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Title: Early Days of US Involvement in VN
Source:
National Archives and Records Administration
URL Source: [None]
Published: Apr 20, 2011
Author: Unknown
Post Date: 2011-04-20 11:12:45 by sneakypete
Ping List: *Military or Vets Affairs* Subscribe to *Military or Vets Affairs*
Keywords: None
Views: 51492
Comments: 64
Poster Comment: This is a documentary type thing from the early days in VN about Special Forces involvement in recruiting and training the locals. Notice the guys are still wearing regular fatigues,white name tags,and gold stripes,and they are all still carrying WW-2 weapons. Not real sure of the year,but I was issued a full-auto AR-15 and jungle fatigues when I got to Bragg in 64. Which means this was probably a team that was TDY from the 5th while it was still at Bragg. IIRC,the 5th deployed to VN in 65,and by then they should have all been wearing jungle fatigues.
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#1. To: sneakypete (#0)
Is this the Anderson Platoon? GREAT documentary...
America...My Kind Of Place...
Thanks Pete. You know, I'm so used to seeing the 5th GRP flash with the South Vietnam flag through it, I have had to think when seeing the restored flash to remember the 5th group flash is black. We used to use the obsolete OG-107s in my unit when going overseas. Usually as part of a sterile uniform (no rank, name or organization markings). A Special forces office designed that originally slant pocket uniform. It was always my favorite. I always liked the obsolete BAR squad weapon too. The one nice thing about the arms room of a Special Forces unit is it always has many interesting weapons a standard infantry arms room never would see.
I have no idea what a Anderson Platoon is,but this is a A-Team from the 5th Special Forces Group.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
I liked the BAR belt,and used one a lot in VN. I LOVED the BAR itself,but really didn't want to carry one in the thick jungle. Lots of SOG guys carried a RPD,though. BTW,I wasn't there early day s back when everybody was using WW-2 weapons,but from what I have been told lots of SF guys carried either a M-2 or M-3,but were known to grab the BAR from a yard BAR man when in direct contact. Which really makes sense. If you have ever fired a BAR from the shoulder you can imagine how it would walk a 100 lb yard around. They could do ok in the prone on a bi-pod,but it was tough for them to control while standing or kneeling.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
It wasn't what I thought. Good documentary - so far - tho. Are you in it?
America...My Kind Of Place...
America...My Kind Of Place...
Gatlin or harrowup sez he was Vietnam when it REALLY started in 1955. Got any video from that year?
"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"
LOL! No! This was probably done in 61-63,and I didn't even join the army until early 64. Some of the guys in that clip are WW-2 and Korean War vets.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
He's correct. SEATO was signed about that time and we started stockpiling weaponry in LAOS 1954. Both Eisenhower and LBJ had the USAF specifically target places in Laos, Cambodia an North Viet Nam for nuclear weapons.
America...My Kind Of Place...
I bet you were really pissed when you realized that instead of killing commies for mommy, you were making the world safe for tire manufacturing and oil exploration.
"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"
I don't dispute the history I just want to know if he's got any video.
"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"
Sneaky was pissed because they wouldn't let him fight the war.
America...My Kind Of Place...
Every Vietnam Vet I ever met said the war would have been over in minutes with a few strategic bombs to the Red River dikes.
"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"
It was insane to not invade the North.
America...My Kind Of Place...
The video you posted is of a platoon from the 1st Calvary Division. I saw nothing special about it one way or the other except for the leftist spin about "most of them are draftees and minorities". It is a PROVEN FACT that in relation to their percentage of the population fewer blacks than whites died in VN,and that most of the combat soldiers in VN were volunteers,not draftees. BTW,if you want to watch one of the two best war movies ever made,watch "We Were Soldiers Once,and Young". It stars Mel Gibson and is about the first major battle any American division ever got into with the NVA,and this was the 1st Calvary Divison. The battle took place in the Ia Drang Valley,and just like every other time the NVA fought the US Army or the USMC head to head,they had their asses handed to them. Very little of the movie is about the actual combat in the Ia Drang Valley,though. It starts out with Gibson's character taking over command of the newly reconstituted 1st Calvary Division at Ft Benning,Ga,and preparing them for transfer to and battle in VN. They were to be the US military's test division to try the air mobile concept,where helicopters would deliver the infantrymen to the battleground. This was a brand new division in every respect other than the name. VERY few of the officers on NCO's had ever worked together before,and none of the E-4's and below even knew each other unless they met in basic training or jump school. What happened was the 1st Calvary Division was based in South Korea,so rather than transfer all those personnel back to Ga,the army just transferred the unit colors and designation to Ga,and populated the division with all new soldiers. A lot of these new soldiers came from the 11th Airborn Division in Germany,which was transferred back to Benning from Germany,lock,stock,and barrel. Then the army retired the division colors and transferred the soldiers to the newly reconstituted 1st Air Calvary Division. I guess the point can be made that the 11th ABN guys all knew and had worked with each other,but they were a division in name only,and their personnel were scattered to various units instead of kept together. I guess the thought was for them to provide a base of experience to help train the newbies,but it also created a problem of sending a division of inexperienced soldiers into combat who didn't know each other. This was the job of LTC Hal Moore (Gibson's role) and SGM Basil Plumley (Sam Elliot). They had to train the troops before they were deployed,and turn them from a group of inexperienced strangers into a group of experienced soldiers who knew each others strengths and weaknesses,and could count on each other. Which job they did very well. BTW,Aloha Ronnie from the old FR days was Moore's radio operator during the Ia Drang battle,and he said Gibson nailed Moore's character. I know of some older SF guys that knew Plumley from his Korean War days,and they said that Sam Elliot absolutely nailed Plumley. In a early scene when the officers call is held to introduce the new CO to the assembled officers,Moore introduces Plumley and tells the officers in unmistakable terms that "I monitor what the officers are doing,and SGM Plumley takes care of the enlisted. You should know right now that SGM Plumley is free to go where ever he wants to go at any time,and to stick his nose in at any time and ask any questions he wants to ask. Nobody in the division outranks him except me,and you had better pay attention to his suggestions and answer his questions." Then he tells them that physical conditioning is important and that he and Plumley come from the Airborne,and "The Airborne like to run. Ain't that so SGM Plumley?" Plumly answers "yes sir!",and then you can see in the following scenes the old man runs them into the ground. Maybe even more importantly that the training and development stuff,you get to know the men on a personal level and get to know their wives and children. This may be the best damn movie about the army that has ever been made,and is one of the best movies that has ever been made,period. Blackhawk Down is the other good war movie,but there's not much in it other than soldiers and soldiering. Hamburger Hill was ok. Especially the night combat scenes. Every other war movie I have seen was shit compared to these movies. BTW,out of the 187 graduates of my jump school class,most went to the 11th Air Assault in Benning. This was before the 1st Cav colors were brought back from Korea,even though that was in the works. The rest mostly went to the 173rd Abn on Okinawa. I think me and one other graduate were the only ones on orders to the Special Warfare School at Bragg.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
LOLOL The draft directly affected the rate of volunteer. At least if you volunteered you (sort of) got a choice.
"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"
The documentary was actually French made. And I believe in France it was released as a "10 years later" kind of thing. AS for draftee v. enlistees...I know a lot of guys who "enlisted" only after they got their draft notice. I've read Moore's book and I've seen the movie. There is another book out there called, simply, Pleiku and it was written by Lt. Col JD Coleman. It lays out the thought, planning and logistics and then the first battle of the Air Cav. Little known fact about Air Cav is that it was originally conceived for Korea by the same guy who told the Nazi's "NUTS" at Bastogne...General Anthony McAuliffe.
America...My Kind Of Place...
LOL! Good one! American involvement in VN started during WW-2,when King Franklin sent some OSS officers to VN to serve with Ho Chi Mihn and help them defeat the Japanese. They all left when the war ended in 1945 and VN was turned over to the VN communists in the north,and the French in the south. There were a few officer observers with the French,but very few. I believe at least one was at Dien Binh Phu when the French surrendered and were taken prisoners. After the fall of French Indo-China (south VN)in 1954,I am not aware of any US military presence in SVN until 1959. There were some US Military observers in VN in 1959. IIRC,the first combat troops were sent there in 1961. They were SF troops,mostly from Okinawa,but a few were from the 77th and the 5th SFG's at Bragg. Harrowup claims to have been a Naval Officer,so if he was there in 55 it was either as a part of a Navy port call,or he was assigned to the embassy in Saigon as a Naval Observer. Either way it was in a non-combat role. Back in 55 we and the commies in were picking teams,and since the commies were backing the team from the north,we backed the team from the south. As a result of this a LOT of WW-2 surplus arms,equipment,uniforms,vehicles,and everything else under the sun was given to the SV government,and there had to be some supply/accounting type personnel there to account for everything and make sure it was signed for. After all,we gave them everything from toilet paper to fighter planes,and somebody had to keep track of all that stuff.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Once again,you are wrong. Killing communists is always a worthwhile thing to do on it's own. You need no other reason than they need to be killed.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
No,I was pissed because they wouldn't let the conventional Army,AF,and USMC fight the war. I was in SOG,and we had damn few restrictions. We were doing to the NVA what they were doing to the other US forces.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Then China would have been the best supplier of targets.
"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"
Absolutely! NEVER fight a war you don't intend on winning. Other than WW-1 and WW-2,every war we have ever fought has been fought to try and get the enemy to the point they want to quit fighting,not to defeat them and occupy their country. The classic example of this is the War of Northern Aggression. The South never intended to defeat and occupy the north,and they could have probably taken DC any time they wanted the first year of the war. They didn't because they were convinced the north would look at the causalities they were suffering and just decide to quit fighting. We can all see how well THAT strategy worked out. My view on this is simple. NEVER fight a war you don't intend on winning. If it ain't serious enough you want to occupy the enemy's land and hang the leaders,it ain't serious enough to go to war over. Period.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
War of Northern Aggression?
America...My Kind Of Place...
According to who? Yeah,the draft had an effect on who enlisted in the Air Force and the Navy,but it had nothing to do with the soldiers and Marines that volunteered to go to VN. Special Forces had a waiting list you had to get on to be sent to VN,and it was mostly guys that had already been once that had enough pull to get their names put at the top of the list. Some guys had to reenlist specifically for an assignment to VN in order to get sent there. At least if you volunteered you (sort of) got a choice. If you enlisted for 3 or more years you could be given a choice of any military school (job) you wanted that you were qualified for. If you were in the Army or the USMC,that did NOT mean you wouldn't get sent to VN. Don't forget,90% of the Army and the USMC never heard a shot fired their whole tour. Most soldiers and Marines are cooks,mechanics,clerks,truck drivers,etc,etc,etc. It did mean you could usually avoid serving as a infantryman,though.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Have it on DVD, the 'extra's' featuring interviews with all are facinating. Great great movie. Kinnar was great as the chopper pilot, btw. Impressed the hell out of me, as he did again recently in 'The Kennedy's''. 2nd btw, I have a M2 Carbine today. Love it.
I hear you knockin...go back where you been....
At the beginning, to get guys to go, they were offering two years active if you did one tour of the RVN...
America...My Kind Of Place...
Ok,you just told me something I didn't know. BTW,he was the CG of the 101st Abn Div at Bastogne. I had a cousin who was a platoon sgt in a rifle company of the 101st all during WW-2. Actually,he started out as a private and was a platoon sgt by the time the war ended.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
The enemy was China but the goal was rubber and oil.
"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"
I agree,and am totally mystified about why we didn't take those bastards out during the Korean War. We should have.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
I had an Uncle in Easy...Tidewater Virginian...a real hoot of a character. My dad always called him a hero and treated him with a deference the he had reserved for only one other person. That person was a neighbor who had "stormed the beach at Normandy".
America...My Kind Of Place...
Yeah,it was from 1861 to 1865.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Contemporary American History:
America...My Kind Of Place...
Where?
America...My Kind Of Place...
Did you ever get around to reading the book?
------------------------------------- No kidding. For a guy that started off as a talk show host,damned if he didn't turn into one of the best actors in the business. 2nd btw, I have a M2 Carbine today. Love it You may have a M1 carbine,but I doubt you have a M2. The M2's had a selector switch and could fire fully automatic. The M1 Carbine is a fun little rifle to play around with,but when it came time to buy a WW-2 rifle I went with the big boy. The M-1 Garand. Mine is a 1942 Winchester version,and a tack driver.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Sure...Boofer...sure you do...
America...My Kind Of Place...
That's the first time I ever heard of that. I do know it was possible to "volunteer for the draft",and a lot of people did that for their own convenience. They wanted to get their 2 year obligation out of the way before they started school. Remember,just because you were drafted didn't mean you would be sent to VN. Most draftees weren't. Some (a lot?) of those who were drafted and given orders for the infantry opted to enlist for 3 years instead of serve two as a draftee,and by picking this option they got to pick the school they went to. This was no guarantee they wouldn't be sent to VN,but it did pretty much guarantee they wouldn't go there as a infantryman. They may have had to pull a extra year at most,but it was win-win for them because they got to pick a specialty school where they could learn a trade they could earn a living working once they were discharged. Not much demand for infantryman in civilian life.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Both of his sons enlisted in the airborne infantry during the VN war and both volunteered to go to VN. Both ended up serving with the 82nd Abn Div,though. One was killed a few years after discharge in a car accident,and the other one took over the family construction business when his father retired. He is a multi-millionaire now,but still says if he had to do it all over again he would stay in the army because there is nothing in life he would rather do than be a platoon sgt in a airborne infantry rifle company.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Uncle Punk couldn't be killed via conventional means. It took falling off of a volunteer fire truck during a parade or something to do it and even then it was a week. He was living in a nursing home having outlived just about everyone close to him...even a grand child...
America...My Kind Of Place...
Funny how that is so unlike our generation. I listened to a good portion of Mom and Dad's side romanticize their time in the military...not too many ours.
America...My Kind Of Place...
Mostly in the south,due to the yankees invading the south with the intention of taking over. The ONLY chance the south had was blown when they didn't occupy DC early in the war and demand hostilities cease. There is no way a agricultural economy can fight a conventional war with an industrial society,and hope to win.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
South of what nation?
America...My Kind Of Place...
No. Is it as good as the movie?
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Never mind...missed the word "conventional"...
America...My Kind Of Place...
I think that is because most of our generation either didn't serve,or didn't serve in a actual combat position where you learn to value and appreciate things like honor and leadership. I do think things are slowly changing back again now,though. Military people are now shown respect by almost everybody. It is no longer looked upon by so many as a place where losers go to avoid jail time. Or at least most of the people who think that don't have the guts to say it out loud,anyhow.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Yes. So much better I left the movie half way through. I'd be interested in your opinion of the book if you ever get around to it.
------------------------------------- South of the United States. The south became a separate nation once they LEGALLY seceded from the union they had VOLUNTARILY JOINED.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Tell that to the USA and USSR. Really? When and where did all this happen?
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
This is why I make it a practice to NEVER read the book before I see the movie. This way I get to enjoy both. Why not write a book review of it,and ping me to it? I'll hit the book and movie review ping list.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
I don't know what I'd review, exactly. I found the book incredibly exciting, because it was a minute by minute report of the street fighting and I'd never read anything like it before. I have no experience militarily so I'd like to see what a soldier who'd experienced close combat thought of it. I suppose I could always ask badeye if he's read it. Even combat-gunning against frogs is more military experience than me.
------------------------------------- Mexico?
America...My Kind Of Place...
They were also offering incentivized deals to those stationed in Germany if they would go over to Vietnam.
"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"
I believe that you and I discussed this when Kerry was running.
America...My Kind Of Place...
Chuckles...that left a mark... BTW, I agree, BHD is a GREAT read...especially when you consider that the art of combat reporting is long lost...
America...My Kind Of Place...
Here is the original newspaper series of articles that was later expanded into the book: http://inquirer.philly.com/packages/somalia/nov16/default16.asp I went on google earth a while back and zoomed in on all the streets where this took place. Fascinating stuff.
------------------------------------- Sorry, yep M1 carbine. Knew I guy back in the early 80's with an M2. Fun to shoot, if expensive and hard to keep on target. As for your M-1 Garand, yep, tack driver is a great description. Only fired one a few times, but damned if it isn't as accurate as claimed.
I hear you knockin...go back where you been....
I think that 'change' in attitude was realized years ago, beginning right after the Gulf War. Early 80's you still had the bullshit 'baby killer' mantra going around, openly. Today, I'm always routinely greeted with kind words if I happen to be wearing a 'US Navy Veteran' ballcap, or the USS Independence ball cap. Especially by the generation thats 30 or younger.
I hear you knockin...go back where you been....
lol
------------------------------------- Oh biffy, whatsamatter, not getting enough attention from mommy today?
I hear you knockin...go back where you been....
I believe that you and I discussed this when Kerry was running. Maybe,but if so,I have forgotten.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
I did read those,and that was damn impressive writing.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Believe it or not, the book is more in depth and better.
------------------------------------- You were at Bragg? I was at Pope AFB, but 15 years later.
Off and on. Unfortunately. SF is headquartered at Bragg,and it's pretty hard to avoid getting assigned there from time to time. Worse assignment I ever had.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
#2. To: sneakypete (#0)
#3. To: war (#1)
Is this the Anderson Platoon?
#4. To: Ferret Mike (#2)
(Edited)
I always liked the obsolete BAR squad weapon too.
#5. To: sneakypete (#3)
(Edited)
#6. To: sneakypete (#4)
#7. To: sneakypete (#0)
#8. To: war (#5)
Are you in it?
#9. To: Rek (#7)
Gatlin or harrowup sez he was Vietnam when it REALLY started in 1955. Got any video from that year?
#10. To: sneakypete (#8)
LOL! No! This was probably done in 61-63,and I didn't even join the army until early 64. Some of the guys in that clip are WW-2 and Korean War vets.
#11. To: war (#9)
(Edited)
He's correct. SEATO was signed about that time and we started stockpiling weaponry in LAOS 1954. Both Eisenhower and LBJ had the USAF specifically target places in Laos, Cambodia an North Viet Nam for nuclear weapons.
#12. To: Rek (#10)
#13. To: war (#12)
Sneaky was pissed because they wouldn't let him fight the war.
#14. To: Rek (#13)
#15. To: war (#6)
(Edited)
#16. To: sneakypete (#15)
The video you posted is of a platoon from the 1st Calvary Division. I saw nothing special about it one way or the other except for the leftist spin about "most of them are draftees and minorities". It is a PROVEN FACT that in relation to their percentage of the population fewer blacks than whites died in VN,and that most of the combat soldiers in VN were volunteers,not draftees.
#17. To: sneakypete (#15)
The video you posted is of a platoon from the 1st Calvary Division. I saw nothing special about it one way or the other except for the leftist spin about "most of them are draftees and minorities". It is a PROVEN FACT that in relation to their percentage of the population fewer blacks than whites died in VN,and that most of the combat soldiers in VN were volunteers,not draftees.
#18. To: Rek (#7)
Gatlin or harrowup sez he was Vietnam when it REALLY started in 1955. Got any video from that year?
#19. To: Rek (#10)
I bet you were really pissed when you realized that instead of killing commies for mommy, you were making the world safe for tire manufacturing and oil exploration.
#20. To: war (#12)
Sneaky was pissed because they wouldn't let him fight the war.
#21. To: sneakypete (#19)
Once again,you are wrong. Killing communists is always a worthwhile thing to do on it's own. You need no other reason than they need to be killed
#22. To: war (#14)
It was insane to not invade the North.
#23. To: sneakypete (#22)
#24. To: Rek (#16)
LOLOL The draft directly affected the rate of volunteer.
#25. To: sneakypete (#15)
BTW,if you want to watch one of the two best war movies ever made,watch "We Were Soldiers Once,and Young".
#26. To: sneakypete (#24)
#27. To: war (#17)
Little known fact about Air Cav is that it was originally conceived for Korea by the same guy who told the Nazi's "NUTS" at Bastogne...General Anthony McAuliffe.
#28. To: sneakypete (#22)
Absolutely! NEVER fight a war you don't intend on winning. Other than WW-1 and WW-2,every war we have ever fought has been fought to try and get the enemy to the point they want to quit fighting,not to defeat them and occupy their country.
#29. To: Rek (#21)
Then China would have been the best supplier of targets.
#30. To: sneakypete (#27)
(Edited)
#31. To: war (#23)
War of Northern Aggression?
#32. To: sneakypete (#29)
I agree,and am totally mystified about why we didn't take those bastards out during the Korean War. We should have.
#33. To: sneakypete (#31)
#34. To: sneakypete (#15)
Blackhawk Down is the other good war movie,but there's not much in it other than soldiers and soldiering.
Why don't you make like a tree and get out of here?
#35. To: Badeye (#25)
Kinnar was great as the chopper pilot, btw. Impressed the hell out of me, as he did again recently in 'The Kennedy's''.
#36. To: Badeye (#25)
2nd btw, I have a M2 Carbine today. Love it.
#37. To: war (#26)
At the beginning, to get guys to go, they were offering two years active if you did one tour of the RVN...
#38. To: war (#30)
I had an Uncle in Easy...Tidewater Virginian...a real hoot of a character
#39. To: sneakypete (#38)
#40. To: sneakypete (#38)
He is a multi-millionaire now,but still says if he had to do it all over again he would stay in the army because there is nothing in life he would rather do than be a platoon sgt in a airborne infantry rifle company.
#41. To: war (#33)
Where?
#42. To: sneakypete (#41)
#43. To: Biff Tannen (#34)
Did you ever get around to reading the book?
#44. To: sneakypete (#41)
(Edited)
#45. To: war (#40)
Funny how that is so unlike our generation. I listened to a good portion of Mom and Dad's side romanticize their time in the military...not too many ours.
#46. To: sneakypete (#43)
No. Is it as good as the movie?
Why don't you make like a tree and get out of here?
#47. To: war (#42)
South of what nation?
#48. To: war (#44)
There is no way a agricultural economy can fight a conventional war with an industrial society,and hope to win.
#49. To: Biff Tannen (#46)
Yes. So much better I left the movie half way through.
#50. To: sneakypete (#49)
Why don't you make like a tree and get out of here?
#51. To: sneakypete (#47)
#52. To: sneakypete (#37)
#53. To: sneakypete (#37)
That's the first time I ever heard of that.
#54. To: Biff Tannen (#50)
#55. To: war, sneakypete (#54)
Why don't you make like a tree and get out of here?
#56. To: sneakypete (#35)
You may have a M1 carbine,but I doubt you have a M2. The M2's had a selector switch and could fire fully automatic.
#57. To: sneakypete (#45)
I do think things are slowly changing back again now,though. Military people are now shown respect by almost everybody. It is no longer looked upon by so many as a place where losers go to avoid jail time.
#58. To: Badeye (#57)
if I happen to be wearing a 'US Navy Veteran' ballcap, or the USS Independence
Why don't you make like a tree and get out of here?
#59. To: Biff Tannen (#58)
#60. To: war (#53)
That's the first time I ever heard of that.
#61. To: Biff Tannen (#55)
Here is the original newspaper series of articles that was later expanded into the book:
#62. To: sneakypete (#61)
Why don't you make like a tree and get out of here?
#63. To: sneakypete (#0)
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#64. To: jwpegler (#63)
You were at Bragg?
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