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Corrupt Government
See other Corrupt Government Articles

Title: Nation of Takers, Not Makers~more work for govt. than manufacturing, farming, fishing, forestry, mining & utilities combined
Source: WSJ
URL Source: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100 ... 4050204576219073867182108.html
Published: Apr 1, 2011
Author: STEPHEN MOORE
Post Date: 2011-04-01 09:06:01 by Happy Quanzaa
Keywords: Obama-doma-ding-dong
Views: 193266
Comments: 226

We've Become a Nation of Takers, Not Makers

More Americans work for the government than in manufacturing, farming, fishing, forestry, mining and utilities combined.

If you want to understand better why so many states—from New York to Wisconsin to California—are teetering on the brink of bankruptcy, consider this depressing statistic: Today in America there are nearly twice as many people working for the government (22.5 million) than in all of manufacturing (11.5 million). This is an almost exact reversal of the situation in 1960, when there were 15 million workers in manufacturing and 8.7 million collecting a paycheck from the government.

It gets worse. More Americans work for the government than work in construction, farming, fishing, forestry, manufacturing, mining and utilities combined. We have moved decisively from a nation of makers to a nation of takers. Nearly half of the $2.2 trillion cost of state and local governments is the $1 trillion-a-year tab for pay and benefits of state and local employees. Is it any wonder that so many states and cities cannot pay their bills?

Every state in America today except for two—Indiana and Wisconsin—has more government workers on the payroll than people manufacturing industrial goods. Consider California, which has the highest budget deficit in the history of the states. The not-so Golden State now has an incredible 2.4 million government employees—twice as many as people at work in manufacturing. New Jersey has just under two-and-a-half as many government employees as manufacturers. Florida's ratio is more than 3 to 1. So is New York's.

Even Michigan, at one time the auto capital of the world, and Pennsylvania, once the steel capital, have more government bureaucrats than people making things. The leaders in government hiring are Wyoming and New Mexico, which have hired more than six government workers for every manufacturing worker.

Now it is certainly true that many states have not typically been home to traditional manufacturing operations. Iowa and Nebraska are farm states, for example. But in those states, there are at least five times more government workers than farmers. West Virginia is the mining capital of the world, yet it has at least three times more government workers than miners. New York is the financial capital of the world—at least for now. That sector employs roughly 670,000 New Yorkers. That's less than half of the state's 1.48 million government employees.

Don't expect a reversal of this trend anytime soon. Surveys of college graduates are finding that more and more of our top minds want to work for the government. Why? Because in recent years only government agencies have been hiring, and because the offer of near lifetime security is highly valued in these times of economic turbulence. When 23-year-olds aren't willing to take career risks, we have a real problem on our hands. Sadly, we could end up with a generation of Americans who want to work at the Department of Motor Vehicles.

The employment trends described here are explained in part by hugely beneficial productivity improvements in such traditional industries as farming, manufacturing, financial services and telecommunications. These produce far more output per worker than in the past. The typical farmer, for example, is today at least three times more productive than in 1950.

Where are the productivity gains in government? Consider a core function of state and local governments: schools. Over the period 1970-2005, school spending per pupil, adjusted for inflation, doubled, while standardized achievement test scores were flat. Over roughly that same time period, public-school employment doubled per student, according to a study by researchers at the University of Washington. That is what economists call negative productivity.

But education is an industry where we measure performance backwards: We gauge school performance not by outputs, but by inputs. If quality falls, we say we didn't pay teachers enough or we need smaller class sizes or newer schools. If education had undergone the same productivity revolution that manufacturing has, we would have half as many educators, smaller school budgets, and higher graduation rates and test scores.

The same is true of almost all other government services. Mass transit spends more and more every year and yet a much smaller share of Americans use trains and buses today than in past decades. One way that private companies spur productivity is by firing underperforming employees and rewarding excellence. In government employment, tenure for teachers and near lifetime employment for other civil servants shields workers from this basic system of reward and punishment. It is a system that breeds mediocrity, which is what we've gotten.

Most reasonable steps to restrain public-sector employment costs are smothered by the unions. Study after study has shown that states and cities could shave 20% to 40% off the cost of many services—fire fighting, public transportation, garbage collection, administrative functions, even prison operations—through competitive contracting to private providers. But unions have blocked many of those efforts. Public employees maintain that they are underpaid relative to equally qualified private-sector workers, yet they are deathly afraid of competitive bidding for government services.

President Obama says we have to retool our economy to "win the future." The only way to do that is to grow the economy that makes things, not the sector that takes things.

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#121. To: We The People (#119)

That depends on what you consider success. You obviously consider it to be money.

So then you would consider a man who is a loving and supportive husband and father, who treats others with respect and decency, abides by the law, is a good neighbor, etc to be successful even if his wages are insufficient to meet his family's needs and he must rely on taxpayer supported services to get by?

You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand

lucysmom  posted on  2011-04-03   15:23:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#122. To: Godwinson (#111)

Next time read more before you jump into a conversation. I am talking about so called conservatives tending to be against private sector employees demanding better wages and work conditions. I cited examples above where so called conservatives always seem to take the position that certain types of workers should be paid less and should not demand more in the private sector and in many cases blame the America worker (either blame his high salary of his uppity nature) for the offshoring to commie China.

Next time read before you come to a conclusion. I've not seen ANY conservative take the position you accuse them of. Are you sure this isn't something you've made up in your head?

Are you Destro?

We The People  posted on  2011-04-03   15:24:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#123. To: lucysmom (#121)

So then you would consider a man who is a loving and supportive husband and father, who treats others with respect and decency, abides by the law, is a good neighbor, etc to be successful even if his wages are insufficient to meet his family's needs and he must rely on taxpayer supported services to get by?

That's kind of a hard question to answer. You seem to have to go to awful lengths to make a point. Are you sure the point you're making is worth it?

I would consider a man who is a loving and supportive husband and father, who treats others with respect and decency, abides by the law, and is a good neighbor to be intelligent enough to live within his means and not need taxpayer supported services to get by.

Many of us need help from time to time. That's what family and churches are for. Way too many of us look to government to 'take' that help from others.

We The People  posted on  2011-04-03   15:29:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#124. To: We The People (#122) (Edited)

Next time read before you come to a conclusion. I've not seen ANY conservative take the position you accuse them of. Are you sure this isn't something you've made up in your head?

I linked a couple of examples in the thread above - including McCain's economic advisor stating Americans make too much money and should get pay cuts. Please read before you waste my time. Learn to use the 'trace' button.

"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.

Godwinson  posted on  2011-04-03   15:36:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#125. To: We The People (#123)

Are you sure the point you're making is worth it?

If the other side weren't going to such great lengths to see what little social support the US has destroyed then the point wouldn't have to be made.

Many of us need help from time to time. That's what family and churches are for. Way too many of us look to government to 'take' that help from others.

Even the poor houses and work farms of old were government supported.

You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand

lucysmom  posted on  2011-04-03   15:39:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#126. To: lucysmom, Godwinson (#120)

I remember that woman that told W Bush she worked 2 or 3 jobs to make ends meet and Bush praised that. I praise the woman but its a horrible sign that people make so little at one job they need to work other jobs. This has blowback effects on the economy like unsupervised children, health and stress problems, etc.

A friend who works in a clinic that provides court ordered services to children and adolescents confirms that. She says its not hard to figure out why kids end up in court, the adults are all working and there is no one to take care of the kids.

You both do realize why this is, I hope?

It's because of never ending deficit spending, causing government, through the fed, to print ever more amounts of money to be placed into circulation further devaluing the dollar and causing inflation.

It's because of your governments actions (and I do mean Republicans AND DEMOCRATS) implementing 'free trade' policies which ship our good manufacturing jobs overseas and not enforcing our immigration laws making Americans compete with illegal aliens over the remaining jobs.

It's because of INFLATION that it now takes two incomes for an average family to make ends meet and the feminist movement who encouraged American women to enter the workforce. You've come a long way baby!

lucysmom: If you read the comments above - they want low skilled labor to be paid less, as if say a janitor should be living in poverty because he is a useless person or some such intimation.

That is an outright fabrication and a horrible lie to make up about your fellow American, simply because you don't agree with their political views. Who do you believe wants a janitor to live in poverty?

Conservatives don't want ANYONE living in poverty and that is a bullshit leftist talking point and I'm actually saddened to even be addressing it.

We The People  posted on  2011-04-03   15:40:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#127. To: Godwinson (#124)

I've not seen ANY conservative take the position you accuse them of.

McCain's economic advisor

McCain's economic advisor?!?

That is who you consider a conservative?

And you have the nerve to tell me to please read before I waste your time?

I've entered Wonderland...right?

We The People  posted on  2011-04-03   15:43:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#128. To: lucysmom (#125)

If the other side weren't going to such great lengths to see what little social support the US has destroyed then the point wouldn't have to be made.

OMG.

I see. You're still stuck on Repub v Dem.

Nevermind. Carry on.

We The People  posted on  2011-04-03   15:45:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#129. To: We The People, lucysmom, Godwinson (#126)

It's because of never ending deficit spending, causing government, through the fed, to print ever more amounts of money to be placed into circulation further devaluing the dollar and causing inflation.

If the dollar was devalued that would make importing into America more expensive and local made good less expensive and thus no need to offshore to nations like China. Where do you so called conservatives get your economic knowledge from? Rush "Pills" Limbough?

We The People, I have listed EXAMPLES of conservatives not wanting people being paid more. That you are unable or unwilling to find it on this thread is your problem.

"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.

Godwinson  posted on  2011-04-03   15:45:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#130. To: We The People (#127)

McCain's economic advisor?!?

That is who you consider a conservative?

Yea, I do, dick.

"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.

Godwinson  posted on  2011-04-03   15:48:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#131. To: We The People, lucysmom (#128)

Have you noticed the kooky conservatives have come to resemble the old commies in that you have Trotskyites vs Lenists vs Marxists vs Stalinist vs Maoists all claiming that the other was not a true commie?

In this case they apply this to degrees of their so called conservative ideology. I guess if they are going to claim Mccain is not a real conservative how can they claim Obama is a liberal socialist?

"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.

Godwinson  posted on  2011-04-03   15:54:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#132. To: Godwinson (#130)

McCain's economic advisor?!?

That is who you consider a conservative?

Yea, I do, dick.

Well then, you would be wrong.

And from your reply, I sense that you already know that.

We The People  posted on  2011-04-03   16:31:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#133. To: Godwinson (#129)

We The People, I have listed EXAMPLES of conservatives not wanting people being paid more. That you are unable or unwilling to find it on this thread is your problem.

Do you have any idea how painful it would be for me to have to read every one of your posts on this thread, to find one certain post when I'm already certain that you haven't a clue as to what you're talking about?

We The People  posted on  2011-04-03   16:33:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#134. To: lucysmom (#110)

The word was productive.

Productive in the Republican sense is economic activity.

[Productive in the Democratic sense...

...Would include but not exclusive to economic activity. I would say Jesus lead a productive life.

a) The word in this case might be "bong."

b) You explained NOTHING AT ALL about defining "productive" or "productivity" in a philosophy sense of Pub vs. Dem.

Look Lucy - I don't have a magic decoder ring in my box of granola.

Wanna try again? This time without inhaling.

Liberator  posted on  2011-04-03   16:45:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#135. To: We The People, Godwinson (#133)

Do you have any idea how painful it would be for me to have to read every one of your posts on this thread, to find one certain post when I'm already certain that you haven't a clue as to what you're talking about?

LOL

I tried reading the person's post earlier. Not even an entire pot of espresso and Volume VX of the Byeltsin Translation Manual could help.

Liberator  posted on  2011-04-03   16:49:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#136. To: Godwinson, We The People (#130)

Yea, I do, dick.

What? You "do dick"? Have you met yukon?

Liberator  posted on  2011-04-03   16:50:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#137. To: We The People, lucysmom (#128)

OMG.

I see. You're still stuck on Repub v Dem.

Nevermind. Carry on.

Lucy's fighting The Peoples War. That means she can't see beyond the hammer & sickle and bust of Lenin.

Any intellectual honest observation and critical thinker understands America's politics and economy transcend mere party affiliation. That means BOTH parties have contributed to the FUBAR situation.

That said, only the delusional, alternative-universe based partisan will blame ONLY one side or the other.

Liberator  posted on  2011-04-03   16:56:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#138. To: Godwinson (#131)

Have you noticed the kooky conservatives have come to resemble the old commies in that you have Trotskyites vs Lenists vs Marxists vs Stalinist vs Maoists all claiming that the other was not a true commie?

Sometimes when they parrot Conservative slogans I'm reminded of Mao's little red book.

You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand

lucysmom  posted on  2011-04-03   17:00:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#139. To: We The People (#133)

Do you have any idea how painful it would be for me to have to read every one of your posts on this thread, to find one certain post when I'm already certain that you haven't a clue as to what you're talking about?

Check out some of CZ82's posts to me then.

You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand

lucysmom  posted on  2011-04-03   17:02:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#140. To: Liberator (#134)

Look Lucy - I don't have a magic decoder ring in my box of granola.

I'm not sure a decoder ring would do you any good.

Wanna try again? This time without inhaling.

How about you define productive and we'll go from there?

You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand

lucysmom  posted on  2011-04-03   17:07:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#141. To: We The People (#133)

You thought it worthwile to enter a conversation mid-way without reading what was said before and getting the conversation's topic wrong. That is a failing on your part not mine.

"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.

Godwinson  posted on  2011-04-03   17:38:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#142. To: Liberator, We The People (#136)

Have you met yukon?

Yea, you and him are buddies in Goldi's crazy land, lib. Sorry I called that other guy a dick, though. Bad form on my part.

"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.

Godwinson  posted on  2011-04-03   17:40:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#143. To: Godwinson (#141)

You thought it worthwile to enter a conversation mid-way without reading what was said before and getting the conversation's topic wrong.

I didn't have to "enter" any conservation you're involved in to know how it begins and how it ends - at the tip of a bong.

Liberator  posted on  2011-04-03   18:03:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#144. To: Godwinson, We The People (#142)

Yea, you and him are buddies in Goldi's crazy land, lib.

Bwaaahaa!!

*eyeball roll*

Sorry I called that other guy a dick, though. Bad form on my part.

Thanks for clarifying your alternative intention.

Liberator  posted on  2011-04-03   18:05:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#145. To: lucysmom, Godwinson, We The People (#138)

Sometimes when they parrot Conservative slogans I'm reminded of Mao's little red book.

Loooo-seee! It's you and the Left who live-by-the-slogan. And "read Mao's little red book."

Don't be coy.

Liberator  posted on  2011-04-03   18:08:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#146. To: Godwinson (#142)

Sorry I called that other guy a dick, though.

Don't sweat it. I usually don't put much weight behind anyone that believes John McCain's eco adviser is a conservative.

Besides, I can be a dick. I do try not to be though.

We The People  posted on  2011-04-03   18:10:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#147. To: We The People (#146)

Don't sweat it. I usually don't put much weight behind anyone that believes John McCain's eco adviser is a conservative.

Besides, I can be a dick. I do try not to be though.

Kevin Allen Hassett is an American economist. He is best known for his work in macroeconomics and tax policy and for coauthoring Dow 36,000, published in 1999. Hassett is currently a senior fellow and director of economic policy studies at the American Enterprise Institute. He was John McCain's chief economic adviser in the 2000 presidential primaries and an economic adviser to the campaigns of George W. Bush in the 2004 presidential election and McCain in the presidential election of 2008.

Since I left the American conservative movement I no longer care which faction gets to claim which is the more pure. To any reasonable person, Hassett is an American rightist/conservative/Republican.

"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.

Godwinson  posted on  2011-04-03   18:30:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#148. To: Liberator (#143)

I didn't have to "enter" any conservation you're involved in to know how it begins and how it ends - at the tip of a bong.

Like I said, you are yukon clone.

"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.

Godwinson  posted on  2011-04-03   18:34:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#149. To: Godwinson (#148)

Like I said, you are yukon clone.

THAT was cruel.

Liberator  posted on  2011-04-03   18:41:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#150. To: All (#0)

FOOD FOR THOUGHT

All men are created equal under god, or at least that's what I've always heard.. TRUE OR FALSE?????

So if man was created to be equal then why don't they choose to be equal..... Why is it some men choose to be all they can be and some choose to do nothing...

Maybe it's because some have pride, integrity, honesty, honor, strong morals, strength of character and other such good ideals(PRODUCTIVE). And some men have no clue what those concepts are, in fact I don't think they want to know (NONPRODUCTIVE).

The PRODUCTIVE one's have no problem making a living for themselves and their families, the NONPRODUCTIVE ones can't and don't even try, instead they want a handout......

My question is why do Liberals feel "compassion" (or so they say) for NONPRODUCTIVE people and feel scorn for PRODUCTIVE ones .......why is that????? Is it maybe because they are part of the NONPRODUCTIVE group themselves.... Is it because they hate themselves, their lives and anybody who accidently comes into contact with them??? Is it because they want to feel good about themselves so they try to make you feel bad about yourself..... Is that the real reason why they try to shame the PRODUCTIVE ones into thinking it's their duty to "bankroll" the NONPRODUCTIVE ones...... By telling them they are being discrimatory towards them or being racist towards them....... when it was the choice of the NONPRODUCTIVE ones to be NONPRODUCTIVE.....

On the other hand if the Liberals are actually PRODUCTIVE themselves, then why do they think it's up to everybody else to help the NONPRODUCTIVE ones while they do nothing about it?????? Why don't "THEY" bankroll the NONPRODUCTIVE ones and leave everybody else out of it??????? And if they are actually PRODUCTIVE then why in the hell would they want to be a Liberal???? they are only screwing themselves......

I guess some things are better left unknown, that's why I don't try to figure out what stupid people are thinking. If I understand what they are thinking, then it makes me just as stupid as they are.......

"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning

CZ82  posted on  2011-04-03   18:42:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#151. To: Liberator (#149)

Truth hurts. You are known by the company you keep. From what I can see from a casual recall of the LP comments record, you are one of those confederates on LP that make that place what it is.

"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.

Godwinson  posted on  2011-04-03   18:43:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#152. To: Liberator (#145)

Loooo-seee! It's you and the Left who live-by-the-slogan. And "read Mao's little red book."

Two slogans that immediately come to mind are:

"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"

"Corporations don't pay taxes! People do!"

Who on the left enforces party discipline like Grover Norquist?

I don't belong to an organized party - I'm a Democrat Will Rogers

You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand

lucysmom  posted on  2011-04-03   18:46:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#153. To: Godwinson (#151) (Edited)

You are known by the company you keep.

Gee, thanks Confucius. What's your next fortune cookie say?

From what I can see from a casual recall of the LP comments record, you are one of those confederates on LP that make that place what it is.

Keep on doing your research, kid.

Liberator  posted on  2011-04-03   18:47:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#154. To: CZ82 (#150)

FOOD FOR THOUGHT

You flatter yourself.

You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand

lucysmom  posted on  2011-04-03   18:50:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#155. To: lucysmom (#152)

Two slogans that immediately come to mind are:

"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"

That's Reagan ridiculing Big Goobermint. NOT a slogan.

Corporations don't pay taxes! People do!"

Never heard of it. THIS is a conservative "slogan"?? I'd better start going to our meetings.

Who on the left enforces party discipline like Grover Norquist?

The entire Left is one giant monolithic Nuremberg rally.

Norquist is a NWO elite and RINO slob.

I don't belong to an organized party - I'm a Democrat Will Rogers

You're living in a time warp Lucy, arencha? The Democrat Party of the 1930s wasn't yet the Communist Party it was to became 50 years later.

Liberator  posted on  2011-04-03   18:55:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#156. To: Liberator (#155)

Norquist is a NWO elite and RINO slob.

Right now he's holding California hostage.

You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand

lucysmom  posted on  2011-04-03   19:01:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#157. To: Godwinson (#147) (Edited)

To any reasonable person, Hassett is an American rightist/conservative/Republican.

And who was asenior fellow at AEI, until his death is 09?

Irving Kristol.

Some AEI scholars are considered to be some of the leading architects of the second Bush administration's public policy.[7] More than twenty AEI scholars and fellows served either in a Bush administration policy post or on one of the government's many panels and commissions. Among the prominent former government officials now affiliated with AEI are former U.S. ambassador to the U.N. John Bolton, now an AEI senior fellow; former chairman of the National Endowment for the Humanities; Lynne Cheney, a longtime AEI senior fellow; former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, now an AEI senior fellow; former Dutch member of parliament Ayaan Hirsi Ali, an AEI visiting fellow; and former deputy secretary of defense Paul Wolfowitz, now an AEI visiting scholar. Other prominent individuals affiliated with AEI include Kevin Hassett, Frederick W. Kagan, Leon Kass, Charles Murray, Michael Novak, Norman J. Ornstein, Richard Perle, Radek Sikorski, Christina Hoff Sommers, and Peter J. Wallison.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Enterprise_Institute

Now make fun of wiki again, then go read up and learn the difference between a neoconservative and a conservative.

We The People  posted on  2011-04-03   19:15:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#158. To: Godwinson (#147)

Since I left the American conservative movement

Oh please....

We The People  posted on  2011-04-03   19:17:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#159. To: We The People (#158)

Since I left the American conservative movement Oh please....

Maybe you are right....the American conservative movement left me. Now you on the American right are a collection of kooks and cranks.

"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.

Godwinson  posted on  2011-04-03   19:31:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#160. To: Godwinson (#159)

Now you on the American right are a collection of kooks and cranks.

But we're not socialists, like you leftists and the neoconservatives.

We The People  posted on  2011-04-03   20:08:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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