court-approved warrants ordinarily required for domestic spying, according to government officials.
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." To me, it appears to be another CIA "job" just like the Iraqi war. It is another failed mission. It is another government bungle. OBL will probably appear all over the world along the side of Elvis Presley now, because of the way the 0bama administration has handled this entire endeavour. You see, there are two ways to do things from an official perspective: a right way and a wrong way. Anything in between is considered a "wrong way." 0bama performed this GERONIMO_OPERATION the "wrong way." Particularly since there was no need to "rush" an assassination.
Osama bin Laden's compound in Pakistan had no mobile phones or computer links A SINGLE phone call to an al-Qaeda courier last year sealed the fate of fugitive Osama bin Laden. Abu Ahmed was the terror chief's lifeline to the world - and became his downfall. When Ahmed took the fate-ful call, he was unaware that the CIA were monitoring the lines of his closest associates. It was enough for the spies to locate him and track him to the compound in Pakistan where Bin Laden had been hiding out from justice for about six years. Osama bin Laden's compound in Pakistan had no mobile phones or computer links A SINGLE phone call to an al-Qaeda courier last year sealed the fate of fugitive Osama bin Laden. Abu Ahmed was the terror chief's lifeline to the world - and became his downfall. When Ahmed took the fate-ful call, he was unaware that the CIA were monitoring the lines of his closest associates. It was enough for the spies to locate him and track him to the compound in Pakistan where Bin Laden had been hiding out from justice for about six years. Osama bin Laden's compound in Pakistan had no mobile phones or computer links A SINGLE phone call to an al-Qaeda courier last year sealed the fate of fugitive Osama bin Laden. Abu Ahmed was the terror chief's lifeline to the world - and became his downfall. When Ahmed took the fate-ful call, he was unaware that the CIA were monitoring the lines of his closest associates. It was enough for the spies to locate him and track him to the compound in Pakistan where Bin Laden had been hiding out from justice for about six years. http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/2011/05/04/osama-bin-laden- single-phone-call-from-courier-led-cia-to-al-qaeda-leader-s-pakistan-compound- 86908-23106089/
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." I disagree. It was the Operation Chromite of the War on Terror. I'm glad he's dead. And if Moonbats want to turn him into a combo of Elvis and Andy Kaufmann and Moon Landings all in one then that's fine with me. He'll still be dead.
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." Here's the bottom line: Barack Obama put his entire presidency on the line last weekend when he ordered the commando assault of Bin Laden's compound. He could have taken the easy way out and ordered a bombing, but instead he chose the most difficult option because he correctly calculated that we needed proof that we had actually gotten Bin Laden. Had the mission failed. Had the stalled chopper crashed in mid-flight, had the two helicopters collided like in 1979, or had Bin Laden not been there, he would have been deemed a failure. His presidency would have been over, and he would have walked off into the sunset in 2012. Instead the mission is a success and the entire Republican narrative of Obama as a weak, vacillating leader who won't take risks and can't make up his mind is gone. Out the window, never to be seen again. This is driving Republicans up a wall as we see from the posters here and the GOP pundits on TV/Radio, trying to do everything they can to spin this as "Obama doesn't deserve any credit." That's false and they know it. What really eats them up is the fact that the mission succeeded. They, deep in their hearts wish that Bin Laden slipped away among the wreckage of dead SEALs and downed choppers because it would have damaged Obama beyond repair. That, IMHO, is utterly disgusting.
"Thats because your basically and idiot." HA HA...caught it before you did!!!!
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." You nailed exactly their Republican mindset.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
I don't think that is true. When the mansion (the US government affectionately calls the mansion a "compound") was built there were no hard lines for telephone services or the Internet. That doesn't preclude cellular devices or other wireless methods of communications. Since the mansion was expensive by Pakistani standards it is conceivable that wireless methods of information sharing was employed. And those same methods of communication were encrypted thus ensuring some immunity from extraneous sources such as government snooping.
There was satellite dishes for TV and cell phones were found.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
U.S. Department of Justice White Paper on NSA Legal Authorities "Legal Authorities Supporting the Activities of the National Security Agency Described by the President"
Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??
Excellent analysis. Thanks!
Why? Bush did a great job, if in fact bi Laden was killed.
Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??
I agree. Badeye for instance, is all ate up with the goofies because he has all these Jimmy Carter comparisons he can't use.
------------------------------------- Bravo...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." Muddying the waters again, Padlock. The issue that you linked to was DOMESTIC EAVESDROPPING by the NSA.
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." But the mission DID fail. Here is why: there is large speculation about the changes to the original "official story" coupled with international law abuses BEYOND conclusive proof that OBL was even assassinated. Again, the mission failed; it was botched; it has been modified by all accounts because 0bama does not know how to lead a team and then publicize the results in an official manner.
There was no domestic eavesdropping. It was all about foriegn terrorists and MAY have include calls to domestic recipients from them.
Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??
As was pointed out, BULLSHIT. There was not only eavesdropping but data mining as well.
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." OBL is dead bucky...finis...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." U.S. Department of Justice White Paper on NSA Legal Authorities "Legal Authorities Supporting the Activities of the National Security Agency Described by the President" Refer to the USDOJ White Paper on the matter which says anyone who claims this was domestic spying is full of it.
Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??
and we didn't land on the moon either. And certainly 9/11 was a government setup because early reports said a small plane crashed into the towers. Sorry, I'm not one for conspiracy theories. War is a messy game and initial accounts of action usually aren't accurate.
"Thats because your basically and idiot." Not according to my sources. He is whooping IT up in a downtown Las Vegas casino right now while Elvis Presley is outside pan-handling for a photograph.
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#40. To: war (#38)
I have no dount that they got bin Laden.
#41. To: no gnu taxes (#39)
(Edited)
--GW Bush
#42. To: Rudgear (#40)
#38. To: buckeroo (#35) (Edited)
--GW Bush
#43. To: Rudgear (#37)
Just mince from one childish accusation to another.
--GW Bush
#44. To: hondo68 (#36)
Wart follows the DNC list of approved sites, to accomplish that.
--GW Bush
#45. To: no gnu taxes (#32)
(Edited)
Mammy, the grammatically correct way to state this is to say "and still remain as stupid as you are"
#46. To: Murron (#45)
--GW Bush
#47. To: war (#41)
Yhat said, you do understand that the CIA and the NSA are two different agencies?
#48. To: no gnu taxes (#47)
So what?
--GW Bush
#49. To: war (#41)
"Yhat said"
#50. To: buckeroo (#15)
It is because the entire operation was incorrectly handled.
#51. To: war (#48)
So what if the CIA was engaging in an intelligence gathering operation
#52. To: war (#38)
I have no doubt that they got bin Laden.
#53. To: no gnu taxes (#47)
Who said the CIA intercepted the call?
--GW Bush
#54. To: buckeroo (#52)
(Edited)
Well, I have some doubt but what is more revealing about GERONIMO is what was initially released into the publick and the later backtracking or changes about the original statements.
--GW Bush
#55. To: no gnu taxes (#51)
So what information do you have that the NSA referenced in the 1st paragraph is different than the "US Intelligence" in the second?
--GW Bush
#56. To: Murron (#49)
(Edited)
--GW Bush
#57. To: war (#53)
I've seen it reported that, last year, the CIA was monitoring the calls of one target inside of Pakistan and were able to learn the name of the courier. Actually, they had the name. They just didn't know where he was.
#58. To: no gnu taxes (#57)
Bush had always maintained that his program was about foreign intercepts
--GW Bush
#59. To: war (#54)
#60. To: no gnu taxes (#57)
(Edited)
--GW Bush
#61. To: buckeroo (#59)
--GW Bush
#62. To: war, no gnu taxes, ferret mike, lucysmom, godwinson, rek, jwpegler, badeye, skip intro, fred mertz, rudgear, a k a stone (#58)
(Edited)
Badeye posted on 2011-04-29 10:30:22 ET
#63. To: Murron (#54)
#54. To: buckeroo (#52) (Edited)
--GW Bush
#64. To: go65 (#62)
#65. To: war (#60)
Osama bin Laden's compound in Pakistan had no mobile phones or computer links
#66. To: buckeroo (#65)
(Edited)
That doesn't preclude cellular devices or other wireless methods of communications.
#67. To: war (#58)
The authorized intercepts are not domestic but rather foreign intelligence integral to the conduct of war and that the warrant requirements of FISA were implicitly superseded by the subsequent passage of the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Terrorists (AUMF)
#68. To: go65 (#62)
#69. To: go65 (#62)
(Edited)
What really eats them up is the fact that the mission succeeded.
#70. To: go65 (#62)
They, deep in their hearts wish that Bin Laden slipped away among the wreckage of dead SEALs and downed choppers because it would have damaged Obama beyond repair.
Why don't you make like a tree and get out of here?
#71. To: go65 (#62)
--GW Bush
#72. To: no gnu taxes (#67)
--GW Bush
#73. To: go65 (#62)
Had the mission failed.
#74. To: war (#72)
#75. To: no gnu taxes (#74)
There was no domestic eavesdropping.
--GW Bush
#76. To: buckeroo (#73)
--GW Bush
#77. To: war (#75)
The authorized intercepts are not domestic but rather foreign intelligence integral to the conduct of war and that the warrant requirements of FISA were implicitly superseded by the subsequent passage of the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Terrorists (AUMF)
#78. To: buckeroo (#73)
But the mission DID fail. Here is why: there is large speculation about the changes to the original "official story" coupled with international law abuses BEYOND conclusive proof that OBL was even assassinated.
Badeye posted on 2011-04-29 10:30:22 ET
#79. To: war (#76)
OBL is dead
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