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Corrupt Government
See other Corrupt Government Articles

Title: Why we can't tax ourselves out of the deficit problem
Source: American Thinker
URL Source: http://.
Published: Apr 5, 2011
Author: Steve McCann
Post Date: 2011-04-05 17:56:18 by CZ82
Keywords: None
Views: 92883
Comments: 113

Why we can't tax ourselves out of the deficit problem

Steve McCann

Yesterday I was in the belly of the beast: Washington D.C. At a lunch meeting, which included a number of liberal Democrats, the inevitable subject of the runaway spending and debt came up, particularly in light of Paul Ryan issuing a budget which would go a long way toward curing our financial ills. While I and others extolled the positive economic effects of dramatically reducing government spending, those on the other side refused to come off the mantra of all we have to do is raise taxes on the rich and that will solve nearly all our problems.

Admittedly, all of those who were in that camp were, you guessed it, lifelong government bureaucrats. I forcefully made the case that raising taxes on the rich would not generate anywhere near the revenue they thought, or even make a dent in the deficit, and would in fact end up reducing revenue and killing job creation. The argument fell on deaf ears. So, having done the research on the issue in the past based on numbers from their fellow bureaucrats in the IRS, I told them I would forward the details.

I am doing so through the American Thinker in a devious attempt to not only get their attention but to ruin their day by forcing them to see and hopefully read the articles and blog entries.

The data is contained on the following IRS site: Section: Tax Generated; subsection; Tax rate and size of Adjusted Gross Income (2008): Table 3.5 (The table is here)

The tax year of 2008 was the last to date that the IRS has done this kind of analysis. In 2008 the highest marginal tax rate of 35% applied to all AGI above $357,700.00. In that year the total amount of AGI subject to the highest rate was $622.8 Billion. The government collected in taxes $218.0 Billion (35%).

In 2011 the annual budget deficit will be nearly $1,665.0 Billion and in 2012: $1,100.0 Billion. If the Liberal Democrats in league with the Socialists, the Unions and the Communists, succeed in raising the highest marginal rate, how much more would Washington D.C. receive, assuming no change in behavior and a general eagerness to pay more?

If the highest rate of 35% were raised by a factor of 20% to 42%, then the additional tax revenue would be $43.5 Billion, not much of a dent in $1,665.0 Billion. So, let's raise the rate by a factor of 50% to 52.5%; the additional revenue would be $108.9 Billion. Still nowhere near enough, so let's just tax it at a rate of 100%, bringing in an additional $404.8 Billion. Unfortunately the country is still $1,260.0 Billion in the hole for the year.

Obviously by confiscating at 100% of all the income of the so-called rich above a predetermined level, there would never again be an incentive to earn above the highest tax rate threshold. So where will the Left have to turn next: where the money is, the middle class.

The Left knows the gullible among us (other Lefties) easily fall for centuries-old class warfare rhetoric that demonizes the wealthy, yet they persist in doing the unconscionable, as it keeps them in power despite the fact that it enflames passions and in some cases, violence.

What the Democrats are doing is entirely based on a lie. The United States cannot tax its way out of the present financial crisis, and from a cursory examination of Paul Ryan's proposal, his is the best plan yet presented and needs to be defended and promoted.

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#71. To: no gnu taxes (#70)

Since you can't seem to read, you might actually consider that none of this was EVER a problem before the CRA and the unleashing of the GREs.

Wha...chuckle...huh?

GSE's do one thing, nigger...BUY mortgages and bundle them and sell them to Wall Street.

They don't underwrite the mortgages and they can only buy mortgages that HUD approved for them to buy.

Dickhead...

Apparently not.
Inarticulate Insights,
By Boofer

war  posted on  2011-04-06   16:36:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: war (#68)

Clinton sued a lender named Accubank in 1998 under the CRA , forcing it a to write $2.1 billion in subprimes. Clinton then sued Columbia Mortgage in 1999, forcing it to write $6 billion in subprimes. You can see Clinton's Secretary of HUD (Andrew Cuomo) crowing about these "victories" on YouTube if you search just a bit.

What Clinton did was to get a ball rolling that nobody could stop. Banks had gotten the message. If you don’t relax your standards and start writing high-risk loans, the government will sue you. If you do write high-risk loans, the government will reward you with a guarantee. What followed was the housing disaster as we know it.

The disaster quickly became much larger than the subprime problem. Once the banks had gotten into the psychology of realizing that bad behavior was being rewarded, there was nothing stopping them from expanding this concept. Why make high-risk loans only to low-income people? Why not make money on the transaction fees associated with selling high-risk mortgages to everyone, then sell those mortgages upstream, ultimately to someone guaranteed directly by Fannie & Freddie or to Fanny & Freddie themselves?

It is ridiculous to insist that the subprime mortgages themselves must do all the damage if we are to credit the CRA for the problem. If a guy blows up a dam (as Clinton did by distorting the market) then we blame him, not the water that he releases, for doing all the further and larger damage downstream.

Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??

no gnu taxes  posted on  2011-04-06   16:38:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: war (#62)

Government jobs have gone down under Obama.

2008- 2,768,886

2009- 2,823,777

Figures courtesy of US Census Bureau....... figures for 2010 have not been compiled yet and won't be out until Aug 2011......

"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning

CZ82  posted on  2011-04-06   16:41:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: war, no gnu taxes (#68)

Knock it off with the N talk.

A K A Stone  posted on  2011-04-06   17:22:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: war (#62)

Thank you for reminding me why responding to you is always an utter waste of time. You're the Yukon of Leftist ideologues.

It's only a theory, but have you considered loosening your lycra-spandex man-bra? You could be constricting crucial oxygen and blood trying to flow north.

P.S. - You're welcome.

Liberator  posted on  2011-04-06   19:30:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: CZ82, war (#73)

2008- 2,768,886

2009- 2,823,777

Figures courtesy of US Census Bureau....... figures for 2010 have not been compiled yet and won't be out until Aug 2011......

HUH?? These numbers must be a mistake; The "real" numbers are anything 0bama and war tell us...

*snicker*

Liberator  posted on  2011-04-06   19:34:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: war (#66)

You claim that Obama is deliberately crashing the economy and the oil market but I',m the one who should cry UNCLE?!?

ROFLMAO...

It's hardly a claim, Magoo.

Gee - I'll bet your stats reveal the price of gasoline has been slashed by...what...50% under 0bama in 2 years instead of doubling? HELLO.

And no, of course limousine liberals never say, "UNCLE," they say, "oooooh-ooooh, baby....faster....FASTER!!!!!"

Liberator  posted on  2011-04-06   19:39:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: no gnu taxes, war (#65)

Good post...Will war read it? Naaah.

Simple evidence will not ever deter the man from conceding the truth on the matter...OR levy a simple, honest criticism of a fellow Leftist ideologue.

Liberator  posted on  2011-04-06   19:43:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: war (#64)

It wasn't the dems who mandated the 25% LMI, Libby.

Will you concede the point that Dem circus performers Frank, Dodd, Waters, Raines, and Gorelick profitted from and colluded to create the mortgage bubble?

Liberator  posted on  2011-04-06   19:46:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: CZ82 (#73)

Wha...huh?

The Bureau of Labor Statistics compiles employment data:

Federal Government Employment March 2010: 2,926M
Federal Government Employment March 2011: 2,852M

Manufacturing Employment 2010: 11,471M
Manufacturing Employment 2011: 11,667M

Apparently not.
Inarticulate Insights,
By Boofer

war  posted on  2011-04-06   19:47:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: no gnu taxes (#70)

Since you can't seem to read, you might actually consider that none of this was EVER a problem before the CRA and the unleashing of the GREs.

Any fair-minded observer knows where the blame lies. Only political ideologues refuse to consider ANY wrong-doing of their party. Liberalism is a disease ~ Michael Weiner.

Liberator  posted on  2011-04-06   19:49:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: war (#80)

Doctored.

Liberator  posted on  2011-04-06   19:50:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: war (#80) (Edited)

Shifting your fight to ambiguous, doctored stats still don't address 0bama's private sector economy which is choking and sputtering like a corpse's final few breaths.

Gasoline prices have DOUBLED under 0bama's "leadership." Prices are skyrocketing. We're still bleeding jobs - REAL jobs left and right.

NAME ONE "ACCOMPLISHMENT" of 0bama's. Just one, war.

Liberator  posted on  2011-04-06   19:54:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: no gnu taxes (#72)

Clinton sued a lender named Accubank in 1998 under the CRA , forcing it a to write $2.1 billion in subprimes.

First off, a CRA loan is not synonymous with sub-prime. It's a loan made within a certain community that has been designated as CRA eligible. Are sub-prime loans made within the auspice of CRA? Yes. But not every loan made under CRA is sub-prime.

Secondly, Accubank - and several other lenders in Texas - were put through what is called "Matched pair testing" in which people of color and white people with the same work and credit history and of similar income levels apply for a mortgage. Accubank routinely granted the white applicants mortgages but not the minorities.

CRA did not cause the housing bubble. One look in the communities that have suffered the most foreclosures and walk-aways underscores this. As do several independent studies including the several that I have already posted to you.

Apparently not.
Inarticulate Insights,
By Boofer

war  posted on  2011-04-06   19:56:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: Liberator (#82)

Chuckles...I linked directly to them, moron.

Apparently not.
Inarticulate Insights,
By Boofer

war  posted on  2011-04-06   19:57:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: A K A Stone, Skip Intro, Biff Tannen, Fred Mertz (#74)

Knock it off with the N talk.

Why?

You claim to not mind the use of the word. I can link you to the thread if you want.

Or is this yet another one of these instances where because I decide to take advantage of your policy - in this case an explicit one - you decide to change it?

Apparently not.
Inarticulate Insights,
By Boofer

war  posted on  2011-04-06   20:00:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: war (#84)

First off, a CRA loan is not synonymous with sub-prime.

More leftist hogwash. Any boofer with good credit and verifiable income would have had no problem getting a loan.

in which people of color and white people with the same work and credit history and of similar income levels

I'm highly skeptical of this undocumented "fact."

CRA did not cause the housing bubble.

Yes it did, along with associated PC policies.

One look in the communities that have suffered the most foreclosures and walk-aways underscores this.

When you're granted a loan in a community where the only qualifications are to have malt liquor breath and 46 illegitimate children, what do you expect?

Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??

no gnu taxes  posted on  2011-04-06   20:07:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: no gnu taxes, war, Capitalist Eric (#87) (Edited)

Yes it did, along with associated PC policies.

The New York Times reports that the Republican members of the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission are going to pre-empt the report (due in mid-January) and issue their own 13 page screed later today focusing blame for the crisis on…Fannie and Freddie, and no doubt the CRA too.

Let’s look at a few inconvenient facts. We had housing bubbles in the UK, Australia, Ireland, Spain, Iceland, Latvia, Canada, and a lot of Eastern Europe. Can we blame the CRA and Fannie and Freddie for that?

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2...ift-blame-from-banks.html

You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand

lucysmom  posted on  2011-04-06   20:20:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: no gnu taxes (#87)

Any boofer with good credit and verifiable income would have had no problem getting a loan.

According to Boofer he had no problem. Black and hispanics couldn't though.

Yes it did

yes it did...yes it did...grow the fuck up, dickhead.

There are reams of studies that prove you a fool...

http://traigerlaw.com/publications/the_community_reinvestment_act_of_1977-not_guilty_1-26-09.pdf

http://www.minneapolisfed.org/publications_papers/pub_display.cfm?id=4136

http://fcic.law.stanford.edu/report/conclusions*

*You'll note that not even the GOP members blamed the CRA.

When you're granted a loan in a community where the only qualifications are to have malt liquor breath and 46 illegitimate children, what do you expect?

More Padlock bullshit. The areas with the highest foreclosures are areas of wealth.

Apparently not.
Inarticulate Insights,
By Boofer

war  posted on  2011-04-06   20:22:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: lucysmom (#88) (Edited)

The irony is that they did NOT blame the CRA.

Apparently not.
Inarticulate Insights,
By Boofer

war  posted on  2011-04-06   20:22:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#91. To: lucysmom (#88)

We had housing bubbles in the UK, Australia, Ireland, Spain, Iceland, Latvia, Canada, and a lot of Eastern Europe. Can we blame the CRA and Fannie and Freddie for that?

To an extent, yes.

Or perhaps, we should blame Bush's HUD for all that as (deleted you f**king moron) suggests.

Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??

no gnu taxes  posted on  2011-04-06   20:24:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: Liberator (#83)

You're not getting anything from me until you acknowledge your error of accusing me of providing "doctored" stats.

Apparently not.
Inarticulate Insights,
By Boofer

war  posted on  2011-04-06   20:25:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#93. To: no gnu taxes (#91)

To an extent, yes.

Bulls**t, (deleted you f**king moron)

Apparently not.
Inarticulate Insights,
By Boofer

war  posted on  2011-04-06   20:26:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#94. To: war (#89)

The Commission concluded that "the crisis was avoidable and was caused by: Widespread failures in financial regulation, including the Federal Reserve’s failure to stem the tide of toxic mortgages; Dramatic breakdowns in corporate governance including too many financial firms acting recklessly and taking on too much risk; An explosive mix of excessive borrowing and risk by households and Wall Street that put the financial system on a collision course with crisis; Key policy makers ill prepared for the crisis, lacking a full understanding of the financial system they oversaw; and systemic breaches in accountability and ethics at all levels

And you can't recognize that this is nothing but bureaucratic (ahem ... cough...cough...buhshit...buhshit)

Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??

no gnu taxes  posted on  2011-04-06   20:31:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#95. To: war, Liberator (#92)

You're not getting anything from me until you acknowledge your error of accusing me of providing "doctored" stats.

He was probably saying the BLS doctored the stats, but that's just my input

Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??

no gnu taxes  posted on  2011-04-06   20:33:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#96. To: no gnu taxes (#94)

Wow...what an excellent rebuttal, (deleted).

Too bad you can't leap up and scream at me for calling your boss a Nazi.

Apparently not.
Inarticulate Insights,
By Boofer

war  posted on  2011-04-06   20:33:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#97. To: no gnu taxes (#95)

Nah...Libby has left the building. He will never ever admit he's wrong.

He's like you, (deleted you f**king moron)

Apparently not.
Inarticulate Insights,
By Boofer

war  posted on  2011-04-06   20:34:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#98. To: war (#90)

The irony is that they did NOT blame the CRA.

Not in the report but obviously the memo has been circulated.

You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand

lucysmom  posted on  2011-04-06   20:41:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#99. To: no gnu taxes, war (#95)

He was probably saying the BLS doctored the stats, but that's just my input

Yup.

It all just goes to prove what a damn waste of time liberals and Leftists are. It doesn't matter whether it's a forum or real life, they are ALL delusional twits creating their own special reality.

Liberator  posted on  2011-04-06   21:02:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#100. To: no gnu taxes (#91)

To an extent, yes.

Its a bore reading the same discredited, data-free memes: The CRA caused the crisis, Fannie Mae caused the crisis, the FHA caused the crisis. Its become embarrassing to read.

Their latest release combines all three memes in one giant clusterfuck of imbecility:

snip

Instead of email press releases, they should have a tiny car pull up, with streams of brightly dressed clowns pouring out of the car shooting confetti versions of this.

Simply embarrassing junk . . .

www.ritholtz.com/blog/201...ure+%28The+Big+Picture%29

You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand

lucysmom  posted on  2011-04-06   21:02:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#101. To: war (#86)

It is my call not yours. You are just using it over and over to try and make some imaginary point.

A K A Stone  posted on  2011-04-06   21:08:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#102. To: no gnu taxes (#91)

Quit using his damned name. Everytime you do that I get a pm from him. I gave him a hard time about the same issue. So it is only fair.

A K A Stone  posted on  2011-04-06   21:09:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#103. To: war (#92)

You're not getting anything from me until you acknowledge your error of accusing me of providing "doctored" stats.

"You're a victim of coicumstance." ~ Curly Howard

"Nuthin' from nuthin' leaves nuthin'." ~ Billy Preston

"What a maroon." ~ Bugs Bunny

Liberator  posted on  2011-04-06   21:10:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#104. To: war (#96)

I was just ready to delete his comment with your name. But seems like you already got him back.

A K A Stone  posted on  2011-04-06   21:10:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#105. To: A K A Stone (#104)

It just fucking kills you to enforce your own rules when it benefits me doesn't it?

Apparently not.
Inarticulate Insights,
By Boofer

war  posted on  2011-04-07   7:14:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#106. To: A K A Stone (#101) (Edited)

Then make the call for once.

Apparently not.
Inarticulate Insights,
By Boofer

war  posted on  2011-04-07   7:17:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#107. To: Liberator (#99) (Edited)

ROFLMAO...yet you will cite those same stats when your hero the Boy Blunder was in office to tell us how GREAT and WONDERFUL everything was by going full Soma Dream to the fact that it was under HIS watch and under HIS policies all of those loans were made.

It is absolutely hilarious that you blame Clinton for a financial meltdown that occurred 6 years after he left office, in part on mortages that were primarily issued 3-4 years after he left office on a policy that he had no part in forumulating.

Apparently not.
Inarticulate Insights,
By Boofer

war  posted on  2011-04-07   7:21:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#108. To: lucysmom (#98)

Not in the report but obviously the memo has been circulated.

I'm not surprised. $300bln of CRA mortgages outstanding...94% performing...but it's "their" fault.

Apparently not.
Inarticulate Insights,
By Boofer

war  posted on  2011-04-07   7:28:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#109. To: war (#105)

I went ahead and deleted it anyways.

A K A Stone  posted on  2011-04-07   8:49:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#110. To: A K A Stone (#109)

Thanks...now if you could simply swallow any bile and stop acting as if it was me who fired the first shot...

Apparently not.
Inarticulate Insights,
By Boofer

war  posted on  2011-04-07   8:52:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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