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Corrupt Government
See other Corrupt Government Articles

Title: Why we can't tax ourselves out of the deficit problem
Source: American Thinker
URL Source: http://.
Published: Apr 5, 2011
Author: Steve McCann
Post Date: 2011-04-05 17:56:18 by CZ82
Keywords: None
Views: 92897
Comments: 113

Why we can't tax ourselves out of the deficit problem

Steve McCann

Yesterday I was in the belly of the beast: Washington D.C. At a lunch meeting, which included a number of liberal Democrats, the inevitable subject of the runaway spending and debt came up, particularly in light of Paul Ryan issuing a budget which would go a long way toward curing our financial ills. While I and others extolled the positive economic effects of dramatically reducing government spending, those on the other side refused to come off the mantra of all we have to do is raise taxes on the rich and that will solve nearly all our problems.

Admittedly, all of those who were in that camp were, you guessed it, lifelong government bureaucrats. I forcefully made the case that raising taxes on the rich would not generate anywhere near the revenue they thought, or even make a dent in the deficit, and would in fact end up reducing revenue and killing job creation. The argument fell on deaf ears. So, having done the research on the issue in the past based on numbers from their fellow bureaucrats in the IRS, I told them I would forward the details.

I am doing so through the American Thinker in a devious attempt to not only get their attention but to ruin their day by forcing them to see and hopefully read the articles and blog entries.

The data is contained on the following IRS site: Section: Tax Generated; subsection; Tax rate and size of Adjusted Gross Income (2008): Table 3.5 (The table is here)

The tax year of 2008 was the last to date that the IRS has done this kind of analysis. In 2008 the highest marginal tax rate of 35% applied to all AGI above $357,700.00. In that year the total amount of AGI subject to the highest rate was $622.8 Billion. The government collected in taxes $218.0 Billion (35%).

In 2011 the annual budget deficit will be nearly $1,665.0 Billion and in 2012: $1,100.0 Billion. If the Liberal Democrats in league with the Socialists, the Unions and the Communists, succeed in raising the highest marginal rate, how much more would Washington D.C. receive, assuming no change in behavior and a general eagerness to pay more?

If the highest rate of 35% were raised by a factor of 20% to 42%, then the additional tax revenue would be $43.5 Billion, not much of a dent in $1,665.0 Billion. So, let's raise the rate by a factor of 50% to 52.5%; the additional revenue would be $108.9 Billion. Still nowhere near enough, so let's just tax it at a rate of 100%, bringing in an additional $404.8 Billion. Unfortunately the country is still $1,260.0 Billion in the hole for the year.

Obviously by confiscating at 100% of all the income of the so-called rich above a predetermined level, there would never again be an incentive to earn above the highest tax rate threshold. So where will the Left have to turn next: where the money is, the middle class.

The Left knows the gullible among us (other Lefties) easily fall for centuries-old class warfare rhetoric that demonizes the wealthy, yet they persist in doing the unconscionable, as it keeps them in power despite the fact that it enflames passions and in some cases, violence.

What the Democrats are doing is entirely based on a lie. The United States cannot tax its way out of the present financial crisis, and from a cursory examination of Paul Ryan's proposal, his is the best plan yet presented and needs to be defended and promoted.

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#1. To: CZ82 (#0)

While I and others extolled the positive economic effects of dramatically reducing government spending, those on the other side refused to come off the mantra of all we have to do is raise taxes on the rich and that will solve nearly all our problems.

That certainly isn't true in California. Governor Brown has proposed a combination of budget cuts and keeping in place taxes due to expire, not new taxes.

You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand

lucysmom  posted on  2011-04-05   18:21:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: CZ82 (#0)

Taxes need to be raised...period.

Apparently not.
Inarticulate Insights,
By Boofer

war  posted on  2011-04-05   18:24:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: war (#2)

Taxes need to be raised...period.

Then volunteer to pay more.....

"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning

CZ82  posted on  2011-04-05   18:27:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: CZ82 (#0) (Edited)

This is really simple:

Average Post-WWII Federal Budget
Spending: 20% of GDP
Taxes: 18% of GDP

Last year of the Clinton Administration
Spending: 19% of GDP
Taxes: 19% of GDP

Today
Spending: 25% of GDP
Taxes: ~18% of GDP

The politicians have a spending problem. PERIOD.


"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899

jwpegler  posted on  2011-04-05   18:40:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: jwpegler (#4)

The politicians have a spending problem. PERIOD.

You know you shouldn't post things like this, it just enrages the Libtards... They'll start having heart attacks.....

"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning

CZ82  posted on  2011-04-05   18:53:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: war (#2)

Taxes need to be raised...period.

It's official, you have now left the building.

We The People  posted on  2011-04-05   20:41:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: We The People (#6)

It's official, you have now left the building.

I'm curious. How do you propose we pay for three simultaneous wars?

Skip Intro  posted on  2011-04-05   20:44:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: We The People (#6)

The entire first decade of 21st century was one of the worst in terms of revenue growth.

Sorry but this 50 year plan to pay down debt is insane. You could cut spending in half and still have this debt.

It HAS to be paid. And the only way it will be paid is with revenues.

Apparently not.
Inarticulate Insights,
By Boofer

war  posted on  2011-04-05   20:46:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Skip Intro (#7)

I'm curious. How do you propose we pay for three simultaneous wars?

Why don't you ask the nigger? He's the one authorizing this at this point.

Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??

no gnu taxes  posted on  2011-04-05   20:47:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: CZ82 (#3)

Then volunteer to pay more.....

That's the problem...all of you want this resolved without a solution...

Apparently not.
Inarticulate Insights,
By Boofer

war  posted on  2011-04-05   20:47:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: no gnu taxes (#9)

Why don't you ask the nigger?

Fine.

How do you propose we pay for three simultaneous wars?

Apparently not.
Inarticulate Insights,
By Boofer

war  posted on  2011-04-05   20:49:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: war (#11)

I'll be damned. I didn't know the asshole was still here.

Skip Intro  posted on  2011-04-05   20:51:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: war (#2)

Taxes need to be raised...period.

Yeah they need to tax welfare benefits.

They need to tax people who don't pay any taxes.

They need to cut all unconstitutional social spending.

That wont happen until we have an American President.

A K A Stone  posted on  2011-04-05   20:54:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: A K A Stone (#13)

They need to tax people who don't pay any taxes.

You want to tax corporations? They're people too, according to the Supreme Court.

Won't they just pass those taxes along to us?

Of course, if they do that, then everybody would be paying taxes, which negates your argument of taxing people who don't pay taxes, since everyone pays the taxes the corporations don't.

And I agree; welfare should be taxed. So should tax cuts. It makes just as much sense.

Skip Intro  posted on  2011-04-05   20:59:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: war (#11)

Why don't you ask the nigger?

Fine.

How do you propose we pay for three simultaneous wars?

Anybody with any sense knows that the wars are not the main fiscal concern in this Country.

But if you think it is, you should probably petition Mandingo Obambo to do something about it.

Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??

no gnu taxes  posted on  2011-04-05   20:59:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: no gnu taxes (#15)

C'mon nigger,..answer my question...

Apparently not.
Inarticulate Insights,
By Boofer

war  posted on  2011-04-05   21:30:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: war (#8)

It HAS to be paid. And the only way it will be paid is with revenues.

So if the unemployment rate was only say 3-4%, wouldn't that mean more revenues and less spending all rolled up into one........

"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning

CZ82  posted on  2011-04-05   21:46:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: CZ82 (#17)

You cut government spending in half and you're going to have higher unemployment not lower.

Apparently not.
Inarticulate Insights,
By Boofer

war  posted on  2011-04-05   22:16:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: war (#16)

C'mon nigger,..answer my question...

Looks like the nigger has left the building.

Skip Intro  posted on  2011-04-05   22:18:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Skip Intro (#14)

You want to tax corporations? They're people too, according to the Supreme Court.

Won't they just pass those taxes along to us?

Of course, if they do that, then everybody would be paying taxes, which negates your argument of taxing people who don't pay taxes, since everyone pays the taxes the corporations don't.

And I agree; welfare should be taxed. So should tax cuts. It makes just as much sense.

It would be an interesting idea. To repeal Nafta, Gatt and the UN. Then only tax corporations and have tariffs on foreign goods.

A K A Stone  posted on  2011-04-05   22:18:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: A K A Stone (#20)

To repeal Nafta, Gatt and the UN.

Got any names of Republicans who are in favor of that?

Skip Intro  posted on  2011-04-05   22:20:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Skip Intro (#21)

Rand Paul 2012

A K A Stone  posted on  2011-04-05   22:21:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: A K A Stone (#22)

Rand Paul 2012

If he's the only one he doesn't have a prayer.

Skip Intro  posted on  2011-04-05   22:22:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Skip Intro (#19)

Quick...hand me the Popeye's coupon...

Apparently not.
Inarticulate Insights,
By Boofer

war  posted on  2011-04-05   22:23:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Skip Intro (#23)

Hilarious that these Bots bitch about Obama's alleged lack of experience when all this guy has been doing for most of his life is fitting people for contact and corrective lenses.

Apparently not.
Inarticulate Insights,
By Boofer

war  posted on  2011-04-05   22:25:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: no gnu taxes (#9)

Why don't you ask the nigger? He's the one authorizing this at this point.

Congress authorizes the money for the wars.

You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand

lucysmom  posted on  2011-04-06   8:51:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Skip Intro (#7)

I'm curious. How do you propose we pay for three simultaneous wars?

Well, if it were my decision, I would end them, bring the troops home.

We The People  posted on  2011-04-06   13:42:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: We The People (#27)

Well, if it were my decision, I would end them, bring the troops home.

Well, it's not your decision, so someone has to pay for them. How?

Skip Intro  posted on  2011-04-06   13:44:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: war (#8)

It HAS to be paid. And the only way it will be paid is with revenues.

Then cut taxes and regulations on businesses and manufacturing. Stop holding them back and allow them to produce.

There is no way out of this mess that isn't going to be painful. It's the price we pay for letting it get this far.

We The People  posted on  2011-04-06   13:44:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Skip Intro (#28)

Well, it's not your decision, so someone has to pay for them. How?

First, we MUST end them. If you're bleeding, cleaning the wound will not save your life. You have to stop the bleeding.

Then, just as above, take the shackles off of our economy and allow businesses to produce. Stop printing new money, cut taxes and drastically CUT spending.

Surely you can agree that our government should live within its means, like you and I have to do?

We The People  posted on  2011-04-06   13:56:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: We The People (#30)

First, we MUST end them. If you're bleeding, cleaning the wound will not save your life. You have to stop the bleeding.

Well, that's what Obama said he'd do, and we all know how well that worked out. From what I see, the Republican candidates not only want to keep the wars we've got, they want to start more.

So, I don't see them ending any time soon.

Skip Intro  posted on  2011-04-06   14:00:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: war (#25)

Hilarious that these Bots bitch about Obama's alleged lack of experience when all this guy has been doing for most of his life is fitting people for contact and corrective lenses.

Do you even know the difference between an ophthalmologist and an optometrist?

Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??

no gnu taxes  posted on  2011-04-06   14:04:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: We The People (#30)

Then, just as above, take the shackles off of our economy and allow businesses to produce. Stop printing new money, cut taxes and drastically CUT spending.

What shackles? Schackles like clean air and water regs? Child labor laws and the minimum wage?

ANY money that is borrowed is "printing" money. IN point of fact, one reason for the creation of the Federal Reserve was so that "common folk" COULD borrow money.

The middle class in this nation exists partly because of some of those "shackles".

I'm not lumping you in this but I am always so struck ny the iropny of the GOP...they romaticize the American Family and "middle class values" while doing everything in their power, once attained, to destroy them.

Progressives created the middle class and they fought conservatives every step of the way while doing so.

Apparently not.
Inarticulate Insights,
By Boofer

war  posted on  2011-04-06   14:06:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: no gnu taxes (#32)

Yes, nigger, I do.

Better one?

Better two?

Clearer one?

Clearer two?

versus

Here...let me clean those for you...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Of the above, who is more qualified to be POTUS.

The correct answer, not that I'd expect a nigger like you to understand, is "neither".

Apparently not.
Inarticulate Insights,
By Boofer

war  posted on  2011-04-06   14:08:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: war (#33)

What shackles? Schackles like clean air and water regs? Child labor laws and the minimum wage?

Yes, those shackles, and many more.

ANY money that is borrowed is "printing" money.

Then stop borrowing and spending. Like I said, there IS NO EASY WAY OUT. There is no magic wand and no magician can pull us out of this debt. We have to do it and we have to do what it takes to get it done. If we don't what's our alternative? We simply can't tax our way out of this debt.

Progressives created the middle class and they fought conservatives every step of the way while doing so.

:o|

We The People  posted on  2011-04-06   14:11:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: war (#34)

Better one?

Better two?

Clearer one?

Clearer two?

versus

Here...let me clean those for you...

You obviously don't.

One is a medical doctor. One is not.

Paul's specialty was performing cataract and glaucoma surgeries; not that I am any big fan of his anyway.

Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??

no gnu taxes  posted on  2011-04-06   14:11:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: no gnu taxes (#36)

Whatever, (deleted you f**king moron)

Apparently not.
Inarticulate Insights,
By Boofer

war  posted on  2011-04-06   14:12:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: war (#33)

I'm not lumping you in this but I am always so struck ny the iropny of the GOP...they romaticize the American Family and "middle class values" while doing everything in their power, once attained, to destroy them.

That's why I'm not GOP. But it's not just the GOP. I'm always struck by the irony of you who promote ONE party over the other, when BOTH parties are to blame. I KNOW you're more intelligent than that.

The Democrat party is absolutely as much to blame as the Pubs. Congress is made up of both, and it's taken both to get us here.

Crazy deficit spending, free trade agreements, endless war, the list goes on and on...all fault lies squarely on the shoulders of 536 people, made up of D's and R's.

Hang them all. THEN we'll figure out how to recover.

We The People  posted on  2011-04-06   14:17:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: We The People (#38)

Crazy deficit spending, free trade agreements, endless war, the list goes on and on...all fault lies squarely on the shoulders of 536 people, made up of D's and R's.

I believe that the GOP has been the most destructive to his nation's national Security and fiscal and economics health.

I stated back in 2008, that of all the candidates running, only Hillary Clinton had the balls to do what needed to be done to get this house in order. I still believe that.

The GITMO mess wouldn't have happened...we'd be out of Iraq and we'd have only a merc/special forces presence in Afghanistan.

Fiscally, taxes would have been properly restored to the levels of the 1990's when revenue growth was the most optimal in post WWII history [inflation adjusted].

You can't elect idealogues or people who are just along for the ride...it's why Obama, unless he finds a different stride, will not succeed. It's whay Boy Blunder was an abject failure.

Apparently not.
Inarticulate Insights,
By Boofer

war  posted on  2011-04-06   14:25:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: war (#39)

I believe that the GOP has been the most destructive to his nation's national Security and fiscal and economics health.

I'm surprised to read that.

We The People  posted on  2011-04-06   14:30:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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