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Corrupt Government
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Title: Why we can't tax ourselves out of the deficit problem
Source: American Thinker
URL Source: http://.
Published: Apr 5, 2011
Author: Steve McCann
Post Date: 2011-04-05 17:56:18 by CZ82
Keywords: None
Views: 93969
Comments: 113

Why we can't tax ourselves out of the deficit problem

Steve McCann

Yesterday I was in the belly of the beast: Washington D.C. At a lunch meeting, which included a number of liberal Democrats, the inevitable subject of the runaway spending and debt came up, particularly in light of Paul Ryan issuing a budget which would go a long way toward curing our financial ills. While I and others extolled the positive economic effects of dramatically reducing government spending, those on the other side refused to come off the mantra of all we have to do is raise taxes on the rich and that will solve nearly all our problems.

Admittedly, all of those who were in that camp were, you guessed it, lifelong government bureaucrats. I forcefully made the case that raising taxes on the rich would not generate anywhere near the revenue they thought, or even make a dent in the deficit, and would in fact end up reducing revenue and killing job creation. The argument fell on deaf ears. So, having done the research on the issue in the past based on numbers from their fellow bureaucrats in the IRS, I told them I would forward the details.

I am doing so through the American Thinker in a devious attempt to not only get their attention but to ruin their day by forcing them to see and hopefully read the articles and blog entries.

The data is contained on the following IRS site: Section: Tax Generated; subsection; Tax rate and size of Adjusted Gross Income (2008): Table 3.5 (The table is here)

The tax year of 2008 was the last to date that the IRS has done this kind of analysis. In 2008 the highest marginal tax rate of 35% applied to all AGI above $357,700.00. In that year the total amount of AGI subject to the highest rate was $622.8 Billion. The government collected in taxes $218.0 Billion (35%).

In 2011 the annual budget deficit will be nearly $1,665.0 Billion and in 2012: $1,100.0 Billion. If the Liberal Democrats in league with the Socialists, the Unions and the Communists, succeed in raising the highest marginal rate, how much more would Washington D.C. receive, assuming no change in behavior and a general eagerness to pay more?

If the highest rate of 35% were raised by a factor of 20% to 42%, then the additional tax revenue would be $43.5 Billion, not much of a dent in $1,665.0 Billion. So, let's raise the rate by a factor of 50% to 52.5%; the additional revenue would be $108.9 Billion. Still nowhere near enough, so let's just tax it at a rate of 100%, bringing in an additional $404.8 Billion. Unfortunately the country is still $1,260.0 Billion in the hole for the year.

Obviously by confiscating at 100% of all the income of the so-called rich above a predetermined level, there would never again be an incentive to earn above the highest tax rate threshold. So where will the Left have to turn next: where the money is, the middle class.

The Left knows the gullible among us (other Lefties) easily fall for centuries-old class warfare rhetoric that demonizes the wealthy, yet they persist in doing the unconscionable, as it keeps them in power despite the fact that it enflames passions and in some cases, violence.

What the Democrats are doing is entirely based on a lie. The United States cannot tax its way out of the present financial crisis, and from a cursory examination of Paul Ryan's proposal, his is the best plan yet presented and needs to be defended and promoted.

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#14. To: A K A Stone (#13)

They need to tax people who don't pay any taxes.

You want to tax corporations? They're people too, according to the Supreme Court.

Won't they just pass those taxes along to us?

Of course, if they do that, then everybody would be paying taxes, which negates your argument of taxing people who don't pay taxes, since everyone pays the taxes the corporations don't.

And I agree; welfare should be taxed. So should tax cuts. It makes just as much sense.

Skip Intro  posted on  2011-04-05   20:59:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: war (#11)

Why don't you ask the nigger?

Fine.

How do you propose we pay for three simultaneous wars?

Anybody with any sense knows that the wars are not the main fiscal concern in this Country.

But if you think it is, you should probably petition Mandingo Obambo to do something about it.

Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??

no gnu taxes  posted on  2011-04-05   20:59:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: no gnu taxes (#15)

C'mon nigger,..answer my question...

Apparently not.
Inarticulate Insights,
By Boofer

war  posted on  2011-04-05   21:30:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: war (#8)

It HAS to be paid. And the only way it will be paid is with revenues.

So if the unemployment rate was only say 3-4%, wouldn't that mean more revenues and less spending all rolled up into one........

"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning

CZ82  posted on  2011-04-05   21:46:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: CZ82 (#17)

You cut government spending in half and you're going to have higher unemployment not lower.

Apparently not.
Inarticulate Insights,
By Boofer

war  posted on  2011-04-05   22:16:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: war (#16)

C'mon nigger,..answer my question...

Looks like the nigger has left the building.

Skip Intro  posted on  2011-04-05   22:18:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Skip Intro (#14)

You want to tax corporations? They're people too, according to the Supreme Court.

Won't they just pass those taxes along to us?

Of course, if they do that, then everybody would be paying taxes, which negates your argument of taxing people who don't pay taxes, since everyone pays the taxes the corporations don't.

And I agree; welfare should be taxed. So should tax cuts. It makes just as much sense.

It would be an interesting idea. To repeal Nafta, Gatt and the UN. Then only tax corporations and have tariffs on foreign goods.

A K A Stone  posted on  2011-04-05   22:18:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: A K A Stone (#20)

To repeal Nafta, Gatt and the UN.

Got any names of Republicans who are in favor of that?

Skip Intro  posted on  2011-04-05   22:20:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Skip Intro (#21)

Rand Paul 2012

A K A Stone  posted on  2011-04-05   22:21:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: A K A Stone (#22)

Rand Paul 2012

If he's the only one he doesn't have a prayer.

Skip Intro  posted on  2011-04-05   22:22:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Skip Intro (#19)

Quick...hand me the Popeye's coupon...

Apparently not.
Inarticulate Insights,
By Boofer

war  posted on  2011-04-05   22:23:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Skip Intro (#23)

Hilarious that these Bots bitch about Obama's alleged lack of experience when all this guy has been doing for most of his life is fitting people for contact and corrective lenses.

Apparently not.
Inarticulate Insights,
By Boofer

war  posted on  2011-04-05   22:25:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: no gnu taxes (#9)

Why don't you ask the nigger? He's the one authorizing this at this point.

Congress authorizes the money for the wars.

You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand

lucysmom  posted on  2011-04-06   8:51:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Skip Intro (#7)

I'm curious. How do you propose we pay for three simultaneous wars?

Well, if it were my decision, I would end them, bring the troops home.

We The People  posted on  2011-04-06   13:42:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: We The People (#27)

Well, if it were my decision, I would end them, bring the troops home.

Well, it's not your decision, so someone has to pay for them. How?

Skip Intro  posted on  2011-04-06   13:44:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: war (#8)

It HAS to be paid. And the only way it will be paid is with revenues.

Then cut taxes and regulations on businesses and manufacturing. Stop holding them back and allow them to produce.

There is no way out of this mess that isn't going to be painful. It's the price we pay for letting it get this far.

We The People  posted on  2011-04-06   13:44:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Skip Intro (#28)

Well, it's not your decision, so someone has to pay for them. How?

First, we MUST end them. If you're bleeding, cleaning the wound will not save your life. You have to stop the bleeding.

Then, just as above, take the shackles off of our economy and allow businesses to produce. Stop printing new money, cut taxes and drastically CUT spending.

Surely you can agree that our government should live within its means, like you and I have to do?

We The People  posted on  2011-04-06   13:56:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: We The People (#30)

First, we MUST end them. If you're bleeding, cleaning the wound will not save your life. You have to stop the bleeding.

Well, that's what Obama said he'd do, and we all know how well that worked out. From what I see, the Republican candidates not only want to keep the wars we've got, they want to start more.

So, I don't see them ending any time soon.

Skip Intro  posted on  2011-04-06   14:00:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: war (#25)

Hilarious that these Bots bitch about Obama's alleged lack of experience when all this guy has been doing for most of his life is fitting people for contact and corrective lenses.

Do you even know the difference between an ophthalmologist and an optometrist?

Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??

no gnu taxes  posted on  2011-04-06   14:04:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: We The People (#30)

Then, just as above, take the shackles off of our economy and allow businesses to produce. Stop printing new money, cut taxes and drastically CUT spending.

What shackles? Schackles like clean air and water regs? Child labor laws and the minimum wage?

ANY money that is borrowed is "printing" money. IN point of fact, one reason for the creation of the Federal Reserve was so that "common folk" COULD borrow money.

The middle class in this nation exists partly because of some of those "shackles".

I'm not lumping you in this but I am always so struck ny the iropny of the GOP...they romaticize the American Family and "middle class values" while doing everything in their power, once attained, to destroy them.

Progressives created the middle class and they fought conservatives every step of the way while doing so.

Apparently not.
Inarticulate Insights,
By Boofer

war  posted on  2011-04-06   14:06:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: no gnu taxes (#32)

Yes, nigger, I do.

Better one?

Better two?

Clearer one?

Clearer two?

versus

Here...let me clean those for you...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Of the above, who is more qualified to be POTUS.

The correct answer, not that I'd expect a nigger like you to understand, is "neither".

Apparently not.
Inarticulate Insights,
By Boofer

war  posted on  2011-04-06   14:08:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: war (#33)

What shackles? Schackles like clean air and water regs? Child labor laws and the minimum wage?

Yes, those shackles, and many more.

ANY money that is borrowed is "printing" money.

Then stop borrowing and spending. Like I said, there IS NO EASY WAY OUT. There is no magic wand and no magician can pull us out of this debt. We have to do it and we have to do what it takes to get it done. If we don't what's our alternative? We simply can't tax our way out of this debt.

Progressives created the middle class and they fought conservatives every step of the way while doing so.

:o|

We The People  posted on  2011-04-06   14:11:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: war (#34)

Better one?

Better two?

Clearer one?

Clearer two?

versus

Here...let me clean those for you...

You obviously don't.

One is a medical doctor. One is not.

Paul's specialty was performing cataract and glaucoma surgeries; not that I am any big fan of his anyway.

Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??

no gnu taxes  posted on  2011-04-06   14:11:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: no gnu taxes (#36)

Whatever, (deleted you f**king moron)

Apparently not.
Inarticulate Insights,
By Boofer

war  posted on  2011-04-06   14:12:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: war (#33)

I'm not lumping you in this but I am always so struck ny the iropny of the GOP...they romaticize the American Family and "middle class values" while doing everything in their power, once attained, to destroy them.

That's why I'm not GOP. But it's not just the GOP. I'm always struck by the irony of you who promote ONE party over the other, when BOTH parties are to blame. I KNOW you're more intelligent than that.

The Democrat party is absolutely as much to blame as the Pubs. Congress is made up of both, and it's taken both to get us here.

Crazy deficit spending, free trade agreements, endless war, the list goes on and on...all fault lies squarely on the shoulders of 536 people, made up of D's and R's.

Hang them all. THEN we'll figure out how to recover.

We The People  posted on  2011-04-06   14:17:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: We The People (#38)

Crazy deficit spending, free trade agreements, endless war, the list goes on and on...all fault lies squarely on the shoulders of 536 people, made up of D's and R's.

I believe that the GOP has been the most destructive to his nation's national Security and fiscal and economics health.

I stated back in 2008, that of all the candidates running, only Hillary Clinton had the balls to do what needed to be done to get this house in order. I still believe that.

The GITMO mess wouldn't have happened...we'd be out of Iraq and we'd have only a merc/special forces presence in Afghanistan.

Fiscally, taxes would have been properly restored to the levels of the 1990's when revenue growth was the most optimal in post WWII history [inflation adjusted].

You can't elect idealogues or people who are just along for the ride...it's why Obama, unless he finds a different stride, will not succeed. It's whay Boy Blunder was an abject failure.

Apparently not.
Inarticulate Insights,
By Boofer

war  posted on  2011-04-06   14:25:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: war (#39)

I believe that the GOP has been the most destructive to his nation's national Security and fiscal and economics health.

I'm surprised to read that.

We The People  posted on  2011-04-06   14:30:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: We The People (#35) (Edited)

..We simply can't tax our way out of this debt.

Not advocating that we do.

But cutting alone isn't going to do it and some tax rates are too low.

Apparently not.
Inarticulate Insights,
By Boofer

war  posted on  2011-04-06   14:41:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: We The People (#40) (Edited)

Think about it...who made using the military in the mideast not only a optipn but a reality?

More debt has been amassed under GOP POTUSes...the most fiscally irresponsible era of my lifetime was most of the 8 years under Boy Blunder...

This was in Boy Blunder's first budget message...

It will retire nearly $1 trillion in debt over the next four years. This will be the largest debt reduction ever achieved by any nation at any time. It achieves the maximum amount of debt reduction possible without payment of wasteful premiums. It will reduce the indebtedness of the United States, relative to our national income, to the lowest level since early in the 20th Century and to the lowest level of any of the largest industrial economies.

Apparently not.
Inarticulate Insights,
By Boofer

war  posted on  2011-04-06   14:44:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: war (#41)

.We simply can't tax our way out of this debt.

Not advocating that we do.

But cutting alone isn't going to do it and some tax rates are too low.

If we could drastically cut spending, and I do mean drastically, I wouldn't oppose some temporary tax increases. Though I do not feel that I should have to pay more to get out of a mess that I didn't create.

We The People  posted on  2011-04-06   14:54:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: war (#42) (Edited)

Think about it...who made using the military in the mideast not only a optipn but a reality?

Congress. They could have said no and would have been absolutely within their scope of power. Not to say Bush and his administration don't hold major fault too.

We The People  posted on  2011-04-06   14:56:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: We The People, war (#38)

I'm always struck by the irony of you who promote ONE party over the other, when BOTH parties are to blame. I KNOW you're more intelligent than that.

Your observation is what strikes most of us who "know" war - he is indeed one of the dumbest "intelligent" posters out there. He's got blind spot the size of Michele 0bama's azz.

Like all good little leftists and limousine liberals, he refuses to blame 0bama, Pelosi, Reid, and the rest of the Democrats for anything. It's they who are creating most of the damage to the country with their Commie/Statist agenda, lunacy, and fedgov-on-crack fascism.

Liberator  posted on  2011-04-06   15:11:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: Liberator (#45)

Like all good little leftists and limousine liberals, he refuses to blame 0bama, Pelosi, Reid, and the rest of the Democrats for anything.

What do you want me to blame them for, Libby?

Apparently not.
Inarticulate Insights,
By Boofer

war  posted on  2011-04-06   15:12:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: war (#46) (Edited)

What do you want me to blame them for

"Crazy deficit spending, free trade agreements, endless war, the list goes on and on......"

libertysflame.com/cgi-bin...?ArtNum=19323&Disp=38#C38

We The People  posted on  2011-04-06   15:16:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: war (#42)

More debt has been amassed under GOP POTUSes...the most fiscally irresponsible era of my lifetime was most of the 8 years under Boy Blunder...

Most of the damage and cratering has been facilitated since 2007 when the Pelosi-Reid Dem Congress took over the purse-strings. Do the math, Pythagoras.

As to Bush, his deficit was created largely by a war that he created, BUT was also backed by most Dems. Dubya also caved to a socialist Dem-style agenda of domestic issues.

Why don't you ever blame 0bama or the Dems, again? tick-tick-tick....

Liberator  posted on  2011-04-06   15:17:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: Liberator (#48)

Most of the damage and cratering has been facilitated since 2007

Bullshit.

Two main events courtesy of a GOP controlled Congress and WH...the tax cuts and the HUD decision to allow banks to increase sub-prime lending caused the damage. Those occurred several years before Reid/Pelosi. The mortgage market had already begun to implode in 2006 and banks were trying to hide the bleeding.

Revenue growth was anemic in that decade. The Dems forced Boy Blunder to put more of his war spending ON budget.

Don't expect to be able to get away with re-writing history...

Apparently not.
Inarticulate Insights,
By Boofer

war  posted on  2011-04-06   15:24:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: war (#46)

What do you want me to blame them for, Libby?

Nevermind. 0bama and the Dems have created no actual cluster*** out there. No sh*tstorm...

Go back to zipping up your lycra onesey for the Big Race - sorry to have disturb you.

Liberator  posted on  2011-04-06   15:33:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: Liberator (#50)

Typical of you Libby.

BoyBlunder did no wrong.

You forget WHY the dems took the COngress back in '06 and why Boy Blunder almost LOST the WH in '04 to the weakest candidate the dems could have run.

Apparently not.
Inarticulate Insights,
By Boofer

war  posted on  2011-04-06   15:37:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: war (#49)

Two main events courtesy of a GOP controlled Congress and WH...the tax cuts and the HUD decision to allow banks to increase sub-prime lending caused the damage. Those occurred several years before Reid/Pelosi...

The mortgage market had already begun to implode in 2006 and banks were trying to hide the bleeding. Don't expect to be able to get away with re-writing history...

Huh?? Tax cuts help ruin the economy instead of runaway fedgov spending??

Chyeah, right.

The sub-prime....hmmm....Do the names Dodd, Frank, Waters, Gorelick and Franklin Raines ring a bell? Or "Clinton"?

Sure, Bush was a moron, but Barney Frank and the above RATS got away with his "WHAT housing bubble??" BS and is still getting away with it. Fannie and Freddie are still asking the public for money, the economy is still in the toilet and you and the Democratic Party are still conveniently blaming Dubya.

This depression has waaaay more to do with the policies of the liberal-socialist Democrats.

In 1997 Clinton's HUD secretary, a Andrew Cuomo claimed Fannie Mae had exhibited "racial discrimination" and proposed that 50 percent of Fannie and Freddie loan portfolio be made up of loans to low- and moderate-income borrowers by 2001. Bush went along with it - backed by the RAT committee members.

Asshole queer Congressfag, Barney Fwank: “These two entities – Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac – are not facing any kind of financial crisis....The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.”

Are you going to claim ignorance, war? Or are you really just in denial?

Liberator  posted on  2011-04-06   15:48:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: war (#51) (Edited)

Typical of you Libby.

BoyBlunder did no wrong.

He did a LOT wrong because he's been a liberal-moderate neocon from the very beginning. But mostly because he acted like a Dem Prez.

Liberator  posted on  2011-04-06   15:50:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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