Corrupt Government
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Title: Nation of Takers, Not Makers~more work for govt. than manufacturing, farming, fishing, forestry, mining & utilities combined
Source:
WSJ
URL Source: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100 ... 4050204576219073867182108.html
Published: Apr 1, 2011
Author: STEPHEN MOORE
Post Date: 2011-04-01 09:06:01 by Happy Quanzaa
Keywords: Obama-doma-ding-dong
Views: 192781
Comments: 226
If you want to understand better why so many states—from New York to Wisconsin to California—are teetering on the brink of bankruptcy, consider this depressing statistic: Today in America there are nearly twice as many people working for the government (22.5 million) than in all of manufacturing (11.5 million). This is an almost exact reversal of the situation in 1960, when there were 15 million workers in manufacturing and 8.7 million collecting a paycheck from the government. It gets worse. More Americans work for the government than work in construction, farming, fishing, forestry, manufacturing, mining and utilities combined. We have moved decisively from a nation of makers to a nation of takers. Nearly half of the $2.2 trillion cost of state and local governments is the $1 trillion-a-year tab for pay and benefits of state and local employees. Is it any wonder that so many states and cities cannot pay their bills? Every state in America today except for two—Indiana and Wisconsin—has more government workers on the payroll than people manufacturing industrial goods. Consider California, which has the highest budget deficit in the history of the states. The not-so Golden State now has an incredible 2.4 million government employees—twice as many as people at work in manufacturing. New Jersey has just under two-and-a-half as many government employees as manufacturers. Florida's ratio is more than 3 to 1. So is New York's. Even Michigan, at one time the auto capital of the world, and Pennsylvania, once the steel capital, have more government bureaucrats than people making things. The leaders in government hiring are Wyoming and New Mexico, which have hired more than six government workers for every manufacturing worker. Now it is certainly true that many states have not typically been home to traditional manufacturing operations. Iowa and Nebraska are farm states, for example. But in those states, there are at least five times more government workers than farmers. West Virginia is the mining capital of the world, yet it has at least three times more government workers than miners. New York is the financial capital of the world—at least for now. That sector employs roughly 670,000 New Yorkers. That's less than half of the state's 1.48 million government employees. Don't expect a reversal of this trend anytime soon. Surveys of college graduates are finding that more and more of our top minds want to work for the government. Why? Because in recent years only government agencies have been hiring, and because the offer of near lifetime security is highly valued in these times of economic turbulence. When 23-year-olds aren't willing to take career risks, we have a real problem on our hands. Sadly, we could end up with a generation of Americans who want to work at the Department of Motor Vehicles. The employment trends described here are explained in part by hugely beneficial productivity improvements in such traditional industries as farming, manufacturing, financial services and telecommunications. These produce far more output per worker than in the past. The typical farmer, for example, is today at least three times more productive than in 1950. Where are the productivity gains in government? Consider a core function of state and local governments: schools. Over the period 1970-2005, school spending per pupil, adjusted for inflation, doubled, while standardized achievement test scores were flat. Over roughly that same time period, public-school employment doubled per student, according to a study by researchers at the University of Washington. That is what economists call negative productivity. But education is an industry where we measure performance backwards: We gauge school performance not by outputs, but by inputs. If quality falls, we say we didn't pay teachers enough or we need smaller class sizes or newer schools. If education had undergone the same productivity revolution that manufacturing has, we would have half as many educators, smaller school budgets, and higher graduation rates and test scores. The same is true of almost all other government services. Mass transit spends more and more every year and yet a much smaller share of Americans use trains and buses today than in past decades. One way that private companies spur productivity is by firing underperforming employees and rewarding excellence. In government employment, tenure for teachers and near lifetime employment for other civil servants shields workers from this basic system of reward and punishment. It is a system that breeds mediocrity, which is what we've gotten. Most reasonable steps to restrain public-sector employment costs are smothered by the unions. Study after study has shown that states and cities could shave 20% to 40% off the cost of many services—fire fighting, public transportation, garbage collection, administrative functions, even prison operations—through competitive contracting to private providers. But unions have blocked many of those efforts. Public employees maintain that they are underpaid relative to equally qualified private-sector workers, yet they are deathly afraid of competitive bidding for government services. President Obama says we have to retool our economy to "win the future." The only way to do that is to grow the economy that makes things, not the sector that takes things.
We've Become a Nation of Takers, Not Makers
More Americans work for the government than in manufacturing, farming, fishing, forestry, mining and utilities combined.
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#1. To: Happy Quanzaa (#0)
I don't really know jack squat about economics, but holy shit, if there are more workers employed by the government than in those fields combined that seems like trouble a-brewin' economics-wise.
------------------------------------- California is also at the bottom of government employee to population ratio.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
That only means Kalifornia isn't even bothering to fake it with phony make-work jobs, they just send most of their moochers food stamps and welfare checks in the mail.
This is exactly the problem. Add to takers people who are leaching off of the government transfer payments of various sorts, and the future looks very bleak.
This is the economic result of free trade as advocated by most Republicans and some Democrats (that seems to be the ratio). Especially notice that Republican online forum members and on talk radio and their talking head hosts always attack the wages American workers earn as being too high. I guess when the oligarchs drive wages down to pennies an hour manufacturing jobs may return - I say may because Americans tend to be uppity and demand things like rights and dignity so even then the jobs may not come back until the American will to stand up as a free man is broken.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
Yes, and the few localities that have done this not only have lower costs, but also better service.
No, it's the economic result of power hungry politicians who keep creating more and more government agencies, departments and programs.
This is exactly the problem. Add to takers people who are leaching off of the government transfer payments of various sorts, and the future looks very bleak. Isn't it interesting the way the number of takers increases when the number of jobs decreases?
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
No, it's predictable.
Yep. Business tax reductions may be overrated as an economic stimulus because they're so low on the totem pole of expenses. For most businesses, the cost of labor is probably 15 times the cost of all state and local taxes, said Bartik of the Upjohn Institute. You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
Most of which were lobbied for by various business interests or created by neccessity in response to lousy or even dangerous business practices. The biggest problems arise when politicians do the bidding of those who send them the biggest bribes.
"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"
You have the cause and effect backwards. The number of jobs have decreased because the government has become larded up with parasites draining the life out of the productive segment of the economy.
Stop trying to tie private sector employees together with government bureaucrats. In a competitive (and global) economy, wages rise or fall based on output (productivity). Government bureaucrats are not productive. In fact, for the most part they are counter-productive. Most of them should be made available to the market.
It's much easier for politicians to receive bribes and kick backs that way. We've already been down that road. Too much graft and corruption.
"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"
What are you blathering about?
Read a good US history book. The USA didn't just magically appear on the day you were born.
"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"
I've read many good history books. You leftists are the ones who are completely clueless with regards to U.S. history.
Do you want me to link you to megapages on Freerepublic where fucking so called conservatives griped about the wages of union auto workers (private sector) way before the bail outs of GM? More evidence Republicans (and I am sure blue dog Democrats) WANT to lower your wages as part of the globalization/free-trade ideology: Your Fat Paycheck Keeps Your Neighbor Unemployed: Kevin Hassett (Hassett is currently a senior fellow and director of economic policy studies at the American Enterprise Institute. He was John McCain's chief economic adviser in the 2000 presidential primaries and an economic adviser to the campaigns of George W. Bush in the 2004 presidential election and McCain in the presidential election of 2008.) The biggest problem with the labor market right now is that wages are too high.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
I find you pretty clueless about most things jwpegler so I doubt you read or understand what you read.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
Well you can't really blame them because those people were getting paid way in excess of their productivity...... kinda like politicians.......
"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning
Thank you for adding anecdotal evidence that so called conservatives as they exist online root for the devaluing of American labor.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
So in essence you think the auto workers are/were getting paid in line with their productivity.....
"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning
I realize that's what you've been told, but it ain't so.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
Without historical perspective, he believes that government employee unions are the enemy.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
It's between employees and their employers. Every study I see shows American workers to be among the most productive on the planet - clearly the top 10 if not the top 5. I just want to point out so called conservatives - from radio, TV and online comments - have made it a pattern to take the side of the oligarchs and always claim the employees are making too much money for what they do. It seems the so called conservative commentators go out of their way to justify the compensations of the oligarchs/management classes and disparage the wages of middle class workers. In any case, what is "fair" compensation is a meaningless term since wages come from negotiations between employees and their employers.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
They just get silent after. They have these fake realities in their head - they make up reality about what the Republican party stands for and what it actually does - and then when you point it out to them that McCain's own economic honcho is advocating lowering wages for Americans - and the 40 year long history of Republicans advocating of free trade and exporting of jobs to Communist China and corrupt Mexico and they zone off like Zombies. They knee jerk and blame unions, blame Democrats blame everyone but the fucking ideology of their own fucking party. They so want to believe the GOP stands for something it is not their minds literally manufactures reality for them. It seems like when it comes to the online so called conservatives it is like conversing with brainwashed cult members.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
It's between employees and their employers. So what you're saying is "that's" the reason why most American auto workers are unemployed now. Was it because they were unproductive???? Or is it because they were paid way in excess of their productivity.....
"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning
Was it because they were unproductive???? Or is it because they were paid way in excess of their productivity..... Neither.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
So why then????
"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning
Like I said, you take the side of the oligarchs who export jobs overseas because paying cheap Mexican wages or cheaper Chinese wages trumps anything else or obeying laws in America is a problem so why not move to lawless nations where bribes will do nicely? The company would be profitable obeying all American laws and paying American middle class wages but why should the oligarchs get less bonus money when moving it overseas makes them more money? So at the end of the day, what you scumbag conservatives advocate for is degrading the American worker to the point he makes no money. You conservative / GOP scum will take the side of Communist China over an America because it is now linked to your party identity.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
Notice how the right wingers fixate on auto unions over all other types of exported jobs when union and non union work not related to the auto industry have all went overseas. Notice he avoids the issue of why he thinks Americans make too much money now to be employed anyway?
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
What Godwinson said and I would add poor management and bad design decisions that disadvantaged US auto makers in a competitive market place. It was not about the cost of the car, but about the car itself.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
How many losers on Neo-Con Central are in a position to influence anything? ZERO? Did you ever see the Simpsons episode where some panhandler asks grandpa Simpson for some spare change? Grandpa Simpson goes into a tirade about lazy bums. Then he immediately walks into to a Socialist Insecurity office and said: "I'm old gimme, gimme, gimme". That's Free Republic -- a bunch of loser know-nothings. They have nothing to do with anything.
Japanese auto makers have been more responsive to market trends while US manufacturers have been slow to catch on.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
I grew up in Detroit. I have many blogs about the brain auto companies. In short, they've had the most brain dead management on the planet for the better part of four decades and even worse union leadership. They are ALL completely clueless and have been for a long time, which is why the Japanese and Koreans have been able to kick their ass.
Their influence might be limited, but they do respond to cultural influences and parrot popular niche ideas just as you do.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
LOL I've been a Vice President at a large corporation and a Chief Technology Officer at another company. I've had customer, revenue, and innovation responsibility over thousands of people across the world. I've also run a small business. I ALWAYS SUCCEED. What have you done? NOTHING. We know who the clueless moron is here. It's you -- the most ignorant person I have ever met on the internet.
I agree with poor management decisions, that maybe you shouldn't pay somebody $30 per hour to put screws in a dashboard when any idiot you bring in off the street can do that job for a lot less.... How long did it take to train those people anyway 10-15 minutes????? Their point and my point is those people are not "highly trained" so why pay them way in excess of their productivity. You have people that know way more (4 yrs plus of college) than them who get paid much less, so how is that fair.....
"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning
They are at BMW, Mercedes and Toyota plants in south. But not at GM in Michigan or Ohio, which is why those states are economic disaster areas.
I don't parrot anything. I pioneer. On the other hand, you've gotten a lot better at Googling incorrect answers over the last year than you where when you started. At some point, you might even Google a correct answer on occasion.
Yep, but it did work for 25 years or so when the entire rest of the world was destroyed after WWII. But it doesn't work any longer. People like Lucysmon and Go65 have that 1950s and 1960s reference in their head. They have no clue on how the world has changed, why it's changed, what it means, and what we have to do to compete. At foreign auto transplants in the south, semi-skilled laborers get $14 (not $30) an hour AND they have to learn how to do more than one thing. If people don't like it, they should go learn a skill. Learn how to be an auto mechanic, framer, finished carpenter, cabinet maker, plumber, etc. These are good paying jobs. It's harder to find a good plumber than it is to find a good lawyer in most places. There is a huge demand. Even better - many should try to open a small business, as plumbers, carpenters, etc. This is what the country needs.
I didn't know there was such a thing as a good lawyer!!!!!!
"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning
It looks like German auto workers are paid significantly more than American. A recent study by the European Union shows that when you factor in the 35-hour workweek, German auto workers earn the equivalent of about $55 an hour, including benefits. That compares with an average of about $41 an hour in America, the study says.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
How about sharing some of your successful, pioneering projects in economics.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
I'll bet they didn't factor in (COL) cost of living in Germany???? It's expensive there, very expensive...... But you have to admit they do make a good product, better than American brand cars....
"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning
And cost of living isn't a factor in American wages? You seem to think American workers should produce a German quality car while earning Chinese wages.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
I'll share one of my successful, pioneering experiences in business instead. I was the VP of Engineering and a member of the Executive Team at a startup company that we grew from 0 employees to 6,500 employees in 7 years. The average salary was about $90,000 plus benefits. How many jobs have you created? How many of those were high paying, high technology jobs??? I started a new technology company in 2009. My wife also started a new services company a few months later. We both started these businesses at the bottom of the Great Recession. It's been difficult. But we are not complaining. We are moving forward. Come ask us in 3 to 5 years how many jobs we've created. It will be a bunch. What will you do over the next 3 to 5 years, other than bellyache about the success of others?????
American workers ARE producing German quality cars at German auto plants in America, without the UAW's help. All of these plants are in right to work states. It's just a fact.
Right. You created jobs in India as I recall, and your wife does day care (who hasn't?).
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
You again prove my observation. Over and over be it on Internet forums, or talk radio or written words, so called conservatives and their parrots keep return to this theme that a segment of the population - always a working class segment - makes too much money for doing manual labor. But they go nuts when there is any talk about how executives are compensated. I even remember not to long ago on this forum I said that college athletes of sports that make billions in revenue for schools and TV should be paid a semi- pro wage and again I got this same line that the athletes should be happy with what they get (free education/room & bored) and not complain or rock the boat. The oligarchs have produced this envy between slightly upper middle class vs lower middle class vs the poor.....
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
False. The majority of German cars in America are produced in assembly plants. The actual fabrik (manufacturing) of parts are imported. Americans then just bolt them together. It's cheaper assembling cars in America than bringing in whole cars.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
I've also run a small business. I ALWAYS SUCCEED. Sounds like you bounce around jobs a lot.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
I don't care how clueless American car companies are. I would still protect them against free trade globalization which the GOP supports.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
Actually you complain all the time about government, taxes and unions.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
And the result will be high prices for poor quality.
The difference between you and I is that you complain when you can't force others to hand you things, while I complain when others force me to hand you things.
I don't have jobs. I have a career. It's incomprehensible to me how clueless you really are. You HAVE to be a school teacher. You can just tell.
As opposed to conjuring them up in your text books? WTF are you talking about??? Bozo. ROTFLMAO.
You haven't. You don't have the initiative and drive to start any kind of business.
You seem to think American workers should produce a German quality car while earning Chinese wages. It sure is in Liberal $hitholes all up and down both coasts, that have tax rates double what it is where I live ....... but then what do you expect from them?????? Well if the American cars was German quality then I would expect the workers to get paid somewhat more...... but the quality isn't so there you go.... Just to put in perspective what the Germans make.... I make almost the same amount (bennys and all) but live in an area 1/2 as expensive. So they really aren't making that much money if you get right down to it...... Putting a car together on an assembly line doesn't take a lot of brains, most of the larger parts are already assembled somewhere else. For instance the frame or unibody is made in one place, the engine in another and the doors and other major components made somewhere else...... It's kinda like putting a puzzle together that somebody else has numbered for you, the guy who figured out the assembly line order..... Now that guy is the one who deserves his 6 figure salary, he is the one with the brains and special training...... not screw gun boy........
"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning
Flip burgers!!!!!
"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning
Well now we know you're not psychic.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
It seems your claim to knowledge is limited. Assembly plants are not manufacturing plants. Assembly plants just bolt together the parts manufacturing elsewhere.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
Have you noticed lucy, they don't deny that their so called conservative outlook wants workers to be paid less and in their opinion the American worker is inferior and should be paid less?
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
We didn't say inferior, you did..... But if you think the term does actually apply then go ahead and use it..... It all boils down to being paid for what you know!!!! (not who YOU blow like in the world you live in)..... There, is that simplistic enough for you???? I guess I'll ask you a stupid question then..... who deserves to make more money the engineer who designed the car that has a 4-8 year college degree, or the guy with the screw gun and 15 minutes training??????? Simple question with only one answer....... (I have $20 on this with Stone).
"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning
Yep. They are like an abusive spouse verbally attacking the worth of the mate they wish to dominate and control.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
I don't believe anyone here thinks that all people should earn the same amount of money without regard to the job done or preparation required to do that job. The guy with the screw gun may not "deserve" to travel through life first cabin, however he does "deserve" wages sufficient to provide both subsistence and dignity for himself and his family. "Necessitous men are not free men." Liberty requires opportunity to make a living - a living decent according to the standard of the time, a living which gives man not only enough to live by, but something to live for. You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
Again, with that statement CZ82 is showing is disdain for workers who are not of the "owner or executive" class. The worker should be a wage slave who is lucky those above him are allowing him to breathe the same air as they do. In many cases, like Joe the Plumber, these people delude themselves into thinking they are part of the upper class or will be soon enough so they support this unequal system because in their minds they will someday get there themselves and want to benefit from wage slave labor also. What is lost is the old Henry Ford ideal where he wanted his employees to be able to earn enough to also afford to but his cars.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
Donald Trump.... is that you posting on this little backwater chat forum with 13 posters?
"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"
Yet been proven over and over that American workers and professionals consistently are the most hard working, efficient and responsible in the world. The only problem to the corps, they want the pay to go with it.
"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"
What is ignored by CZ's question is how valuable is the engineer's design without the guy with the screw gun? How many cars can the engineer build by himself?
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
LOL!
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
Again, with that statement CZ82 is showing is disdain for workers who are not of the "owner or executive" class. I'm not an executive or an owner, I'm in the worker class.... if you paid any attention to what I've said in my posts over the last month then you would know that..... but the Liberal mantra doesn't allow learning or listening does it..... What is lost is the old Henry Ford ideal where he wanted his employees to be able to earn enough to also afford to buy his cars. They still can...... My point is and I know it's lost on you but......... being paid for what you know encourages people to get an education to better themselves. If they really want wages "Sufficient to provide both sustenance and dignity for himself and his family" then they will do so, if not then that's their business not mine..... or yours for that matter..... I started out working in a restaurant when I was 16 making $1.90 an hour... after a few months I figured out I didn't want to be a cook/janitor my entire life making minimum wage .... I also realized I needed an education to make that happen, so I went and joined the military and I got one... It got me to where I am today and I'm happy with it..... So instead of being happy being stupid I did something about it.... anybody can do it.... even "Joe the Screw gun guy"....... If more people had the same outlook on life the Democrat party would have ceased to exist a long time ago..... and the world would be a better place..... But the Democrats don't believe in that and don't want you to be smart, they like you stupid so you'll vote for them....... You learn alot of things when you actually live in the real world versus a dream world.... try it sometime you might like it......
"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning
You seem to conflate stupid with uneducated and smart with educated - they are not the same. The world needs janitors so why shouldn't they be paid well enough to provide sustenance and dignity? I'm having lunch this afternoon with a friend I've known since high school. His father was a janitor. On one janitor's income his dad supported his mother, brother, and him, bought a modest house, as well as a vacation home. When he retired, he had a pension and health benefits through his union. Why would you wish to rob a janitor the dignity of knowing he had worked for his living and supported his family. You and your ilk would turn him into a looser who has to beg for his daily bread.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
If you decide to sit on your butt, have no pride in yourself, not want to learn anything or demand something for nothing then you're stupid. If you have the inner drive to be something more than you are for yourself and or your family, and choose to learn something from past experiences/mistakes, .... then you're a smart person ... books alone can't make you smart.... if you don't have any common sense then the books you read are useless........ that simple enough for you????
"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning
I have no doubt he made his money because he put in a honest days work for an honest days pay........ as it should be..... But I'd also bet he wasn't paid $30 an hour to sweep and mop either like "Screw gun Johnny".... if he was then somebody needs their head examined, kinda like the automobile executives..... Going out and making an honest living I have no problem with... But making a living by making outrageous contract demands of the taxpayers who work harder and make less than them, that's what I have a problem with..... But your side of the fence doesn't seem to have a problem with that.... do they?????
"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning
What so called conservatives like CZ82 are saying subconsciously is that they want an inequality in society - they want separation of classes - this maybe a hold over from segregationist times when the Dixiecrats migrated into the GOP or it could be just classic class-ism (the old upstairs, downstairs model) - but is clear they feel a threat when groups they see as being subservient ask for more.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
No, he wasn't paid $30 an hour back in the 60s. He was paid enough to own two homes and support his family on his paycheck alone in the SF bay area. Going out and making an honest living I have no problem with... But making a living by making outrageous contract demands of the taxpayers who work harder and make less than them, that's what I have a problem with..... "Making a living" is the operative phrase. According to San Mateo County HR department pay for a custodian (2011) starts at $17.42 an hour and tops out at $21.77 an hour. The family income needed for self-sufficiency as of 2006 was $31.94 an hour for a family of three. (There is no allotment for savings and no room for unexpected needs or emergencies that can threaten to cut into any of the necessities, such as food or shelter.)
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
"Republicans whine and Republicans bitch/Our rich are too poor and our poor are too rich. "
What conservatives want is the nation that was founded. All men are CREATED equal, given equal opportunity to become what they will. Not given their equal share by government, via taking away private property from someone else. What you seem to want is socialism. Am I correct about that? BTW: Are you the Destro that I keep hearing about?
Hmmm...
I was the VP of Engineering and a member of the Executive Team at a startup company that we grew from 0 employees to 6,500 employees in 7 years. The average salary was about $90,000 plus benefits. How many jobs have you created? How many of those were high paying, high technology jobs??? I started a new technology company in 2009. My wife also started a new services company a few months later. We both started these businesses at the bottom of the Great Recession. It's been difficult. But we are not complaining. We are moving forward. Come ask us in 3 to 5 years how many jobs we've created. It will be a bunch. What will you do over the next 3 to 5 years, other than bellyache about the success of others????? Excellent. Tip o' the cap. Thanks for embodying the American spirit, dream, and determination. I'm sure you've accomplished your achievements despite the goobmint "help."
JW has this exactly right. My sister-in-law - a middle-aged divorced mom of a 12 year old - has just finalized her second full year of collecting unemployment benefits. $450 per week. She hasn't lifted a finger to look for another job - and why not? It's a PAID VACATION. More outrageous: Her ex-husband does NOT provide any alimony. Why isn't his daughter his responibility? Instead, the STATE has became the sugar-daddy and source of ALL financial support. The state provided FREE Medical and dental. FREE housing. FREE food stamp. And other subsidies. Then she complained because she didn't get the FREE-MONEY as a tax-windfall $2100 child-credit from the goobermint. Bottomline: She is a professional parasite... Now multiply this scenario out across American 30 million times. P.S. - She's voted for Clinton and 0bama.
If it were just a matter of inequality it wouldn't be nice, but it would be survivable. Consider that in 2004 92,000 households is San Mateo County had an annual income of $49,999 or less - that is $16,443 short of what a family of three needs to be self suffiecent; The average worker who qualifies for HSA services earns $16.29 an hour, said HSA spokeswoman Catherine Barber. www.smdailyjournal.com/article_preview.php?id=65709 Working families are already forced to beg in order to survive and what CZ82 and his ilk propose would not only remove aid that helps bridge the gap between what people are paid and what it takes to live, but lower wages to boot. Toss in all the legislation the radical right would like to see enacted that would prevent couples controlling the size of their families and you've got third world standard of living right here in the USA.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
If you think all people are "given equal opportunity to become what they will", you're living in lala land.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
By his own admission, he is creating jobs in India - so yeah - I guess he does embody the current American spirit - just not the spirit embodied by the founding fathers.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
Didn't you just recently post to someone that it would be much better to articulate your position than to go for the easy slam? My view is clearly spelled out. What is your view, aside from what you might think about my mental abilities?
So who isn't?????? And why????
"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning
I take it her ex-husband is your brother, and the daughter is your niece? I admire the way you tell the story to distance yourself as much as possible while establishing sufficient relationship to make your knowledge of her situation sound plausible. Bottomline: She is a professional parasite... I grew up back in the old days when caring for children and a home was the WORK women did. You guys want to go back to the old days, then support your women and children.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
Fair enough. A child born to a single mom living in a slum and addicted to meth does not have the same opportunity as a George Bush to make of his life what he will. That child does not have equal opportunity because what his environment provides is not equal; he is behind from conception.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
Face it Libs like handouts, Conservatives don't..... Or wasn't that the whole purpose of this thread?????
"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning
Would that revelation make any difference? I admire the way you tell the story to distance yourself as much as possible while establishing sufficient relationship to make your knowledge of her situation sound plausible. And I like the way you've distanced yourself away from the crux of the problem: A socialist-parasitic society dependent on a goobermint that confiscated wealth from the producers and rewards laziness, irresponsibility, and sloth. I grew up back in the old days when caring for children and a home was the WORK women did. You guys want to go back to the old days, then support your women and children. Those days are over - along with the days the father fulfilled his financial responsibly and supported his children. Maintaining a household is only ONE responsibility, just like personal hygiene. You've choosen to ignore a major problem with a socialist nation: Subsidizing irresponsibility and sloth and penalizing responsibility and production. WHY are you so blind?
Shotguns weddings coming up! I can't wait for the women as chattel and can't own property.
"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"
That's one of the purposes... Somehow the liberals and leftists believe goobermint creates wealth, when instead all they do is destroy wealth and production - along with discouraging self-reliance and motivation.
Where is there a constitutional mandate to legislate "equal environmental opportunity"??
Sure he does. His journey may be more difficult, but he was born with a brain and a back, just like George Bush. A George Bush can still commit a crime and end up in prison, just like the child in the slum. Or...either can work hard, make the right choices and rise to the top. A George Bush can also be born addicted to meth. History has shown that certain presidents of this nation, walked around without shoes as a child. Correct me if I'm wrong, but is your argument really that some are born into money and some are not?
So the argument that one should get paid what you are worth doesn't enter into any of this? And those that can afford to pay them won't have some type of advantage? Your tax lawyer is the equal to that which the Bush's can afford to hire? I doubt it.
"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"
A woman who cared for her children and home used to be considered responsible; you call her slothful because she currently doesn't have a second job. Apparently she was productive in the Republican sense or she wouldn't be collecting unemployment now.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
Rags to riches... Criticisms: By social reformers and revolutionaries, who argue that only a handful of exceptionally capable and lucky persons are actually able to travel the "rags to riches" road, and that the great publicity given to such cases is an illusion designed to help keep the masses of the working class and the poor in line, and prevent them from agitating for an overall collective change in the direction of social equality.
LOL... BDS!! Paulite freak!! Missed doctor appt!!! Medication missed!!
HUH?? Don't confuse tasks with "jobs." She doesn't have ANY job, Lucy. It is ALL of our respective responsibility to earn a living. It is NOT the goobermint job. Apparently she was productive in the Republican sense or she wouldn't be collecting unemployment now. How so? Challenge: Please define "production in the Republican sense." Please define "production in the Democrat sense."
H. Wayne Huizenga Wayne was born in Chicago, Illinois. In his early teens, Wayne and his family moved to Florida, but he soon realized that his father was not the male figure he should look up to. He abused his wife, but the move to Florida was made in hopes to keep the marriage from divorce. However, Wayne’s dad did not change, and he continuously abused his family. Wayne went to high school and afterward moved back to Chicago to go to college, but he soon dropped out. He then signed up to be part of the Army reserves and trained. After training he went back to Florida, bought a truck, and began taking garbage out of his county. Eventually, the one garbage truck he had purchased grew into a highly successful business. It ran all throughout Southern Florida and soon became known as Waste Management Inc. Soon enough, Wayne’s company was known all over the U.S. Wayne also purchased Blockbuster stores, which became a huge success, and eventually merged it with Viacom. Throughout his lifetime, Wayne has been able to find three Fortune 500 Companies.
Ahhhhh. Truth in motivation soon becomes apparent. Nevermind. Any discussion would be in vain.
Criticisms: By social reformers and revolutionaries, who argue that only a handful of exceptionally capable and lucky persons are actually able to travel the "rags to riches" road, and that the great publicity given to such cases is an illusion designed to help keep the masses of the working class and the poor in line, and prevent them from agitating for an overall collective change in the direction of social equality. Translation: Give up your hopes and dreams that you can be a productive, self-sufficient citizen. Odds are you are chasing your tail because capitalism is an illusion; VIVA LA WORKER! Socialism is the only way to make this (sob, sniffle) fair.
Perhaps you would answer these questions - if it is unreasonable to demand that a business that can't make enough money to cover its operating expenses stay open, why is it reasonable to expect people to work for less money than it takes to support themselves? If a corporation like Walmart, for instance, is profitable, makes its top shareholders billionaires and yet pays its employees so poorly that they in turn need tax-payer supported services to survive - why is scorn heaped on the needy employee rather than the employer?
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
No. The argument is that in this culture, money buys opportunity.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
So does hard work and intelligent choices. Charlie Sheen has lots of money.
Please define "production in the Democrat sense." The relatively recent phenomenom of women permanently working outside the home other than as low or often non paid teachers and nurses is of a very recent occurrence, less than the last 50 years, out of our 235+ year history. And in that time most agree this country has been going down the tubes at an excellerated rate.
"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"
If it is unreasonable to demand that a business that can't make enough money to cover its operating expenses stay open, why is it reasonable to expect people to work for less money than it takes to support themselves? Firstly, the market of supply & demand dictates whether a business remains open. Secondly, your skills are a commodity of which any given market considers value. If Lucy possesses the skills of an NBA center, then Lucy's demand and value as a business asset reflects her demand. My business it not required to hire and compensate someone at a salary at which is based on their dictates. You advocate artificial price-controls and compensation regardless of supply and demand of skill. That has NEVER been the case in societal history. UNTIL 1917, Russia. If a corporation like Walmart, for instance, is profitable, makes its top shareholders billionaires and yet pays its employees so poorly that they in turn need tax-payer supported services to survive - why is scorn heaped on the needy employee rather than the employer? I don't know. What's your solution?
The word was productive. Productive in the Republican sense is economic activity. Please define "production in the Democrat sense." Would include but not exclusive to economic activity. I would say Jesus lead a productive life.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
Next time read more before you jump into a conversation. I am talking about so called conservatives tending to be against private sector employees demanding better wages and work conditions. I cited examples above where so called conservatives always seem to take the position that certain types of workers should be paid less and should not demand more in the private sector and in many cases blame the America worker (either blame his high salary of his uppity nature) for the offshoring to commie China.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
The correlation is obvious... ... But isn't more of a factor in exacerbated downfall of Late Great USA LBJ's Great Society/Plantation Act in 1964? Then the the Immigration Act of 1965 which imported 3rd Worlders instead of the ancestors - rather than those who'd shared the same values and built the US. Legalizing the Abortion Industry also contributed to our going down the tubes. Destroying family responsibly and creating a financial/moral dependence on goobermint instead of individual cratered the USA.
Thank you Horatio Alger. A poor, uneducated native of the Shafi`i (Sunni) Hadhramaut coast of south Yemen, Mohammed bin Laden emigrated to Saudi Arabia before World War I, initially working as a porter in Jeddah. In 1930, he started his own construction business and after coming to the attention of Abdul Aziz Ibn Saud, first monarch of Saudi Arabia, he eventually achieved such success that his family became known as "the wealthiest non-royal family in the kingdom." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_bin_Awad_bin_Laden Does that prove that equal opportunity exists in Saudi Arabia?
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
So now does skin color and demographic. The law and educational opportunity are skewed in favor also of those with dark pigment. Is this fair in your opinion?
George W. Bush seemed to attain success without either.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
Liberator and We The People jumped into this with the standard Rush Limboughvian talking point crap. I see one so called conservative so far has addressed my accusation that so called conservatives tend to be against private sector employees demanding better wages and work conditions. I cited examples above where so called conservatives always seem to take the position that certain types of workers should be paid less and should not demand more in the private sector and in many cases blame the America worker (either blame his high salary of his uppity nature) for the offshoring to commie China. I give examples of conservatives on multiple forums angry that union auto workers get paid what they get paid (and many times the pundits that fool the rubes exaggerate the pay). You get conservatives praising lower paying jobs in the South over say higher paying jobs in union plants up north. How is a worker making less money praise worthy? I remember that woman that told W Bush she worked 2 or 3 jobs to make ends meet and Bush praised that. I praise the woman but its a horrible sign that people make so little at one job they need to work other jobs. This has blowback effects on the economy like unsupervised children, health and stress problems, etc. But if this working mom tried to fight for higher wagers the conservatives would attack her for being greedy. They even did this on this forum when I proposed college athletes of sports that make billions in revenue be given a semi-pro salary. I got heated angry remarks (echoed on sports forums) that college players should be happy at getting room and board and a free education and should shut up and stop rocking the boat. I don't get why conservatives don't want employees in the private sector to be paid more???? If you read the comments above - they want low skilled labor to be paid less, as if say a janitor should be living in poverty because he is a useless person or some such intimation.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
At 5'2" Lucy's basketball aspirations (she did have them) went down the drain in high school and she became an accountant instead. I don't know. That's why your economic theory is a failure.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
When schools in low income communities equal those in high income areas, that will be true.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
George W. Bush seemed to attain success without either. That depends on what you consider success. You obviously consider it to be money. Sure he has money, but he's hated around the world, except in very small circles. Think GW could walk down the sidewalk in any major city without being beaten or killed? I don't call that success.
A friend who works in a clinic that provides court ordered services to children and adolescents confirms that. She says its not hard to figure out why kids end up in court, the adults are all working and there is no one to take care of the kids. If you read the comments above - they want low skilled labor to be paid less, as if say a janitor should be living in poverty because he is a useless person or some such intimation. Its all well and good to invoke market forces/supply and demand to justify wages insufficient to keep body and soul together, however if that's the case than the failure is not the working individuals, but the theory's.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
So then you would consider a man who is a loving and supportive husband and father, who treats others with respect and decency, abides by the law, is a good neighbor, etc to be successful even if his wages are insufficient to meet his family's needs and he must rely on taxpayer supported services to get by?
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
Next time read before you come to a conclusion. I've not seen ANY conservative take the position you accuse them of. Are you sure this isn't something you've made up in your head? Are you Destro?
That's kind of a hard question to answer. You seem to have to go to awful lengths to make a point. Are you sure the point you're making is worth it? I would consider a man who is a loving and supportive husband and father, who treats others with respect and decency, abides by the law, and is a good neighbor to be intelligent enough to live within his means and not need taxpayer supported services to get by. Many of us need help from time to time. That's what family and churches are for. Way too many of us look to government to 'take' that help from others.
I linked a couple of examples in the thread above - including McCain's economic advisor stating Americans make too much money and should get pay cuts. Please read before you waste my time. Learn to use the 'trace' button.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
If the other side weren't going to such great lengths to see what little social support the US has destroyed then the point wouldn't have to be made. Many of us need help from time to time. That's what family and churches are for. Way too many of us look to government to 'take' that help from others. Even the poor houses and work farms of old were government supported.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
A friend who works in a clinic that provides court ordered services to children and adolescents confirms that. She says its not hard to figure out why kids end up in court, the adults are all working and there is no one to take care of the kids. You both do realize why this is, I hope? It's because of never ending deficit spending, causing government, through the fed, to print ever more amounts of money to be placed into circulation further devaluing the dollar and causing inflation. It's because of your governments actions (and I do mean Republicans AND DEMOCRATS) implementing 'free trade' policies which ship our good manufacturing jobs overseas and not enforcing our immigration laws making Americans compete with illegal aliens over the remaining jobs. It's because of INFLATION that it now takes two incomes for an average family to make ends meet and the feminist movement who encouraged American women to enter the workforce. You've come a long way baby! lucysmom: If you read the comments above - they want low skilled labor to be paid less, as if say a janitor should be living in poverty because he is a useless person or some such intimation. That is an outright fabrication and a horrible lie to make up about your fellow American, simply because you don't agree with their political views. Who do you believe wants a janitor to live in poverty? Conservatives don't want ANYONE living in poverty and that is a bullshit leftist talking point and I'm actually saddened to even be addressing it.
McCain's economic advisor McCain's economic advisor?!? That is who you consider a conservative? And you have the nerve to tell me to please read before I waste your time? I've entered Wonderland...right?
OMG. I see. You're still stuck on Repub v Dem. Nevermind. Carry on.
If the dollar was devalued that would make importing into America more expensive and local made good less expensive and thus no need to offshore to nations like China. Where do you so called conservatives get your economic knowledge from? Rush "Pills" Limbough? We The People, I have listed EXAMPLES of conservatives not wanting people being paid more. That you are unable or unwilling to find it on this thread is your problem.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
That is who you consider a conservative? Yea, I do, dick.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
Have you noticed the kooky conservatives have come to resemble the old commies in that you have Trotskyites vs Lenists vs Marxists vs Stalinist vs Maoists all claiming that the other was not a true commie? In this case they apply this to degrees of their so called conservative ideology. I guess if they are going to claim Mccain is not a real conservative how can they claim Obama is a liberal socialist?
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
That is who you consider a conservative? Yea, I do, dick. Well then, you would be wrong. And from your reply, I sense that you already know that.
Do you have any idea how painful it would be for me to have to read every one of your posts on this thread, to find one certain post when I'm already certain that you haven't a clue as to what you're talking about?
Productive in the Republican sense is economic activity. [Productive in the Democratic sense... ...Would include but not exclusive to economic activity. I would say Jesus lead a productive life. a) The word in this case might be "bong." b) You explained NOTHING AT ALL about defining "productive" or "productivity" in a philosophy sense of Pub vs. Dem. Look Lucy - I don't have a magic decoder ring in my box of granola. Wanna try again? This time without inhaling.
LOL I tried reading the person's post earlier. Not even an entire pot of espresso and Volume VX of the Byeltsin Translation Manual could help.
What? You "do dick"? Have you met yukon?
I see. You're still stuck on Repub v Dem. Nevermind. Carry on. Lucy's fighting The Peoples War. That means she can't see beyond the hammer & sickle and bust of Lenin. Any intellectual honest observation and critical thinker understands America's politics and economy transcend mere party affiliation. That means BOTH parties have contributed to the FUBAR situation. That said, only the delusional, alternative-universe based partisan will blame ONLY one side or the other.
Sometimes when they parrot Conservative slogans I'm reminded of Mao's little red book.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
Check out some of CZ82's posts to me then.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
I'm not sure a decoder ring would do you any good. Wanna try again? This time without inhaling. How about you define productive and we'll go from there?
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
You thought it worthwile to enter a conversation mid-way without reading what was said before and getting the conversation's topic wrong. That is a failing on your part not mine.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
Yea, you and him are buddies in Goldi's crazy land, lib. Sorry I called that other guy a dick, though. Bad form on my part.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
I didn't have to "enter" any conservation you're involved in to know how it begins and how it ends - at the tip of a bong.
Bwaaahaa!! *eyeball roll* Sorry I called that other guy a dick, though. Bad form on my part. Thanks for clarifying your alternative intention.
Loooo-seee! It's you and the Left who live-by-the-slogan. And "read Mao's little red book." Don't be coy.
Don't sweat it. I usually don't put much weight behind anyone that believes John McCain's eco adviser is a conservative. Besides, I can be a dick. I do try not to be though.
Besides, I can be a dick. I do try not to be though. Kevin Allen Hassett is an American economist. He is best known for his work in macroeconomics and tax policy and for coauthoring Dow 36,000, published in 1999. Hassett is currently a senior fellow and director of economic policy studies at the American Enterprise Institute. He was John McCain's chief economic adviser in the 2000 presidential primaries and an economic adviser to the campaigns of George W. Bush in the 2004 presidential election and McCain in the presidential election of 2008. Since I left the American conservative movement I no longer care which faction gets to claim which is the more pure. To any reasonable person, Hassett is an American rightist/conservative/Republican.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
Like I said, you are yukon clone.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
THAT was cruel.
All men are created equal under god, or at least that's what I've always heard.. TRUE OR FALSE????? So if man was created to be equal then why don't they choose to be equal..... Why is it some men choose to be all they can be and some choose to do nothing... Maybe it's because some have pride, integrity, honesty, honor, strong morals, strength of character and other such good ideals(PRODUCTIVE). And some men have no clue what those concepts are, in fact I don't think they want to know (NONPRODUCTIVE). The PRODUCTIVE one's have no problem making a living for themselves and their families, the NONPRODUCTIVE ones can't and don't even try, instead they want a handout...... My question is why do Liberals feel "compassion" (or so they say) for NONPRODUCTIVE people and feel scorn for PRODUCTIVE ones .......why is that????? Is it maybe because they are part of the NONPRODUCTIVE group themselves.... Is it because they hate themselves, their lives and anybody who accidently comes into contact with them??? Is it because they want to feel good about themselves so they try to make you feel bad about yourself..... Is that the real reason why they try to shame the PRODUCTIVE ones into thinking it's their duty to "bankroll" the NONPRODUCTIVE ones...... By telling them they are being discrimatory towards them or being racist towards them....... when it was the choice of the NONPRODUCTIVE ones to be NONPRODUCTIVE..... On the other hand if the Liberals are actually PRODUCTIVE themselves, then why do they think it's up to everybody else to help the NONPRODUCTIVE ones while they do nothing about it?????? Why don't "THEY" bankroll the NONPRODUCTIVE ones and leave everybody else out of it??????? And if they are actually PRODUCTIVE then why in the hell would they want to be a Liberal???? they are only screwing themselves...... I guess some things are better left unknown, that's why I don't try to figure out what stupid people are thinking. If I understand what they are thinking, then it makes me just as stupid as they are.......
"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning
Truth hurts. You are known by the company you keep. From what I can see from a casual recall of the LP comments record, you are one of those confederates on LP that make that place what it is.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
Two slogans that immediately come to mind are: "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'" "Corporations don't pay taxes! People do!" Who on the left enforces party discipline like Grover Norquist? I don't belong to an organized party - I'm a Democrat Will Rogers
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
Gee, thanks Confucius. What's your next fortune cookie say? From what I can see from a casual recall of the LP comments record, you are one of those confederates on LP that make that place what it is. Keep on doing your research, kid.
You flatter yourself.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'" That's Reagan ridiculing Big Goobermint. NOT a slogan. Corporations don't pay taxes! People do!" Never heard of it. THIS is a conservative "slogan"?? I'd better start going to our meetings. Who on the left enforces party discipline like Grover Norquist? The entire Left is one giant monolithic Nuremberg rally. Norquist is a NWO elite and RINO slob. I don't belong to an organized party - I'm a Democrat Will Rogers You're living in a time warp Lucy, arencha? The Democrat Party of the 1930s wasn't yet the Communist Party it was to became 50 years later.
Right now he's holding California hostage.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
And who was asenior fellow at AEI, until his death is 09? Irving Kristol. Some AEI scholars are considered to be some of the leading architects of the second Bush administration's public policy.[7] More than twenty AEI scholars and fellows served either in a Bush administration policy post or on one of the government's many panels and commissions. Among the prominent former government officials now affiliated with AEI are former U.S. ambassador to the U.N. John Bolton, now an AEI senior fellow; former chairman of the National Endowment for the Humanities; Lynne Cheney, a longtime AEI senior fellow; former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, now an AEI senior fellow; former Dutch member of parliament Ayaan Hirsi Ali, an AEI visiting fellow; and former deputy secretary of defense Paul Wolfowitz, now an AEI visiting scholar. Other prominent individuals affiliated with AEI include Kevin Hassett, Frederick W. Kagan, Leon Kass, Charles Murray, Michael Novak, Norman J. Ornstein, Richard Perle, Radek Sikorski, Christina Hoff Sommers, and Peter J. Wallison. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Enterprise_Institute Now make fun of wiki again, then go read up and learn the difference between a neoconservative and a conservative.
Oh please....
Maybe you are right....the American conservative movement left me. Now you on the American right are a collection of kooks and cranks.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
But we're not socialists, like you leftists and the neoconservatives.
I don't support America's military anything. I find nothing wrong with Socialism in moderation having visited Canada and Europe for much of my life. I don't see the American experiment of the last 40 years expanding the uppward mobility of the population. Right now there is more upward mobility in England than in the USA.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
So go live in Canada or Europe!
I do and can. But your response is what I can expect from the degraded American right wing.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
Damned straight Stalin. Americans don't want a socialist country. Why is that so hard for you leftists to understand?
I prefer Bismark.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
I prefer capitalism. The vast majority of Americans do also.
LOL - you mean your imaginary version of capitalism that only ever existed in a text book and not in the real world.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
LOL - you mean your imaginary version of capitalism that only ever existed in a text book and not in the real world. Yeah, that one. :o)
I don't have to do that, I'm not a Liberal...... Libtard rule #11). I don’t want to know the truth, it’s inconvenient....
"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning
Well, that is socialism for you. It never works. Not even the creator of socialism thought it was a really good idea for reality. Only the people who lack even the smallest amounts of courage , are the ones who line up for their "death by government protection".
LOL - you mean your imaginary version of capitalism that only ever existed in a text book and not in the real world. Ironic, the term "capitalism" was coined by Marx.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
Wow, that must be why everyone over 65 in this country dies.
I see you need a set of rules to define things; I prefer to be free to think outside the box.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
The creator of socialism? Oh, you mean Jesus Christ.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
Wasn't he the one who said teach a man to fish rather than give him a fish?
***Naturally perfect and humble by default.***
lol- that is one of the most uneducated things I have read. Funny- but totally uneducated.
No, it's a Chinese proverb.
You must not read much of your stuff.
Thanks; I got curious after writing that and looked it up on Bing and that was the first hit. Further down was suggestion that Marx was quoted as saying somehting similar but debunked. The one I liked however was: ***Naturally perfect and humble by default.***
Only if you one can charge for the fishing lessons. Why should teachers always be the one's to give away the product of their labor? This is a capitalist nation. Yee Haw!!! Pay up or starve.
"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"
Feed a man a fish and he eats it; teach a man to fish and he sits in a boat all day drinking beer. The Chinese never came up with that one. That sounds All-American to me.
Wasn't he the one who said teach a man to fish rather than give him a fish? I find it funny Republicans, who advocate offshoring to China mix up Chinese sayings with those of Jesus Christ. Here is what the Lord of hosts had to say: Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Matthew 6:26 Also So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. Matthew 6:31-33 Man, Jesus was not into giving stuff away and no mention of toiling away at working at worldy things. I mean Jesus made men walk away from working good paying jobs! And said pay all your taxes without complaint!!!
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
Jesus had men who already knew how to fish for a living leave their jobs,,,,,,
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
It is an unfortunate truth, but a truth nonetheless, that the Bible is not a book for unbelievers. Until you are born again, the Bible's lessons are not for you. That is why it is completely silly that unbelievers hold the Bible out as an explanation for anything. You may as well cite a speed law in Virgina, in a discussion on the topic of the price of tea in China.
He seems to know it better than you do, dingbat.
I'd mention that Jesus didn't have a bad word to say about slavery either, but I'm not into discussing the Civil War tonight.
"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"
That makes no sense. How do you become born again if you haven't read the Bible?
"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"
Thank you. This is why I call her dingbat.
There are plenty of people who are born again, and haven't read the Bible. Being born again happens when a person surrenders to the Holy Spirit. Most people I know are born again- and THEN start to take the Bible seriously. Most people, (in my experience), go to church at some point, or have a friend or family member lead them to Christ , and then confess their sins and ask for the Holy Spirit to lead them out of some painful situation. THEN they are transformed (born again), and then learn about the lessons in the Bible and how to apply those lessons to their life. I can not imagine the lessons make much sense without the Holy Spirit. I became a Christ follower when I was very young, and I didn't really read the Bible until about three years ago. It makes perfect sense to me now- but that is after a lifetime of walking with God ,in my personal life. I teach the Bible to kids- it is very complex. Without seeing those people and stories thru the filter of spiritual re-birth, it is impossible to understand.
Oops.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
Most people, (in my experience), go to church at some point, or have a friend or family member lead them to Christ , and then confess their sins and ask for the Holy Spirit to lead them out of some painful situation. THEN they are transformed (born again), and then learn about the lessons in the Bible and how to apply those lessons to their life. Since being born again is a conscious decision, not something they were born into and learned by osmosis, they are really being ill informed if they haven't read at least the New Testament before making the biggest decision of their lives. I can definitely see why they make good Koch bait.
"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"
It makes perfect sense to me now- but that is after a lifetime of walking with God ,in my personal life. I suppose your 'personal life' and internet life are separate and one has nothing to do with the other. In your walks with God, did He ever mention Exodus 20, or did it just slip your mind? "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour" I've been watching you start the same rumor mongoring about a friend of ours all over again on this board, you just don't know when to quit. You slander and smear mel_living every chance you get, attempting to build yourself up, while tearing this lady down. You don't know squat about her. She never mentions you, I never mention you when we speak, you are not that important enough to dwell upon, her life is full and rewarding, she stays busy and happy, and here you are talking about this woman like you actually know her. The next time you discuss her, do everyone here a favor, in your accusations and the shit you drop about her, post proof of what you speak of, show these people here you of what you speak...or STFU! Living a Christian life, walking with God and heeding his teachings doesn't end when you sit down at your keyboard! I was raised a Christian too, but that does not make me one, I don't live the way I should, so I don't claim to be something I am not. jmho!
The general knowledge of the Bible permeates our world and our society. Almost everyone knows what the Bible is about. People have a general idea of the teachings, but you were talking about reading the Bible. My answer speaks directly to your statement. It is not necessary to have read the Bible to make a conscious decision to follow the teachings of Christ, and to walk out of the darkness and pain - and into an abundant life of riches and peace. For some people the peace of the Holy Spirit is all they need to know ,to make the choice to learn the deeper mysteries of the Bible. I have seen people transform their lives from crime, substance abuse, violence, rage, greed, illness of all kinds-by accepting Christ. Most of them didn't have a working knowledge of the Bible at the time they surrendered and chose a new life for themselves. That is just how it happens. I am just trying to help you understand.
I don't know much about mel living. I enjoyed her posts when she posted here though. Murron none of us are perfect. We all do wrong. If you ask for forgiveness when you do wrong. And you sincerely believe what Christ taught. I think that makes you a christian.
What about the men who died with Christ on the cross? They didn't read the Bible. What did Jesus say about them?
Mel is a wonderful person, she very active and still doing great things with minutemen project when she has time. DBR has, for several day now, slammed this woman again, hell, her and buck have even dropped attempted murder accusations about her at 4um, and her and buck both stabbed mel in the back again here again, think, yesterday, they just won't let it go. It makes all the difference in the world when you know the person being slandered...
The key word there is false. (False witness is not what you are talking about anyway.) I have never lied. I am good to let God judge my every word and deed. Again, an unbeliever tries to condemn and judge with the Bible ,and it is just silly. Anyway- I stand by everything I have said. I have offered nothing that has been false. You also don't understand gossip. Gossip is a triangulation. I took it all to her first- and I did not get her to cease her stalking or harassment. I am then free to talk about my experiences, where I want to, and with the motivation that my story helps someone else, who finds themselves in the same circumstances. Since my story is true, I am free to warn others of the danger. So yea, anything else?
Oh yeah! One of the reasons mel stopped posting was the stalking, DBR just never gave it a rest, at LP, Sally wouldn't even step in and stop it, mel came here and so did buck and DBR and continued the stalking...you lost a good poster and fantastic lady. I've had my say, so I'll just leave it at that, thank you.
Tell me where Jesus said you should not pay taxes to the govt.....
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
See Murron- that post of yours is perfect false testimony and gossip. I never said anything about her murdering anyone- other than I doubted that she murdered anyone. When you lie and attribute something to someone they never said- in order to discredit them in public- THAT is bearing false witness and gossip. Hope that clears that up. :)
Anyone seen mudboy lately?
That is more gossip, slander, and false witness, murron. I like how that worked out. Perfect way to illustrate the lesson.
No I have not seen him in a long time. I hope he is well.
I think a great way for anyone, including adults to learn about the Bible, is to read a children's Bible. It is just so much easier to start there. That is what I did when I really wanted to get into my Bible. I learned children's lessons for a year- first. But there are the A,B,C's of salvation. (Which is offered to every single person) Admit sin in is your life, Believe that Christ,( the son of God), died on the cross, Choose to follow Nothing in there about understanding the Bible, right?
I heard that Mudboy managed to get back on FreeRepublic again. Maybe that's the reason Doug From Upland decided to get back into the song parody business himself (Mainly on YouTube though) I'm thinking about getting back into it too.
But what about Bites?
Or if not bites. How about "Coral Snakes Venom"? That has a nice ring to it.
Sorry but the info I had on FR and Mudboy is wrong unless he is posting under another name. His last post there was in 2005, the year of his banning there.
What? Jesus never said that I should not pay taxes, that I owe, to the US government. He said give God what is God's and Ceaser what is Ceaser's. God doesn't care about money. I am told to store my treasures in Heaven- meaning, money does not feed my spirit and is not eternal. I am told to accept the authority over me, if that authority is placed by God. God cares about obedience, not taxes. Knowing that we can not be perfectly obedient, he gives us salvation- so we can keep trying. He rewards the diligent. Diligently trying.
I'm thinking of giving the "Progressive" donkey award (the replacement for the bites) to Goldi-Lox this week for the rediculous performance she put on at LibertyPost in order to make it a yukon GAYstapo only "progressive" Neo-CON site. and for the blank payee line check Faro bankathon. I think she probably picked up the idea from Jim Rob. He is also having his Faro Bankathon running. By the way some of Goldi's yukon GAYstapo people are here and I'm going to send you a list of them over LFmail soon. I think these SPIES are greatly responsible for the run of bannings that have occured at LP. (By spying on this site, Robin's Site and 4um for anti Goldi and anti El Pee posters that also post at El Pee.
Take heart, there is the fishing pole, and line to buy along with reel, hooks, weights, and tackle box.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
CS, I'm allegedly not banned on elPee. Goldi gave me a one month time out. Let's see if she is honest in a month. You've got a good point there about the GAYstapo.
Why would they need to read the Bible when they knew the author?
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
Don't get me wrong. As a christian. You should read and study the Bible. But you can get there through word of mouth too.
Goldi gave me a one month time out. Let's see if she is honest in a month. You've got a good point there about the GAYstapo. I think their allegiance to each other is related more to being of a common religion.
"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"
harrowup claims he is Jewish, so you might be onto something.
I agree. In my experience, when people are born again they want to read the Bible and know more. My remark was specific to the two thieves who were crucified with Jesus.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
I am told to accept the authority over me, if that authority is placed by God. Then you should not have any problems with socialism.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
Libtard rule #8). What I think and what I say sure be proof enough for you, I don’t need facts!!! There, that about cover it.....
"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning
I do have a problem with socialism. I think it is pure evil. Paying taxes is not socialism. I agree that the current tax structure is socialism. I agree that Obama is a socialist. I believe Obama is evil, and I didn't vote for him. But I do have to pay my taxes still, and work to get rid of Obama- in all the ways that are legal... because that is how the cookie crumbles.
Then please return your social security money. Or give it away.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
Libtard = Libertarian Retards.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
Definition: Libertarians promoting socialist government support for their programs. Also known as Libertarian Paternalists.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
It's also the new Dittohead password. Sorry I messed up the names in the "to" box.
"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"
So are you a member of that party or the other Libtard party (Liberal Retards)??
"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning
I quite the Republican party and I will never join another party. With that said, of the two party the GOP party is now the domain of know-nothing slogan spouting ditto headed dupes like yourself.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
Why don't you make like a tree and get out of here?
#2. To: Happy Quanzaa (#0)
Every state in America today except for two—Indiana and Wisconsin—has more government workers on the payroll than people manufacturing industrial goods. Consider California, which has the highest budget deficit in the history of the states. The not-so Golden State now has an incredible 2.4 million government employees—twice as many as people at work in manufacturing.
#3. To: lucysmom (#2)
California is also at the bottom of government employee to population ratio.
#4. To: Happy Quanzaa (#0)
We have moved decisively from a nation of makers to a nation of takers
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#5. To: jwpegler, Happy Quanzaa, Lucysmom (#4)
#6. To: Happy Quanzaa (#0)
(Edited)
Study after study has shown that states and cities could shave 20% to 40% off the cost of many services—fire fighting, public transportation, garbage collection, administrative functions, even prison operations—through competitive contracting to private providers.
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#7. To: Godwinson (#5)
This is the economic result of free trade
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#8. To: jwpegler, Happy Quanzaa (#4)
We have moved decisively from a nation of makers to a nation of takers
#9. To: lucysmom (#8)
Isn't it interesting the way the number of takers increases when the number of jobs decreases?
#10. To: Godwinson (#5)
Especially notice that Republican online forum members and on talk radio and their talking head hosts always attack the wages American workers earn as being too high.
#11. To: jwpegler (#7)
(Edited)
No, it's the economic result of power hungry politicians who keep creating more and more government agencies, departments and programs.
#12. To: lucysmom (#8)
Isn't it interesting the way the number of takers increases when the number of jobs decreases?
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#13. To: Godwinson (#5)
(Edited)
attack the wages American workers earn as being too high.
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#14. To: jwpegler (#13)
Government bureaucrats are not productive. In fact, for the most part they are counter-productive. Most of them should be made available to the market.
#15. To: Rek (#14)
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#16. To: jwpegler (#15)
(Edited)
What are you blathering about?
#17. To: Rek (#16)
Read a good US history book. The USA didn't just magically appear on the day you were born.
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#18. To: jwpegler, Rek, Lucysmom (#13)
(Edited)
Stop trying to tie private sector employees together with government bureaucrats.
#19. To: jwpegler, Rek (#17)
I've read many good history books. You leftists are the ones who are completely clueless with regards to U.S. history.
#20. To: Godwinson (#18)
Do you want me to link you to megapages on Freerepublic where fucking so called conservatives griped about the wages of union auto workers (private sector) way before the bail outs of GM?
#21. To: CZ82 (#20)
Well you can't really blame them because those people were getting paid way in excess of their productivity...... kinda like politicians.......
#22. To: Godwinson (#21)
Thank you for adding anecdotal evidence that so called conservatives as they exist online root for the devaluing of American labor.
#23. To: jwpegler (#12)
You have the cause and effect backwards. The number of jobs have decreased because the government has become larded up with parasites draining the life out of the productive segment of the economy.
#24. To: Godwinson (#18)
Do you want me to link you to megapages on Freerepublic where fucking so called conservatives griped about the wages of union auto workers (private sector) way before the bail outs of GM?
#25. To: CZ82, lucysmom (#22)
So in essence you think the auto workers are/were getting paid in line with their productivity.....
#26. To: lucysmom, CZ82, jwpegler (#24)
#27. To: Godwinson (#25)
So in essence you think the auto workers are/were getting paid in line with their productivity.....
#28. To: CZ82 (#27)
So what you're saying is "that's" the reason why most American auto workers are unemployed now.
#29. To: lucysmom (#28)
Neither.
#30. To: CZ82, lucysmom (#27)
So what you're saying is "that's" the reason why most American auto workers are unemployed now.
#31. To: CZ82, lucysmom (#29)
#32. To: CZ82 (#29)
So why then????
#33. To: Godwinson (#18)
(Edited)
Freerepublic
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#34. To: Godwinson (#31)
Notice how the right wingers fixate on auto unions over all other types of exported jobs when union and non union work not related to the auto industry have all went overseas.
#35. To: Godwinson (#31)
Notice how the right wingers fixate on auto unions
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#36. To: jwpegler (#33)
How many losers on Neo-Con Central are in a position to influence anything?
#37. To: Godwinson (#19)
(Edited)
I find you pretty clueless
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#38. To: lucysmom (#32)
What Godwinson said and I would add poor management and bad design decisions that disadvantaged US auto makers in a competitive market place.
#39. To: CZ82 (#22)
(Edited)
So in essence you think the auto workers are/were getting paid in line with their productivity.....
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#40. To: lucysmom (#36)
parrot popular niche ideas just as you do
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#41. To: CZ82 (#38)
(Edited)
maybe you shouldn't pay somebody $30 per hour to put screws in a dashboard when any idiot you bring in off the street can do that job for a lot less
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#42. To: jwpegler (#41)
It's harder to find a good plumber than it is to find a good lawyer in most places.
#43. To: jwpegler (#39)
They are at BMW, Mercedes and Toyota plants in south. But not at GM in Michigan or Ohio, which is why those states are economic disaster areas.
#44. To: jwpegler (#40)
I don't parrot anything. I pioneer.
#45. To: lucysmom (#43)
It looks like German auto workers are paid significantly more than American.
#46. To: CZ82 (#45)
I'll bet they didn't factor in (COL) cost of living in Germany???? It's expensive there, very expensive......
#47. To: lucysmom (#44)
(Edited)
How about sharing some of your successful, pioneering projects in economics.
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#48. To: lucysmom (#46)
(Edited)
You seem to think American workers should produce a German quality car while earning Chinese wages.
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#49. To: jwpegler (#47)
I started a new technology company in 2009. My wife also started a new services company a few months later. We both started these businesses at the bottom of the Great Recession.
#50. To: jwpegler, CZ82, lucysmom (#41)
(Edited)
maybe you shouldn't pay somebody $30 per hour to put screws in a dashboard when any idiot you bring in off the street can do that job for a lot less Yep, but it did work for 25 years or so when the entire rest of the world was destroyed after WWII. But it doesn't work any longer.
#51. To: jwpegler, lucysmom (#48)
American workers ARE producing German quality cars at German auto plants in America, without the UAW's help. All of these plants are in right to work states.
#52. To: jwpegler (#37)
I've been a Vice President at a large corporation and a Chief Technology Officer at another company. I've had customer, revenue, and innovation responsibility over thousands of people across the world.
#53. To: jwpegler (#35)
#54. To: jwpegler (#47)
It's been difficult. But we are not complaining.
#55. To: Godwinson (#53)
I don't care how clueless American car companies are. I would still protect them against free trade globalization which the GOP supports.
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#56. To: lucysmom (#54)
(Edited)
Actually you complain all the time about government, taxes and unions.
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#57. To: Godwinson (#52)
(Edited)
Sounds like you bounce around jobs a lot.
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#58. To: Godwinson (#51)
The majority of German cars in America are produced in assembly plants
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#59. To: lucysmom (#49)
who hasn't?
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#60. To: lucysmom (#46)
And cost of living isn't a factor in American wages?
#61. To: jwpegler (#47)
What will you do over the next 3 to 5 years, other than bellyache about the success of others?????
#62. To: jwpegler (#59)
You haven't. You don't have the initiative and drive to start any kind of business.
#63. To: jwpegler, lucysmom (#58)
The majority of German cars in America are produced in assembly plants WTF are you talking about???
#64. To: CZ82, lucysmom, jwpegler (#60)
Putting a car together on an assembly line doesn't take a lot of brains.....if the American cars was German quality then I would expect the workers to get paid somewhat more.
#65. To: Godwinson (#64)
Have you noticed lucy, they don't deny that their so called conservative outlook wants workers to be paid less and in their opinion the American worker is inferior and should be paid less?
#66. To: Godwinson (#64)
Have you noticed lucy, they don't deny that their so called conservative outlook wants workers to be paid less and in their opinion the American worker is inferior and should be paid less?
#67. To: CZ82 (#65)
(Edited)
I guess I'll ask you a stupid question then..... who deserves to make more money the engineer who designed the car that has a 4-8 year college degree, or the guy with the screw gun and 15 minutes training???????
#68. To: lucysmom, CZ82 (#67)
I guess I'll ask you a stupid question then..... who deserves to make more money the engineer who designed the car that has a 4-8 year college degree, or the guy with the screw gun and 15 minutes training???????
#69. To: jwpegler, lucysmom (#59)
You haven't. You don't have the initiative and drive to start any kind of business.
#70. To: Godwinson (#64)
Have you noticed lucy, they don't deny that their so called conservative outlook wants workers to be paid less and in their opinion the American worker is inferior and should be paid less?
#71. To: Godwinson, CZ82 (#68)
In many cases, like Joe the Plumber, these people delude themselves into thinking they are part of the upper class or will be soon enough so they support this unequal system because in their minds they will someday get there themselves and want to benefit from wage slave labor also.
#72. To: Rek (#69)
Donald Trump.... is that you posting on this little backwater chat forum with 13 posters?
#73. To: Godwinson (#68)
#74. To: CZ82, Godwinson (#73)
So instead of being happy being stupid I did something about it.... anybody can do it....
#75. To: lucysmom (#74)
You seem to conflate stupid with uneducated and smart with educated - they are not the same.
#76. To: lucysmom (#74)
Why would you wish to rob a janitor the dignity of knowing he had worked for his living and supported his family. You and your ilk would turn him into a looser who has to beg for his daily bread.
#77. To: CZ82, lucysmom (#76)
(Edited)
..... But I'd also bet he wasn't paid $30 an hour to sweep and mop either like "Screw gun Johnny".... if he was then somebody needs their head examined, kinda like the automobile executives.....
#78. To: CZ82 (#76)
I have no doubt he made his money because he put in a honest days work for an honest days pay........ as it should be..... But I'd also bet he wasn't paid $30 an hour to sweep and mop either like "Screw gun Johnny".... if he was then somebody needs their head examined, kinda like the automobile executives.....
#79. To: Happy Quanzaa (#0)
#80. To: Godwinson (#77)
What so called conservatives like CZ82 are saying subconsciously is that they want an inequality in society - they want separation of classes - this maybe a hold over from segregationist times when the Dixiecrats migrated into the GOP or it could be just classic class-ism (the old upstairs, downstairs model) - but is clear they feel a threat when groups they see as being subservient ask for more.
#81. To: We The People, Godwinson (#80)
BTW: Are you the Destro that I keep hearing about?
#82. To: jwpegler, lucysmom (#47)
I'll share one of my successful, pioneering experiences in business instead.
#83. To: jwpegler, lucysmom (#12)
(Edited)
You have the cause and effect backwards. The number of jobs have decreased because the government has become larded up with parasites draining the life out of the productive segment of the economy.
#84. To: Godwinson (#77)
What so called conservatives like CZ82 are saying subconsciously is that they want an inequality in society - they want separation of classes - this maybe a hold over from segregationist times when the Dixiecrats migrated into the GOP or it could be just classic class-ism (the old upstairs, downstairs model) - but is clear they feel a threat when groups they see as being subservient ask for more.
#85. To: We The People (#80)
What conservatives want is the nation that was founded. All men are CREATED equal, given equal opportunity to become what they will.
#86. To: Liberator (#82)
Thanks for embodying the American spirit, dream, and determination. I'm sure you've accomplished your achievements despite the goobmint "help."
#87. To: lucysmom (#85)
If you think all people are "given equal opportunity to become what they will", you're living in lala land.
#88. To: lucysmom (#85)
If you think all people are "given equal opportunity to become what they will", you're living in lala land
#89. To: Liberator (#83)
More outrageous: Her ex-husband does NOT provide any alimony. Why isn't his daughter his responibility?
#90. To: We The People (#87)
My view is clearly spelled out. What is your view, aside from what you might think about my mental abilities?
#91. To: lucysmom (#89)
#92. To: lucysmom (#89)
I take it her ex-husband is your brother, and the daughter is your niece?
#93. To: lucysmom (#89)
(Edited)
I grew up back in the old days when caring for children and a home was the WORK women did. You guys want to go back to the old days, then support your women and children.
#94. To: CZ82, Lucysmom (#91)
Face it Libs like handouts, Conservatives don't..... Or wasn't that the whole purpose of this thread?????
#95. To: lucysmom, We The People (#90)
(Edited)
That child does not have equal opportunity because what his environment provides is not equal; he is behind from conception.
#96. To: lucysmom (#90)
A child born to a single mom living in a slum and addicted to meth does not have the same opportunity as a George Bush to make of his life what he will.
#97. To: We The People (#96)
(Edited)
A George Bush can still commit a crime and end up in prison, just like the child in the slum. Or...either can work hard, make the right choices and rise to the top.
#98. To: Liberator (#92)
You've choosen to ignore a major problem with a socialist nation: Subsidizing irresponsibility and sloth and penalizing responsibility and production. WHY are you so blind?
#99. To: Liberator (#95)
#100. To: We The People (#96)
His journey may be more difficult, but he was born with a brain and a back, just like George Bush....
#101. To: lucysmom (#98)
A woman who cared for her children and home used to be considered responsible; you call her slothful because she currently doesn't have a second job.
#102. To: lucysmom (#90)
A child born to a single mom living in a slum and addicted to meth does not have the same opportunity as a George Bush to make of his life what he will.
#103. To: lucysmom (#98)
Apparently she was productive in the Republican sense
#104. To: We The People (#99)
Rags to riches...
#105. To: Liberator (#94)
Somehow the liberals and leftists believe goobermint creates wealth, when instead all they do is destroy wealth and production - along with discouraging self-reliance and motivation.
#106. To: We The People (#96)
History has shown that certain presidents of this nation, walked around without shoes as a child. Correct me if I'm wrong, but is your argument really that some are born into money and some are not?
#107. To: lucysmom (#106)
No. The argument is that in this culture, money buys opportunity.
#108. To: Liberator (#101)
(Edited)
Please define "production in the Republican sense."
#109. To: lucysmom (#105)
(Edited)
Perhaps you would answer these questions...
#110. To: Liberator (#101)
Please define "production in the Republican sense."
#111. To: We The People (#80)
Not given their equal share by government, via taking away private property from someone else.
#112. To: Rek (#108)
The relatively recent phenomenom of women permanently working outside the home other than as low or often non paid teachers and nurses is of a very recent occurrence, less than the last 50 years, out of our 235+ year history. And in that time most agree this country has been going down the tubes at an excellerated rate.
#113. To: We The People (#102)
#114. To: lucysmom (#106)
The argument is that in this culture, money buys opportunity.
#115. To: We The People (#107)
So does hard work and intelligent choices.
#116. To: Liberator, lucysmom, We The People (#111)
#117. To: Liberator (#109)
If Lucy possesses the skills of an NBA center, then Lucy's demand and value as a business asset reflects her demand.
#118. To: Liberator (#114)
The law and educational opportunity are skewed in favor also of those with dark pigment.
#119. To: lucysmom (#115)
So does hard work and intelligent choices.
#120. To: Godwinson (#116)
I remember that woman that told W Bush she worked 2 or 3 jobs to make ends meet and Bush praised that. I praise the woman but its a horrible sign that people make so little at one job they need to work other jobs. This has blowback effects on the economy like unsupervised children, health and stress problems, etc.
#121. To: We The People (#119)
That depends on what you consider success. You obviously consider it to be money.
#122. To: Godwinson (#111)
Next time read more before you jump into a conversation. I am talking about so called conservatives tending to be against private sector employees demanding better wages and work conditions. I cited examples above where so called conservatives always seem to take the position that certain types of workers should be paid less and should not demand more in the private sector and in many cases blame the America worker (either blame his high salary of his uppity nature) for the offshoring to commie China.
#123. To: lucysmom (#121)
So then you would consider a man who is a loving and supportive husband and father, who treats others with respect and decency, abides by the law, is a good neighbor, etc to be successful even if his wages are insufficient to meet his family's needs and he must rely on taxpayer supported services to get by?
#124. To: We The People (#122)
(Edited)
Next time read before you come to a conclusion. I've not seen ANY conservative take the position you accuse them of. Are you sure this isn't something you've made up in your head?
#125. To: We The People (#123)
Are you sure the point you're making is worth it?
#126. To: lucysmom, Godwinson (#120)
I remember that woman that told W Bush she worked 2 or 3 jobs to make ends meet and Bush praised that. I praise the woman but its a horrible sign that people make so little at one job they need to work other jobs. This has blowback effects on the economy like unsupervised children, health and stress problems, etc.
#127. To: Godwinson (#124)
I've not seen ANY conservative take the position you accuse them of.
#128. To: lucysmom (#125)
If the other side weren't going to such great lengths to see what little social support the US has destroyed then the point wouldn't have to be made.
#129. To: We The People, lucysmom, Godwinson (#126)
It's because of never ending deficit spending, causing government, through the fed, to print ever more amounts of money to be placed into circulation further devaluing the dollar and causing inflation.
#130. To: We The People (#127)
McCain's economic advisor?!?
#131. To: We The People, lucysmom (#128)
#132. To: Godwinson (#130)
McCain's economic advisor?!?
#133. To: Godwinson (#129)
We The People, I have listed EXAMPLES of conservatives not wanting people being paid more. That you are unable or unwilling to find it on this thread is your problem.
#134. To: lucysmom (#110)
The word was productive.
#135. To: We The People, Godwinson (#133)
Do you have any idea how painful it would be for me to have to read every one of your posts on this thread, to find one certain post when I'm already certain that you haven't a clue as to what you're talking about?
#136. To: Godwinson, We The People (#130)
Yea, I do, dick.
#137. To: We The People, lucysmom (#128)
OMG.
#138. To: Godwinson (#131)
Have you noticed the kooky conservatives have come to resemble the old commies in that you have Trotskyites vs Lenists vs Marxists vs Stalinist vs Maoists all claiming that the other was not a true commie?
#139. To: We The People (#133)
Do you have any idea how painful it would be for me to have to read every one of your posts on this thread, to find one certain post when I'm already certain that you haven't a clue as to what you're talking about?
#140. To: Liberator (#134)
Look Lucy - I don't have a magic decoder ring in my box of granola.
#141. To: We The People (#133)
#142. To: Liberator, We The People (#136)
Have you met yukon?
#143. To: Godwinson (#141)
You thought it worthwile to enter a conversation mid-way without reading what was said before and getting the conversation's topic wrong.
#144. To: Godwinson, We The People (#142)
Yea, you and him are buddies in Goldi's crazy land, lib.
#145. To: lucysmom, Godwinson, We The People (#138)
Sometimes when they parrot Conservative slogans I'm reminded of Mao's little red book.
#146. To: Godwinson (#142)
Sorry I called that other guy a dick, though.
#147. To: We The People (#146)
Don't sweat it. I usually don't put much weight behind anyone that believes John McCain's eco adviser is a conservative.
#148. To: Liberator (#143)
I didn't have to "enter" any conservation you're involved in to know how it begins and how it ends - at the tip of a bong.
#149. To: Godwinson (#148)
Like I said, you are yukon clone.
#150. To: All (#0)
FOOD FOR THOUGHT
#151. To: Liberator (#149)
#152. To: Liberator (#145)
Loooo-seee! It's you and the Left who live-by-the-slogan. And "read Mao's little red book."
#153. To: Godwinson (#151)
(Edited)
You are known by the company you keep.
#154. To: CZ82 (#150)
FOOD FOR THOUGHT
#155. To: lucysmom (#152)
Two slogans that immediately come to mind are:
#156. To: Liberator (#155)
Norquist is a NWO elite and RINO slob.
#157. To: Godwinson (#147)
(Edited)
To any reasonable person, Hassett is an American rightist/conservative/Republican.
#158. To: Godwinson (#147)
Since I left the American conservative movement
#159. To: We The People (#158)
Since I left the American conservative movement Oh please....
#160. To: Godwinson (#159)
Now you on the American right are a collection of kooks and cranks.
#161. To: We The People (#160)
But we're not socialists, like you leftists and the neoconservatives.
#162. To: Godwinson (#161)
I find nothing wrong with Socialism in moderation having visited Canada and Europe for much of my life.
#163. To: We The People (#162)
So go live in Canada or Europe!
#164. To: Godwinson (#163)
But your response is what I can expect from the degraded American right wing.
#165. To: We The People (#164)
Damned straight Stalin.
#166. To: Godwinson (#165)
#167. To: We The People (#166)
I prefer capitalism.
#168. To: Godwinson (#167)
I prefer capitalism.
#169. To: lucysmom (#154)
You flatter yourself.
#170. To: Happy Quanzaa (#0)
#171. To: Godwinson, We The People (#167)
I prefer capitalism.
#172. To: diva betsy ross (#170)
Only the people who lack even the smallest amounts of courage , are the ones who line up for their "death by government protection".
#173. To: CZ82 (#169)
Libtard rule #11). I don’t want to know the truth, it’s inconvenient....
#174. To: diva betsy ross, Happy Quanzaa, lucysmom, Skip Intro (#170)
Not even the creator of socialism thought it was a really good idea for reality
#175. To: Godwinson (#174)
The creator of socialism? Oh, you mean Jesus Christ.
#176. To: Godwinson (#174)
#177. To: harrowup (#175)
Wasn't he the one who said teach a man to fish rather than give him a fish?
#178. To: diva betsy ross (#176)
lol- that is one of the most uneducated things I have read.
#179. To: Skip Intro (#177)
No, it's a Chinese proverb.
Feed a man a fish and he eats it; teach a man to fish and he sits in a boat all day drinking beer.
#180. To: harrowup (#175)
(Edited)
Wasn't he the one who said teach a man to fish rather than give him a fish?
#181. To: harrowup (#179)
The one I liked however was:
#182. To: harrowup, diva betsy ross, Skip Intro, lucysmom (#175)
The creator of socialism? Oh, you mean Jesus Christ.
#183. To: Rek, harrowup (#180)
Only if you one can charge for the fishing lessons. Why should teachers always be the one's to give away the product of their labor? This is a capitalist nation. Yee Haw!!! Pay up or starve.
#184. To: Godwinson (#182)
(Edited)
#185. To: diva betsy ross (#184)
#186. To: Godwinson (#183)
Jesus had men who already knew how to fish for a living leave their jobs,,,,,,
#187. To: diva betsy ross (#184)
It is an unfortunate truth, but a truth nonetheless, that the Bible is not a book for unbelievers. Until you are born again, the Bible's lessons are not for you.
#188. To: Rek (#187)
That makes no sense. How do you become born again if you haven't read the Bible?
#189. To: Rek (#187)
(Edited)
#190. To: Rek (#186)
I'd mention that Jesus didn't have a bad word to say about slavery either, but I'm not into discussing the Civil War tonight.
#191. To: diva betsy ross (#189)
There are plenty of people who are born again, and haven't read the Bible. Being born again happens when a person surrenders to the Holy Spirit. Most people I know are born again- and THEN start to take the Bible seriously.
#192. To: diva betsy ross, Rek, A K A Stone (#189)
I became a Christ follower when I was very young, and I didn't really read the Bible until about three years ago.
#193. To: Rek (#191)
#194. To: Murron (#192)
#195. To: Rek (#187)
That makes no sense. How do you become born again if you haven't read the Bible?
#196. To: A K A Stone (#194)
#197. To: Murron (#192)
#198. To: A K A Stone (#196)
#199. To: diva betsy ross (#184)
#200. To: Murron (#196)
#201. To: diva betsy ross (#200)
#202. To: Murron (#198)
#203. To: A K A Stone (#201)
#204. To: A K A Stone (#194)
#205. To: A K A Stone (#201)
The Fed EXPOSED!!! The FARO RESERVE BANK!!!
#206. To: Coral Snake (#205)
#207. To: All (#206)
#208. To: A K A Stone (#201)
The Fed EXPOSED!!! The FARO RESERVE BANK!!!
#209. To: Godwinson (#199)
(Edited)
#210. To: A K A Stone (#207)
The Fed EXPOSED!!! The FARO RESERVE BANK!!!
#211. To: Rek (#180)
Only if you one can charge for the fishing lessons. Why should teachers always be the one's to give away the product of their labor? This is a capitalist nation. Yee Haw!!! Pay up or starve.
#212. To: Coral Snake (#210)
#213. To: A K A Stone (#195)
What about the men who died with Christ on the cross? They didn't read the Bible. What did Jesus say about them?
#214. To: lucysmom (#213)
Why would they need to read the Bible when they knew the author?
#215. To: Fred Mertz (#212)
CS, I'm allegedly not banned on elPee.
#216. To: Rek (#215)
#217. To: A K A Stone (#214)
Don't get me wrong. As a christian. You should read and study the Bible. But you can get there through word of mouth too.
#218. To: diva betsy ross (#209)
What? Jesus never said that I should not pay taxes, that I owe, to the US government. He said give God what is God's and Ceaser what is Ceaser's. God doesn't care about money. I am told to store my treasures in Heaven- meaning, money does not feed my spirit and is not eternal.
#219. To: lucysmom (#173)
(Edited)
see you need a set of rules to define things; I prefer to be free to think outside the box.
#220. To: Godwinson (#218)
#221. To: diva betsy ross (#220)
I do have a problem with socialism. I think it is pure evil.
#222. To: CZ82, lucysmom (#219)
Libtard
#223. To: Godwinson, CZ82 (#222)
Libtard = Libertarian Retards.
#224. To: lucysmomGodwinson, CZ82, (#223)
(Edited)
Libtard = Libertarian Retards.
#225. To: Godwinson (#222)
Libtard = Libertarian Retards.
#226. To: CZ82 (#225)
So are you a member of that party or the other Libtard party (Liberal Retards)??
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