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Title: Early Days of US Involvement in VN
Source:
National Archives and Records Administration
URL Source: [None]
Published: Apr 20, 2011
Author: Unknown
Post Date: 2011-04-20 11:12:45 by sneakypete
Ping List: *Military or Vets Affairs* Subscribe to *Military or Vets Affairs*
Keywords: None
Views: 53467
Comments: 64
Poster Comment: This is a documentary type thing from the early days in VN about Special Forces involvement in recruiting and training the locals. Notice the guys are still wearing regular fatigues,white name tags,and gold stripes,and they are all still carrying WW-2 weapons. Not real sure of the year,but I was issued a full-auto AR-15 and jungle fatigues when I got to Bragg in 64. Which means this was probably a team that was TDY from the 5th while it was still at Bragg. IIRC,the 5th deployed to VN in 65,and by then they should have all been wearing jungle fatigues.
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#24. To: Rek (#16)
According to who? Yeah,the draft had an effect on who enlisted in the Air Force and the Navy,but it had nothing to do with the soldiers and Marines that volunteered to go to VN. Special Forces had a waiting list you had to get on to be sent to VN,and it was mostly guys that had already been once that had enough pull to get their names put at the top of the list. Some guys had to reenlist specifically for an assignment to VN in order to get sent there. At least if you volunteered you (sort of) got a choice. If you enlisted for 3 or more years you could be given a choice of any military school (job) you wanted that you were qualified for. If you were in the Army or the USMC,that did NOT mean you wouldn't get sent to VN. Don't forget,90% of the Army and the USMC never heard a shot fired their whole tour. Most soldiers and Marines are cooks,mechanics,clerks,truck drivers,etc,etc,etc. It did mean you could usually avoid serving as a infantryman,though.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Have it on DVD, the 'extra's' featuring interviews with all are facinating. Great great movie. Kinnar was great as the chopper pilot, btw. Impressed the hell out of me, as he did again recently in 'The Kennedy's''. 2nd btw, I have a M2 Carbine today. Love it.
I hear you knockin...go back where you been....
At the beginning, to get guys to go, they were offering two years active if you did one tour of the RVN...
America...My Kind Of Place...
Ok,you just told me something I didn't know. BTW,he was the CG of the 101st Abn Div at Bastogne. I had a cousin who was a platoon sgt in a rifle company of the 101st all during WW-2. Actually,he started out as a private and was a platoon sgt by the time the war ended.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
The enemy was China but the goal was rubber and oil.
"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"
I agree,and am totally mystified about why we didn't take those bastards out during the Korean War. We should have.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
I had an Uncle in Easy...Tidewater Virginian...a real hoot of a character. My dad always called him a hero and treated him with a deference the he had reserved for only one other person. That person was a neighbor who had "stormed the beach at Normandy".
America...My Kind Of Place...
Yeah,it was from 1861 to 1865.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Contemporary American History:
America...My Kind Of Place...
Where?
America...My Kind Of Place...
Did you ever get around to reading the book?
------------------------------------- No kidding. For a guy that started off as a talk show host,damned if he didn't turn into one of the best actors in the business. 2nd btw, I have a M2 Carbine today. Love it You may have a M1 carbine,but I doubt you have a M2. The M2's had a selector switch and could fire fully automatic. The M1 Carbine is a fun little rifle to play around with,but when it came time to buy a WW-2 rifle I went with the big boy. The M-1 Garand. Mine is a 1942 Winchester version,and a tack driver.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Sure...Boofer...sure you do...
America...My Kind Of Place...
That's the first time I ever heard of that. I do know it was possible to "volunteer for the draft",and a lot of people did that for their own convenience. They wanted to get their 2 year obligation out of the way before they started school. Remember,just because you were drafted didn't mean you would be sent to VN. Most draftees weren't. Some (a lot?) of those who were drafted and given orders for the infantry opted to enlist for 3 years instead of serve two as a draftee,and by picking this option they got to pick the school they went to. This was no guarantee they wouldn't be sent to VN,but it did pretty much guarantee they wouldn't go there as a infantryman. They may have had to pull a extra year at most,but it was win-win for them because they got to pick a specialty school where they could learn a trade they could earn a living working once they were discharged. Not much demand for infantryman in civilian life.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Both of his sons enlisted in the airborne infantry during the VN war and both volunteered to go to VN. Both ended up serving with the 82nd Abn Div,though. One was killed a few years after discharge in a car accident,and the other one took over the family construction business when his father retired. He is a multi-millionaire now,but still says if he had to do it all over again he would stay in the army because there is nothing in life he would rather do than be a platoon sgt in a airborne infantry rifle company.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Uncle Punk couldn't be killed via conventional means. It took falling off of a volunteer fire truck during a parade or something to do it and even then it was a week. He was living in a nursing home having outlived just about everyone close to him...even a grand child...
America...My Kind Of Place...
Funny how that is so unlike our generation. I listened to a good portion of Mom and Dad's side romanticize their time in the military...not too many ours.
America...My Kind Of Place...
Mostly in the south,due to the yankees invading the south with the intention of taking over. The ONLY chance the south had was blown when they didn't occupy DC early in the war and demand hostilities cease. There is no way a agricultural economy can fight a conventional war with an industrial society,and hope to win.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
South of what nation?
America...My Kind Of Place...
No. Is it as good as the movie?
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Never mind...missed the word "conventional"...
America...My Kind Of Place...
I think that is because most of our generation either didn't serve,or didn't serve in a actual combat position where you learn to value and appreciate things like honor and leadership. I do think things are slowly changing back again now,though. Military people are now shown respect by almost everybody. It is no longer looked upon by so many as a place where losers go to avoid jail time. Or at least most of the people who think that don't have the guts to say it out loud,anyhow.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Yes. So much better I left the movie half way through. I'd be interested in your opinion of the book if you ever get around to it.
------------------------------------- South of the United States. The south became a separate nation once they LEGALLY seceded from the union they had VOLUNTARILY JOINED.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Tell that to the USA and USSR. Really? When and where did all this happen?
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
This is why I make it a practice to NEVER read the book before I see the movie. This way I get to enjoy both. Why not write a book review of it,and ping me to it? I'll hit the book and movie review ping list.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
I don't know what I'd review, exactly. I found the book incredibly exciting, because it was a minute by minute report of the street fighting and I'd never read anything like it before. I have no experience militarily so I'd like to see what a soldier who'd experienced close combat thought of it. I suppose I could always ask badeye if he's read it. Even combat-gunning against frogs is more military experience than me.
------------------------------------- Mexico?
America...My Kind Of Place...
They were also offering incentivized deals to those stationed in Germany if they would go over to Vietnam.
"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"
I believe that you and I discussed this when Kerry was running.
America...My Kind Of Place...
Chuckles...that left a mark... BTW, I agree, BHD is a GREAT read...especially when you consider that the art of combat reporting is long lost...
America...My Kind Of Place...
Here is the original newspaper series of articles that was later expanded into the book: http://inquirer.philly.com/packages/somalia/nov16/default16.asp I went on google earth a while back and zoomed in on all the streets where this took place. Fascinating stuff.
------------------------------------- Sorry, yep M1 carbine. Knew I guy back in the early 80's with an M2. Fun to shoot, if expensive and hard to keep on target. As for your M-1 Garand, yep, tack driver is a great description. Only fired one a few times, but damned if it isn't as accurate as claimed.
I hear you knockin...go back where you been....
I think that 'change' in attitude was realized years ago, beginning right after the Gulf War. Early 80's you still had the bullshit 'baby killer' mantra going around, openly. Today, I'm always routinely greeted with kind words if I happen to be wearing a 'US Navy Veteran' ballcap, or the USS Independence ball cap. Especially by the generation thats 30 or younger.
I hear you knockin...go back where you been....
lol
------------------------------------- Oh biffy, whatsamatter, not getting enough attention from mommy today?
I hear you knockin...go back where you been....
I believe that you and I discussed this when Kerry was running. Maybe,but if so,I have forgotten.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
I did read those,and that was damn impressive writing.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Believe it or not, the book is more in depth and better.
------------------------------------- You were at Bragg? I was at Pope AFB, but 15 years later.
Off and on. Unfortunately. SF is headquartered at Bragg,and it's pretty hard to avoid getting assigned there from time to time. Worse assignment I ever had.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
LOLOL The draft directly affected the rate of volunteer.
#25. To: sneakypete (#15)
BTW,if you want to watch one of the two best war movies ever made,watch "We Were Soldiers Once,and Young".
#26. To: sneakypete (#24)
#27. To: war (#17)
Little known fact about Air Cav is that it was originally conceived for Korea by the same guy who told the Nazi's "NUTS" at Bastogne...General Anthony McAuliffe.
#28. To: sneakypete (#22)
Absolutely! NEVER fight a war you don't intend on winning. Other than WW-1 and WW-2,every war we have ever fought has been fought to try and get the enemy to the point they want to quit fighting,not to defeat them and occupy their country.
#29. To: Rek (#21)
Then China would have been the best supplier of targets.
#30. To: sneakypete (#27)
(Edited)
#31. To: war (#23)
War of Northern Aggression?
#32. To: sneakypete (#29)
I agree,and am totally mystified about why we didn't take those bastards out during the Korean War. We should have.
#33. To: sneakypete (#31)
#34. To: sneakypete (#15)
Blackhawk Down is the other good war movie,but there's not much in it other than soldiers and soldiering.
Why don't you make like a tree and get out of here?
#35. To: Badeye (#25)
Kinnar was great as the chopper pilot, btw. Impressed the hell out of me, as he did again recently in 'The Kennedy's''.
#36. To: Badeye (#25)
2nd btw, I have a M2 Carbine today. Love it.
#37. To: war (#26)
At the beginning, to get guys to go, they were offering two years active if you did one tour of the RVN...
#38. To: war (#30)
I had an Uncle in Easy...Tidewater Virginian...a real hoot of a character
#39. To: sneakypete (#38)
#40. To: sneakypete (#38)
He is a multi-millionaire now,but still says if he had to do it all over again he would stay in the army because there is nothing in life he would rather do than be a platoon sgt in a airborne infantry rifle company.
#41. To: war (#33)
Where?
#42. To: sneakypete (#41)
#43. To: Biff Tannen (#34)
Did you ever get around to reading the book?
#44. To: sneakypete (#41)
(Edited)
#45. To: war (#40)
Funny how that is so unlike our generation. I listened to a good portion of Mom and Dad's side romanticize their time in the military...not too many ours.
#46. To: sneakypete (#43)
No. Is it as good as the movie?
Why don't you make like a tree and get out of here?
#47. To: war (#42)
South of what nation?
#48. To: war (#44)
There is no way a agricultural economy can fight a conventional war with an industrial society,and hope to win.
#49. To: Biff Tannen (#46)
Yes. So much better I left the movie half way through.
#50. To: sneakypete (#49)
Why don't you make like a tree and get out of here?
#51. To: sneakypete (#47)
#52. To: sneakypete (#37)
#53. To: sneakypete (#37)
That's the first time I ever heard of that.
#54. To: Biff Tannen (#50)
#55. To: war, sneakypete (#54)
Why don't you make like a tree and get out of here?
#56. To: sneakypete (#35)
You may have a M1 carbine,but I doubt you have a M2. The M2's had a selector switch and could fire fully automatic.
#57. To: sneakypete (#45)
I do think things are slowly changing back again now,though. Military people are now shown respect by almost everybody. It is no longer looked upon by so many as a place where losers go to avoid jail time.
#58. To: Badeye (#57)
if I happen to be wearing a 'US Navy Veteran' ballcap, or the USS Independence
Why don't you make like a tree and get out of here?
#59. To: Biff Tannen (#58)
#60. To: war (#53)
That's the first time I ever heard of that.
#61. To: Biff Tannen (#55)
Here is the original newspaper series of articles that was later expanded into the book:
#62. To: sneakypete (#61)
Why don't you make like a tree and get out of here?
#63. To: sneakypete (#0)
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#64. To: jwpegler (#63)
You were at Bragg?
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