U.S. Constitution
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Title: More Nullification of Federal Laws: Food Sovereignty
Source:
Food Renegade
URL Source: http://www.foodrenegade.com/maine-town-declares-food-sovereignty/
Published: Mar 23, 2011
Author: KristenM
Post Date: 2011-03-23 17:58:31 by jwpegler
Keywords: None
Views: 22531
Comments: 36
Sedgwick, Maine has done what no other town in the United States has done. The town unanimously passed an ordinance giving its citizens the right “to produce, process, sell, purchase, and consume local foods of their choosing.” This includes raw milk, locally slaughtered meats, and just about anything else you can imagine. It’s also a decided bucking of state and federal laws. From David Gumpert’s coverage: This isn’t just a declaration of preference. The proposed warrant added, “It shall be unlawful for any law or regulation adopted by the state or federal government to interfere with the rights recognized by this Ordinance.” In other words, no state licensing requirements prohibiting certain farms from selling dairy products or producing their own chickens for sale to other citizens in the town. What about potential legal liability and state or federal inspections? It’s all up to the seller and buyer to negotiate. “Patrons purchasing food for home consumption may enter into private agreements with those producers or processors of local foods to waive any liability for the consumption of that food. Producers or processors of local foods shall be exempt from licensure and inspection requirements for that food as long as those agreements are in effect.” Imagine that–buyer and seller can agree to cut out the lawyers. That’s almost un-American, isn’t it? I applaud the residents of Sedgwick for making such a bold stand. Three other Maine towns are also slotted to vote on a similar ordinance in the coming weeks. I wonder, though, about how enforceable such a law is if the state or federal government chose to challenge it. In response to a similar question, Edwin Shank (of Your Family Cow) commented on Gumpert’s post: I’m not one of the “lawyers here” but my observation is that when the local law chooses to prohibit more than the rest of the state, nation or organization they will usually get by with it. It is when local law moves to allow more latitude that the trouble starts. For example, I can imagine that if a county in PA would take a Humbolt CA position on raw milk, the state would take an it’s-up-to-them position. But if local law in an area moved to allow raw butter, cream, kefir & yogurt… I’m sure it would not get to first base. Still, I say Kudos to the fine folks of Sedgwick Maine. Their common sense bravery warms the heart of every awake American. If nothing else, their move will bring the ridiculousness of the situation to the consciousness of another percent or so of Americans. One American at a time the tipping point will be reached. Deborah Evans, one of the citizens of Sedgwick also commented: The problem with your question is that nobody really knows the answer. In Maine, there are maybe ten or so “citizen-initiated rights-based” ordinances like ours, passed in various towns in recent years, on a variety of issues. For instance, Montville passed an ordinance forbidding the planting of GMO’s several years ago. ME’s Dept of Ag wrote them a letter saying they could not do that according to some legal point, whereupon Montville’s counsel wrote back that they could do it because of a different point of law. As far as we know, that was that. Also, Maine has “home rule” for its towns in the statutes. The Maine Municipal Association published “Municipal Home Rule: Grassroots Democracy or A Symbolic Gesture,” (from Maine Townsman, January 1983) by Michael L. Starn, Editor. In this article, he writes: Municipal home rule in Maine is both constitutional and legislative. The constitutional provision can be found in the Constitution of the State of Maine, Art. VII, Pt.2, §1, and was adopted in public referendum in 1969. The amendment reads: “The inhabitants of any municipality shall have the power to alter and amend their charters on all matters, not prohibited by Constitution or general law, which are local and municipal in character. The legislature shall prescribe the procedure by which the municipality may so act.” Our Local Food and Community Self-Governance Ordinance states: (1) Producers or processors of local foods in the Town of Sedgwick are exempt from licensure and inspection provided that the transaction is only between the producer or processor and a patron when the food is sold for home consumption. . . . (2) Producers or processors of local foods in the Town of Sedgwick are exempt from licensure and inspection provided that the products are prepared for, consumed or sold at a community social event.” Therefore, we the radicals who concocted this mutinous act of infamy believe that according to the Home Rule provisions of our State Constitution, the citizens of Sedgwick have the right to enact an ordinance that is “local and municipal in character.” David posted a link to our ordinance template so please feel free to read it over as I think some of your questions will be answered there. Having founded our legal position in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the State of Maine, we feel that if a challenge is posed it can only be resolved in a court of higher authority. The Farmer to Consumer Legal Defense Fund, the Community Environmental Legal Defense Fund and the Alliance for Democracy have all aided us in our efforts to construct this ordinance over the last year. We have had the civics lesson of our lives – and it all started with a few of us sitting around a farmhouse kitchen table, having been gobsmacked by our Dept of Ag over a “new interpretation” of the 1,000-bird processing exemption.. Regardless of the outcome when all the votes are counted, Sedgwick and the other three towns have stood up and taken a stand on what matters in our communities. We know of several other towns who are just waiting to see how this goes before they jump in the game. Our State Legislators and Senator are very excited about this as it gives them a mandate to begin to make the changes at the state level. Right now there are three bills in the Legislature’s Ag Committee that address our issues at the state level, largely because our issues are everyone’s issues when you get right down to it. If citizens in enough towns in enough states stand up and take a stand on their local food system based on their inalienable right to produce and choose the food they eat, the Fed might have to listen! What a concept. As a country the majority of us have become politically lazy and complacent. If we want change we must take up the tools of the democracy bequeathed to us by the Founding Fathers, organize, and get the ball rolling. If anybody thinks real change happens any other way, look at our history: Long before our Constitution was amended, individuals and small groups of outspoken people put their lives on the line to end slavery, to allow women the right to vote, to end racial discrimination, etc. Look at the struggles to legalize something as basic as the right to home school your own children. Real change comes from the people. Period. So, Kudos to the fine citizens of Sedgwick, Maine. May you inspire many other municipalities to follow suit!Sedgwick, Maine has done what no other town in the United States has done. The town unanimously passed an ordinance giving its citizens the right “to produce, process, sell, purchase, and consume local foods of their choosing.” This includes raw milk, locally slaughtered meats, and just about anything else you can imagine. It’s also a decided bucking of state and federal laws. From David Gumpert’s coverage: This isn’t just a declaration of preference. The proposed warrant added, “It shall be unlawful for any law or regulation adopted by the state or federal government to interfere with the rights recognized by this Ordinance.” In other words, no state licensing requirements prohibiting certain farms from selling dairy products or producing their own chickens for sale to other citizens in the town. What about potential legal liability and state or federal inspections? It’s all up to the seller and buyer to negotiate. “Patrons purchasing food for home consumption may enter into private agreements with those producers or processors of local foods to waive any liability for the consumption of that food. Producers or processors of local foods shall be exempt from licensure and inspection requirements for that food as long as those agreements are in effect.” Imagine that–buyer and seller can agree to cut out the lawyers. That’s almost un-American, isn’t it? I applaud the residents of Sedgwick for making such a bold stand. Three other Maine towns are also slotted to vote on a similar ordinance in the coming weeks. I wonder, though, about how enforceable such a law is if the state or federal government chose to challenge it. In response to a similar question, Edwin Shank (of Your Family Cow) commented on Gumpert’s post: I’m not one of the “lawyers here” but my observation is that when the local law chooses to prohibit more than the rest of the state, nation or organization they will usually get by with it. It is when local law moves to allow more latitude that the trouble starts. For example, I can imagine that if a county in PA would take a Humbolt CA position on raw milk, the state would take an it’s-up-to-them position. But if local law in an area moved to allow raw butter, cream, kefir & yogurt… I’m sure it would not get to first base. Still, I say Kudos to the fine folks of Sedgwick Maine. Their common sense bravery warms the heart of every awake American. If nothing else, their move will bring the ridiculousness of the situation to the consciousness of another percent or so of Americans. One American at a time the tipping point will be reached. Deborah Evans, one of the citizens of Sedgwick also commented: The problem with your question is that nobody really knows the answer. In Maine, there are maybe ten or so “citizen-initiated rights-based” ordinances like ours, passed in various towns in recent years, on a variety of issues. For instance, Montville passed an ordinance forbidding the planting of GMO’s several years ago. ME’s Dept of Ag wrote them a letter saying they could not do that according to some legal point, whereupon Montville’s counsel wrote back that they could do it because of a different point of law. As far as we know, that was that. Also, Maine has “home rule” for its towns in the statutes. The Maine Municipal Association published “Municipal Home Rule: Grassroots Democracy or A Symbolic Gesture,” (from Maine Townsman, January 1983) by Michael L. Starn, Editor. In this article, he writes: Municipal home rule in Maine is both constitutional and legislative. The constitutional provision can be found in the Constitution of the State of Maine, Art. VII, Pt.2, §1, and was adopted in public referendum in 1969. The amendment reads: “The inhabitants of any municipality shall have the power to alter and amend their charters on all matters, not prohibited by Constitution or general law, which are local and municipal in character. The legislature shall prescribe the procedure by which the municipality may so act.” Our Local Food and Community Self-Governance Ordinance states: (1) Producers or processors of local foods in the Town of Sedgwick are exempt from licensure and inspection provided that the transaction is only between the producer or processor and a patron when the food is sold for home consumption. . . . (2) Producers or processors of local foods in the Town of Sedgwick are exempt from licensure and inspection provided that the products are prepared for, consumed or sold at a community social event.” Therefore, we the radicals who concocted this mutinous act of infamy believe that according to the Home Rule provisions of our State Constitution, the citizens of Sedgwick have the right to enact an ordinance that is “local and municipal in character.” David posted a link to our ordinance template so please feel free to read it over as I think some of your questions will be answered there. Having founded our legal position in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the State of Maine, we feel that if a challenge is posed it can only be resolved in a court of higher authority. The Farmer to Consumer Legal Defense Fund, the Community Environmental Legal Defense Fund and the Alliance for Democracy have all aided us in our efforts to construct this ordinance over the last year. We have had the civics lesson of our lives – and it all started with a few of us sitting around a farmhouse kitchen table, having been gobsmacked by our Dept of Ag over a “new interpretation” of the 1,000-bird processing exemption.. Regardless of the outcome when all the votes are counted, Sedgwick and the other three towns have stood up and taken a stand on what matters in our communities. We know of several other towns who are just waiting to see how this goes before they jump in the game. Our State Legislators and Senator are very excited about this as it gives them a mandate to begin to make the changes at the state level. Right now there are three bills in the Legislature’s Ag Committee that address our issues at the state level, largely because our issues are everyone’s issues when you get right down to it. If citizens in enough towns in enough states stand up and take a stand on their local food system based on their inalienable right to produce and choose the food they eat, the Fed might have to listen! What a concept. As a country the majority of us have become politically lazy and complacent. If we want change we must take up the tools of the democracy bequeathed to us by the Founding Fathers, organize, and get the ball rolling. If anybody thinks real change happens any other way, look at our history: Long before our Constitution was amended, individuals and small groups of outspoken people put their lives on the line to end slavery, to allow women the right to vote, to end racial discrimination, etc. Look at the struggles to legalize something as basic as the right to home school your own children. Real change comes from the people. Period. So, Kudos to the fine citizens of Sedgwick, Maine. May you inspire many other municipalities to follow suit!
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#1. To: jwpegler (#0)
An unlicensed chicken, is a happy chicken.
I recall a re-run of MASH I saw where this uber right winger named Colonel Flagg... This is actually an important event. If your neighbor grows some tomatoes and sells them to you, it's not interstate commerce. So what authority does the federal government have to regulate this? None. I never thought that I would see this in my lifetime. It's magnificent. Agreed. I wonder, though... Is it too little, too late? On the one hand, it's encouraging that this is starting to happen. Especially because the Feds have been so busy arming the local municipalities with all the latest goodies and gadgets that a SWAT team could ever want! On the other hand, the Feds have been screwing with us for so long, that I am uncertain whether we can bring this country back from the edge of destruction...? IMHO, the vast majority of the political elite should be tarred and feathered... At the minimum. BUT... will it be enough? I fear that the only way to stop them- REALLY stop them- will be through force of arms.
Socialist ass-hats think "There will be no more money when the U.S. dollar has no value, until that time we can keep printing more." And yes, that IS from LF's answer to Ben Bernanke, go65, leading disfunctional and delusional socialist of the forum. "You want me to kill THE ENEMIES of Jappos, I'll kill THE ENEMIES of Jappos, Rebs, or Sioux, or Cheyenne... For 500 bucks a month I'll kill whoever you want. But keep one thing in mind: I'd happily kill you for free." Algren, "The Last Samurai" Maybe. But for the first time in my life, people are starting to wake up. We're seeing this every day with the government bureaucrat unions. Republican governors really are taking them on. So are a couple of Democrat governors. Cuomo in NY is taking on the unions. Jerry Brown in California has just signed a a bill to cut over $2 billion from Medicaid. It's not enough, but he is a Democrat. We have never seen this before. The Reactionaries are out in full force in Wisconsin, Ohio, Michigan, New Jersey and elsewhere. I actually think they are going to lose, because this is just simple math. It's magnificent.
Going after the politicians will only result in Marshall Law and them coming to get your weapons. The best way (I think) is to go after the ones who enable them, the money people. People who stay in the shadows but make it possible for these assholes to be elected. If they start to come up missing, what excuse are the politicians going to use to try and stop it???? How can they make a big stink over people that hardly anybody knows???? The politicians can't say we're targeting them because none of them will be dead. Hopefully they will get the hint and start changing their tune (if they're smart) because they will know that sooner or later they're next if they don't!!!!!!!!!!! That should give you enough time to get the candidates elected that you want to govern......
"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning
CZ82: The best way (I think) is to go after the ones who enable them, the money people. I'm sympathetic to both views, but... My view is that we must have a multi-faceted approach: 1.) Federal elections (no, they usually don't work but once in a while you get a Jim DeMint or Ron/Rand Paul who can carry the message). 2.) Federal courts (no, they usually don't work but once in a while you get a sold decision -- much more so today than in the past) 3.) State nullification of federal laws -- states around the country, on various issues, are challenging the federal government like never before. We need to pay less attention to the feds and more attention to the states. This is were the real action is going to happen over the next few years. 4.) Secession -- if the aforementioned approaches don't work, then this would be the next step. 5.) Armed rebellion - if at any step along the way the feds initiate violence against us, then we must exercise our right to defend ourselves. Yes, the feds already violate our rights and threaten us with violence if we don't obey. At some point, the people will have had enough of that and then we will have to act.
Your ignorance (or maybe its your sheepleness) is showing. Upon taking office, Brown gained a reputation as a fiscal conservative. "The American Conservative" later noted he was "much more of a fiscal conservative than Governor Reagan." His fiscal restraint resulted in one of the biggest budget surpluses in state history, roughly $5 billion. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Brown#cite_note-AC1-12 Some of us have been telling you that Brown is not all that liberal - trying our best to give you a clue.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
So is this supposed to make us like him????? He's still a Democrat!!!! Democrat=Pendejo!!!!
"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning
Moonbeam's got a long way to go, to fill the shoes of Schwartzenumbskull (R) = Pinchy Pendejo!!!!
I recall a re-run of MASH I saw where this uber right winger named Colonel Flagg... That's Pinche Pendejo..... By the way who said Schwartzenburglar was worth a $hit anyway????
"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning
I don't know - guess that depends on whether you care more about personalities than policies.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
He does come with the correct party label - something that seems to matter to you.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
The two are the same to you leftists, so what's the difference?
Well, [W.A-R.'s] got to do something for attention, his multiple personalities aren't speaking to him any more, and his imaginary friends keep finding excuses not to come over.
Then only reason you think that is because I trash the PendejoCrats. Most of the Republicans (RINOs) are just as bad as the PendejoCrats....... What the Democrat party is to the Communists the Republican party is to us, a way to get what you want...... As I told someone the other night the Democrats are driving us off the cliff at 500 MPH, the Republicans at 100 MPH.... Voting the Republicans in and Democrats out will slow down the destruction of this country, giving us the time needed to put the right people in place to turn it around... Then eventually we can get rid of the RINOs too....... So does that make me a Tea Partier????? Maybe, maybe not..... So am I a Republican????? Maybe, maybe not..... Since I think abortion is a good thing in that it helps keep the Liberal population in check, I'll leave the final verdict up to you!!!!!!
"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning
I wasn't talking about Brown's overall record. I generally like Jerry Brown and I've always said so. I think he's very innovative for a politician. What I specifically said is that: Cuomo is taking on the unions. Brown is cutting Medicaid. We have never really seen those two things before from Democrats.
Yeah, that would be a rare as witnessing compassion from a conservative. Brown is a pragmatic centrist. His proposal demands something from all sides; budget cuts from one side, and extension of taxes already in effect from the other. Republicans remain inflexible (owing allegiance first to Grover Norquist and California voters second) and refuse to even allow the issue on the ballot. Jerry Brown is what being "his own man" looks like; republicans are what the bought and paid for look like. You may wish for the demise of unions just as Rove longed to see a permanent republican majority, but without an active counterbalance, tyranny of one sort or the other is the result.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
The concept of "unions" is as prehistoric as "republicans" and "democrats." It is all wishful thinking that any group is going to defend anyone for anything at anytime because someone belongs to that group dynamic; they are all failures. In contemporary times (right now) they are all full of bilge and deserving to be thrown out for NOT keeping the fundamental foundations of America clearly in mind. And the test of proof of what I say is easy to see: America is in rapid decline with little hope of re-achieving ANYTHING as in past acclaims.
Actually what you see is proof of the exact opposite of what you say.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
How so? Prove to me how the "unions" or the "republicans" or the "democrats" have encouraged (within the last 20 years) America's growth and stability towards the common values that estabished America. We are a declining nation; all of these established collective groups have falsified their credentials in preserving the dignity of individual rights.
Not sure about where you come from but I live here. Brown is the originator of Calif's problems IMO ..... the nexus of the union cancer that has helped bring the state down. A millionaire doing "the dance" with beat up Plynouths and 200 square foot apartments is all this fraud is about. Dud's never had a real gig outside of leftist circles. What have you seen of the guy that makes your perception so different from mine? Hopefully not based on on being "conversationally friendly" toward the droolings/screechings from evil dolt neanderthals like LM, dwarf or GO65 is it?
Death to everybody who does not get outta my way. (decided to retire the beatdowns on old worthless retread posters that are bozoed)
Why lookey he-yah...Officer EEOC has taken a break from tourin' the local Dunkin' Donuts and paid us a visit... Hey Officer Fatazzz...stop eatin' dem twinkies while yer typin'...maybe you'll make some sense...
Who gave your spandex wearing ass permission to leave the bathhouse, dwarf?
Don't hold your breath!!!!!
"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning
Getting government to steal money from others is not compassion.
Well, when he ran for President in 92 against Clinton, Brown advocated scraping all personal, corporate, and payroll taxes replacing them a simple 13% flat rate income tax and 13% VAT. Brown's chief economic advisor at the time was Art Laffer, who also advised Reagan on his tax policy. Did either Bush ever advocate anything like this? No.
Did either Bush ever advocate anything like this? No. Boosh....well....boosh is a topic for another thread. Whatever Brown did in his obviously hail mary clutch at the brass ring was for show. Show...just like the beater plynouth and the tiny apartment. Since you are on the RR thing why not take a look at how many SEIU union thugs surrounded him vs. Brown. RR actually used the unions and turned them sideways...and the US was better for him having done so. Brown brought us such criminal "election payola" atrocities like paying the thuggish CPOA goons to walk from their cars to the gates....letting them and other public goons work 2500 hours of OT their last 2 years otj and then claim that as their pension base salary.......I could go on and on about that particular "leo" group of shysters almost as long as I could on brown's other bedmates in the SEIU and the CTA. I'm a bit surprised to see you fall for this guys regurgitated dog and pony fakery......Brown and RR share only biped qualities and a few common letters in their names.........but to each his own:)
Death to everybody who does not get outta my way. (decided to retire the beatdowns on old worthless retread posters that are bozoed)
Yeah...whatever on that self absorbed lycra pantied fraud POS. Rearview mirror worked real well on him and some of the other vile rubbish here.
Death to everybody who does not get outta my way. (decided to retire the beatdowns on old worthless retread posters that are bozoed)
Funny how the founding fathers enshrined stealing money by the government in the Constitution.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
Oh, now you want to confine your time period to the last twenty years? We are a declining nation; all of these established collective groups have falsified their credentials in preserving the dignity of individual rights. What Walker did in Wisconsin is a stunning example of crushing the "dignity of individual rights" and grinding them into the dirt.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
I was just attempting to be kind with you. I thought starting your recollections with the Clinton administration would be a great start. You do remember Bill Clinton (D) signing NAFTA into law, correct? The "unions" were fervently against this treasonous legislation crafted by that piece of shit Newt "Contract for America" Gingrich (R). Most all the people were except those scurrilous political dawgs in Washington DC begging for a lobbying buck. Yet, the "unions" unanimously donated millions of dollars towards Clinton presidential campaign. Still, the "unions" have crafted steep benefits as a compromise about the nation for some rewards which proves their nasty taste for treason, as well. But go back until the end of WW2, that's about 60 years and you still can't find anything worthy of mention by the "unions" or the "democrats" or the "republicans" except some rhetorical speech here and there that means nothing but hot aire. BAH. First of all I asked you to go back twenty years and all you found was an example a few days old. There is no reasoning for collective bargaining by government paid employees; maybe 30% of government paid employees have mandatory participation in a union but that proves a point doesn't it. By the way the government unfairly treats unions with collective bargaining terms the 70% of government paid employees must bargain individually. Now that is not an apparent equality under the law is it? Unions demand special considerations which inevitably creates pressure on government to increase wages and benefits for all WHEN NO APPARENT PERFORMANCE IS REQUIRED FOR ANY INCREASE. As a result, receiving automatic pay increases DECREASES performance and minimizes the service that government should be applying toward the PEOPLE it serves.
Perhaps its just a coincidence, but the US didn't become a first rate world power until unions became a significant influence in American life. The growth of the middle class (and its demise) seems to be linked to the fortunes of the unions. Unions certainly have had a positive impact on the life expectancy of Americans. There is no reasoning for collective bargaining by government paid employees; maybe 30% of government paid employees have mandatory participation in a union but that proves a point doesn't it. By the way the government unfairly treats unions with collective bargaining terms the 70% of government paid employees must bargain individually. Now that is not an apparent equality under the law is it? Unions demand special considerations which inevitably creates pressure on government to increase wages and benefits for all WHEN NO APPARENT PERFORMANCE IS REQUIRED FOR ANY INCREASE. As a result, receiving automatic pay increases DECREASES performance and minimizes the service that government should be applying toward the PEOPLE it serves. Again; What Walker did in Wisconsin is a stunning example of crushing the "dignity of individual rights" and grinding them into the dirt. The words in quotes are yours. What Walker did was to decide that union members were so insignificant, of so little value that he didn't have to talk to them, allow them to have a voice or even choose of their own free will to sacrifice some of their benefits for the greater good, he ran roughshod over them, passed a law prohibiting them from having a voice, and now he has decided to ignore a court ordered stay prohibiting the publishing of his law. These are not the acts of a freedom loving, individual rights respecting man who treats others with dignity; these are the acts of a dictator who crushes.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
The US became a first rate world power when Britain was defeated and the US Constitution was ratified in 1791. Although there may have been methods for the various tradespeople to move from shop to shop at the time (a great example are the magnificent ships built around that time known as Yankee Clippers sold all over the world requiring tradespeople with skilled knowledge to perform on the job enhancing competitiveness) there were no "unions" or collective bargaining methods at the time. Your name and individual contribution often lead to wealth and appropriate wage scale justifying the entire package to the business owners whom were very competitive with each other. Your desire to wag "unions" into this discussion as competitive market force had nothing to do with America as "a first rate world power"; "unions" came into being as a result of the 1860s far after the Industrial Revolution that America initiated. "Unions" became a fact because of child labor abuse as a result of the industrial revolution as well as worker safety and compensation characteristics. Unions did not lead the nation; unions lagged the nation and actually occurred coincident with Karl Marx's treatise on The Communist Manifesto. BAH. It is linked to inexpensive natural resources and human creativity to exploit those same resources within a large economic system and remain competitive. Only originally did this happen; it only lasted about 30-40 years. Then governments on all levels in America installed laws and methods of inspection that those same laws were followed or executed by the various commercial/industrial/government operations affected. BAH. The words in quotes are indeed mine but within the context of your spin on the same you missed my entire perspective. Walker has ensured the distrust of "collective bargaining rights" through those efforts. Unions are a collective amalgamation of considerations and the last issue they promote is the dignity of individual rights." Unions are insignificant. They are a vestige of a bygone era no longer required today. The government is not supposed to serve unions. It is the people the government serves. If the government job is no longer an exciting career for the government employee, they can go elsewhere in a competitive world.
Unions in the US predate the birth of Karl Marx (1818), and "The Communist Manifesto" (1848). From the Ludwig Von Mises site: A History of Labor Unions from Colonial Times to 2009 Before 1800, printers and shoemakers organized in Philadelphia and New York. Philadelphia printers conducted the first recorded strike for higher wages in 1786, opposing a wage cut and demanding a minimum wage of $6 per week.[2] Employers quickly acquiesced, confirming the generalization in industrial relations that unions win short strikes and lose long ones. Because the average daily wage rate for laborers was $0.53 and $1.00 for artisans in the Philadelphia area, it is not clear that the strike boosted wages for a majority of printers, but a cut was thwarted.[3] Unions are insignificant. They are a vestige of a bygone era no longer required today. Then why not just let them die a natural death?
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
The growth of the middle class (and its demise) seems to be linked to the fortunes of the unions. Unions certainly have had a positive impact on the life expectancy of Americans. enough. BOZO time. listening to your trash probably would be like logging into DU. enough. no need to stain my eyes with you anymore. blow it out your ass you evil regressive statist shill.
Death to everybody who does not get outta my way. (decided to retire the beatdowns on old worthless retread posters that are bozoed)
Don't let the door hit you where the good Lord split you.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
ROFLMAO...Office EEOC gets his ass kicked by a white woman...
no state licensing requirements prohibiting certain farms from selling dairy products or producing their own chickens for sale to other citizens in the town
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
Godwinson posted on 2011-02-23 11:47:32 ET
http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=18011&Disp=46#C46
#2. To: hondo68, capitalist eric, go65, hondo (#1)
- Medical marijuana (almost the entire West)
- Guns manufactured and sold in the same state (5+ states)
- Obamacare (26 states)
- Now Food
States and localities are FINALLY fighting back.
I never thought that I would see this in my lifetime. It's magnificent.
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#3. To: jwpegler, hondo68 (#2)
States and localities are FINALLY fighting back.
#4. To: Capitalist Eric (#3)
(Edited)
I wonder, though... Is it too little, too late?
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#5. To: Capitalist Eric (#3)
I fear that the only way to stop them- REALLY stop them- will be through force of arms.
#6. To: CZ82, capitalist eric (#5)
(Edited)
Capitalist Eric: I fear that the only way to stop them- REALLY stop them- will be through force of arms.
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#7. To: jwpegler (#4)
Jerry Brown in California has just signed a a bill to cut over $2 billion from Medicaid. It's not enough, but he is a Democrat. We have never seen this before.
#8. To: lucysmom (#7)
Upon taking office, Brown gained a reputation as a fiscal conservative. "The American Conservative" later noted he was "much more of a fiscal conservative than Governor Reagan." His fiscal restraint resulted in one of the biggest budget surpluses in state history, roughly $5 billion.
#9. To: CZ82, lucysmom, *The Two Parties ARE the Same* (#8)
Democrat=Pendejo!!!!
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
Godwinson posted on 2011-02-23 11:47:32 ET
http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=18011&Disp=46#C46
#10. To: hondo68 (#9)
(Edited)
Pinchy Pendejo
#11. To: CZ82 (#8)
So is this supposed to make us like him????? He's still a Democrat!!!!
#12. To: CZ82 (#10)
By the way who said Schwartzenburglar was worth a $hit anyway????
#13. To: lucysmom (#11)
I don't know - guess that depends on whether you care more about personalities than policies.
#14. To: lucysmom (#12)
He does come with the correct party label - something that seems to matter to you.
#15. To: lucysmom (#7)
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#16. To: jwpegler (#15)
What I specifically said is that: Cuomo is taking on the unions. Brown is cutting Medicaid. We have never really seen those two things before from Democrats.
#17. To: lucysmom, jwpegler (#16)
You [jwpegler] may wish for the demise of unions just as Rove longed to see a permanent republican majority, but without an active counterbalance, tyranny of one sort or the other is the result.
#18. To: buckeroo (#17)
And the test of proof of what I say is easy to see: America is in rapid decline with little hope of re-achieving ANYTHING as in past acclaims.
#19. To: lucysmom (#18)
#20. To: jwpegler (#15)
I wasn't talking about Brown's overall record. I generally like Jerry Brown and I've always said so. I think he's very innovative for a politician.
#21. To: e_type_jag (#20)
(Edited)
#22. To: war, e_type_jag (#21)
Why lookey he-yah...Officer EEOC has taken a break from tourin' the local Dunkin' Donuts and paid us a visit...
#23. To: buckeroo (#19)
How so? Prove to me how the "unions" or the "republicans" or the "democrats" have encouraged (within the last 20 years) America's growth and stability towards the common values that estabished America.
#24. To: lucysmom (#16)
Yeah, that would be a rare as witnessing compassion from a conservative.
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#25. To: e_type_jag (#20)
What have you seen of the guy that makes your perception so different from mine?
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#26. To: jwpegler (#25)
Brown's chief economic advisor at the time was Art Laffer, who also advised Reagan on his tax policy.
#27. To: Ibluafartsky (#22)
Who gave your spandex wearing ass permission to leave the bathhouse, dwarf?
#28. To: jwpegler (#24)
Getting government to steal money from others is not compassion.
#29. To: buckeroo (#19)
How so? Prove to me how the "unions" or the "republicans" or the "democrats" have encouraged (within the last 20 years) America's growth and stability towards the common values that estabished America.
#30. To: lucysmom (#29)
Oh, now you want to confine your time period to the last twenty years?
What Walker did in Wisconsin is a stunning example of crushing the "dignity of individual rights" and grinding them into the dirt.
#31. To: buckeroo (#30)
#32. To: lucysmom (#31)
Perhaps its just a coincidence, but the US didn't become a first rate world power until unions became a significant influence in American life.
The growth of the middle class (and its demise) seems to be linked to the fortunes of the unions.
Unions certainly have had a positive impact on the life expectancy of Americans.
Again; What Walker did in Wisconsin is a stunning example of crushing the "dignity of individual rights" and grinding them into the dirt. The words in quotes are yours.
What Walker did was to decide that union members were so insignificant, of so little value that he didn't have to talk to them, allow them to have a voice or even choose of their own free will to sacrifice some of their benefits for the greater good, he ran roughshod over them, passed a law prohibiting them from having a voice, and now he has decided to ignore a court ordered stay prohibiting the publishing of his law.
These are not the acts of a freedom loving, individual rights respecting man who treats others with dignity; these are the acts of a dictator who crushes.
#33. To: buckeroo (#32)
Your desire to wag "unions" into this discussion as competitive market force had nothing to do with America as "a first rate world power"; "unions" came into being as a result of the 1860s far after the Industrial Revolution that America initiated. "Unions" became a fact because of child labor abuse as a result of the industrial revolution as well as worker safety and compensation characteristics. Unions did not lead the nation; unions lagged the nation and actually occurred coincident with Karl Marx's treatise on The Communist Manifesto.
#34. To: lucysmom (#31)
Perhaps its just a coincidence, but the US didn't become a first rate world power until unions became a significant influence in American life.
#35. To: e_type_jag (#34)
no need to stain my eyes with you anymore.
#36. To: e_type_jag (#34)
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