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Corrupt Government
See other Corrupt Government Articles

Title: Nation of Takers, Not Makers~more work for govt. than manufacturing, farming, fishing, forestry, mining & utilities combined
Source: WSJ
URL Source: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100 ... 4050204576219073867182108.html
Published: Apr 1, 2011
Author: STEPHEN MOORE
Post Date: 2011-04-01 09:06:01 by Happy Quanzaa
Keywords: Obama-doma-ding-dong
Views: 193018
Comments: 226

We've Become a Nation of Takers, Not Makers

More Americans work for the government than in manufacturing, farming, fishing, forestry, mining and utilities combined.

If you want to understand better why so many states—from New York to Wisconsin to California—are teetering on the brink of bankruptcy, consider this depressing statistic: Today in America there are nearly twice as many people working for the government (22.5 million) than in all of manufacturing (11.5 million). This is an almost exact reversal of the situation in 1960, when there were 15 million workers in manufacturing and 8.7 million collecting a paycheck from the government.

It gets worse. More Americans work for the government than work in construction, farming, fishing, forestry, manufacturing, mining and utilities combined. We have moved decisively from a nation of makers to a nation of takers. Nearly half of the $2.2 trillion cost of state and local governments is the $1 trillion-a-year tab for pay and benefits of state and local employees. Is it any wonder that so many states and cities cannot pay their bills?

Every state in America today except for two—Indiana and Wisconsin—has more government workers on the payroll than people manufacturing industrial goods. Consider California, which has the highest budget deficit in the history of the states. The not-so Golden State now has an incredible 2.4 million government employees—twice as many as people at work in manufacturing. New Jersey has just under two-and-a-half as many government employees as manufacturers. Florida's ratio is more than 3 to 1. So is New York's.

Even Michigan, at one time the auto capital of the world, and Pennsylvania, once the steel capital, have more government bureaucrats than people making things. The leaders in government hiring are Wyoming and New Mexico, which have hired more than six government workers for every manufacturing worker.

Now it is certainly true that many states have not typically been home to traditional manufacturing operations. Iowa and Nebraska are farm states, for example. But in those states, there are at least five times more government workers than farmers. West Virginia is the mining capital of the world, yet it has at least three times more government workers than miners. New York is the financial capital of the world—at least for now. That sector employs roughly 670,000 New Yorkers. That's less than half of the state's 1.48 million government employees.

Don't expect a reversal of this trend anytime soon. Surveys of college graduates are finding that more and more of our top minds want to work for the government. Why? Because in recent years only government agencies have been hiring, and because the offer of near lifetime security is highly valued in these times of economic turbulence. When 23-year-olds aren't willing to take career risks, we have a real problem on our hands. Sadly, we could end up with a generation of Americans who want to work at the Department of Motor Vehicles.

The employment trends described here are explained in part by hugely beneficial productivity improvements in such traditional industries as farming, manufacturing, financial services and telecommunications. These produce far more output per worker than in the past. The typical farmer, for example, is today at least three times more productive than in 1950.

Where are the productivity gains in government? Consider a core function of state and local governments: schools. Over the period 1970-2005, school spending per pupil, adjusted for inflation, doubled, while standardized achievement test scores were flat. Over roughly that same time period, public-school employment doubled per student, according to a study by researchers at the University of Washington. That is what economists call negative productivity.

But education is an industry where we measure performance backwards: We gauge school performance not by outputs, but by inputs. If quality falls, we say we didn't pay teachers enough or we need smaller class sizes or newer schools. If education had undergone the same productivity revolution that manufacturing has, we would have half as many educators, smaller school budgets, and higher graduation rates and test scores.

The same is true of almost all other government services. Mass transit spends more and more every year and yet a much smaller share of Americans use trains and buses today than in past decades. One way that private companies spur productivity is by firing underperforming employees and rewarding excellence. In government employment, tenure for teachers and near lifetime employment for other civil servants shields workers from this basic system of reward and punishment. It is a system that breeds mediocrity, which is what we've gotten.

Most reasonable steps to restrain public-sector employment costs are smothered by the unions. Study after study has shown that states and cities could shave 20% to 40% off the cost of many services—fire fighting, public transportation, garbage collection, administrative functions, even prison operations—through competitive contracting to private providers. But unions have blocked many of those efforts. Public employees maintain that they are underpaid relative to equally qualified private-sector workers, yet they are deathly afraid of competitive bidding for government services.

President Obama says we have to retool our economy to "win the future." The only way to do that is to grow the economy that makes things, not the sector that takes things.

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#63. To: jwpegler, lucysmom (#58)

The majority of German cars in America are produced in assembly plants WTF are you talking about???

It seems your claim to knowledge is limited. Assembly plants are not manufacturing plants. Assembly plants just bolt together the parts manufacturing elsewhere.

"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.

Godwinson  posted on  2011-04-02   11:20:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: CZ82, lucysmom, jwpegler (#60)

Putting a car together on an assembly line doesn't take a lot of brains.....if the American cars was German quality then I would expect the workers to get paid somewhat more.

Have you noticed lucy, they don't deny that their so called conservative outlook wants workers to be paid less and in their opinion the American worker is inferior and should be paid less?

"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.

Godwinson  posted on  2011-04-02   11:23:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: Godwinson (#64)

Have you noticed lucy, they don't deny that their so called conservative outlook wants workers to be paid less and in their opinion the American worker is inferior and should be paid less?

We didn't say inferior, you did..... But if you think the term does actually apply then go ahead and use it.....

It all boils down to being paid for what you know!!!! (not who YOU blow like in the world you live in)..... There, is that simplistic enough for you????

I guess I'll ask you a stupid question then..... who deserves to make more money the engineer who designed the car that has a 4-8 year college degree, or the guy with the screw gun and 15 minutes training???????

Simple question with only one answer....... (I have $20 on this with Stone).

"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning

CZ82  posted on  2011-04-02   11:36:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: Godwinson (#64)

Have you noticed lucy, they don't deny that their so called conservative outlook wants workers to be paid less and in their opinion the American worker is inferior and should be paid less?

Yep. They are like an abusive spouse verbally attacking the worth of the mate they wish to dominate and control.

You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand

lucysmom  posted on  2011-04-02   11:46:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: CZ82 (#65) (Edited)

I guess I'll ask you a stupid question then..... who deserves to make more money the engineer who designed the car that has a 4-8 year college degree, or the guy with the screw gun and 15 minutes training???????

I don't believe anyone here thinks that all people should earn the same amount of money without regard to the job done or preparation required to do that job. The guy with the screw gun may not "deserve" to travel through life first cabin, however he does "deserve" wages sufficient to provide both subsistence and dignity for himself and his family.

"Necessitous men are not free men." Liberty requires opportunity to make a living - a living decent according to the standard of the time, a living which gives man not only enough to live by, but something to live for.

www.austincc.edu/lpatrick...fdr36acceptancespeech.htm

You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand

lucysmom  posted on  2011-04-02   12:12:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: lucysmom, CZ82 (#67)

I guess I'll ask you a stupid question then..... who deserves to make more money the engineer who designed the car that has a 4-8 year college degree, or the guy with the screw gun and 15 minutes training???????

Again, with that statement CZ82 is showing is disdain for workers who are not of the "owner or executive" class. The worker should be a wage slave who is lucky those above him are allowing him to breathe the same air as they do. In many cases, like Joe the Plumber, these people delude themselves into thinking they are part of the upper class or will be soon enough so they support this unequal system because in their minds they will someday get there themselves and want to benefit from wage slave labor also.

What is lost is the old Henry Ford ideal where he wanted his employees to be able to earn enough to also afford to but his cars.

"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.

Godwinson  posted on  2011-04-02   12:32:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: jwpegler, lucysmom (#59)

You haven't. You don't have the initiative and drive to start any kind of business.

Donald Trump.... is that you posting on this little backwater chat forum with 13 posters?

"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"

Rek  posted on  2011-04-02   12:36:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: Godwinson (#64)

Have you noticed lucy, they don't deny that their so called conservative outlook wants workers to be paid less and in their opinion the American worker is inferior and should be paid less?

Yet been proven over and over that American workers and professionals consistently are the most hard working, efficient and responsible in the world. The only problem to the corps, they want the pay to go with it.

"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"

Rek  posted on  2011-04-02   12:42:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: Godwinson, CZ82 (#68)

In many cases, like Joe the Plumber, these people delude themselves into thinking they are part of the upper class or will be soon enough so they support this unequal system because in their minds they will someday get there themselves and want to benefit from wage slave labor also.

What is ignored by CZ's question is how valuable is the engineer's design without the guy with the screw gun? How many cars can the engineer build by himself?

You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand

lucysmom  posted on  2011-04-02   12:51:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: Rek (#69)

Donald Trump.... is that you posting on this little backwater chat forum with 13 posters?

LOL!

You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand

lucysmom  posted on  2011-04-02   12:53:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: Godwinson (#68)

Again, with that statement CZ82 is showing is disdain for workers who are not of the "owner or executive" class.

I'm not an executive or an owner, I'm in the worker class.... if you paid any attention to what I've said in my posts over the last month then you would know that..... but the Liberal mantra doesn't allow learning or listening does it.....

What is lost is the old Henry Ford ideal where he wanted his employees to be able to earn enough to also afford to buy his cars.

They still can......

My point is and I know it's lost on you but......... being paid for what you know encourages people to get an education to better themselves. If they really want wages "Sufficient to provide both sustenance and dignity for himself and his family" then they will do so, if not then that's their business not mine..... or yours for that matter.....

I started out working in a restaurant when I was 16 making $1.90 an hour... after a few months I figured out I didn't want to be a cook/janitor my entire life making minimum wage .... I also realized I needed an education to make that happen, so I went and joined the military and I got one... It got me to where I am today and I'm happy with it..... So instead of being happy being stupid I did something about it.... anybody can do it.... even "Joe the Screw gun guy"....... If more people had the same outlook on life the Democrat party would have ceased to exist a long time ago..... and the world would be a better place..... But the Democrats don't believe in that and don't want you to be smart, they like you stupid so you'll vote for them.......

You learn alot of things when you actually live in the real world versus a dream world.... try it sometime you might like it......

"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning

CZ82  posted on  2011-04-02   13:20:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: CZ82, Godwinson (#73)

So instead of being happy being stupid I did something about it.... anybody can do it....

You seem to conflate stupid with uneducated and smart with educated - they are not the same.

The world needs janitors so why shouldn't they be paid well enough to provide sustenance and dignity?

I'm having lunch this afternoon with a friend I've known since high school. His father was a janitor. On one janitor's income his dad supported his mother, brother, and him, bought a modest house, as well as a vacation home. When he retired, he had a pension and health benefits through his union.

Why would you wish to rob a janitor the dignity of knowing he had worked for his living and supported his family. You and your ilk would turn him into a looser who has to beg for his daily bread.

You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand

lucysmom  posted on  2011-04-02   13:56:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: lucysmom (#74)

You seem to conflate stupid with uneducated and smart with educated - they are not the same.

If you decide to sit on your butt, have no pride in yourself, not want to learn anything or demand something for nothing then you're stupid. If you have the inner drive to be something more than you are for yourself and or your family, and choose to learn something from past experiences/mistakes, .... then you're a smart person ... books alone can't make you smart.... if you don't have any common sense then the books you read are useless........ that simple enough for you????

"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning

CZ82  posted on  2011-04-02   16:34:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: lucysmom (#74)

Why would you wish to rob a janitor the dignity of knowing he had worked for his living and supported his family. You and your ilk would turn him into a looser who has to beg for his daily bread.

I have no doubt he made his money because he put in a honest days work for an honest days pay........ as it should be..... But I'd also bet he wasn't paid $30 an hour to sweep and mop either like "Screw gun Johnny".... if he was then somebody needs their head examined, kinda like the automobile executives.....

Going out and making an honest living I have no problem with... But making a living by making outrageous contract demands of the taxpayers who work harder and make less than them, that's what I have a problem with.....

But your side of the fence doesn't seem to have a problem with that.... do they?????

"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning

CZ82  posted on  2011-04-02   16:46:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: CZ82, lucysmom (#76) (Edited)

..... But I'd also bet he wasn't paid $30 an hour to sweep and mop either like "Screw gun Johnny".... if he was then somebody needs their head examined, kinda like the automobile executives.....

What so called conservatives like CZ82 are saying subconsciously is that they want an inequality in society - they want separation of classes - this maybe a hold over from segregationist times when the Dixiecrats migrated into the GOP or it could be just classic class-ism (the old upstairs, downstairs model) - but is clear they feel a threat when groups they see as being subservient ask for more.

"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.

Godwinson  posted on  2011-04-03   11:19:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: CZ82 (#76)

I have no doubt he made his money because he put in a honest days work for an honest days pay........ as it should be..... But I'd also bet he wasn't paid $30 an hour to sweep and mop either like "Screw gun Johnny".... if he was then somebody needs their head examined, kinda like the automobile executives.....

No, he wasn't paid $30 an hour back in the 60s. He was paid enough to own two homes and support his family on his paycheck alone in the SF bay area.

Going out and making an honest living I have no problem with... But making a living by making outrageous contract demands of the taxpayers who work harder and make less than them, that's what I have a problem with.....

"Making a living" is the operative phrase.

According to San Mateo County HR department pay for a custodian (2011) starts at $17.42 an hour and tops out at $21.77 an hour. The family income needed for self-sufficiency as of 2006 was $31.94 an hour for a family of three. (There is no allotment for savings and no room for unexpected needs or emergencies that can threaten to cut into any of the necessities, such as food or shelter.)

You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand

lucysmom  posted on  2011-04-03   12:44:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: Happy Quanzaa (#0)

"Republicans whine and Republicans bitch/Our rich are too poor and our poor are too rich. "

Skip Intro  posted on  2011-04-03   12:48:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: Godwinson (#77)

What so called conservatives like CZ82 are saying subconsciously is that they want an inequality in society - they want separation of classes - this maybe a hold over from segregationist times when the Dixiecrats migrated into the GOP or it could be just classic class-ism (the old upstairs, downstairs model) - but is clear they feel a threat when groups they see as being subservient ask for more.

What conservatives want is the nation that was founded. All men are CREATED equal, given equal opportunity to become what they will.

Not given their equal share by government, via taking away private property from someone else.

What you seem to want is socialism. Am I correct about that?

BTW: Are you the Destro that I keep hearing about?

We The People  posted on  2011-04-03   12:50:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: We The People, Godwinson (#80)

BTW: Are you the Destro that I keep hearing about?

Hmmm...

Liberator  posted on  2011-04-03   12:59:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: jwpegler, lucysmom (#47)

I'll share one of my successful, pioneering experiences in business instead.

I was the VP of Engineering and a member of the Executive Team at a startup company that we grew from 0 employees to 6,500 employees in 7 years. The average salary was about $90,000 plus benefits.

How many jobs have you created? How many of those were high paying, high technology jobs???

I started a new technology company in 2009. My wife also started a new services company a few months later. We both started these businesses at the bottom of the Great Recession. It's been difficult. But we are not complaining. We are moving forward. Come ask us in 3 to 5 years how many jobs we've created. It will be a bunch.

What will you do over the next 3 to 5 years, other than bellyache about the success of others?????

Excellent. Tip o' the cap.

Thanks for embodying the American spirit, dream, and determination. I'm sure you've accomplished your achievements despite the goobmint "help."

Liberator  posted on  2011-04-03   13:02:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: jwpegler, lucysmom (#12) (Edited)

You have the cause and effect backwards. The number of jobs have decreased because the government has become larded up with parasites draining the life out of the productive segment of the economy.

JW has this exactly right.

My sister-in-law - a middle-aged divorced mom of a 12 year old - has just finalized her second full year of collecting unemployment benefits. $450 per week. She hasn't lifted a finger to look for another job - and why not? It's a PAID VACATION.

More outrageous: Her ex-husband does NOT provide any alimony. Why isn't his daughter his responibility?

Instead, the STATE has became the sugar-daddy and source of ALL financial support.

The state provided FREE Medical and dental. FREE housing. FREE food stamp. And other subsidies. Then she complained because she didn't get the FREE-MONEY as a tax-windfall $2100 child-credit from the goobermint.

Bottomline: She is a professional parasite...

Now multiply this scenario out across American 30 million times.

P.S. - She's voted for Clinton and 0bama.

Liberator  posted on  2011-04-03   13:11:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: Godwinson (#77)

What so called conservatives like CZ82 are saying subconsciously is that they want an inequality in society - they want separation of classes - this maybe a hold over from segregationist times when the Dixiecrats migrated into the GOP or it could be just classic class-ism (the old upstairs, downstairs model) - but is clear they feel a threat when groups they see as being subservient ask for more.

If it were just a matter of inequality it wouldn't be nice, but it would be survivable.

Consider that in 2004 92,000 households is San Mateo County had an annual income of $49,999 or less - that is $16,443 short of what a family of three needs to be self suffiecent; The average worker who qualifies for HSA services earns $16.29 an hour, said HSA spokeswoman Catherine Barber.

www.smdailyjournal.com/article_preview.php?id=65709

Working families are already forced to beg in order to survive and what CZ82 and his ilk propose would not only remove aid that helps bridge the gap between what people are paid and what it takes to live, but lower wages to boot.

Toss in all the legislation the radical right would like to see enacted that would prevent couples controlling the size of their families and you've got third world standard of living right here in the USA.

You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand

lucysmom  posted on  2011-04-03   13:15:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: We The People (#80)

What conservatives want is the nation that was founded. All men are CREATED equal, given equal opportunity to become what they will.

If you think all people are "given equal opportunity to become what they will", you're living in lala land.

You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand

lucysmom  posted on  2011-04-03   13:19:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: Liberator (#82)

Thanks for embodying the American spirit, dream, and determination. I'm sure you've accomplished your achievements despite the goobmint "help."

By his own admission, he is creating jobs in India - so yeah - I guess he does embody the current American spirit - just not the spirit embodied by the founding fathers.

You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand

lucysmom  posted on  2011-04-03   13:22:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: lucysmom (#85)

If you think all people are "given equal opportunity to become what they will", you're living in lala land.

Didn't you just recently post to someone that it would be much better to articulate your position than to go for the easy slam?

My view is clearly spelled out. What is your view, aside from what you might think about my mental abilities?

We The People  posted on  2011-04-03   13:38:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: lucysmom (#85)

If you think all people are "given equal opportunity to become what they will", you're living in lala land

So who isn't?????? And why????

"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning

CZ82  posted on  2011-04-03   13:42:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: Liberator (#83)

More outrageous: Her ex-husband does NOT provide any alimony. Why isn't his daughter his responibility?

I take it her ex-husband is your brother, and the daughter is your niece?

I admire the way you tell the story to distance yourself as much as possible while establishing sufficient relationship to make your knowledge of her situation sound plausible.

Bottomline: She is a professional parasite...

I grew up back in the old days when caring for children and a home was the WORK women did. You guys want to go back to the old days, then support your women and children.

You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand

lucysmom  posted on  2011-04-03   13:44:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: We The People (#87)

My view is clearly spelled out. What is your view, aside from what you might think about my mental abilities?

Fair enough.

A child born to a single mom living in a slum and addicted to meth does not have the same opportunity as a George Bush to make of his life what he will.

That child does not have equal opportunity because what his environment provides is not equal; he is behind from conception.

You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand

lucysmom  posted on  2011-04-03   13:51:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#91. To: lucysmom (#89)

Face it Libs like handouts, Conservatives don't..... Or wasn't that the whole purpose of this thread?????

"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning

CZ82  posted on  2011-04-03   13:52:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: lucysmom (#89)

I take it her ex-husband is your brother, and the daughter is your niece?

Would that revelation make any difference?

I admire the way you tell the story to distance yourself as much as possible while establishing sufficient relationship to make your knowledge of her situation sound plausible.

And I like the way you've distanced yourself away from the crux of the problem: A socialist-parasitic society dependent on a goobermint that confiscated wealth from the producers and rewards laziness, irresponsibility, and sloth.

I grew up back in the old days when caring for children and a home was the WORK women did. You guys want to go back to the old days, then support your women and children.

Those days are over - along with the days the father fulfilled his financial responsibly and supported his children. Maintaining a household is only ONE responsibility, just like personal hygiene.

You've choosen to ignore a major problem with a socialist nation: Subsidizing irresponsibility and sloth and penalizing responsibility and production. WHY are you so blind?

Liberator  posted on  2011-04-03   13:54:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#93. To: lucysmom (#89) (Edited)

I grew up back in the old days when caring for children and a home was the WORK women did. You guys want to go back to the old days, then support your women and children.

Shotguns weddings coming up! I can't wait for the women as chattel and can't own property.

"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"

Rek  posted on  2011-04-03   13:54:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#94. To: CZ82, Lucysmom (#91)

Face it Libs like handouts, Conservatives don't..... Or wasn't that the whole purpose of this thread?????

That's one of the purposes...

Somehow the liberals and leftists believe goobermint creates wealth, when instead all they do is destroy wealth and production - along with discouraging self-reliance and motivation.

Liberator  posted on  2011-04-03   13:58:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#95. To: lucysmom, We The People (#90) (Edited)

That child does not have equal opportunity because what his environment provides is not equal; he is behind from conception.

Where is there a constitutional mandate to legislate "equal environmental opportunity"??

Liberator  posted on  2011-04-03   14:00:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#96. To: lucysmom (#90)

A child born to a single mom living in a slum and addicted to meth does not have the same opportunity as a George Bush to make of his life what he will.

Sure he does. His journey may be more difficult, but he was born with a brain and a back, just like George Bush.

A George Bush can still commit a crime and end up in prison, just like the child in the slum. Or...either can work hard, make the right choices and rise to the top.

A George Bush can also be born addicted to meth. History has shown that certain presidents of this nation, walked around without shoes as a child. Correct me if I'm wrong, but is your argument really that some are born into money and some are not?

We The People  posted on  2011-04-03   14:02:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#97. To: We The People (#96) (Edited)

A George Bush can still commit a crime and end up in prison, just like the child in the slum. Or...either can work hard, make the right choices and rise to the top.

So the argument that one should get paid what you are worth doesn't enter into any of this? And those that can afford to pay them won't have some type of advantage?

Your tax lawyer is the equal to that which the Bush's can afford to hire? I doubt it.

"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"

Rek  posted on  2011-04-03   14:06:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#98. To: Liberator (#92)

You've choosen to ignore a major problem with a socialist nation: Subsidizing irresponsibility and sloth and penalizing responsibility and production. WHY are you so blind?

A woman who cared for her children and home used to be considered responsible; you call her slothful because she currently doesn't have a second job.

Apparently she was productive in the Republican sense or she wouldn't be collecting unemployment now.

You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand

lucysmom  posted on  2011-04-03   14:10:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#99. To: Liberator (#95)

Rags to riches...

Criticisms:

By social reformers and revolutionaries, who argue that only a handful of exceptionally capable and lucky persons are actually able to travel the "rags to riches" road, and that the great publicity given to such cases is an illusion designed to help keep the masses of the working class and the poor in line, and prevent them from agitating for an overall collective change in the direction of social equality.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rags_to_riches

We The People  posted on  2011-04-03   14:10:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#100. To: We The People (#96)

His journey may be more difficult, but he was born with a brain and a back, just like George Bush....

LOL...

BDS!!

Paulite freak!!

Missed doctor appt!!!

Medication missed!!

Liberator  posted on  2011-04-03   14:12:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#101. To: lucysmom (#98)

A woman who cared for her children and home used to be considered responsible; you call her slothful because she currently doesn't have a second job.

HUH?? Don't confuse tasks with "jobs." She doesn't have ANY job, Lucy. It is ALL of our respective responsibility to earn a living. It is NOT the goobermint job.

Apparently she was productive in the Republican sense or she wouldn't be collecting unemployment now.

How so?

Challenge:

Please define "production in the Republican sense."

Please define "production in the Democrat sense."

Liberator  posted on  2011-04-03   14:17:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#102. To: lucysmom (#90)

A child born to a single mom living in a slum and addicted to meth does not have the same opportunity as a George Bush to make of his life what he will.

H. Wayne Huizenga

Wayne was born in Chicago, Illinois. In his early teens, Wayne and his family moved to Florida, but he soon realized that his father was not the male figure he should look up to. He abused his wife, but the move to Florida was made in hopes to keep the marriage from divorce. However, Wayne’s dad did not change, and he continuously abused his family. Wayne went to high school and afterward moved back to Chicago to go to college, but he soon dropped out. He then signed up to be part of the Army reserves and trained. After training he went back to Florida, bought a truck, and began taking garbage out of his county. Eventually, the one garbage truck he had purchased grew into a highly successful business. It ran all throughout Southern Florida and soon became known as Waste Management Inc. Soon enough, Wayne’s company was known all over the U.S. Wayne also purchased Blockbuster stores, which became a huge success, and eventually merged it with Viacom. Throughout his lifetime, Wayne has been able to find three Fortune 500 Companies.

www.toptenz.net/top-10-rags-to-riches-stories.php

We The People  posted on  2011-04-03   14:17:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#103. To: lucysmom (#98)

Apparently she was productive in the Republican sense

Ahhhhh. Truth in motivation soon becomes apparent.

Nevermind. Any discussion would be in vain.

We The People  posted on  2011-04-03   14:18:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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