Historical
See other Historical Articles
Title: Hawaii official denounces 'ludicrous' birther claims
Source:
[None]
URL Source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42519951
Published: Apr 10, 2011
Author: Michael Isikoff
Post Date: 2011-04-10 13:41:06 by Skip Intro
Keywords: None
Views: 85557
Comments: 96
The Hawaiian state health official who personally reviewed Barack Obama's original birth certificate has affirmed again that the document is "real" and denounced "conspiracy theorists" in the so-called "birther" movement for continuing to spread bogus claims about the issue. "It’s kind of ludicrous at this point," Dr. Chiyome Fukino, the former director of Hawaii's Department of Health, said in a rare telephone interview with NBC. Fukino, sounding both exasperated and amused, spoke to a reporter in the aftermath of Donald Trump's statements on the NBC Today show last week questioning whether Obama has a legitimate birth certificate. Trump, who says he is considering a run for president, repeated his claims on CNN's "State of the Union" Sunday, saying that "nobody has any information" about the president's birth and that "if he wasn't born in this country, he shouldn't be president of the United States." No matter what state officials release on the issue, the "birthers" are going to question it, said Fukino. "They’re going to question the ink on which it was written or say it was fabricated," said Fukino. "The whole thing is silly." Story: The Isikoff Files As the top Hawaiian official in charge of state health records in 2008, when the issue of Obama's birth first arose, Fukino said she thought she had put the matter to rest. Contacted by NBC, Fukino expanded on previous public statements and made two key points when asked about Trump's recent comments. The first is that the original so-called "long form" birth certificate — described by Hawaiian officials as a "record of live birth" — absolutely exists, located in a bound volume in a file cabinet on the first floor of the state Department of Health. Fukimo said she has personally inspected it — twice. The first time was in late October 2008, during the closing days of the presidential campaign, when the communications director for the state's then Republican governor, Linda Lingle (who appointed Fukino) asked if she could make a public statement in response to claims then circulating on the Internet that Obama was actually born in Kenya. Before she would do so, Fukino said, she wanted to inspect the files — and did so, taking with her the state official in charge of vital records. She found the original birth record, properly numbered, half typed and half handwritten, and signed by the doctor who delivered Obama, located in the files. She then put out a public statement asserting to the document's validity. She later put out another public statement in July 2009 — after reviewing the original birth record a second time. "It is real, and no amount of saying it is not, is going to change that," Fukino said. Moreover, she added, her boss at the time, Lingle — who was backing John McCain for president — would presumably have to be in on any cover up since Fukino made her public comment at the governor's office's request. "Why would a Republican governor — who was stumping for the other guy — hold out on a big secret?" she asked. Her second point — one she made repeatedly in the interview — is that the shorter, computer generated "certification of live birth" that was obtained by the Obama campaign in 2007 and has since been publicly released is the standard document that anybody requesting their birth certificate from the state of Hawaii would receive from the health department. The document was distributed to the Obama campaign in 2007 after Obama, at the request of a campaign official, personally signed a Hawaii birth certificate request form downloaded on the Internet, according to a former campaign official who asked for anonymity. (Obama was "testy" when asked to sign the form but did so anyway to put the issue to rest, the former campaign official said. The White House has dismissed all questions about the president's birth as "fictional nonsense.") The certification that the campaign received back —which shows that Obama was born in Honolulu at 7:24 p.m. on Aug. 4, 1961 — was based on the content of the original document in state files, Fukino said. "What he got, everybody got," said Fukino. "He put out exactly what everybody gets when they ask for a birth certificate." Hawaiian officials say that the certification is, in fact, only one piece of abundant evidence of Obama's birth in Hawaii. Joshua Wisch, a spokesman for the Hawaii attorney general's office, noted that a public index of vital records, available for inspection in a bound volume at the Health Department's Office of Health Status Monitoring, lists a male child named "Obama II, Barack Hussein" as having been born in the state. In addition, as Factcheck.org and other media organizations have repeatedly pointed out, both of Honolulu's newspapers, the Honolulu Advertiser on Aug. 13, 1961, and the Honolulu Star Bulletin, on Aug. 14, 1961, both ran birth announcements listing Obama's birth on Aug. 4 of that year. Even Fukino accepts that her comments are not likely to end the matter for the die-hard birthers. Trump and other skeptics have questioned why the original birth certificate has not been released. But Wisch, the spokesman for the attorney general's office, said state law does not in fact permit the release of "vital records," including an original "record of live birth" — even to the individual whose birth it records. "It's a Department of Health record and it can't be released to anybody," he said. Nor do state laws have any provision that authorizes such records to be photocopied, Wisch said. If Obama wanted to personally visit the state health department, he would be permitted to inspect his birth record, Wisch said. But if he or anybody else wanted a copy of their birth records, they would be told to fill out the appropriate state form and receive back the same computer generated "certification of live birth" form that everybody else gets — which is exactly what Obama did four years ago.
Poster Comment: Another attempt at injecting some sanity into this non-issue, not that it's going to matter.
Post Comment Private Reply Ignore Thread
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest
Comments (1-29) not displayed.
.
.
.
#30. To: Skip Intro, Murron (#15)
Skippy, the gullible dupe who was deceived and suckered is now lecturing others on being rational? ROTFLOLAYDA!!!!!!
Sure looks like it to me. You see no distinction between the word 'citizen' and the term 'natural born citizen? Got any real evidence that says otherwise? No, I don't. Since, as I said, the issue has never been clarified by law or SCOTUS determinations. But what is clear in my mind, is that a natural born citizen is a citizen by no 'act of laws' or naturalization, and also that a child born on US soil, who is the child of US citizens, is a natural born citizen. And apparently the Senate agrees with me, because if you'll remember, the argument concerning McCain's natural born status, according to Leahy, was that his parents were both American citizens at the time of his birth and he was born in an American 'zone' or some such. And please don't take that as an endorsement of McCain or a determination that I believe he is a natural born citizen.
There are many. The birth certificate has never been shown. A COLB is not a BC. Obama's father was not and is not an American citizen. Obama cannot be a natural born American citizen and is not eligible to hold the office of POTUS.
The place of his birth doesn't matter as much as the fact that his father wasn't an American citizen at the time of his birth.
There are only two types of citizens as contemplated by US law...NATURAL BORN and NATURALIZED.
America...My Kind Of Place...
Sure it has.
America...My Kind Of Place...
Post it.
And Barry cannot provide proof for either contingency. How can a man live for fifty years and leave almost virtually no paper trail?
Actually, I feel sorry for you, yu-klown. Growing up with Sally as a mother would probably turn anyone queer.
United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898) And the plain language of the 14th amendment states that bufurcation.
America...My Kind Of Place...
After the US Constitution was written, further clarifications were made... "All persons born in the United States and not subject to any foreign power are declared to be citizens of the United States." (1866 Sec. 1992 of US Revised) Two months after the statute was enacted, on June 16th, 1866, the 14th A was proposed and declared ratified on July 28th, 1868. The first clause of the first section reads, "All persons born or naturalized in the US and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State in which they reside." In 1866, Representative Bingham of Ohio stated, "Every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty, is in the language of our Constitution itself, a natural born citizen." Not everyone who is a US born citizen, is a natural born citizen.
I asked for a rational point, Mudflap. You were immediately disqualified.
America...My Kind Of Place...
"United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898), was a United States Supreme Court decision that set an important legal precedent about the role of jus soli (birth in the United States) as a factor in determining a person's claim to United States citizenship." US v Wong Kim Ark has nothing to do with natural born status, that I am aware of.
Correct. The exception are those in foreign service as attache's, diplomats, ambassadors etc. Since their function is unique in that they are here to represent a foreign power and, as such, conduct their business under a blanket of immunity to US law, their issue would thus be so immunized as well.
America...My Kind Of Place...
Then you miss the entire point of the case. By virtue of his birth, Kim was a citizen. BORN is the word, not "IN LABOR"...not "PREGNANT" but BORN....
America...My Kind Of Place...
Did you read the article? Given that I asked for a rational point, that one flunked. Obama's father was not and is not an American citizen. Well...he's dead so "was" is all we need. That said, that IS general knowledge, so what? Obama cannot be a natural born American citizen and is not eligible to hold the office of POTUS. He was born in Hawaii and has lived here most of his life. He's as natural born as I am.
America...My Kind Of Place...
I think not. Can you explain the "S. Res. 511 [110th]: A resolution recognizing that John Sidney McCain, III, is a natural born citizen" and its language stating... "Whereas John Sidney McCain, III, was born to American citizens on an American military base in the Panama Canal Zone in 1936: Now, therefore, be it Resolved, That John Sidney McCain, III, is a `natural born Citizen' under Article II, Section 1, of the Constitution of the United States. http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=sr110-511
That was a Sense of the Senate resolution and has no force of law.
America...My Kind Of Place...
Simply making a statement over and over does not make it true. There are requirements to being a natural born citizen that you seem to ignore.
Chuckles...enlighten me and you'd better cite US code and or case law.
America...My Kind Of Place...
So it is the 'Sense of the Senate' that a natural born citizen be born of citizen parents.
Chuckles...I have enlightened you, all up and down this thread. I've cited the US Constitution, (1866 Sec. 1992 of US Revised), the 14th Amendment and a Senate resolution. I've made my argument very clearly.
If McCain was born outside the US, yet still was confirmed by the Senate as a 'natural born citizen', what other requirement did they base their finding on?
The US Senate issued the resolution as a means of stating its belief that the Foreign posting of a US citizen...specifically in the US military and on a US military base, hich was, de jure, US soil...did not negate the natural born status of any child notwithstanding the plain language of the 14th amendment. But, again, this resolution does not have the force of law.
America...My Kind Of Place...
No you haven't. There are several instances of case law, pre 14A, in which the court states explicitly that the word "citizen" is undefined. Post 14A, every instance of case law is that a child born on the soil of the US is a natural born citizen. Your argument is that there is a third class of "citizen" who is not natural born and not naturalized but simply "citizen". THAT is the statement that you need to support.
America...My Kind Of Place...
But, again, this resolution does not have the force of law. LOL! So the fact that the Resolution plainly states, "was born to American citizens" means nothing. And the fact that this document allowed a man to be placed on presidential ballots doesn't mean it has the force of law. OK, I get it. (eyes rolling)
I don't think that's correct at all. I believe the word you were looking for is 'citizen' not natural born citizen. Your argument is that there is a third class of "citizen" who is not natural born and not naturalized but simply "citizen". THAT is the statement that you need to support. I'm sorry, but you don't get to define the parameters of my argument or twist my argument into another argument.
A citizen can be born here or naturalized. A natural born citizen is born of citizen parents on US soil.
That was not the issue. The issue was whether or not the Framers meant to exclude the children of foreign posted US military personnel as "natural born". You obviously have not read the resolution. which states: Whereas the term ‘‘natural born Citizen’’, as that term appears in Article II, Section 1, is not defined in the Constitution of the United States; Whereas there is no evidence of the intention of the Framers or any Congress to limit the constitutional rights of children born to Americans serving in the military nor to prevent those children from serving as their country’s President; Whereas such limitations would be inconsistent with the purpose and intent of the ‘‘natural born Citizen’’ clause of the Constitution of the United States, as evidenced by the First Congress’s own statute defining the term ‘‘natural born Citizen’’; Whereas the well-being of all citizens of the United States is preserved and enhanced by the men and women who are assigned to serve our country outside of our national borders; Whereas previous presidential candidates were born outside of the United States of America and were understood to be eligible to be President;
America...My Kind Of Place...
Challenge.
America...My Kind Of Place...
Obama cannot be a natural born American citizen and is not eligible to hold the office of POTUS. What do you make of this? I apologize for it being so large, but it's hard enough to read as it is. Give up? Look at lines 72-75. It shows the Agnew family, including little Spiro. Remember him? VP under Nixon. Well, if you look really close under the citizenship block, you'll see that both his mom and dad have Al written in the box. That means that they're aliens, i.e. non-citizens. Yet Spiro ran for and was elected Vice President. According to you, he was ineligible for such a position, yet to this day I've never heard a single person say he wasn't qualified for it as a natural born citizen. Your turn. I'll check back in later to see how things are going. As an aside, I'd just like to say how pleasant it is that we can disagree about this without going yukon on each other. What a refreshing change from the threads he does post on.
And yet in your next post you validate my observation.
America...My Kind Of Place...
WTP is a good guy. He's the kind of poster you want on a site.
America...My Kind Of Place...
And yet in your next post you validate my observation. The US Constitution clearly states "natural born citizen". You contend that it means nothing, that any citizen is a natural born citizen regardless of circumstances. I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous. If it meant what you think it does, it would simply say 'citizen'. There IS a distinction between natural born and citizen and I've explained it to you in clear and concise language.
Thank you, both of you.
I had never seen that evidence before and wasn't even aware of it or the argument that Agnew wasn't eligible. Thanks for showing it. Let me be first...if the information contained in that graphic is true and correct, then Agnew wasn't eligible.
Challenge.
I agree.
I'm going out myself for awhile. If I don't check back in this evening, I will tomorrow evening.
Enjoy the rest of the week end!
Actually, I feel sorry for you, yu-klown. Growing up with Sally as a mother would probably turn anyone queer.
I have "contend"ed that where exactly? A naturalized citizen could not become POTUS. Other than that, anyone who is born here - not subject to the exceptions noted above - is most certainly a natural born citizen. It's BIRTH not parentage.
America...My Kind Of Place...
That's been Denoforia's argument, the courts disagree.
Since January 3, 2011, Republicans have controlled the power of the purse.
Comments (71 - 96) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestRational arugments based upon ample evidence will not change the minds of irrational people.
#31. To: Skip Intro (#25)
Does that mean the children of illegal aliens are natural born American citizens?
#32. To: war (#28)
What rational point do you believe that there is left to discuss, WTP?
#33. To: go65 (#29)
I haven't seen any evidence to back up the arguments that he wasn't born in Hawaii.
#34. To: We The People (#31)
#35. To: We The People (#31)
Since, as I said, the issue has never been clarified by law or SCOTUS determinations
#36. To: war (#35)
#37. To: war (#34)
#38. To: We The People (#36)
#39. To: war (#34)
There are only two types of citizens as contemplated by US law...NATURAL BORN and NATURALIZED.
#40. To: Rudgear (#37)
#41. To: war (#38)
#42. To: We The People (#39)
Not everyone who is a US born citizen, is a natural born citizen.
#43. To: We The People (#41)
US v Wong Kim Ark has nothing to do with natural born status, that I am aware of.
#44. To: We The People (#32)
There are many. The birth certificate has never been shown. A COLB is not a BC.
#45. To: war (#43)
Then you miss the entire point of the case.
#46. To: We The People (#45)
#47. To: war (#44)
He was born in Hawaii and has lived here most of his life. He's as natural born as I am.
#48. To: We The People (#47)
There are requirements to being a natural born citizen that you seem to ignore.
#49. To: war (#46)
That was a Sense of the Senate resolution and has no force of law.
#50. To: war (#48)
Chuckles...enlighten me and you'd better cite US code and or case law.
#51. To: war (#48)
#52. To: We The People (#51)
If McCain was born outside the US, yet still was confirmed by the Senate as a 'natural born citizen', what other requirement did they base their finding on?
#53. To: We The People (#50)
I have enlightened you, all up and down this thread. I've cited the US Constitution, (1866 Sec. 1992 of US Revised), the 14th Amendment and a Senate resolution.
#54. To: war (#52)
The US Senate issued the resolution as a means of stating its belief that the Foreign posting of a US citizen...specifically in the US military and on a US military base, hich was, de jure, US soil...did not negate the natural born status of any child notwithstanding the plain language of the 14th amendment.
#55. To: war (#53)
Post 14A, every instance of case law is that a child born on the soil of the US is a natural born citizen.
#56. To: war (#53)
Your argument is that there is a third class of "citizen" who is not natural born and not naturalized but simply "citizen". THAT is the statement that you need to support.
#57. To: We The People (#54)
So the fact that the Resolution plainly states, "was born to American citizens" means nothing.
#58. To: We The People (#56)
A natural born citizen is born of citizen parents on US soil.
#59. To: We The People (#32)
Obama's father was not and is not an American citizen.
#60. To: We The People (#55)
I'm sorry, but you don't get to define the parameters of my argument or twist my argument into another argument.
#61. To: Skip Intro (#59)
#62. To: war (#60)
I'm sorry, but you don't get to define the parameters of my argument or twist my argument into another argument.
#63. To: war, Skip Intro (#61)
WTP is a good guy. He's the kind of poster you want on a site.
#64. To: Skip Intro (#59)
(Edited)
yet to this day I've never heard a single person say he wasn't qualified for it as a natural born citizen
#65. To: war (#58)
A natural born citizen is born of citizen parents on US soil.
#66. To: Skip Intro (#59)
As an aside, I'd just like to say how pleasant it is that we can disagree about this without going yukon on each other.
#67. To: All (#66)
#68. To: We The People (#67)
#69. To: We The People (#62)
You contend that it means nothing, that any citizen is a natural born citizen regardless of circumstances.
#70. To: We The People (#33)
The place of his birth doesn't matter as much as the fact that his father wasn't an American citizen at the time of his birth.
.
.
.
[Home] [Headlines] [Latest Articles] [Latest Comments] [Post] [Mail] [Sign-in] [Setup] [Help] [Register]