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Title: States broke? Maybe they cut taxes too much
Source:
McClatchy Newspapers
URL Source: http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/03/ ... oke-maybe-they-cut-taxes.html#
Published: Mar 29, 2011
Author: TONY PUGH
Post Date: 2011-04-01 11:12:58 by lucysmom
Keywords: taxes, economy
Views: 54408
Comments: 56
In his new budget proposal, Ohio Republican Gov. John Kasich calls for extending a generous 21 percent cut in state income taxes. The measure was originally part of a sweeping 2005 tax overhaul that abolished the state corporate income tax and phased out a business property tax. The tax cuts were supposed to stimulate Ohio's economy and create jobs. But that didn't happen once the economy tanked. Instead, the changes ended up costing Ohio more than $2 billion a year in lost tax revenue; money that would go a long way toward closing the state's $8 billion budget gap for fiscal year 2012. "At least half of our current budget problem is a direct result of the tax changes we made in 2005. A lot of people don't want to hear that, but that's the reality. Much of our pain is self-inflicted," said Zach Schiller, research director at Policy Matters Ohio, a liberal government-research group in Cleveland. snip Before California's Proposition 13 triggered a nationwide tax-cut revolt in the late 1970s, state and local taxes accounted for nearly 13 percent of personal income in 1972, Bartik said. By 2007, it was 11 percent. State corporate income taxes have fallen as well. Once nearly 10 percent of all state tax revenue in the late '70s, they accounted for only 5.4 percent in 2010. "It's a dying tax, killed off by thousands of credits, deductions, abatements and incentive packages," according to 2010 congressional testimony by Joseph Henchman, the director of state projects at the Tax Foundation, a conservative tax-research center. snip Business tax reductions may be overrated as an economic stimulus because they're so low on the totem pole of expenses. For most businesses, the cost of labor is probably 15 times the cost of all state and local taxes, said Bartik of the Upjohn Institute.
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#1. To: lucysmom (#0)
So I'm curious as to who or what they are trying to blame for this problem??? Or is this a roundabout way to say Kasich is doing the wrong thing by eliminating collective bargaining for state and local employees in Ohio...... Things that make you go hhhmmmmmm........
"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning
It might help to read the full article.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
I did, I was just curious as to the intent of it.......
"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning
The article exposes the myth that tax cuts are the solution to every economic ill, using as examples state tax cuts that have not produced more jobs and larger tax revenues due to economic growth. It suggests that state budget deficits are the result of tax cuts that have not produced the promised growth in revenues.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
I just wondered.... It actually was Kasichs predecessor (D)- Ted Strickland who implemented all of those tax cuts the article talked about, or at least he's the one taking credit for doing them..... he he he.... The article also seems to forget that the unemployment rate is high nationwide and maybe that's why states have a budget deficit... I don't think you can collect much in the way of taxes from people on unemployment benefits..... But Nancy Pelosi seems to think those unemployed people are growing the economy... Ohio alone has lost over 600,000 jobs in the last 10 years alone....... A lot of them auto manufacturer jobs....... Or maybe it's because we have so many illegal aliens siphoning off our tax dollars, Medicaid dollars, Social Security dollars????? So how do you propose to fix the unemployment problems when you can't get companies to come to your state or stay in your state cause they know they are going to be taxed to death????? And why is it that most businesses that are moving overseas are doing so because the tax rates are lower there?????? It sounds like the authors proposed fix is to tax the hell out of everyone left and piss on the consequences..... That sound about right???? Or is maybe because he has no clue what he's talking about??????
"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning
Tax rates in China are not low enough to explain its attractiveness to manufacturers, but wages are. Nevada ranks 49th for state and local taxes collected so why isn't Nevada booming?
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
Maybe they spend too much...? To post such an asinine article demonstrates that you'd rather die than think. Bimbo.
Socialist ass-hats think "There will be no more money when the U.S. dollar has no value, until that time we can keep printing more." And yes, that IS from LF's answer to Ben Bernanke, go65, leading disfunctional and delusional socialist of the forum. "You want me to kill THE ENEMIES of Jappos, I'll kill THE ENEMIES of Jappos, Rebs, or Sioux, or Cheyenne... For 500 bucks a month I'll kill whoever you want. But keep one thing in mind: I'd happily kill you for free." Algren, "The Last Samurai" Bimbo. It would be more impressive in the positive sense if you could formulate a coherent rebuttal rather than go for the easy insult, but then that would take thought, wouldn't it. "Hush Bimbo, low wages are good for you." a pole
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
Full of union thugs and reject Liberals.......
"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning
Nevada is a "right to work" state, or as the locals say "right to starve" state.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
The "coherent rebuttal" was the first line of my initial response. That you glossed over it, isn't the least bit surprising. The easy insult came AFTER my "coherent rebuttal." And believe me, where easy insults are concerned, you're the easiest. Which, of course, is why you are so despised on conservative forums.
Socialist ass-hats think "There will be no more money when the U.S. dollar has no value, until that time we can keep printing more." And yes, that IS from LF's answer to Ben Bernanke, go65, leading disfunctional and delusional socialist of the forum. "You want me to kill THE ENEMIES of Jappos, I'll kill THE ENEMIES of Jappos, Rebs, or Sioux, or Cheyenne... For 500 bucks a month I'll kill whoever you want. But keep one thing in mind: I'd happily kill you for free." Algren, "The Last Samurai" How about blaming those people that state that cutting taxes stimulates the economy, and that creates more revenue. That has never been proven to work and in fact under Clinton, taxes were raised and the economy grew to record levels. So why do you still worship at this trickle down model that does not work?
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
Maybe they spend too much...? That was it? I'd call that going for the easy shot. And believe me, where easy insults are concerned, you're the easiest. Which, of course, is why you are so despised on conservative forums. I'd get worried if you loved me.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
Go to a store with $10.00 in your purse and ask me if it's a "myth" that you can't buy a Plasma TV... UNLESS you're the goob. In that case you merely print up more "money" of course and back end the tab. What don't you and the rest of the Commies get about NOT over-drafting a checking account? DUH.
Over-regulation = strangulation of business growth. Bloated bureaucracies = strangulation of taxpayers Reduced tax revenues = Reduced bloated goobermint. 2 + 2 = 4.
The Republican position seems to be that if ten bucks won't buy a plasma TV, the TV is priced too high so next time they walk into the store with eight bucks.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
Bloated bureaucracies = strangulation of taxpayers Reduced tax revenues = Reduced bloated goobermint. Sounds good, however it just doesn't seem to be true in real life.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
Bloated bureaucracies = strangulation of taxpayers Reduced tax revenues = Reduced bloated goobermint. under-regulation = See Wall Street compliant bureaucracies = Wall Street not investigated Reduced tax revenues = See Libertarian paradise Somalia.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
I don't think you can collect much in the way of taxes from people on unemployment benefits..... But Nancy Pelosi seems to think those unemployed people are growing the economy... Ohio alone has lost over 600,000 jobs in the last 10 years alone....... A lot of them auto manufacturer jobs....... Or maybe it's because we have so many illegal aliens siphoning off our tax dollars, Medicaid dollars, Social Security dollars????? Great points - every single one of them. Wealthy Leftist elites are THE most detached-from-reality idiots on the planet. That Pelosi as "leader" of the Dem House for four years openly states that unemployment insurance is akin to "economic growth" says volumes about the credibility of the Democrat Party. That Democrats endorse subsidizing 30 million Illegal Invaders with citizenry-paid tax dollars says volumes about the credibility of the Democrat Party. That over 80 members of the Democrat Party are also members of the "Progressive" (Communist) Caucus" say all we need to know about these people - they are TRAITORS. THIS says volumes about the credibility of the Democrat Party. Frankly, if John Boehner and the Republican leadership are going to continue turning a blind eye to the treason of the Democrat Party, this says volumes about the credibility Republican Party. The treasonous charade must end.
States are broke because they overspent on social issues, giving money to people who would never be able to pay anything back ,and sending the taxpayers out of the state in frustration. Dwindling tax base was of course the problem, but the causation was not in allowing people , WHO WORKED for THE MONEY, Keep a little more of their own money.
"Blah, blah, blah....I am a Commie Apologist....blah, blah, blah....I am a Commie Shill...blah, blah, blah....Please take me seriously..." Sorry - Your account is being closed due to insufficient brain cell funds.
How can I possibly take your post seriously? No wonder you worship at the altar of Pelosi and Marx.
To post such an asinine article demonstrates that you'd rather die than think. Bimbo. When 2 + 2 = 3 to these people, it's time to move on. To quote Charlton Heston is 'Planet of the Apes': IT'S A MAD HOUSE....A MAAAAAAAD HOUSE!!!
So I reduced you to a blithering idiot who can't retort back in a coherent way. Mission accomplished.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
meh...
A friend's daughter is such a person. At 25 she isn't self supporting, still lives at home, and now the program she's a part of is being cut. She's retarded and has a seizure disorder.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
She's retarded and has a seizure disorder. ``If they would rather die,'' said Scrooge, ``they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population. A Christmas Carol
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
She's retarded and has a seizure disorder. Units are only worthwhile if they are productive. There is no other reason under God to be born in this world.
"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"
So are you really sure about that????? Here you may or may not like this but....... (Quote) "With four years of data on the current economic recovery (extending back to the Bush Administration), it is now possible to tally up the scorecard and compare the Bush/Clinton recovery that started in 1991 with the Reagan recovery that began in 1982.[1] President Clinton has boasted that his policies have spurred economic growth, added jobs, and helped the middle class. However, the data show that the Bush/Clinton recovery is weak compared to the Reagan recovery along several important measures. Both economic growth and job creation in the current recovery lag behind the Reagan recovery by two full years. The middle class is suffering an actual loss in real median family income, while during the Reagan recovery it gained. Moreover, tax revenues increased more rapidly under Reagan's tax cuts than under the Bush/Clinton tax increases. The most outstanding policy differences between the two recoveries are in the realm of tax policy. Reagan instituted across-the-board reductions in tax rates, while Bush and Clinton both pushed massive tax increases. The most disturbing conclusion is that the 1990 and 1993 tax increases have cost Americans far more than the extra earnings collected by the IRS; they have cost the economy at least two years of growth. Comparing the two recoveries: Real GDP grew more in five years under Reagan (23 percent cumulative growth) than it is projected to grow in seven years under Bush/Clinton (21 percent cumulative growth). After four years, 4 million more jobs were created under Reagan than under Bush/Clinton. Federal revenues, adjusted for inflation, grew much faster under Reagan (33 percent cumulative growth) than projected under Bush/Clinton (20 percent cumulative growth). Real per capita disposable income grew more in two years under Reagan than in all four years combined thus far in the Bush/Clinton recovery (8.2 percent versus 7.8 percent). Median family income grew in all of the first three recovery years under Reagan, compared to three consecutive declines under Bush/Clinton. In other words, during the economic expansion following Reagan's tax cuts, the economy grew faster, experienced stronger revenue growth, created more jobs, and saw more rapid income growth than the current expansion under the high tax policies of Presidents Bush and Clinton". (Unquote)
"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning
Well it looks like the "Freshman" congressmen/women are starting to put the screws to his nutsack... They are starting to vote against his "peanut" spending cuts....
"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning
Reagan's tax cuts were coupled with lots of closed loopholes. A big one was the termination of interest deduction on credit cards, directly leading to home equity loans as a new way to borrow and get a tax break too. With homes being used as the largest used cash cow. Also directly leading to the housing bubble bursting that we now see.
"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"
So what you're saying it "WASN"T" because of all of the mortgages given to people who couldn't/wouldn't pay them back??
"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning
Yea, I am 100% sure because the economic data shows that the historic ups and downs of the economy had NOTHING to do with tax policies. Bush cut taxes and the economy and revenues continued to fall. Clinton raised taxes and revenue increased as the economy was booming.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
Well, I would just as soon get rid of some government jobs, and give all that money we would save, to your friend's child. But I am not God and I don't get to decide that stuff. Lets cut welfare to all able bodied people, and help everyone with a developmental disability. I am perfectly fine with that idea.
The people rule here and I hope they decide to increase welfare assistance to those that need it and expand the program.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
Liar. It is ALWAYS proven to work. The Godfather of the contemporary Democrat party said it best: There's a good reason why I call you "gobsheit."
Socialist ass-hats think "There will be no more money when the U.S. dollar has no value, until that time we can keep printing more." And yes, that IS from LF's answer to Ben Bernanke, go65, leading disfunctional and delusional socialist of the forum. "You want me to kill THE ENEMIES of Jappos, I'll kill THE ENEMIES of Jappos, Rebs, or Sioux, or Cheyenne... For 500 bucks a month I'll kill whoever you want. But keep one thing in mind: I'd happily kill you for free." Algren, "The Last Samurai" I worked in welfare. I think that would be pretty stupid to give out more of it. I don't have to worry about mo'welfare impacting my community, we all work around here... so good luck with that.
To quote Charlton Heston is 'Planet of the Apes': IT'S A MAD HOUSE....A MAAAAAAAD HOUSE!!! It always amazes me how so many perpetually-stupid people can be so proud of their stupidity. It's like watching the special olympics... Socialist ass-hats think "There will be no more money when the U.S. dollar has no value, until that time we can keep printing more." And yes, that IS from LF's answer to Ben Bernanke, go65, leading disfunctional and delusional socialist of the forum. "You want me to kill THE ENEMIES of Jappos, I'll kill THE ENEMIES of Jappos, Rebs, or Sioux, or Cheyenne... For 500 bucks a month I'll kill whoever you want. But keep one thing in mind: I'd happily kill you for free." Algren, "The Last Samurai" Socialists are asshats for being greedy and lazy- but people with special needs are not asshats. Most of them are lovely people, and kind hearted- and very gentle. I am sad at your comparison.
I see your point. And I happen to agree. You'll get over it. Socialists tax us to death, then- after they've taken their "cut"- distribute the money to those with "special needs." Without the socialist government squeezing us for >50% of our money, we would have the CHOICE of which charities, or "special needs" people, we wish to help. It is our choice, not theirs. It is MY choice in how I choose to spend my money, not yours, not the government' choice, not gobsheit. Anyone- and I do mean ANYONE- who dares to speak out against this oppressive monster that our government has become, is somehow being "politically incorrect," or worse, "unpatriotic." I choose to ignore such jingoism, and speak plainly. I refuse to be muzzled by the PC-crowd, either directly or indirectly, through their attempts to determine what is or is not acceptable. Ironic, that liberals attempt to curb all opinion which contradicts their own, yet when faced with implacable realities, resort to moral relativism, as a "head in the sand" defense. As a well-trained sheeple, you tell me that you're "sad" at my comparison. Why? Because you've been brainwashed into hypersensitivity. I was that way, about 15 years ago... until a particular day that made me realize what was happening (another story, for another day). You'll either wake up, and realize what's happened to you, or you won't. Either way, I simply don't care.
Socialist ass-hats think "There will be no more money when the U.S. dollar has no value, until that time we can keep printing more." And yes, that IS from LF's answer to Ben Bernanke, go65, leading disfunctional and delusional socialist of the forum. "You want me to kill THE ENEMIES of Jappos, I'll kill THE ENEMIES of Jappos, Rebs, or Sioux, or Cheyenne... For 500 bucks a month I'll kill whoever you want. But keep one thing in mind: I'd happily kill you for free." Algren, "The Last Samurai" Lets cut welfare to all able bodied people, and help everyone with a developmental disability. I am perfectly fine with that idea. People with government jobs actually get up off the couch, go to work, take care of their families, mow their lawns, and pay taxes. My friend's child doesn't need money, she needs the social interaction and work her program provides. It gives her a purpose and makes her the happy, delightful person she is. That's cool. How about providing enough jobs to go around and health care to get or keep them able bodied?
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
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#2. To: CZ82 (#1)
So I'm curious as to who or what they are trying to blame for this problem???
#3. To: lucysmom (#2)
It might help to read the full article.
#4. To: CZ82 (#3)
I did, I was just curious as to the intent of it.......
#5. To: lucysmom (#4)
#6. To: CZ82 (#5)
And why is it that most businesses that are moving overseas are doing so because the tax rates are lower there??????
#7. To: lucysmom (#0)
States broke? Maybe they cut taxes too much
#8. To: Capitalist Eric (#7)
To post such an asinine article demonstrates that you'd rather die than think.
#9. To: lucysmom (#6)
Nevada ranks 49th for state and local taxes collected so why isn't Nevada booming?
#10. To: CZ82 (#9)
Full of union thugs and reject Liberals.......
#11. To: lucysmom (#8)
It would be more impressive in the positive sense if you could formulate a coherent rebuttal rather than go for the easy insult...
#12. To: CZ82, lucysmom, Capitalist Eric, war (#1)
So I'm curious as to who or what they are trying to blame for this problem???
#13. To: Capitalist Eric (#11)
The "coherent rebuttal" was the first line of my initial response.
#14. To: lucysmom (#4)
The article exposes the myth that tax cuts are the solution to every economic ill...
#15. To: lucysmom (#4)
It [the non-sensical propaganda] suggests that state budget deficits are the result of tax cuts that have not produced the promised growth in revenues.
#16. To: Liberator (#14)
Go to a store with $10.00 in your purse and ask me if it's a "myth" that you can't buy a Plasma TV... UNLESS you're the goob. In that case you merely print up more "money" of course and back end the tab.
#17. To: Liberator (#15)
Over-regulation = strangulation of business growth.
#18. To: Liberator, lucysmom (#15)
Over-regulation = strangulation of business growth.
#19. To: CZ82, lucysmom (#5)
The article also seems to forget that the unemployment rate is high nationwide and maybe that's why states have a budget deficit...
#20. To: lucysmom (#0)
#21. To: Godwinson (#18)
On 2011-04-04 12:46:18, Godwinson wrote:
#22. To: lucysmom (#16)
The Republican position seems to be that if ten bucks won't buy a plasma TV, the TV is priced too high so next time they walk into the store with eight bucks.
#23. To: Capitalist Eric, lucysmom (#7)
Maybe they spend too much...?
#24. To: Liberator (#21)
#25. To: Godwinson (#24)
#26. To: diva betsy ross (#20)
...giving money to people who would never be able to pay anything back...
#27. To: lucysmom, diva betsy ross (#26)
A friend's daughter is such a person. At 25 she isn't self supporting, still lives at home, and now the program she's a part of is being cut.
#28. To: lucysmom (#26)
A friend's daughter is such a person. At 25 she isn't self supporting, still lives at home, and now the program she's a part of is being cut.
#29. To: Godwinson (#12)
How about blaming those people that state that cutting taxes stimulates the economy, and that creates more revenue. That has never been proven to work and in fact under Clinton, taxes were raised and the economy grew to record levels.
#30. To: Liberator (#19)
Frankly, if John Boehner and the Republican leadership are going to continue turning a blind eye to the treason of the Democrat Party, this says volumes about the credibility Republican Party.
#31. To: CZ82 (#29)
The most outstanding policy differences between the two recoveries are in the realm of tax policy. Reagan instituted across-the-board reductions in tax rates, while Bush and Clinton both pushed massive tax increases. The most disturbing conclusion is that the 1990 and 1993 tax increases have cost Americans far more than the extra earnings collected by the IRS; they have cost the economy at least two years of growth. Comparing the two recoveries:
#32. To: Rek (#31)
Also directly leading to the housing bubble bursting that we now see.
#33. To: CZ82 (#29)
So are you really sure about that?????
#34. To: lucysmom (#26)
#35. To: diva betsy ross, lucysmom (#34)
. But I am not God and I don't get to decide that stuff.
#36. To: Godwinson, CZ82 (#29)
How about blaming those people that state that cutting taxes stimulates the economy, and that creates more revenue. That has never been proven to work and in fact under Clinton, taxes were raised and the economy grew to record levels.
"In short, it is a paradoxical truth that ... the soundest way to raise the revenues in the long run is to cut the rates now. The experience of a number of European countries and Japan have borne this out. This country's own experience with tax reduction in 1954 has borne this out. And the reason is that only full employment can balance the budget, and tax reduction can pave the way to that employment. The purpose of cutting taxes now is not to incur a budget deficit, but to achieve the more prosperous, expanding economy which can bring a budget surplus."
– John F. Kennedy, Nov. 20, 1962, news conference
#37. To: Godwinson (#35)
(Edited)
#38. To: Liberator (#23)
When 2 + 2 = 3 to these people, it's time to move on.
#39. To: Capitalist Eric (#38)
#40. To: diva betsy ross (#39)
but people with special needs are not asshats.
I am sad at your comparison.
#41. To: diva betsy ross (#34)
Well, I would just as soon get rid of some government jobs, and give all that money we would save, to your friend's child. But I am not God and I don't get to decide that stuff.
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