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Corrupt Government
See other Corrupt Government Articles

Title: Nation of Takers, Not Makers~more work for govt. than manufacturing, farming, fishing, forestry, mining & utilities combined
Source: WSJ
URL Source: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100 ... 4050204576219073867182108.html
Published: Apr 1, 2011
Author: STEPHEN MOORE
Post Date: 2011-04-01 09:06:01 by Happy Quanzaa
Keywords: Obama-doma-ding-dong
Views: 193269
Comments: 226

We've Become a Nation of Takers, Not Makers

More Americans work for the government than in manufacturing, farming, fishing, forestry, mining and utilities combined.

If you want to understand better why so many states—from New York to Wisconsin to California—are teetering on the brink of bankruptcy, consider this depressing statistic: Today in America there are nearly twice as many people working for the government (22.5 million) than in all of manufacturing (11.5 million). This is an almost exact reversal of the situation in 1960, when there were 15 million workers in manufacturing and 8.7 million collecting a paycheck from the government.

It gets worse. More Americans work for the government than work in construction, farming, fishing, forestry, manufacturing, mining and utilities combined. We have moved decisively from a nation of makers to a nation of takers. Nearly half of the $2.2 trillion cost of state and local governments is the $1 trillion-a-year tab for pay and benefits of state and local employees. Is it any wonder that so many states and cities cannot pay their bills?

Every state in America today except for two—Indiana and Wisconsin—has more government workers on the payroll than people manufacturing industrial goods. Consider California, which has the highest budget deficit in the history of the states. The not-so Golden State now has an incredible 2.4 million government employees—twice as many as people at work in manufacturing. New Jersey has just under two-and-a-half as many government employees as manufacturers. Florida's ratio is more than 3 to 1. So is New York's.

Even Michigan, at one time the auto capital of the world, and Pennsylvania, once the steel capital, have more government bureaucrats than people making things. The leaders in government hiring are Wyoming and New Mexico, which have hired more than six government workers for every manufacturing worker.

Now it is certainly true that many states have not typically been home to traditional manufacturing operations. Iowa and Nebraska are farm states, for example. But in those states, there are at least five times more government workers than farmers. West Virginia is the mining capital of the world, yet it has at least three times more government workers than miners. New York is the financial capital of the world—at least for now. That sector employs roughly 670,000 New Yorkers. That's less than half of the state's 1.48 million government employees.

Don't expect a reversal of this trend anytime soon. Surveys of college graduates are finding that more and more of our top minds want to work for the government. Why? Because in recent years only government agencies have been hiring, and because the offer of near lifetime security is highly valued in these times of economic turbulence. When 23-year-olds aren't willing to take career risks, we have a real problem on our hands. Sadly, we could end up with a generation of Americans who want to work at the Department of Motor Vehicles.

The employment trends described here are explained in part by hugely beneficial productivity improvements in such traditional industries as farming, manufacturing, financial services and telecommunications. These produce far more output per worker than in the past. The typical farmer, for example, is today at least three times more productive than in 1950.

Where are the productivity gains in government? Consider a core function of state and local governments: schools. Over the period 1970-2005, school spending per pupil, adjusted for inflation, doubled, while standardized achievement test scores were flat. Over roughly that same time period, public-school employment doubled per student, according to a study by researchers at the University of Washington. That is what economists call negative productivity.

But education is an industry where we measure performance backwards: We gauge school performance not by outputs, but by inputs. If quality falls, we say we didn't pay teachers enough or we need smaller class sizes or newer schools. If education had undergone the same productivity revolution that manufacturing has, we would have half as many educators, smaller school budgets, and higher graduation rates and test scores.

The same is true of almost all other government services. Mass transit spends more and more every year and yet a much smaller share of Americans use trains and buses today than in past decades. One way that private companies spur productivity is by firing underperforming employees and rewarding excellence. In government employment, tenure for teachers and near lifetime employment for other civil servants shields workers from this basic system of reward and punishment. It is a system that breeds mediocrity, which is what we've gotten.

Most reasonable steps to restrain public-sector employment costs are smothered by the unions. Study after study has shown that states and cities could shave 20% to 40% off the cost of many services—fire fighting, public transportation, garbage collection, administrative functions, even prison operations—through competitive contracting to private providers. But unions have blocked many of those efforts. Public employees maintain that they are underpaid relative to equally qualified private-sector workers, yet they are deathly afraid of competitive bidding for government services.

President Obama says we have to retool our economy to "win the future." The only way to do that is to grow the economy that makes things, not the sector that takes things.

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#45. To: lucysmom (#43)

It looks like German auto workers are paid significantly more than American.

I'll bet they didn't factor in (COL) cost of living in Germany???? It's expensive there, very expensive......

But you have to admit they do make a good product, better than American brand cars....

"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning

CZ82  posted on  2011-04-01   19:54:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: CZ82 (#45)

I'll bet they didn't factor in (COL) cost of living in Germany???? It's expensive there, very expensive......

And cost of living isn't a factor in American wages?

You seem to think American workers should produce a German quality car while earning Chinese wages.

You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand

lucysmom  posted on  2011-04-01   20:06:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: lucysmom (#44) (Edited)

How about sharing some of your successful, pioneering projects in economics.

I'll share one of my successful, pioneering experiences in business instead.

I was the VP of Engineering and a member of the Executive Team at a startup company that we grew from 0 employees to 6,500 employees in 7 years. The average salary was about $90,000 plus benefits.

How many jobs have you created? How many of those were high paying, high technology jobs???

I started a new technology company in 2009. My wife also started a new services company a few months later. We both started these businesses at the bottom of the Great Recession. It's been difficult. But we are not complaining. We are moving forward. Come ask us in 3 to 5 years how many jobs we've created. It will be a bunch.

What will you do over the next 3 to 5 years, other than bellyache about the success of others?????


"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899

jwpegler  posted on  2011-04-01   20:11:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: lucysmom (#46) (Edited)

You seem to think American workers should produce a German quality car while earning Chinese wages.

American workers ARE producing German quality cars at German auto plants in America, without the UAW's help. All of these plants are in right to work states.

It's just a fact.


"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899

jwpegler  posted on  2011-04-01   20:12:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: jwpegler (#47)

I started a new technology company in 2009. My wife also started a new services company a few months later. We both started these businesses at the bottom of the Great Recession.

Right. You created jobs in India as I recall, and your wife does day care (who hasn't?).

You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand

lucysmom  posted on  2011-04-01   21:43:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: jwpegler, CZ82, lucysmom (#41) (Edited)

maybe you shouldn't pay somebody $30 per hour to put screws in a dashboard when any idiot you bring in off the street can do that job for a lot less Yep, but it did work for 25 years or so when the entire rest of the world was destroyed after WWII. But it doesn't work any longer.

You again prove my observation. Over and over be it on Internet forums, or talk radio or written words, so called conservatives and their parrots keep return to this theme that a segment of the population - always a working class segment - makes too much money for doing manual labor. But they go nuts when there is any talk about how executives are compensated.

I even remember not to long ago on this forum I said that college athletes of sports that make billions in revenue for schools and TV should be paid a semi- pro wage and again I got this same line that the athletes should be happy with what they get (free education/room & bored) and not complain or rock the boat.

The oligarchs have produced this envy between slightly upper middle class vs lower middle class vs the poor.....

"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.

Godwinson  posted on  2011-04-01   21:44:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: jwpegler, lucysmom (#48)

American workers ARE producing German quality cars at German auto plants in America, without the UAW's help. All of these plants are in right to work states.

False. The majority of German cars in America are produced in assembly plants. The actual fabrik (manufacturing) of parts are imported. Americans then just bolt them together. It's cheaper assembling cars in America than bringing in whole cars.

"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.

Godwinson  posted on  2011-04-01   21:48:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: jwpegler (#37)

I've been a Vice President at a large corporation and a Chief Technology Officer at another company. I've had customer, revenue, and innovation responsibility over thousands of people across the world.

I've also run a small business.

I ALWAYS SUCCEED.

Sounds like you bounce around jobs a lot.

"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.

Godwinson  posted on  2011-04-01   21:51:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: jwpegler (#35)

I don't care how clueless American car companies are. I would still protect them against free trade globalization which the GOP supports.

"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.

Godwinson  posted on  2011-04-01   21:53:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: jwpegler (#47)

It's been difficult. But we are not complaining.

Actually you complain all the time about government, taxes and unions.

You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand

lucysmom  posted on  2011-04-01   22:17:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: Godwinson (#53)

I don't care how clueless American car companies are. I would still protect them against free trade globalization which the GOP supports.

And the result will be high prices for poor quality.


"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899

jwpegler  posted on  2011-04-01   22:30:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: lucysmom (#54) (Edited)

Actually you complain all the time about government, taxes and unions.

The difference between you and I is that you complain when you can't force others to hand you things, while I complain when others force me to hand you things.


"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899

jwpegler  posted on  2011-04-01   22:37:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: Godwinson (#52) (Edited)

Sounds like you bounce around jobs a lot.

I don't have jobs. I have a career.

It's incomprehensible to me how clueless you really are. You HAVE to be a school teacher. You can just tell.


"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899

jwpegler  posted on  2011-04-01   22:42:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: Godwinson (#51)

The majority of German cars in America are produced in assembly plants

As opposed to conjuring them up in your text books?

WTF are you talking about???

Bozo.

ROTFLMAO.


"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899

jwpegler  posted on  2011-04-01   22:46:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: lucysmom (#49)

who hasn't?

You haven't. You don't have the initiative and drive to start any kind of business.


"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899

jwpegler  posted on  2011-04-01   22:49:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: lucysmom (#46)

And cost of living isn't a factor in American wages?

You seem to think American workers should produce a German quality car while earning Chinese wages.

It sure is in Liberal $hitholes all up and down both coasts, that have tax rates double what it is where I live ....... but then what do you expect from them??????

Well if the American cars was German quality then I would expect the workers to get paid somewhat more...... but the quality isn't so there you go....

Just to put in perspective what the Germans make.... I make almost the same amount (bennys and all) but live in an area 1/2 as expensive. So they really aren't making that much money if you get right down to it......

Putting a car together on an assembly line doesn't take a lot of brains, most of the larger parts are already assembled somewhere else. For instance the frame or unibody is made in one place, the engine in another and the doors and other major components made somewhere else...... It's kinda like putting a puzzle together that somebody else has numbered for you, the guy who figured out the assembly line order..... Now that guy is the one who deserves his 6 figure salary, he is the one with the brains and special training...... not screw gun boy........

"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning

CZ82  posted on  2011-04-01   23:17:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: jwpegler (#47)

What will you do over the next 3 to 5 years, other than bellyache about the success of others?????

Flip burgers!!!!!

"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning

CZ82  posted on  2011-04-01   23:20:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: jwpegler (#59)

You haven't. You don't have the initiative and drive to start any kind of business.

Well now we know you're not psychic.

You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand

lucysmom  posted on  2011-04-01   23:42:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: jwpegler, lucysmom (#58)

The majority of German cars in America are produced in assembly plants WTF are you talking about???

It seems your claim to knowledge is limited. Assembly plants are not manufacturing plants. Assembly plants just bolt together the parts manufacturing elsewhere.

"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.

Godwinson  posted on  2011-04-02   11:20:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: CZ82, lucysmom, jwpegler (#60)

Putting a car together on an assembly line doesn't take a lot of brains.....if the American cars was German quality then I would expect the workers to get paid somewhat more.

Have you noticed lucy, they don't deny that their so called conservative outlook wants workers to be paid less and in their opinion the American worker is inferior and should be paid less?

"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.

Godwinson  posted on  2011-04-02   11:23:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: Godwinson (#64)

Have you noticed lucy, they don't deny that their so called conservative outlook wants workers to be paid less and in their opinion the American worker is inferior and should be paid less?

We didn't say inferior, you did..... But if you think the term does actually apply then go ahead and use it.....

It all boils down to being paid for what you know!!!! (not who YOU blow like in the world you live in)..... There, is that simplistic enough for you????

I guess I'll ask you a stupid question then..... who deserves to make more money the engineer who designed the car that has a 4-8 year college degree, or the guy with the screw gun and 15 minutes training???????

Simple question with only one answer....... (I have $20 on this with Stone).

"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning

CZ82  posted on  2011-04-02   11:36:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: Godwinson (#64)

Have you noticed lucy, they don't deny that their so called conservative outlook wants workers to be paid less and in their opinion the American worker is inferior and should be paid less?

Yep. They are like an abusive spouse verbally attacking the worth of the mate they wish to dominate and control.

You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand

lucysmom  posted on  2011-04-02   11:46:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: CZ82 (#65) (Edited)

I guess I'll ask you a stupid question then..... who deserves to make more money the engineer who designed the car that has a 4-8 year college degree, or the guy with the screw gun and 15 minutes training???????

I don't believe anyone here thinks that all people should earn the same amount of money without regard to the job done or preparation required to do that job. The guy with the screw gun may not "deserve" to travel through life first cabin, however he does "deserve" wages sufficient to provide both subsistence and dignity for himself and his family.

"Necessitous men are not free men." Liberty requires opportunity to make a living - a living decent according to the standard of the time, a living which gives man not only enough to live by, but something to live for.

www.austincc.edu/lpatrick...fdr36acceptancespeech.htm

You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand

lucysmom  posted on  2011-04-02   12:12:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: lucysmom, CZ82 (#67)

I guess I'll ask you a stupid question then..... who deserves to make more money the engineer who designed the car that has a 4-8 year college degree, or the guy with the screw gun and 15 minutes training???????

Again, with that statement CZ82 is showing is disdain for workers who are not of the "owner or executive" class. The worker should be a wage slave who is lucky those above him are allowing him to breathe the same air as they do. In many cases, like Joe the Plumber, these people delude themselves into thinking they are part of the upper class or will be soon enough so they support this unequal system because in their minds they will someday get there themselves and want to benefit from wage slave labor also.

What is lost is the old Henry Ford ideal where he wanted his employees to be able to earn enough to also afford to but his cars.

"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.

Godwinson  posted on  2011-04-02   12:32:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: jwpegler, lucysmom (#59)

You haven't. You don't have the initiative and drive to start any kind of business.

Donald Trump.... is that you posting on this little backwater chat forum with 13 posters?

"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"

Rek  posted on  2011-04-02   12:36:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: Godwinson (#64)

Have you noticed lucy, they don't deny that their so called conservative outlook wants workers to be paid less and in their opinion the American worker is inferior and should be paid less?

Yet been proven over and over that American workers and professionals consistently are the most hard working, efficient and responsible in the world. The only problem to the corps, they want the pay to go with it.

"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"

Rek  posted on  2011-04-02   12:42:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: Godwinson, CZ82 (#68)

In many cases, like Joe the Plumber, these people delude themselves into thinking they are part of the upper class or will be soon enough so they support this unequal system because in their minds they will someday get there themselves and want to benefit from wage slave labor also.

What is ignored by CZ's question is how valuable is the engineer's design without the guy with the screw gun? How many cars can the engineer build by himself?

You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand

lucysmom  posted on  2011-04-02   12:51:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: Rek (#69)

Donald Trump.... is that you posting on this little backwater chat forum with 13 posters?

LOL!

You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand

lucysmom  posted on  2011-04-02   12:53:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: Godwinson (#68)

Again, with that statement CZ82 is showing is disdain for workers who are not of the "owner or executive" class.

I'm not an executive or an owner, I'm in the worker class.... if you paid any attention to what I've said in my posts over the last month then you would know that..... but the Liberal mantra doesn't allow learning or listening does it.....

What is lost is the old Henry Ford ideal where he wanted his employees to be able to earn enough to also afford to buy his cars.

They still can......

My point is and I know it's lost on you but......... being paid for what you know encourages people to get an education to better themselves. If they really want wages "Sufficient to provide both sustenance and dignity for himself and his family" then they will do so, if not then that's their business not mine..... or yours for that matter.....

I started out working in a restaurant when I was 16 making $1.90 an hour... after a few months I figured out I didn't want to be a cook/janitor my entire life making minimum wage .... I also realized I needed an education to make that happen, so I went and joined the military and I got one... It got me to where I am today and I'm happy with it..... So instead of being happy being stupid I did something about it.... anybody can do it.... even "Joe the Screw gun guy"....... If more people had the same outlook on life the Democrat party would have ceased to exist a long time ago..... and the world would be a better place..... But the Democrats don't believe in that and don't want you to be smart, they like you stupid so you'll vote for them.......

You learn alot of things when you actually live in the real world versus a dream world.... try it sometime you might like it......

"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning

CZ82  posted on  2011-04-02   13:20:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: CZ82, Godwinson (#73)

So instead of being happy being stupid I did something about it.... anybody can do it....

You seem to conflate stupid with uneducated and smart with educated - they are not the same.

The world needs janitors so why shouldn't they be paid well enough to provide sustenance and dignity?

I'm having lunch this afternoon with a friend I've known since high school. His father was a janitor. On one janitor's income his dad supported his mother, brother, and him, bought a modest house, as well as a vacation home. When he retired, he had a pension and health benefits through his union.

Why would you wish to rob a janitor the dignity of knowing he had worked for his living and supported his family. You and your ilk would turn him into a looser who has to beg for his daily bread.

You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand

lucysmom  posted on  2011-04-02   13:56:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: lucysmom (#74)

You seem to conflate stupid with uneducated and smart with educated - they are not the same.

If you decide to sit on your butt, have no pride in yourself, not want to learn anything or demand something for nothing then you're stupid. If you have the inner drive to be something more than you are for yourself and or your family, and choose to learn something from past experiences/mistakes, .... then you're a smart person ... books alone can't make you smart.... if you don't have any common sense then the books you read are useless........ that simple enough for you????

"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning

CZ82  posted on  2011-04-02   16:34:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: lucysmom (#74)

Why would you wish to rob a janitor the dignity of knowing he had worked for his living and supported his family. You and your ilk would turn him into a looser who has to beg for his daily bread.

I have no doubt he made his money because he put in a honest days work for an honest days pay........ as it should be..... But I'd also bet he wasn't paid $30 an hour to sweep and mop either like "Screw gun Johnny".... if he was then somebody needs their head examined, kinda like the automobile executives.....

Going out and making an honest living I have no problem with... But making a living by making outrageous contract demands of the taxpayers who work harder and make less than them, that's what I have a problem with.....

But your side of the fence doesn't seem to have a problem with that.... do they?????

"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning

CZ82  posted on  2011-04-02   16:46:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: CZ82, lucysmom (#76) (Edited)

..... But I'd also bet he wasn't paid $30 an hour to sweep and mop either like "Screw gun Johnny".... if he was then somebody needs their head examined, kinda like the automobile executives.....

What so called conservatives like CZ82 are saying subconsciously is that they want an inequality in society - they want separation of classes - this maybe a hold over from segregationist times when the Dixiecrats migrated into the GOP or it could be just classic class-ism (the old upstairs, downstairs model) - but is clear they feel a threat when groups they see as being subservient ask for more.

"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.

Godwinson  posted on  2011-04-03   11:19:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: CZ82 (#76)

I have no doubt he made his money because he put in a honest days work for an honest days pay........ as it should be..... But I'd also bet he wasn't paid $30 an hour to sweep and mop either like "Screw gun Johnny".... if he was then somebody needs their head examined, kinda like the automobile executives.....

No, he wasn't paid $30 an hour back in the 60s. He was paid enough to own two homes and support his family on his paycheck alone in the SF bay area.

Going out and making an honest living I have no problem with... But making a living by making outrageous contract demands of the taxpayers who work harder and make less than them, that's what I have a problem with.....

"Making a living" is the operative phrase.

According to San Mateo County HR department pay for a custodian (2011) starts at $17.42 an hour and tops out at $21.77 an hour. The family income needed for self-sufficiency as of 2006 was $31.94 an hour for a family of three. (There is no allotment for savings and no room for unexpected needs or emergencies that can threaten to cut into any of the necessities, such as food or shelter.)

You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand

lucysmom  posted on  2011-04-03   12:44:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: Happy Quanzaa (#0)

"Republicans whine and Republicans bitch/Our rich are too poor and our poor are too rich. "

Skip Intro  posted on  2011-04-03   12:48:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: Godwinson (#77)

What so called conservatives like CZ82 are saying subconsciously is that they want an inequality in society - they want separation of classes - this maybe a hold over from segregationist times when the Dixiecrats migrated into the GOP or it could be just classic class-ism (the old upstairs, downstairs model) - but is clear they feel a threat when groups they see as being subservient ask for more.

What conservatives want is the nation that was founded. All men are CREATED equal, given equal opportunity to become what they will.

Not given their equal share by government, via taking away private property from someone else.

What you seem to want is socialism. Am I correct about that?

BTW: Are you the Destro that I keep hearing about?

We The People  posted on  2011-04-03   12:50:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: We The People, Godwinson (#80)

BTW: Are you the Destro that I keep hearing about?

Hmmm...

Liberator  posted on  2011-04-03   12:59:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: jwpegler, lucysmom (#47)

I'll share one of my successful, pioneering experiences in business instead.

I was the VP of Engineering and a member of the Executive Team at a startup company that we grew from 0 employees to 6,500 employees in 7 years. The average salary was about $90,000 plus benefits.

How many jobs have you created? How many of those were high paying, high technology jobs???

I started a new technology company in 2009. My wife also started a new services company a few months later. We both started these businesses at the bottom of the Great Recession. It's been difficult. But we are not complaining. We are moving forward. Come ask us in 3 to 5 years how many jobs we've created. It will be a bunch.

What will you do over the next 3 to 5 years, other than bellyache about the success of others?????

Excellent. Tip o' the cap.

Thanks for embodying the American spirit, dream, and determination. I'm sure you've accomplished your achievements despite the goobmint "help."

Liberator  posted on  2011-04-03   13:02:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: jwpegler, lucysmom (#12) (Edited)

You have the cause and effect backwards. The number of jobs have decreased because the government has become larded up with parasites draining the life out of the productive segment of the economy.

JW has this exactly right.

My sister-in-law - a middle-aged divorced mom of a 12 year old - has just finalized her second full year of collecting unemployment benefits. $450 per week. She hasn't lifted a finger to look for another job - and why not? It's a PAID VACATION.

More outrageous: Her ex-husband does NOT provide any alimony. Why isn't his daughter his responibility?

Instead, the STATE has became the sugar-daddy and source of ALL financial support.

The state provided FREE Medical and dental. FREE housing. FREE food stamp. And other subsidies. Then she complained because she didn't get the FREE-MONEY as a tax-windfall $2100 child-credit from the goobermint.

Bottomline: She is a professional parasite...

Now multiply this scenario out across American 30 million times.

P.S. - She's voted for Clinton and 0bama.

Liberator  posted on  2011-04-03   13:11:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: Godwinson (#77)

What so called conservatives like CZ82 are saying subconsciously is that they want an inequality in society - they want separation of classes - this maybe a hold over from segregationist times when the Dixiecrats migrated into the GOP or it could be just classic class-ism (the old upstairs, downstairs model) - but is clear they feel a threat when groups they see as being subservient ask for more.

If it were just a matter of inequality it wouldn't be nice, but it would be survivable.

Consider that in 2004 92,000 households is San Mateo County had an annual income of $49,999 or less - that is $16,443 short of what a family of three needs to be self suffiecent; The average worker who qualifies for HSA services earns $16.29 an hour, said HSA spokeswoman Catherine Barber.

www.smdailyjournal.com/article_preview.php?id=65709

Working families are already forced to beg in order to survive and what CZ82 and his ilk propose would not only remove aid that helps bridge the gap between what people are paid and what it takes to live, but lower wages to boot.

Toss in all the legislation the radical right would like to see enacted that would prevent couples controlling the size of their families and you've got third world standard of living right here in the USA.

You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand

lucysmom  posted on  2011-04-03   13:15:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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