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Title: Hawaii official denounces 'ludicrous' birther claims
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42519951
Published: Apr 10, 2011
Author: Michael Isikoff
Post Date: 2011-04-10 13:41:06 by Skip Intro
Keywords: None
Views: 91832
Comments: 96

The Hawaiian state health official who personally reviewed Barack Obama's original birth certificate has affirmed again that the document is "real" and denounced "conspiracy theorists" in the so-called "birther" movement for continuing to spread bogus claims about the issue.

"It’s kind of ludicrous at this point," Dr. Chiyome Fukino, the former director of Hawaii's Department of Health, said in a rare telephone interview with NBC.

Fukino, sounding both exasperated and amused, spoke to a reporter in the aftermath of Donald Trump's statements on the NBC Today show last week questioning whether Obama has a legitimate birth certificate.

Trump, who says he is considering a run for president, repeated his claims on CNN's "State of the Union" Sunday, saying that "nobody has any information" about the president's birth and that "if he wasn't born in this country, he shouldn't be president of the United States."

No matter what state officials release on the issue, the "birthers" are going to question it, said Fukino. "They’re going to question the ink on which it was written or say it was fabricated," said Fukino. "The whole thing is silly." Story: The Isikoff Files

As the top Hawaiian official in charge of state health records in 2008, when the issue of Obama's birth first arose, Fukino said she thought she had put the matter to rest. Contacted by NBC, Fukino expanded on previous public statements and made two key points when asked about Trump's recent comments.

The first is that the original so-called "long form" birth certificate — described by Hawaiian officials as a "record of live birth" — absolutely exists, located in a bound volume in a file cabinet on the first floor of the state Department of Health. Fukimo said she has personally inspected it — twice. The first time was in late October 2008, during the closing days of the presidential campaign, when the communications director for the state's then Republican governor, Linda Lingle (who appointed Fukino) asked if she could make a public statement in response to claims then circulating on the Internet that Obama was actually born in Kenya.

Before she would do so, Fukino said, she wanted to inspect the files — and did so, taking with her the state official in charge of vital records. She found the original birth record, properly numbered, half typed and half handwritten, and signed by the doctor who delivered Obama, located in the files. She then put out a public statement asserting to the document's validity. She later put out another public statement in July 2009 — after reviewing the original birth record a second time.

"It is real, and no amount of saying it is not, is going to change that," Fukino said. Moreover, she added, her boss at the time, Lingle — who was backing John McCain for president — would presumably have to be in on any cover up since Fukino made her public comment at the governor's office's request. "Why would a Republican governor — who was stumping for the other guy — hold out on a big secret?" she asked.

Her second point — one she made repeatedly in the interview — is that the shorter, computer generated "certification of live birth" that was obtained by the Obama campaign in 2007 and has since been publicly released is the standard document that anybody requesting their birth certificate from the state of Hawaii would receive from the health department.

The document was distributed to the Obama campaign in 2007 after Obama, at the request of a campaign official, personally signed a Hawaii birth certificate request form downloaded on the Internet, according to a former campaign official who asked for anonymity. (Obama was "testy" when asked to sign the form but did so anyway to put the issue to rest, the former campaign official said. The White House has dismissed all questions about the president's birth as "fictional nonsense.")

The certification that the campaign received back —which shows that Obama was born in Honolulu at 7:24 p.m. on Aug. 4, 1961 — was based on the content of the original document in state files, Fukino said.

"What he got, everybody got," said Fukino. "He put out exactly what everybody gets when they ask for a birth certificate."

Hawaiian officials say that the certification is, in fact, only one piece of abundant evidence of Obama's birth in Hawaii. Joshua Wisch, a spokesman for the Hawaii attorney general's office, noted that a public index of vital records, available for inspection in a bound volume at the Health Department's Office of Health Status Monitoring, lists a male child named "Obama II, Barack Hussein" as having been born in the state.

In addition, as Factcheck.org and other media organizations have repeatedly pointed out, both of Honolulu's newspapers, the Honolulu Advertiser on Aug. 13, 1961, and the Honolulu Star Bulletin, on Aug. 14, 1961, both ran birth announcements listing Obama's birth on Aug. 4 of that year.

Even Fukino accepts that her comments are not likely to end the matter for the die-hard birthers. Trump and other skeptics have questioned why the original birth certificate has not been released.

But Wisch, the spokesman for the attorney general's office, said state law does not in fact permit the release of "vital records," including an original "record of live birth" — even to the individual whose birth it records.

"It's a Department of Health record and it can't be released to anybody," he said. Nor do state laws have any provision that authorizes such records to be photocopied, Wisch said. If Obama wanted to personally visit the state health department, he would be permitted to inspect his birth record, Wisch said.

But if he or anybody else wanted a copy of their birth records, they would be told to fill out the appropriate state form and receive back the same computer generated "certification of live birth" form that everybody else gets — which is exactly what Obama did four years ago.


Poster Comment:

Another attempt at injecting some sanity into this non-issue, not that it's going to matter.

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 90.

#4. To: Skip Intro (#0)

Secondly, if it is real, and I'm not saying it isn't, what other pertinent information does it hold?

For example, does it state what we already know, that Obama's father was not an American citizen?

When the precondition of being a natural born American citizen to become president exists, what purpose does concealing that very information serve?

We The People  posted on  2011-04-10   14:07:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: We The People (#4)

When the precondition of being a natural born American citizen to become president exists

Since he was born in Hawaii, he is.

End of discussion.

Skip Intro  posted on  2011-04-10   14:08:14 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Skip Intro (#5)

Since he was born in Hawaii, he is.

End of discussion.

You posted the thread, but don't want to discuss it?

And you're calling me irrational?

We The People  posted on  2011-04-10   14:10:02 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: We The People (#7)

Well, I could post a link to this, or I could post a link to this, but it won't matter because "rational arugments based upon ample evidence will not change the minds of irrational people."

So really, there's nothing left for me to say. I don't feel like wasting my time arguing with someone who believes the earth is flat, or is only 5000 years old, either. It's pointless.

Skip Intro  posted on  2011-04-10   14:18:28 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Skip Intro (#8)

I don't feel like wasting my time arguing with someone who believes the earth is flat, or is only 5000 years old, either.

Well, I don't believe either but something tells me that you still don't want to discuss the article/issue that you posted.

Why do you post threads on a discussion forum if you don't want to discuss them?

Care to discuss that?

We The People  posted on  2011-04-10   14:28:18 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: We The People (#9)

What rational point do you believe that there is left to discuss, WTP?

war  posted on  2011-04-10   15:35:29 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: war (#28)

What rational point do you believe that there is left to discuss, WTP?

There are many. The birth certificate has never been shown. A COLB is not a BC.

Obama's father was not and is not an American citizen.

Obama cannot be a natural born American citizen and is not eligible to hold the office of POTUS.

We The People  posted on  2011-04-10   15:51:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: We The People (#32)

There are many. The birth certificate has never been shown. A COLB is not a BC.

Did you read the article? Given that I asked for a rational point, that one flunked.

Obama's father was not and is not an American citizen.

Well...he's dead so "was" is all we need.

That said, that IS general knowledge, so what?

Obama cannot be a natural born American citizen and is not eligible to hold the office of POTUS.

He was born in Hawaii and has lived here most of his life. He's as natural born as I am.

war  posted on  2011-04-10   16:16:18 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: war (#44)

He was born in Hawaii and has lived here most of his life. He's as natural born as I am.

Simply making a statement over and over does not make it true.

There are requirements to being a natural born citizen that you seem to ignore.

We The People  posted on  2011-04-10   16:18:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: We The People (#47)

There are requirements to being a natural born citizen that you seem to ignore.

Chuckles...enlighten me and you'd better cite US code and or case law.

war  posted on  2011-04-10   16:20:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: war (#48)

Chuckles...enlighten me and you'd better cite US code and or case law.

Chuckles...I have enlightened you, all up and down this thread. I've cited the US Constitution, (1866 Sec. 1992 of US Revised), the 14th Amendment and a Senate resolution.

I've made my argument very clearly.

We The People  posted on  2011-04-10   16:24:28 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: We The People (#50)

I have enlightened you, all up and down this thread. I've cited the US Constitution, (1866 Sec. 1992 of US Revised), the 14th Amendment and a Senate resolution.

No you haven't. There are several instances of case law, pre 14A, in which the court states explicitly that the word "citizen" is undefined.

Post 14A, every instance of case law is that a child born on the soil of the US is a natural born citizen.

Your argument is that there is a third class of "citizen" who is not natural born and not naturalized but simply "citizen". THAT is the statement that you need to support.

war  posted on  2011-04-10   16:36:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: war (#53)

Post 14A, every instance of case law is that a child born on the soil of the US is a natural born citizen.

I don't think that's correct at all. I believe the word you were looking for is 'citizen' not natural born citizen.

Your argument is that there is a third class of "citizen" who is not natural born and not naturalized but simply "citizen". THAT is the statement that you need to support.

I'm sorry, but you don't get to define the parameters of my argument or twist my argument into another argument.

We The People  posted on  2011-04-10   16:42:47 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: We The People (#55)

I'm sorry, but you don't get to define the parameters of my argument or twist my argument into another argument.

And yet in your next post you validate my observation.

war  posted on  2011-04-10   16:47:39 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: war (#60)

I'm sorry, but you don't get to define the parameters of my argument or twist my argument into another argument.

And yet in your next post you validate my observation.

The US Constitution clearly states "natural born citizen".

You contend that it means nothing, that any citizen is a natural born citizen regardless of circumstances. I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous. If it meant what you think it does, it would simply say 'citizen'.

There IS a distinction between natural born and citizen and I've explained it to you in clear and concise language.

We The People  posted on  2011-04-10   16:52:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: We The People (#62)

You contend that it means nothing, that any citizen is a natural born citizen regardless of circumstances.

I have "contend"ed that where exactly?

A naturalized citizen could not become POTUS. Other than that, anyone who is born here - not subject to the exceptions noted above - is most certainly a natural born citizen. It's BIRTH not parentage.

war  posted on  2011-04-10   17:26:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: war (#69)

It's BIRTH not parentage.

I "contend" that it's both.

But let's say, just for arguments sake, that you are correct. If it is birth and not parentage, why will Obama not release his birth certificate?

What purpose would it serve to keep it concealed?

Would you, if you were president and there were questions concerning your eligibility, release your BC, or would you keep it concealed?

We The People  posted on  2011-04-10   21:00:30 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: We The People (#74)

But let's say, just for arguments sake, that you are correct. If it is birth and not parentage, why will Obama not release his birth certificate?

What question of parentage do you think his long form bc would reveal that isn't known now?

Would you, if you were president and there were questions concerning your eligibility, release your BC, or would you keep it concealed?

Nope. Having been there and done that by releasing my CoLB only to have the doubters raise the bar, why would I figure the long form would settle the issue.

lucysmom  posted on  2011-04-11   2:42:13 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: lucysmom (#78)

What question of parentage do you think his long form bc would reveal that isn't known now?

I don't know. I will probably never know because he'll probably never release it. That doesn't bother you at all?

Nope. Having been there and done that by releasing my CoLB only to have the doubters raise the bar, why would I figure the long form would settle the issue.

You have been elected president of the US and also refused to release your BC? Small world.

A COLB is not a BC. There is a myriad of info on a BC that is not on a COLB.

We The People  posted on  2011-04-11   6:17:34 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: We The People (#79)

A COLB is not a BC. There is a myriad of info on a BC that is not on a COLB.

Yep. Please tell me how knowing if Obama were born head first or feet first or if his mother had an episiotomy speaks to his eligibility?

lucysmom  posted on  2011-04-11   10:43:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: lucysmom. We The People (#84)

Yep. Please tell me how knowing if Obama were born head first or feet first or if his mother had an episiotomy speaks to his eligibility?

They are under the illusion that all past president's pedigrees lived up to their "standards". Running for pres is becoming like a dog show, no mutts need apply. Pretty soon they will be demanding a pedigree with all lines going back to the Mayflower.

Rek  posted on  2011-04-11   11:46:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: Rek (#87)

Pretty soon they will be demanding a pedigree with all lines going back to the Mayflower.

Too bad a spotless pedigree doesn't guarantee anything except lineage.

lucysmom  posted on  2011-04-11   12:31:16 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: lucysmom (#89)

Too bad a spotless pedigree doesn't guarantee anything except lineage.

And increased tendencies toward genetic diseases cause by all that inbreeding.

Rek  posted on  2011-04-11   12:34:09 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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