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Title: Hmmm, Do I “Want to Believe?”
Source:
constitutionclub.org
URL Source: http://constitutionclub.org/2011/05/04/hmmm-do-i-want-to-believe/
Published: May 5, 2011
Author: Regalo Di Spine
Post Date: 2011-05-05 02:01:58 by socalv8
Keywords: ulsterman, osama, obama
Views: 112293
Comments: 162
I have to admit, I read the some of the early Ulsterman articles. Have you? I should clarify though, I’ve always thought his articles only represented a clever fiction. The unknown author, the unidentified DC insider, the high level of information covering a broad spectrum partisan politics that cannot be confirmed, all of it screams fantasy. However, I have to wonder if it is possible that a political fiction, presented in Ulsterman’s Deep Throat style of outing interesting insider information, could end up proving prescient. Ulsterman’s May 3rd post on the inside workings of the operation to kill or capture OBL, prior to and following the execution of the mission, paints a picture of a President with little ability to make a decision on his own. It also attempts to paint key administration officials at Intelligence, State, and Defense (Panetta, Clinton, and Gates) as the actual movers and shakers in the mission to take out OBL. Like I said, I normally chalk up Ulsterman’s writings as simple fantasy but, even if the entire story came to him in a dream on May 2nd, it is crafted in such a way that it almost seems to be tracking right along side the news cycle rather than following it. In the three days following a significant benchmark in this country’s war against terrorism, the story about how it occurred, from planning to implementation, and even what is going to happen next, seems to be passing through a sieve as it’s being presented to public for consumption. A source here, a source there, speaking on the condition of anonymity, is sharing interesting information. Then, even clearly identified sources add their sound bites sending the press to push out the newest piece of the puzzle as soon as possible. But before the news cycle has ended, much of this information has been filtered out leaving fresh tidbits to replace unwelcomed narrative. As I mentioned in a previous post, this type of handling of the message breeds theories that there are alternatives to the official story. But, if you look at it in the context of Ulsterman’s article, the sifting of the official story almost seem to add credence to some of the elements of his report. Leon Panetta tells us the photo of a dead OBL is coming, the White House says, “No way.” John Brennan, Deputy National Security Advisor (read – an administration czar), tells the press that OBL was armed, that there was a firefight, and OBL shielded himself behind a woman. Then unidentified sources at the Pentagon claim BS on that, stating OBL was unarmed – this is followed by the White House issuing a more “textured account” of events on the ground, including a statement that OBL was unarmed. Plus, we’ve heard from the President that his decision making was extra decisive after taking nine months to confirm the intelligence about OBL’s location. Yet, at least one press outlet has published a report that suggests that the President wasn’t as decisive has he let on, still needing a little extra time to think on things before taking action. Without having read Ulsterman’s report, I would take all of the above to indicate several things; chief among them, there is no single point within the White House directing the narrative. This suggests that either central leadership within the administration is weak or the role of leader is up for grabs. I have to admit, I read the some of the early Ulsterman articles. Have you? I should clarify though, I’ve always thought his articles only represented a clever fiction. The unknown author, the unidentified DC insider, the high level of information covering a broad spectrum partisan politics that cannot be confirmed, all of it screams fantasy. However, I have to wonder if it is possible that a political fiction, presented in Ulsterman’s Deep Throat style of outing interesting insider information, could end up proving prescient. Ulsterman’s May 3rd post on the inside workings of the operation to kill or capture OBL, prior to and following the execution of the mission, paints a picture of a President with little ability to make a decision on his own. It also attempts to paint key administration officials at Intelligence, State, and Defense (Panetta, Clinton, and Gates) as the actual movers and shakers in the mission to take out OBL. Like I said, I normally chalk up Ulsterman’s writings as simple fantasy but, even if the entire story came to him in a dream on May 2nd, it is crafted in such a way that it almost seems to be tracking right along side the news cycle rather than following it. In the three days following a significant benchmark in this country’s war against terrorism, the story about how it occurred, from planning to implementation, and even what is going to happen next, seems to be passing through a sieve as it’s being presented to public for consumption. A source here, a source there, speaking on the condition of anonymity, is sharing interesting information. Then, even clearly identified sources add their sound bites sending the press to push out the newest piece of the puzzle as soon as possible. But before the news cycle has ended, much of this information has been filtered out leaving fresh tidbits to replace unwelcomed narrative. As I mentioned in a previous post, this type of handling of the message breeds theories that there are alternatives to the official story. But, if you look at it in the context of Ulsterman’s article, the sifting of the official story almost seem to add credence to some of the elements of his report. Leon Panetta tells us the photo of a dead OBL is coming, the White House says, “No way.” John Brennan, Deputy National Security Advisor (read – an administration czar), tells the press that OBL was armed, that there was a firefight, and OBL shielded himself behind a woman. Then unidentified sources at the Pentagon claim BS on that, stating OBL was unarmed – this is followed by the White House issuing a more “textured account” of events on the ground, including a statement that OBL was unarmed. Plus, we’ve heard from the President that his decision making was extra decisive after taking nine months to confirm the intelligence about OBL’s location. Yet, at least one press outlet has published a report that suggests that the President wasn’t as decisive has he let on, still needing a little extra time to think on things before taking action. Without having read Ulsterman’s report, I would take all of the above to indicate several things; chief among them, there is no single point within the White House directing the narrative. This suggests that either central leadership within the administration is weak or the role of leader is up for grabs. Even if Ulsterman’s report is no more than some blogger’s effort at drawing conclusions from the facts at hand, this administration is doing a fine job outing itself as an organization fraught with internal conflicts. If things keep going this way, it won’t take an unidentified insider to prove it to us.
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#15. To: Godwinson, socalv8 (#8)
I hate to step on your toes but that was a SECURECONNECTION using SATCOM. Your tax dollars (BILLIONS) provide the highest definition and reliability that modern technology can provide. There was no outage. It is considered classified data and any of this incident was prematurely publicized by 0bama. Now, all you see is backtracking. The question you should consider is WHY. It is because the entire operation was incorrectly handled. There are many ramifications about this operation GERONIMO that shall impact our own lives stateside as well as around th world.
How so? And yes, the "cut video" ploy is silly.
To: Justaham Were the SEAL’s able to recover Bin Laden’s signed copy of Audacity Of Hope? 11 posted on Thursday, May 05, 2011 05:35:19 by NeverForgetBataan (To the German Commander: ..........................NUTS !) audassity !
If you ... don't use exclamation points --- you should't be typeing ! Commas - semicolons are for girlie boys !
As you know, the OBL research team (out of the US Pentagon, a staff of about 15 personnel and about 100 field agents) was disbanded about 2008. Since then, there has been a renewed push by the 0bama administration to find him. But, there was never supposed to be a murder. It was supposed to be a kidnapping with the possibility of collecting detailed information about the entire past and current operations. The Pakistani AirForce caused an unexpected mishap as the entire venture was clandestine and took longer than was expected. They flew over the compound with two fully armed jet aircraft. And the mission was aborted thereafter for the safe return of the ground or field CIA personnel involved. This involved quick bungling the operation to ensure a valid claim was made. What it all means is that OBL wasn't captured as planned. And since the US government authorized the mission impacting international agreements, it has lead to the idea that the USA operates outside of established treaties and as a result has compromised its own reliability and agreements with established friendly nations. On the homefront, we have documented PROOF about how ruthless the US government is, with respect to using military force even if there is some likelihood that the person or persons are not involved with the mission. It is Waco, Tx, circa 1993 via Bill Clinton all over again. The US government does not act within the confines of law or any authority other than being a pile of jackbooted thugs.
I think osamma had quite a following among the gay crowd ! he had that come hither I love you look didn't he !
If you ... don't use exclamation points --- you should't be typeing ! Commas - semicolons are for girlie boys !
Go on over to LP and ask yukon. Let us know what he says. Nah, just kidding. I don't give a damn about what he says.
"I don't know where he is. I have no idea and I really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." - George W. Bush
Source?
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." It must be terribly frustrating to have access to the internet and still remain as stupid as you do!
Moi.
So that's simply your conjecture? The Reuters account of what the locals observed differs with your scenario. They all stated that no Pakistani forces appeared untill after the raid.
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." I would imagine that it's no more frustrating than it is for you to have access to basic hygiene and still be a one toothed skank.
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." Mammy, the grammatically correct way to state this is to say "and still remain as stupid as you are" You're welcome.
"I don't know where he is. I have no idea and I really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." - George W. Bush
I have difficulty with the analysis in the above, bucky. I don't believe that there is a nation on earth that was surprised that, when found, we killed bin Laden. And of those nations, I'd be surprised if very many of them cared. Nor, frankly, do I believe that the US cares what the other nations ***think*** in this matter. We were going to announce that he got him. Why would we care about "covering up" anything at the point of ops? I find that you have some interesting opinions and I do enjoy reading them. I find this one to be a little outside the Realm of Reality...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." That too...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." Still 'protecting' war from his obvious deficiencies, dummy? You do know that by avoiding the accusation, you both are lending substance to the accusation.
war has to do something for entertainment. The voices in his head aren't speaking to him and his imaginary friends have found reasons not to come over anymore.
You know what your problem is, Rudy? You suffer from "Da Boofers". That's an affliction and affectation in which the afflicted has ongoing delusions that the internet really "matters". Mammy has that same afflication. If she wasn't currently in a video courtship with Boofer, I'd try to hook you two up...meanwhile...your test pattern is going to have to do...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." No, Rudy, I'm helping Mammy to become a more effective communicator. Would you like me to try and work you into my schedule too?
"We need to counter the shockwave of the evildoer by having individual rate cuts accelerated and by thinking about tax rebates." — George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Oct. 4, 2001
Mammy, the grammatically correct way to state this is to say "and still remain as stupid as you are" Either is correct, Professor Grammar. It must be terribly frustrating to have access to the internet and still remain as stupid as you do! There is an implied remain after the do. Thus think as in this sentence: It must be terribly frustrating to have access to the internet and still remain as stupid as you do remain!
Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??
Stick to being an engineer, Choo Choo Charlie; her use of "as you do" was idiomatic and remains so despite your inane attempt at intervention. But I can understand the reason why you'd want to change the subject here...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." That's horribly written. A tenth grade English teacher would have hit you with a ruler for writing that.
"We need to counter the shockwave of the evildoer by having individual rate cuts accelerated and by thinking about tax rebates." — George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Oct. 4, 2001
That would have been fine on the Afghanistan battlefield wherein OBL had his notorious AK-47 with a 60 rnd ammo magazine as he has been pictured from time to time. But this isn't the case of an early morning military assault/raid into a private residence under the idea that OBL was there. I agree it was probable as the US military/intelligence seek definitive precision and accuracy about information. But, there is the possibility that all they found was the local late night pizza hut driver that delivers in the AM.
Wart follows the DNC list of approved sites, to accomplish that.
I recall a re-run of MASH I saw where this uber right winger named Colonel Flagg... See? Just mince from one childish accusation to another. You can't defend you statements and try to stall by asking others to do your homework for you. When you can't get away with that, you just change the subject. Tell me, bug. Do you get nervous in the bug spray aisle at your local supermarket?
war has to do something for entertainment. The voices in his head aren't speaking to him and his imaginary friends have found reasons not to come over anymore.
Hilarity of that image aside, I have no doubt that they got bin Laden. And it would have been 4 drivers, no?
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." Either is correct.
Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??
Hey! Spelling Nazi! Let he who is without sin . . .
war has to do something for entertainment. The voices in his head aren't speaking to him and his imaginary friends have found reasons not to come over anymore.
You're out of your Bushcock mind. Your piece of shit sentence was syntactically tortuous. That said, you do understand that the CIA and the NSA are two different agencies? And you do understand that what was authorized under Patriot is different than the CIA wiretapping a target overseas? My guess is you do but you'll "pretend" that you don't.
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." [snicker]
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." Huh? Just once will you please make a comment ON TOPIC. Thanks.
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." Maybe I should visit your homepage more...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." Either is correct, Professor Grammar. I think their being stuck on grammar is the same as being stuck on stupid, it's their only defense in avoiding the issues!
The "issue" has been dispateched with all haste and facts, Mammy. The wiretap was a CIA op done overseas. The program Paddy and Boofer are referring to was the NSA domestic eavesdropping in the Patriot Act. Two different birds...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." So what? They are both part of the IC under the DNI. You don't think they communicate with each other? And you do understand that what was authorized under Patriot is different than the CIA wiretapping a target overseas? Who said the CIA intercepted the call? All I have seen referenced is "US Intelligence"? Under the Patriot Act, Bush had broad powers to fight terrorism. Bush used these powers to bypass the FISA court and directed the NSA to spy directly on al Qaeda in a new program. It was a gutsy call and the right thing to do.
Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??
Chuckles... So what?!? So what if the CIA was engaging in an intelligence gathering operation that it has been doing since wiretapping was invented? ROFLMAO...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." HUH?
Like you are qualified to know if that is the case? From what? Watching episodes of 24?
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
My understanding is that it was the NSA who intercepted the courier's call. It took years of work for intelligence agencies to identify the courier's real name, which officials are not disclosing. When they did identify him, he was nowhere to be found. The CIA's sources didn't know where he was hiding. Bin Laden was famously insistent that no phones or computers be used near him, so the eavesdroppers at the National Security Agency kept coming up cold. Then in the middle of last year, the courier had a telephone conversation with someone who was being monitored by U.S. intelligence, according to an American official, who like others interviewed for this story spoke only on condition of anonymity to discuss the sensitive operation. The courier was located somewhere away from bin Laden's hideout when he had the discussion, but it was enough to help intelligence officials locate and watch him. So what information do you have that the NSA referenced in the 1st paragraph is different than the "US Intelligence" in the second?
Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??
Well, I have some doubt but what is more revealing about GERONIMO is what was initially released into the publick and the later backtracking or changes about the original statements. Those helicopters used are not acoustically silent. Suppose, you were awakened in the AM with a WHOOSH over your home as those crafts landed and impacted your sleep as well as any colleagues. Wouldn't you be on the defensive? I would be defensive and I think most people would be. So, it is fairely simple to postulate that OBL would have been armed. But the WhiteHouse retractions are that OBL wasn't armed. Does that make sense? I think there is a problem with the story being fabricated as the WhiteHouse attempts to cover up the issues of a US President covertly attacking within a friendly nation for MURDER of a "suspect." In fact, becasue of retractions, I think 0bama jumped the gun for release and exposure of the assassination of OBL without serious understanding of the political ramifications that he committed.
I've seen it reported that, last year, the CIA was monitoring the calls of one target inside of Pakistan and were able to learn the name of the courier. Actually, they had the name. They just didn't know where he was. But, again, these were foreign intelligence gathering operations. This was not the domestic spying of the Patriot Act. Again, you are deperately trying to muddy the waters. The NSA program authorzied under Patriot is not what led to this information.
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." The US media still reports that US forces captured Saddam while the rest of the world knows that he was captured by the Kurds and "handed over". So, the story changing neither concerns nor bothers me. Those helicopters used are not acoustically silent. Suppose, you were awakened in the AM with a WHOOSH over your home as those crafts landed and impacted your sleep as well as any colleagues. Wouldn't you be on the defensive? You're also domiciled near a Pakistani military installation. Frankly, I also have my doubts that they used "conventional" Blackhawks but, again, I don't care what they used. But the WhiteHouse retractions are that OBL wasn't armed. Had arms within reach is what I;ve read...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." That cuts both ways. What info do you have that it does? Regardless, this still was in no way under the auspice of he NSA program instituted by Patriot...
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..."
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestLet's see - Afghanistan / Washington D.C. / thousands of miles / if what you are thinking - a video feed from helmet cams existed streaming live - then yea it would and could cut out. I lose connection to wireless when I move from room to room sometimes.
#16. To: buckeroo (#15)
There are many ramifications about this operation GERONIMO that shall impact our own lives stateside as well as around th world.
#17. To: socalv8 (#14)
#18. To: socalv8 (#16)
How so?
#19. To: buckeroo (#18)
(Edited)
#20. To: BorisY (#19)
I think osamma had quite a following among the gay crowd !
#21. To: buckeroo (#18)
--GW Bush
#22. To: war, buckeroo (#21)
"Source"?
#23. To: war (#21)
Source?
#24. To: buckeroo (#23)
--GW Bush
#25. To: Murron (#22)
(Edited)
--GW Bush
#26. To: Murron (#22)
It must be terribly frustrating to have access to the internet and still remain as stupid as you do!
#27. To: buckeroo (#18)
(Edited)
What it all means is that OBL wasn't captured as planned. And since the US government authorized the mission impacting international agreements, it has lead to the idea that the USA operates outside of established treaties and as a result has compromised its own reliability and agreements with established friendly nations.
--GW Bush
#28. To: Skip Intro (#26)
--GW Bush
#29. To: Skip Intro (#26)
#30. To: Rudgear (#29)
(Edited)
Still 'protecting' war from his obvious deficiencies, dummy? You do know that by avoiding the accusation, you both are lending substance to the accusation.
--GW Bush
#31. To: Rudgear (#29)
Still 'protecting' war from his obvious deficiencies, dummy?
#32. To: Skip Intro (#26)
It must be terribly frustrating to have access to the internet and still remain as stupid as you do!
#33. To: no gnu taxes (#32)
(Edited)
--GW Bush
#34. To: no gnu taxes (#32)
It must be terribly frustrating to have access to the internet and still remain as stupid as you do remain!
#35. To: war (#27)
I don't believe that there is a nation on earth that was surprised that, when found, we killed bin Laden.
#36. To: Murron (#22)
It must be terribly frustrating to have access to the internet and still remain as stupid as you do!
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
Godwinson posted on 2011-02-23 11:47:32 ET
http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=18011&Disp=46#C46
#37. To: war (#30)
#38. To: buckeroo (#35)
(Edited)
But, there is the possibility that all they found was the local late night pizza hut driver that delivers in the AM.
--GW Bush
#39. To: war (#33)
#40. To: war (#38)
I have no dount that they got bin Laden.
#41. To: no gnu taxes (#39)
(Edited)
--GW Bush
#42. To: Rudgear (#40)
#38. To: buckeroo (#35) (Edited)
--GW Bush
#43. To: Rudgear (#37)
Just mince from one childish accusation to another.
--GW Bush
#44. To: hondo68 (#36)
Wart follows the DNC list of approved sites, to accomplish that.
--GW Bush
#45. To: no gnu taxes (#32)
(Edited)
Mammy, the grammatically correct way to state this is to say "and still remain as stupid as you are"
#46. To: Murron (#45)
--GW Bush
#47. To: war (#41)
Yhat said, you do understand that the CIA and the NSA are two different agencies?
#48. To: no gnu taxes (#47)
So what?
--GW Bush
#49. To: war (#41)
"Yhat said"
#50. To: buckeroo (#15)
It is because the entire operation was incorrectly handled.
#51. To: war (#48)
So what if the CIA was engaging in an intelligence gathering operation
#52. To: war (#38)
I have no doubt that they got bin Laden.
#53. To: no gnu taxes (#47)
Who said the CIA intercepted the call?
--GW Bush
#54. To: buckeroo (#52)
(Edited)
Well, I have some doubt but what is more revealing about GERONIMO is what was initially released into the publick and the later backtracking or changes about the original statements.
--GW Bush
#55. To: no gnu taxes (#51)
So what information do you have that the NSA referenced in the 1st paragraph is different than the "US Intelligence" in the second?
--GW Bush
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