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Corrupt Government
See other Corrupt Government Articles

Title: Why we can't tax ourselves out of the deficit problem
Source: American Thinker
URL Source: http://.
Published: Apr 5, 2011
Author: Steve McCann
Post Date: 2011-04-05 17:56:18 by CZ82
Keywords: None
Views: 92784
Comments: 113

Why we can't tax ourselves out of the deficit problem

Steve McCann

Yesterday I was in the belly of the beast: Washington D.C. At a lunch meeting, which included a number of liberal Democrats, the inevitable subject of the runaway spending and debt came up, particularly in light of Paul Ryan issuing a budget which would go a long way toward curing our financial ills. While I and others extolled the positive economic effects of dramatically reducing government spending, those on the other side refused to come off the mantra of all we have to do is raise taxes on the rich and that will solve nearly all our problems.

Admittedly, all of those who were in that camp were, you guessed it, lifelong government bureaucrats. I forcefully made the case that raising taxes on the rich would not generate anywhere near the revenue they thought, or even make a dent in the deficit, and would in fact end up reducing revenue and killing job creation. The argument fell on deaf ears. So, having done the research on the issue in the past based on numbers from their fellow bureaucrats in the IRS, I told them I would forward the details.

I am doing so through the American Thinker in a devious attempt to not only get their attention but to ruin their day by forcing them to see and hopefully read the articles and blog entries.

The data is contained on the following IRS site: Section: Tax Generated; subsection; Tax rate and size of Adjusted Gross Income (2008): Table 3.5 (The table is here)

The tax year of 2008 was the last to date that the IRS has done this kind of analysis. In 2008 the highest marginal tax rate of 35% applied to all AGI above $357,700.00. In that year the total amount of AGI subject to the highest rate was $622.8 Billion. The government collected in taxes $218.0 Billion (35%).

In 2011 the annual budget deficit will be nearly $1,665.0 Billion and in 2012: $1,100.0 Billion. If the Liberal Democrats in league with the Socialists, the Unions and the Communists, succeed in raising the highest marginal rate, how much more would Washington D.C. receive, assuming no change in behavior and a general eagerness to pay more?

If the highest rate of 35% were raised by a factor of 20% to 42%, then the additional tax revenue would be $43.5 Billion, not much of a dent in $1,665.0 Billion. So, let's raise the rate by a factor of 50% to 52.5%; the additional revenue would be $108.9 Billion. Still nowhere near enough, so let's just tax it at a rate of 100%, bringing in an additional $404.8 Billion. Unfortunately the country is still $1,260.0 Billion in the hole for the year.

Obviously by confiscating at 100% of all the income of the so-called rich above a predetermined level, there would never again be an incentive to earn above the highest tax rate threshold. So where will the Left have to turn next: where the money is, the middle class.

The Left knows the gullible among us (other Lefties) easily fall for centuries-old class warfare rhetoric that demonizes the wealthy, yet they persist in doing the unconscionable, as it keeps them in power despite the fact that it enflames passions and in some cases, violence.

What the Democrats are doing is entirely based on a lie. The United States cannot tax its way out of the present financial crisis, and from a cursory examination of Paul Ryan's proposal, his is the best plan yet presented and needs to be defended and promoted.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 111.

#2. To: CZ82 (#0)

Taxes need to be raised...period.

war  posted on  2011-04-05   18:24:23 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: war (#2)

Taxes need to be raised...period.

It's official, you have now left the building.

We The People  posted on  2011-04-05   20:41:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: We The People (#6)

It's official, you have now left the building.

I'm curious. How do you propose we pay for three simultaneous wars?

Skip Intro  posted on  2011-04-05   20:44:42 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Skip Intro (#7)

I'm curious. How do you propose we pay for three simultaneous wars?

Well, if it were my decision, I would end them, bring the troops home.

We The People  posted on  2011-04-06   13:42:47 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: We The People (#27)

Well, if it were my decision, I would end them, bring the troops home.

Well, it's not your decision, so someone has to pay for them. How?

Skip Intro  posted on  2011-04-06   13:44:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Skip Intro (#28)

Well, it's not your decision, so someone has to pay for them. How?

First, we MUST end them. If you're bleeding, cleaning the wound will not save your life. You have to stop the bleeding.

Then, just as above, take the shackles off of our economy and allow businesses to produce. Stop printing new money, cut taxes and drastically CUT spending.

Surely you can agree that our government should live within its means, like you and I have to do?

We The People  posted on  2011-04-06   13:56:04 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: We The People (#30)

Then, just as above, take the shackles off of our economy and allow businesses to produce. Stop printing new money, cut taxes and drastically CUT spending.

What shackles? Schackles like clean air and water regs? Child labor laws and the minimum wage?

ANY money that is borrowed is "printing" money. IN point of fact, one reason for the creation of the Federal Reserve was so that "common folk" COULD borrow money.

The middle class in this nation exists partly because of some of those "shackles".

I'm not lumping you in this but I am always so struck ny the iropny of the GOP...they romaticize the American Family and "middle class values" while doing everything in their power, once attained, to destroy them.

Progressives created the middle class and they fought conservatives every step of the way while doing so.

war  posted on  2011-04-06   14:06:09 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: war (#33)

I'm not lumping you in this but I am always so struck ny the iropny of the GOP...they romaticize the American Family and "middle class values" while doing everything in their power, once attained, to destroy them.

That's why I'm not GOP. But it's not just the GOP. I'm always struck by the irony of you who promote ONE party over the other, when BOTH parties are to blame. I KNOW you're more intelligent than that.

The Democrat party is absolutely as much to blame as the Pubs. Congress is made up of both, and it's taken both to get us here.

Crazy deficit spending, free trade agreements, endless war, the list goes on and on...all fault lies squarely on the shoulders of 536 people, made up of D's and R's.

Hang them all. THEN we'll figure out how to recover.

We The People  posted on  2011-04-06   14:17:28 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: We The People (#38)

Crazy deficit spending, free trade agreements, endless war, the list goes on and on...all fault lies squarely on the shoulders of 536 people, made up of D's and R's.

I believe that the GOP has been the most destructive to his nation's national Security and fiscal and economics health.

I stated back in 2008, that of all the candidates running, only Hillary Clinton had the balls to do what needed to be done to get this house in order. I still believe that.

The GITMO mess wouldn't have happened...we'd be out of Iraq and we'd have only a merc/special forces presence in Afghanistan.

Fiscally, taxes would have been properly restored to the levels of the 1990's when revenue growth was the most optimal in post WWII history [inflation adjusted].

You can't elect idealogues or people who are just along for the ride...it's why Obama, unless he finds a different stride, will not succeed. It's whay Boy Blunder was an abject failure.

war  posted on  2011-04-06   14:25:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: war (#39)

I believe that the GOP has been the most destructive to his nation's national Security and fiscal and economics health.

I'm surprised to read that.

We The People  posted on  2011-04-06   14:30:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: We The People (#40) (Edited)

Think about it...who made using the military in the mideast not only a optipn but a reality?

More debt has been amassed under GOP POTUSes...the most fiscally irresponsible era of my lifetime was most of the 8 years under Boy Blunder...

This was in Boy Blunder's first budget message...

It will retire nearly $1 trillion in debt over the next four years. This will be the largest debt reduction ever achieved by any nation at any time. It achieves the maximum amount of debt reduction possible without payment of wasteful premiums. It will reduce the indebtedness of the United States, relative to our national income, to the lowest level since early in the 20th Century and to the lowest level of any of the largest industrial economies.

war  posted on  2011-04-06   14:44:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: war (#42)

More debt has been amassed under GOP POTUSes...the most fiscally irresponsible era of my lifetime was most of the 8 years under Boy Blunder...

Most of the damage and cratering has been facilitated since 2007 when the Pelosi-Reid Dem Congress took over the purse-strings. Do the math, Pythagoras.

As to Bush, his deficit was created largely by a war that he created, BUT was also backed by most Dems. Dubya also caved to a socialist Dem-style agenda of domestic issues.

Why don't you ever blame 0bama or the Dems, again? tick-tick-tick....

Liberator  posted on  2011-04-06   15:17:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: Liberator (#48)

Most of the damage and cratering has been facilitated since 2007

Bullshit.

Two main events courtesy of a GOP controlled Congress and WH...the tax cuts and the HUD decision to allow banks to increase sub-prime lending caused the damage. Those occurred several years before Reid/Pelosi. The mortgage market had already begun to implode in 2006 and banks were trying to hide the bleeding.

Revenue growth was anemic in that decade. The Dems forced Boy Blunder to put more of his war spending ON budget.

Don't expect to be able to get away with re-writing history...

war  posted on  2011-04-06   15:24:44 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: war (#49)

Two main events courtesy of a GOP controlled Congress and WH...the tax cuts and the HUD decision to allow banks to increase sub-prime lending caused the damage. Those occurred several years before Reid/Pelosi...

The mortgage market had already begun to implode in 2006 and banks were trying to hide the bleeding. Don't expect to be able to get away with re-writing history...

Huh?? Tax cuts help ruin the economy instead of runaway fedgov spending??

Chyeah, right.

The sub-prime....hmmm....Do the names Dodd, Frank, Waters, Gorelick and Franklin Raines ring a bell? Or "Clinton"?

Sure, Bush was a moron, but Barney Frank and the above RATS got away with his "WHAT housing bubble??" BS and is still getting away with it. Fannie and Freddie are still asking the public for money, the economy is still in the toilet and you and the Democratic Party are still conveniently blaming Dubya.

This depression has waaaay more to do with the policies of the liberal-socialist Democrats.

In 1997 Clinton's HUD secretary, a Andrew Cuomo claimed Fannie Mae had exhibited "racial discrimination" and proposed that 50 percent of Fannie and Freddie loan portfolio be made up of loans to low- and moderate-income borrowers by 2001. Bush went along with it - backed by the RAT committee members.

Asshole queer Congressfag, Barney Fwank: “These two entities – Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac – are not facing any kind of financial crisis....The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.”

Are you going to claim ignorance, war? Or are you really just in denial?

Liberator  posted on  2011-04-06   15:48:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: Liberator (#52)

Tax cuts help ruin the economy

Does debt and deficts help ruin the economy or not, Libby? Make up your mind...

In 1997 Clinton's HUD secretary, a Andrew Cuomo claimed Fannie Mae had exhibited "racial discrimination" and proposed that 50 percent of Fannie and Freddie loan portfolio be made up of loans to low- and moderate-income borrowers by 2001.

The program that was implemented during the Clinton Adminstration had a very narrow set of criteria:

1) Only fixed rate mortgages would be issued.

2) Each mortgage would have to carry PMI regardless of the down payment.

3) Only people with 5 years steady and provable employment history would qualify.

Most of the bank issued sub prime mortgages that failed in the financial crisis were written under the 2003 expansion of HUD guidlines

In 2003, Boy Blunder's HUD expanded the guidelines to offer floating rate products, liar loans, 0 down mortgages etc etc ect. They also allowed developers to snap up lots in "depressed" areas and got CRA loans to spec build 2 and 3 family homes.

Here's The Bank Issued Part of the Sub Prime Crisis in one document issued in 2002 and implemented from '03 to '05.

See also: http://www.h uduser.org/portal/publications/hisp_homeown3.pdf

Timeline of Financial Crisis

Fall 2005-Spring 2007

 Fall 2005: growth of housing bubble slows

 Summer 2006: housing prices begin to decline

 Winter 2006: default rates on lower-rated subprime

private mortgage-backed securities (PMBS) begin exceeding normally expected rates in a deflating bubble

 Spring 2007: abnormal default rates cause prices of AAArated PMBS to steeply decline

war  posted on  2011-04-06   16:07:02 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: war (#56)

Still peddling your bullshit/

-----

Three Ways The CRA Pushed Countrywide To Lower Lending Standards

When we discuss the role of the Community Reinvestment Act and other fair lending rules in contributing to lax lending standards, people bent on exonerating the CRA often point out that many of the questionable loans were made by non-depository mortgage companies not covered by the CRA.

Barry Ritholtz has been a prominent critic of the theory that the CRA has some culpability for lax lending. He has pointed out that 50% of subprime loans were made by mortgage service companies not subject comprehensive federal supervision. “How was this caused by either CRA or GSEs?” Barry asked.

As much as I respect Barry’s formidable analytical powers, I’m afraid he’s taken too narrow of the view of the matter. His question is far easier to answer than he suspects. Regulations often touch those who are not directly regulated. Indeed, the regulation of one group in a marketplace will almost always wind up affecting other groups.

More concretely, there are three very specific ways in which the CRA nudged Countrywide and other mortgage companies to adopt lax lending standards.

1. The Creation Of Artificial Demand For Low-Income Mortgages. Banks that were regulated by the CRA often found it difficult to meet their obligations under the CRA directly. Long standing lending practices by local loan officers were a big problem. But as banks expanded their deposit bases and other businesses, they often found that they were at risk of regulators discovering they had fallen behind in making CRA loans.

One way of addressing this problem was buying the loans in the secondary market. Mortgage companies like Countrywide began to serve this entirely artificial demand for CRA loans. Countrywide marketed its loans directly to banks as a way for them to meet CRA obligations. "The result of these efforts is an enormous pipeline of mortgages to low- and moderate-income buyers. With this pipeline, Countrywide Securities Corporation (CSC) can potentially help you meet your Community Reinvestment Act (CRA) goals by offering both whole loan and mortgage-backed securities that are eligible for CRA credit,” a Countrywide advertisement on its website read.

2. The Threat Of Regulation Is Often As Good As Regulation. It is highly misleading to claim that just because mortgage companies were not technically under the CRA that they were not required by regulators to meet similar tests. In fact, regulators threatened that if the mortgage companies didn’t step up to the plate by relaxing lending standards they would be brought under the CRA umbrella and required to do so.

Here’s how City Journal explains the dynamic:

To meet their goals, the two mortgage giants enlisted large lenders—including nonbanks, which weren’t covered by the CRA—into the effort. Freddie Mac began an “alternative qualifying” program with the Sears Mortgage Corporation that let a borrower qualify for a loan with a monthly payment as high as 50 percent of his income, at a time when most private mortgage companies wouldn’t exceed 33 percent. The program also allowed borrowers with bad credit to get mortgages if they took credit-counseling classes administered by Acorn and other nonprofits. Subsequent research would show that such classes have little impact on default rates.

Pressuring nonbank lenders to make more loans to poor minorities didn’t stop with Sears. If it didn’t happen, Clinton officials warned, they’d seek to extend CRA regulations to all mortgage makers. In Congress, Representative Maxine Waters called financial firms not covered by the CRA “among the most egregious redliners.” To rebuff the criticism, the Mortgage Bankers Association (MBA) shocked the financial world by signing a 1994 agreement with the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD), pledging to increase lending to minorities and join in new efforts to rewrite lending standards. The first MBA member to sign up: Countrywide Financial, the mortgage firm that would be at the core of the subprime meltdown.

3. The CRA Distorted the Mortgage Market. With banks offering mortgages with high loan to value, delayed payment schedules and other enticing features, the mortgage companies would have quickly found themselves unable to compete if they didn’t offer similar loans. The requirement to offer risky loans from banks created a situation where other lenders found they had to offer similar products if they wanted to expand their business.

Of course, Angelo Mozillo didn't need very much prompting on this score. He believed exactly what the CRA regulators believed: that these lax lending practices were the wave of the future, democratizing the glories of home ownership.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/three-ways-the-cra-pushed-countrywide-to-lower-lending-standards-2009-6#ixzz1ImCNUB66

no gnu taxes  posted on  2011-04-06   16:24:37 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: no gnu taxes (#65) (Edited)

Nigger...we've had this out before. There was $300Bln of CRA mortgages outstanding when the crisis hit. 94% of them remained performing throughout the crisis.

CRA loan products were no different from any other available mortgage product. There was one difference...the address to which the loans were made to purchase.

Dickhead...

war  posted on  2011-04-06   16:28:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: war (#68)

Clinton sued a lender named Accubank in 1998 under the CRA , forcing it a to write $2.1 billion in subprimes. Clinton then sued Columbia Mortgage in 1999, forcing it to write $6 billion in subprimes. You can see Clinton's Secretary of HUD (Andrew Cuomo) crowing about these "victories" on YouTube if you search just a bit.

What Clinton did was to get a ball rolling that nobody could stop. Banks had gotten the message. If you don’t relax your standards and start writing high-risk loans, the government will sue you. If you do write high-risk loans, the government will reward you with a guarantee. What followed was the housing disaster as we know it.

The disaster quickly became much larger than the subprime problem. Once the banks had gotten into the psychology of realizing that bad behavior was being rewarded, there was nothing stopping them from expanding this concept. Why make high-risk loans only to low-income people? Why not make money on the transaction fees associated with selling high-risk mortgages to everyone, then sell those mortgages upstream, ultimately to someone guaranteed directly by Fannie & Freddie or to Fanny & Freddie themselves?

It is ridiculous to insist that the subprime mortgages themselves must do all the damage if we are to credit the CRA for the problem. If a guy blows up a dam (as Clinton did by distorting the market) then we blame him, not the water that he releases, for doing all the further and larger damage downstream.

no gnu taxes  posted on  2011-04-06   16:38:47 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: no gnu taxes (#72)

Clinton sued a lender named Accubank in 1998 under the CRA , forcing it a to write $2.1 billion in subprimes.

First off, a CRA loan is not synonymous with sub-prime. It's a loan made within a certain community that has been designated as CRA eligible. Are sub-prime loans made within the auspice of CRA? Yes. But not every loan made under CRA is sub-prime.

Secondly, Accubank - and several other lenders in Texas - were put through what is called "Matched pair testing" in which people of color and white people with the same work and credit history and of similar income levels apply for a mortgage. Accubank routinely granted the white applicants mortgages but not the minorities.

CRA did not cause the housing bubble. One look in the communities that have suffered the most foreclosures and walk-aways underscores this. As do several independent studies including the several that I have already posted to you.

war  posted on  2011-04-06   19:56:37 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: war (#84)

First off, a CRA loan is not synonymous with sub-prime.

More leftist hogwash. Any boofer with good credit and verifiable income would have had no problem getting a loan.

in which people of color and white people with the same work and credit history and of similar income levels

I'm highly skeptical of this undocumented "fact."

CRA did not cause the housing bubble.

Yes it did, along with associated PC policies.

One look in the communities that have suffered the most foreclosures and walk-aways underscores this.

When you're granted a loan in a community where the only qualifications are to have malt liquor breath and 46 illegitimate children, what do you expect?

no gnu taxes  posted on  2011-04-06   20:07:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: no gnu taxes, war, Capitalist Eric (#87) (Edited)

Yes it did, along with associated PC policies.

The New York Times reports that the Republican members of the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission are going to pre-empt the report (due in mid-January) and issue their own 13 page screed later today focusing blame for the crisis on…Fannie and Freddie, and no doubt the CRA too.

Let’s look at a few inconvenient facts. We had housing bubbles in the UK, Australia, Ireland, Spain, Iceland, Latvia, Canada, and a lot of Eastern Europe. Can we blame the CRA and Fannie and Freddie for that?

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2...ift-blame-from-banks.html

lucysmom  posted on  2011-04-06   20:20:05 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: lucysmom (#88) (Edited)

The irony is that they did NOT blame the CRA.

war  posted on  2011-04-06   20:22:53 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#98. To: war (#90)

The irony is that they did NOT blame the CRA.

Not in the report but obviously the memo has been circulated.

lucysmom  posted on  2011-04-06   20:41:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#108. To: lucysmom (#98)

Not in the report but obviously the memo has been circulated.

I'm not surprised. $300bln of CRA mortgages outstanding...94% performing...but it's "their" fault.

war  posted on  2011-04-07   7:28:10 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#111. To: war (#108)

I'm not surprised. $300bln of CRA mortgages outstanding...94% performing...but it's "their" fault.

Ron Paul and the Austrian school people don't like the CRA.

lucysmom  posted on  2011-04-07   9:22:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 111.

#112. To: lucysmom (#111)

What Austrian economists won't tell you is that the end goal of that School of Thought is NO government.

war  posted on  2011-04-07 09:27:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 111.

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