Title: Early Days of US Involvement in VN Source:
National Archives and Records Administration URL Source:[None] Published:Apr 20, 2011 Author:Unknown Post Date:2011-04-20 11:12:45 by sneakypete Ping List:*Military or Vets Affairs*Subscribe to *Military or Vets Affairs* Keywords:None Views:53483 Comments:64
Poster Comment:
This is a documentary type thing from the early days in VN about Special Forces involvement in recruiting and training the locals. Notice the guys are still wearing regular fatigues,white name tags,and gold stripes,and they are all still carrying WW-2 weapons. Not real sure of the year,but I was issued a full-auto AR-15 and jungle fatigues when I got to Bragg in 64. Which means this was probably a team that was TDY from the 5th while it was still at Bragg. IIRC,the 5th deployed to VN in 65,and by then they should have all been wearing jungle fatigues.
Thanks Pete. You know, I'm so used to seeing the 5th GRP flash with the South Vietnam flag through it, I have had to think when seeing the restored flash to remember the 5th group flash is black.
We used to use the obsolete OG-107s in my unit when going overseas. Usually as part of a sterile uniform (no rank, name or organization markings).
A Special forces office designed that originally slant pocket uniform. It was always my favorite. I always liked the obsolete BAR squad weapon too.
The one nice thing about the arms room of a Special Forces unit is it always has many interesting weapons a standard infantry arms room never would see.
I liked the BAR belt,and used one a lot in VN. I LOVED the BAR itself,but really didn't want to carry one in the thick jungle.
Lots of SOG guys carried a RPD,though.
BTW,I wasn't there early day s back when everybody was using WW-2 weapons,but from what I have been told lots of SF guys carried either a M-2 or M-3,but were known to grab the BAR from a yard BAR man when in direct contact. Which really makes sense. If you have ever fired a BAR from the shoulder you can imagine how it would walk a 100 lb yard around. They could do ok in the prone on a bi-pod,but it was tough for them to control while standing or kneeling.
The video you posted is of a platoon from the 1st Calvary Division. I saw nothing special about it one way or the other except for the leftist spin about "most of them are draftees and minorities". It is a PROVEN FACT that in relation to their percentage of the population fewer blacks than whites died in VN,and that most of the combat soldiers in VN were volunteers,not draftees.
BTW,if you want to watch one of the two best war movies ever made,watch "We Were Soldiers Once,and Young". It stars Mel Gibson and is about the first major battle any American division ever got into with the NVA,and this was the 1st Calvary Divison. The battle took place in the Ia Drang Valley,and just like every other time the NVA fought the US Army or the USMC head to head,they had their asses handed to them.
Very little of the movie is about the actual combat in the Ia Drang Valley,though. It starts out with Gibson's character taking over command of the newly reconstituted 1st Calvary Division at Ft Benning,Ga,and preparing them for transfer to and battle in VN. They were to be the US military's test division to try the air mobile concept,where helicopters would deliver the infantrymen to the battleground. This was a brand new division in every respect other than the name. VERY few of the officers on NCO's had ever worked together before,and none of the E-4's and below even knew each other unless they met in basic training or jump school. What happened was the 1st Calvary Division was based in South Korea,so rather than transfer all those personnel back to Ga,the army just transferred the unit colors and designation to Ga,and populated the division with all new soldiers. A lot of these new soldiers came from the 11th Airborn Division in Germany,which was transferred back to Benning from Germany,lock,stock,and barrel. Then the army retired the division colors and transferred the soldiers to the newly reconstituted 1st Air Calvary Division.
I guess the point can be made that the 11th ABN guys all knew and had worked with each other,but they were a division in name only,and their personnel were scattered to various units instead of kept together. I guess the thought was for them to provide a base of experience to help train the newbies,but it also created a problem of sending a division of inexperienced soldiers into combat who didn't know each other.
This was the job of LTC Hal Moore (Gibson's role) and SGM Basil Plumley (Sam Elliot). They had to train the troops before they were deployed,and turn them from a group of inexperienced strangers into a group of experienced soldiers who knew each others strengths and weaknesses,and could count on each other. Which job they did very well.
BTW,Aloha Ronnie from the old FR days was Moore's radio operator during the Ia Drang battle,and he said Gibson nailed Moore's character. I know of some older SF guys that knew Plumley from his Korean War days,and they said that Sam Elliot absolutely nailed Plumley.
In a early scene when the officers call is held to introduce the new CO to the assembled officers,Moore introduces Plumley and tells the officers in unmistakable terms that "I monitor what the officers are doing,and SGM Plumley takes care of the enlisted. You should know right now that SGM Plumley is free to go where ever he wants to go at any time,and to stick his nose in at any time and ask any questions he wants to ask. Nobody in the division outranks him except me,and you had better pay attention to his suggestions and answer his questions."
Then he tells them that physical conditioning is important and that he and Plumley come from the Airborne,and "The Airborne like to run. Ain't that so SGM Plumley?" Plumly answers "yes sir!",and then you can see in the following scenes the old man runs them into the ground.
Maybe even more importantly that the training and development stuff,you get to know the men on a personal level and get to know their wives and children.
This may be the best damn movie about the army that has ever been made,and is one of the best movies that has ever been made,period.
Blackhawk Down is the other good war movie,but there's not much in it other than soldiers and soldiering.
Hamburger Hill was ok. Especially the night combat scenes.
Every other war movie I have seen was shit compared to these movies.
BTW,out of the 187 graduates of my jump school class,most went to the 11th Air Assault in Benning. This was before the 1st Cav colors were brought back from Korea,even though that was in the works. The rest mostly went to the 173rd Abn on Okinawa. I think me and one other graduate were the only ones on orders to the Special Warfare School at Bragg.
The video you posted is of a platoon from the 1st Calvary Division. I saw nothing special about it one way or the other except for the leftist spin about "most of them are draftees and minorities". It is a PROVEN FACT that in relation to their percentage of the population fewer blacks than whites died in VN,and that most of the combat soldiers in VN were volunteers,not draftees.
The documentary was actually French made. And I believe in France it was released as a "10 years later" kind of thing.
AS for draftee v. enlistees...I know a lot of guys who "enlisted" only after they got their draft notice.
I've read Moore's book and I've seen the movie. There is another book out there called, simply, Pleiku and it was written by Lt. Col JD Coleman. It lays out the thought, planning and logistics and then the first battle of the Air Cav.
Little known fact about Air Cav is that it was originally conceived for Korea by the same guy who told the Nazi's "NUTS" at Bastogne...General Anthony McAuliffe.
Little known fact about Air Cav is that it was originally conceived for Korea by the same guy who told the Nazi's "NUTS" at Bastogne...General Anthony McAuliffe.
Ok,you just told me something I didn't know.
BTW,he was the CG of the 101st Abn Div at Bastogne. I had a cousin who was a platoon sgt in a rifle company of the 101st all during WW-2. Actually,he started out as a private and was a platoon sgt by the time the war ended.
I had an Uncle in Easy...Tidewater Virginian...a real hoot of a character. My dad always called him a hero and treated him with a deference the he had reserved for only one other person. That person was a neighbor who had "stormed the beach at Normandy".
I had an Uncle in Easy...Tidewater Virginian...a real hoot of a character
Both of his sons enlisted in the airborne infantry during the VN war and both volunteered to go to VN. Both ended up serving with the 82nd Abn Div,though.
One was killed a few years after discharge in a car accident,and the other one took over the family construction business when his father retired. He is a multi-millionaire now,but still says if he had to do it all over again he would stay in the army because there is nothing in life he would rather do than be a platoon sgt in a airborne infantry rifle company.
He is a multi-millionaire now,but still says if he had to do it all over again he would stay in the army because there is nothing in life he would rather do than be a platoon sgt in a airborne infantry rifle company.
Funny how that is so unlike our generation. I listened to a good portion of Mom and Dad's side romanticize their time in the military...not too many ours.
Funny how that is so unlike our generation. I listened to a good portion of Mom and Dad's side romanticize their time in the military...not too many ours.
I think that is because most of our generation either didn't serve,or didn't serve in a actual combat position where you learn to value and appreciate things like honor and leadership.
I do think things are slowly changing back again now,though. Military people are now shown respect by almost everybody. It is no longer looked upon by so many as a place where losers go to avoid jail time.
Or at least most of the people who think that don't have the guts to say it out loud,anyhow.
I do think things are slowly changing back again now,though. Military people are now shown respect by almost everybody. It is no longer looked upon by so many as a place where losers go to avoid jail time.
I think that 'change' in attitude was realized years ago, beginning right after the Gulf War. Early 80's you still had the bullshit 'baby killer' mantra going around, openly.
Today, I'm always routinely greeted with kind words if I happen to be wearing a 'US Navy Veteran' ballcap, or the USS Independence ball cap. Especially by the generation thats 30 or younger.
