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Title: Hmmm, Do I “Want to Believe?”
Source: constitutionclub.org
URL Source: http://constitutionclub.org/2011/05/04/hmmm-do-i-want-to-believe/
Published: May 5, 2011
Author: Regalo Di Spine
Post Date: 2011-05-05 02:01:58 by socalv8
Keywords: ulsterman, osama, obama
Views: 112301
Comments: 162

I have to admit, I read the some of the early Ulsterman articles. Have you?

I should clarify though, I’ve always thought his articles only represented a clever fiction. The unknown author, the unidentified DC insider, the high level of information covering a broad spectrum partisan politics that cannot be confirmed, all of it screams fantasy. However, I have to wonder if it is possible that a political fiction, presented in Ulsterman’s Deep Throat style of outing interesting insider information, could end up proving prescient. Ulsterman’s May 3rd post on the inside workings of the operation to kill or capture OBL, prior to and following the execution of the mission, paints a picture of a President with little ability to make a decision on his own. It also attempts to paint key administration officials at Intelligence, State, and Defense (Panetta, Clinton, and Gates) as the actual movers and shakers in the mission to take out OBL. Like I said, I normally chalk up Ulsterman’s writings as simple fantasy but, even if the entire story came to him in a dream on May 2nd, it is crafted in such a way that it almost seems to be tracking right along side the news cycle rather than following it.

In the three days following a significant benchmark in this country’s war against terrorism, the story about how it occurred, from planning to implementation, and even what is going to happen next, seems to be passing through a sieve as it’s being presented to public for consumption. A source here, a source there, speaking on the condition of anonymity, is sharing interesting information. Then, even clearly identified sources add their sound bites sending the press to push out the newest piece of the puzzle as soon as possible. But before the news cycle has ended, much of this information has been filtered out leaving fresh tidbits to replace unwelcomed narrative. As I mentioned in a previous post, this type of handling of the message breeds theories that there are alternatives to the official story. But, if you look at it in the context of Ulsterman’s article, the sifting of the official story almost seem to add credence to some of the elements of his report.

Leon Panetta tells us the photo of a dead OBL is coming, the White House says, “No way.” John Brennan, Deputy National Security Advisor (read – an administration czar), tells the press that OBL was armed, that there was a firefight, and OBL shielded himself behind a woman. Then unidentified sources at the Pentagon claim BS on that, stating OBL was unarmed – this is followed by the White House issuing a more “textured account” of events on the ground, including a statement that OBL was unarmed. Plus, we’ve heard from the President that his decision making was extra decisive after taking nine months to confirm the intelligence about OBL’s location. Yet, at least one press outlet has published a report that suggests that the President wasn’t as decisive has he let on, still needing a little extra time to think on things before taking action. Without having read Ulsterman’s report, I would take all of the above to indicate several things; chief among them, there is no single point within the White House directing the narrative. This suggests that either central leadership within the administration is weak or the role of leader is up for grabs.

I have to admit, I read the some of the early Ulsterman articles. Have you?

I should clarify though, I’ve always thought his articles only represented a clever fiction. The unknown author, the unidentified DC insider, the high level of information covering a broad spectrum partisan politics that cannot be confirmed, all of it screams fantasy. However, I have to wonder if it is possible that a political fiction, presented in Ulsterman’s Deep Throat style of outing interesting insider information, could end up proving prescient. Ulsterman’s May 3rd post on the inside workings of the operation to kill or capture OBL, prior to and following the execution of the mission, paints a picture of a President with little ability to make a decision on his own. It also attempts to paint key administration officials at Intelligence, State, and Defense (Panetta, Clinton, and Gates) as the actual movers and shakers in the mission to take out OBL. Like I said, I normally chalk up Ulsterman’s writings as simple fantasy but, even if the entire story came to him in a dream on May 2nd, it is crafted in such a way that it almost seems to be tracking right along side the news cycle rather than following it.

In the three days following a significant benchmark in this country’s war against terrorism, the story about how it occurred, from planning to implementation, and even what is going to happen next, seems to be passing through a sieve as it’s being presented to public for consumption. A source here, a source there, speaking on the condition of anonymity, is sharing interesting information. Then, even clearly identified sources add their sound bites sending the press to push out the newest piece of the puzzle as soon as possible. But before the news cycle has ended, much of this information has been filtered out leaving fresh tidbits to replace unwelcomed narrative. As I mentioned in a previous post, this type of handling of the message breeds theories that there are alternatives to the official story. But, if you look at it in the context of Ulsterman’s article, the sifting of the official story almost seem to add credence to some of the elements of his report.

Leon Panetta tells us the photo of a dead OBL is coming, the White House says, “No way.” John Brennan, Deputy National Security Advisor (read – an administration czar), tells the press that OBL was armed, that there was a firefight, and OBL shielded himself behind a woman. Then unidentified sources at the Pentagon claim BS on that, stating OBL was unarmed – this is followed by the White House issuing a more “textured account” of events on the ground, including a statement that OBL was unarmed. Plus, we’ve heard from the President that his decision making was extra decisive after taking nine months to confirm the intelligence about OBL’s location. Yet, at least one press outlet has published a report that suggests that the President wasn’t as decisive has he let on, still needing a little extra time to think on things before taking action. Without having read Ulsterman’s report, I would take all of the above to indicate several things; chief among them, there is no single point within the White House directing the narrative. This suggests that either central leadership within the administration is weak or the role of leader is up for grabs.

Even if Ulsterman’s report is no more than some blogger’s effort at drawing conclusions from the facts at hand, this administration is doing a fine job outing itself as an organization fraught with internal conflicts. If things keep going this way, it won’t take an unidentified insider to prove it to us.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 128.

#1. To: All (#0)

Repeated a few paragraphs, apologies.

socalv8  posted on  2011-05-05   2:05:35 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: socalv8 (#1)

Hmmm, Do I “Want to Believe?”

Yes, an element of the so called right wing in America would rather believe made up fiction rather than accept reality.

Godwinson  posted on  2011-05-05   2:10:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Godwinson (#2)

the so called right wing

Link to Ulsterman on LF.

socalv8  posted on  2011-05-05   2:23:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: socalv8 (#4)

Ulsterman is too crazy even for that kook site Freerepublic but is not crazy enough for the even kookier LF

Godwinson  posted on  2011-05-05   2:28:00 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Godwinson (#5)

Ulsterman is too crazy

Simple question you passed at #3 shows your interest in truth.
You don't believe the WH/CIA either, it sees to me. You're just cheerleading.

socalv8  posted on  2011-05-05   2:37:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: socalv8 (#6)

Let's see - Afghanistan / Washington D.C. / thousands of miles / if what you are thinking - a video feed from helmet cams existed streaming live - then yea it would and could cut out. I lose connection to wireless when I move from room to room sometimes.

I read that what the DC room was watching was the external area and saw troops enter building but could not see inside building.

Either explanation is plausible.

I am not a tim foil hat kook and you don't have to be one either. Embrace Occam's Razo and reality will become clearer to you.

Godwinson  posted on  2011-05-05   10:14:00 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Godwinson, socalv8 (#8)

Let's see - Afghanistan / Washington D.C. / thousands of miles / if what you are thinking - a video feed from helmet cams existed streaming live - then yea it would and could cut out. I lose connection to wireless when I move from room to room sometimes.

I hate to step on your toes but that was a SECURECONNECTION using SATCOM. Your tax dollars (BILLIONS) provide the highest definition and reliability that modern technology can provide.

There was no outage. It is considered classified data and any of this incident was prematurely publicized by 0bama. Now, all you see is backtracking. The question you should consider is WHY.

It is because the entire operation was incorrectly handled. There are many ramifications about this operation GERONIMO that shall impact our own lives stateside as well as around th world.

buckeroo  posted on  2011-05-05   13:37:00 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: buckeroo (#15)

There are many ramifications about this operation GERONIMO that shall impact our own lives stateside as well as around th world.

How so? And yes, the "cut video" ploy is silly.

socalv8  posted on  2011-05-05   13:42:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: socalv8 (#16)

How so?

As you know, the OBL research team (out of the US Pentagon, a staff of about 15 personnel and about 100 field agents) was disbanded about 2008. Since then, there has been a renewed push by the 0bama administration to find him.

But, there was never supposed to be a murder. It was supposed to be a kidnapping with the possibility of collecting detailed information about the entire past and current operations.

The Pakistani AirForce caused an unexpected mishap as the entire venture was clandestine and took longer than was expected. They flew over the compound with two fully armed jet aircraft. And the mission was aborted thereafter for the safe return of the ground or field CIA personnel involved. This involved quick bungling the operation to ensure a valid claim was made.

What it all means is that OBL wasn't captured as planned. And since the US government authorized the mission impacting international agreements, it has lead to the idea that the USA operates outside of established treaties and as a result has compromised its own reliability and agreements with established friendly nations.

On the homefront, we have documented PROOF about how ruthless the US government is, with respect to using military force even if there is some likelihood that the person or persons are not involved with the mission.

It is Waco, Tx, circa 1993 via Bill Clinton all over again. The US government does not act within the confines of law or any authority other than being a pile of jackbooted thugs.

buckeroo  posted on  2011-05-05   14:04:11 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: buckeroo (#18)

Source?

war  posted on  2011-05-05   14:14:23 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: war, buckeroo (#21)

"Source"?

It must be terribly frustrating to have access to the internet and still remain as stupid as you do!

Murron  posted on  2011-05-05   14:17:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Murron (#22)

It must be terribly frustrating to have access to the internet and still remain as stupid as you do!

Mammy, the grammatically correct way to state this is to say "and still remain as stupid as you are"

You're welcome.

Skip Intro  posted on  2011-05-05   14:28:14 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Skip Intro (#26)

It must be terribly frustrating to have access to the internet and still remain as stupid as you do!

Mammy, the grammatically correct way to state this is to say "and still remain as stupid as you are"

Either is correct, Professor Grammar.

It must be terribly frustrating to have access to the internet and still remain as stupid as you do!

There is an implied remain after the do. Thus think as in this sentence:

It must be terribly frustrating to have access to the internet and still remain as stupid as you do remain!

no gnu taxes  posted on  2011-05-05   14:38:25 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: no gnu taxes (#32) (Edited)

Stick to being an engineer, Choo Choo Charlie; her use of "as you do" was idiomatic and remains so despite your inane attempt at intervention.

But I can understand the reason why you'd want to change the subject here...

war  posted on  2011-05-05   14:42:23 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: war (#33)

Either is correct.

no gnu taxes  posted on  2011-05-05   14:46:10 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: no gnu taxes (#39) (Edited)

You're out of your Bushcock mind. Your piece of shit sentence was syntactically tortuous.

That said, you do understand that the CIA and the NSA are two different agencies? And you do understand that what was authorized under Patriot is different than the CIA wiretapping a target overseas?

My guess is you do but you'll "pretend" that you don't.

war  posted on  2011-05-05   14:49:38 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: war (#41)

Yhat said, you do understand that the CIA and the NSA are two different agencies?

So what? They are both part of the IC under the DNI. You don't think they communicate with each other?

And you do understand that what was authorized under Patriot is different than the CIA wiretapping a target overseas?

Who said the CIA intercepted the call? All I have seen referenced is "US Intelligence"?

Under the Patriot Act, Bush had broad powers to fight terrorism. Bush used these powers to bypass the FISA court and directed the NSA to spy directly on al Qaeda in a new program. It was a gutsy call and the right thing to do.

no gnu taxes  posted on  2011-05-05   15:14:07 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: no gnu taxes (#47)

Who said the CIA intercepted the call?

I've seen it reported that, last year, the CIA was monitoring the calls of one target inside of Pakistan and were able to learn the name of the courier. Actually, they had the name. They just didn't know where he was.

But, again, these were foreign intelligence gathering operations. This was not the domestic spying of the Patriot Act.

Again, you are deperately trying to muddy the waters. The NSA program authorzied under Patriot is not what led to this information.

war  posted on  2011-05-05   15:27:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: war (#53)

I've seen it reported that, last year, the CIA was monitoring the calls of one target inside of Pakistan and were able to learn the name of the courier. Actually, they had the name. They just didn't know where he was.

There has been nothing shown to indicate anyone other than the NSA was monitoring calls.

But, again, these were foreign intelligence gathering operations. This was not the domestic spying of the Patriot Act.

Bush had always maintained that his program was about foreign intercepts, and it could legally be done for national security purposes even if one of the parties was domestic. It was never about domestic spying.

no gnu taxes  posted on  2011-05-05   15:36:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: no gnu taxes (#57)

Bush had always maintained that his program was about foreign intercepts

BULLSHIT.

WASHINGTON, Dec. 15 - Months after the Sept. 11 attacks, President Bush secretly authorized the National Security Agency to eavesdrop on Americans and others inside the United States to search for evidence of terrorist activity without the court-approved warrants ordinarily required for domestic spying, according to government officials.

war  posted on  2011-05-05   15:38:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: war, no gnu taxes, ferret mike, lucysmom, godwinson, rek, jwpegler, badeye, skip intro, fred mertz, rudgear, a k a stone (#58) (Edited)

Here's the bottom line: Barack Obama put his entire presidency on the line last weekend when he ordered the commando assault of Bin Laden's compound. He could have taken the easy way out and ordered a bombing, but instead he chose the most difficult option because he correctly calculated that we needed proof that we had actually gotten Bin Laden.

Had the mission failed. Had the stalled chopper crashed in mid-flight, had the two helicopters collided like in 1979, or had Bin Laden not been there, he would have been deemed a failure. His presidency would have been over, and he would have walked off into the sunset in 2012.

Instead the mission is a success and the entire Republican narrative of Obama as a weak, vacillating leader who won't take risks and can't make up his mind is gone. Out the window, never to be seen again.

This is driving Republicans up a wall as we see from the posters here and the GOP pundits on TV/Radio, trying to do everything they can to spin this as "Obama doesn't deserve any credit." That's false and they know it.

What really eats them up is the fact that the mission succeeded. They, deep in their hearts wish that Bin Laden slipped away among the wreckage of dead SEALs and downed choppers because it would have damaged Obama beyond repair. That, IMHO, is utterly disgusting.

go65  posted on  2011-05-05   15:45:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: go65 (#62)

What really eats them up is the fact that the mission succeeded. They, deep in their hearts wish that Bin Laden slipped away among the wreckage of dead SEALs and downed choppers because it would have damaged Obama beyond repair. That, IMHO, is utterly disgusting.

It is disgusting and more than a little frightening how far some are willing to go to see one man destroyed.

lucysmom  posted on  2011-05-05   19:18:37 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: lucysmom (#86)

It is disgusting and more than a little frightening how far some are willing to go to see one man destroyed.

I am glad you finally are feeling regret about how you leftards treated President Bush.

no gnu taxes  posted on  2011-05-05   19:20:52 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: no gnu taxes (#87)

I am glad you finally are feeling regret about how you leftards treated President Bush.

I questioned Bush's judgment, not his citizenship, sexual identity, patriotism, or parentage.

In general, Laura was treated much better by the left than either Hillary or Michelle has been treated by the right - were there any equivalents from the left of "Manchelle", "first Wookiee", or "Hitlery" applied to Laura?

lucysmom  posted on  2011-05-05   19:37:22 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: lucysmom (#88) (Edited)

I questioned Bush's judgment

Does that mean you questioned Obama's judgement as he has continued Bush's course on just about everything.

not his citizenship, sexual identity, patriotism, or parentage.

And Obama has brought that on himself by his own statements, secrecies, and actions.

no gnu taxes  posted on  2011-05-05   19:42:47 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#94. To: no gnu taxes (#90)

"And Obama has brought that on himself by his own statements, secrecies, and actions."

All he did was provide a birth certificate and you guys created a game about short forms that are very common and legal that was just a waste of time and in and of itself was responsible for the controversy.

It is the hight of hypocrisy that he started it, by rightfully defending himself by opportunistic and mean spirited attacks with a racist component to them.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2011-05-05   20:07:57 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#99. To: Ferret Mike, no gnu taxes, ALL (#94)

All he did was provide a birth certificate and you guys created a game about short forms that are very common and legal that was just a waste of time and in and of itself was responsible for the controversy.

It is the hight of hypocrisy that he started it, by rightfully defending himself by opportunistic and mean spirited attacks with a racist component to them.

If you're talking about that amaturish document he had posted at whitehouse.gov, then I know you didn't do any research on it yourself, you took it at face value. I downloaded it from his website and transfered to my adobe and saw it for the miserable fraud it was.

But I think that is beside the point after I discovered what Congress did to McCain when he decided to run in 08', he was raked over the coals over his eligibility.

Congress tried to settle McCains Natural Born status by passing a resolution…. In doing so they, have proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that Obama was ineligible to be POTUS. The question that bugs the shit out of most people who can still think for themselves is, 'why McCain, and not Obama'?

If you want to see the proof I will provide it, all of it, just say so, but something tells me you wouldn't know the thruth even if you staring at the 'resolution'! The loonie left and ignorant people like you are the ones who make this into a race issue, but none of you had a damn thing to say when it happened to McCain, WHY!

Dispute what I say with facts, not inuendo's, or, 'what you think', because you don't think!

Murron  posted on  2011-05-05   20:44:35 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#108. To: Murron (#99)

"But I think that is beside the point after I discovered what Congress did to McCain when he decided to run in 08', he was raked over the coals over his eligibility."

The Senator Obama was a key supporter and co sponsor of the resolution by Congress certifying McCain as native born.

Senator Obama did not want McCain's birth in Panama because of his father's service and need to be there in the military get in the way of his wishes to try to win the White House and become president.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2011-05-05   21:16:05 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#110. To: Ferret Mike (#108)

The Senator Obama was a key supporter and co sponsor of the resolution by Congress certifying McCain as native born.

Senator Obama did not want McCain's birth in Panama because of his father's service and need to be there in the military get in the way of his wishes to try to win the White House and become president.

Let me ask you one question, don't wonder away onto any other issue, please.

If it had turned out that McCains 'father' was a 'British' subject, but his mother was American, do you believe that McCain, by Congresses resolution, would he be eligible for POTUS?

Murron  posted on  2011-05-05   21:23:32 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#113. To: Murron (#110) (Edited)

"If it had turned out that McCains 'father' was a 'British' subject, but his mother was American, do you believe that McCain, by Congresses resolution, would he be eligible for POTUS? "

Yes. Because if his father had been a citizen of England and was serving the U.S. Military as was the point of the resolution, that fact would of trumped any issue regarding his citizenship.

And I know all about this issue having served in the military with comrades in arms who weren't U.S. citizens.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2011-05-05   21:34:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#121. To: Ferret Mike (#113)

Because if his father had been a citizen of England and was serving the U.S. Military

Well! Can you at least tell us which branch he served, and what year/war, he served during?

Murron  posted on  2011-05-05   22:01:25 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#125. To: Murron (#121) (Edited)

"Well! Can you at least tell us which branch he served, and what year/war, he served during?"

Your question concerned McCain's high ranking Naval officer father. Your posed hypocritical question involved a "what if."

If his Dad had been from England - and remember, he wasn't, this is a "what if' question. You do know what hypothetical means - I would hope; he would of sworn to uphold the U.S. Constitution and accept the president of the United States as his commander in chief.

Which would make the resolution granting McCain has native born statue whether his father was English or American Native born in origin.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2011-05-05   22:13:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#128. To: Ferret Mike (#125)

Your question concerned McCain's high ranking Naval officer father. Your posed hypocritical question involved a "what if."

If his Dad had been from England - and remember, he wasn't, this is a "what if' question. You do know what hypothetical means - I would hope; he would of sworn to uphold the U.S. Constitution and accept the president of the United States as his commander in chief.

Which would make the resolution granting Mccain has native born statue whether his father was English or American Native born in origin.

You talk too much, you claimed Obama served in the US military, and this qualified him as a US citizen. When did Obama Sr. serve? Where did Obama Sr. serve?

If you can back up this piece of BS, then we'll get back to McCain, but my moneys says you ain't got a leg to stand on.

Murron  posted on  2011-05-05   22:24:20 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 128.

#130. To: Murron (#128)

Why would I say President Obama was in the U.S. Armed forces and he wasn't?

I responded to your hypothetical, and you can't keep the 'what if' in it separated from reality, whom I an talking about and in reference to what straight in your head.

Perhaps instead of it being me who is talking too much, perhaps it is you who are not able to process enough factors at the same time, and so it just seems like I 'talk too much.'

Thanks for sharing my dear. Work on it and when you get a flash of insight as to how everything we spoke of goes together, you will be in better shape to try to understand what you are trying to talk about, and what I actually said.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2011-05-05 22:32:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 128.

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