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Status: Not Logged In; Sign In U.S. Constitution See other U.S. Constitution Articles Title: President Obama Goes to War - Without Congress Source: American Thinker URL Source: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog ... dent_obama_goes_to_war_wi.html Published: Mar 20, 2011 Author: Wesley Clark, MD Post Date: 2011-03-20 16:49:31 by We The People Keywords: None Views: 115002 Comments: 105 Regardless of one's inclination toward the "freedom fighters" and the "monster" in Libya, or the wisdom of United States military intervention, there are certain formalities that are required, and that President Obama and his administration, including Secretary of State Clinton, appear determined to ignore, in violation of both the Constitution and United States Law. Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution specifies that it is the Congress that has the power to declare war. United States Code (50 U.S.C. 1541-1548), the War Powers Act, specifically states that the president may undertake the use of military force only in the case of "... a national emergency created by attack upon the United States, its territories or possessions, or its armed forces." It further states that the President must consult with Congress, "...in every possible instance shall consult with Congress before introducing United States Armed Forces into hostilities ..." Membership in the United Nations does not grant the Security Council the authority to order U.S. forces into action, and being the President does not permit Obama to violate the Constitution and the Law, to commit an act of war without the authorization of the People, through their Congress. Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest Comments (1-22) not displayed.       .       .       . #23. To: sneakypete (#21) LOL! Spoken as the TRUE libTURD WHORE and TOOL that we ALL know YOU to be little "man". Run along and suck your master's asshole, it's time for your lunch little "man". Eat it ALL up! Living in mouth breather's empty noggins 24/7/365 totally rent free! Mad Dog  posted on  2011-03-25   15:13:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #24. To: Mad Dog (#23) You're just angry because you no longer have a shipmate to hot bunk with,ain't ya? "I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114) sneakypete  posted on  2011-03-25   20:14:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #25. To: lucysmom (#6) (Edited) The War Powers Act gives the President 60 days before he needs Congressional approval. That is not true. The War Powers Resolution of 1973 (50 U.S.C. 1541–1548) was a United States Congress joint resolution providing that the President can send U.S. armed forces into action abroad only by authorization of Congress or if the United States is already under attack or serious threat.[citation needed] The War Powers Resolution requires the president to notify Congress within 48 hours of committing armed forces to military action and forbids armed forces from remaining for more than 60 days, with a further 30 day withdrawal period, without an authorization of the use of military force or a declaration of war. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Powers_Resolution We The People  posted on  2011-03-26   17:28:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #26. To: We The People (#25) That is not true. Not so fast. What does that little "[citation needed]" following the President can send U.S. armed forces into action abroad only by authorization of Congress or if the United States is already under attack or serious threat. mean? You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand lucysmom  posted on  2011-03-26   21:20:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #27. To: lucysmom (#26) (Edited) Not so fast. We both know what it means, but let's not play games. Let's forget the wiki site and go straight to the text of the resolution... www.law.cornell.edu/uscod..._50_00001541----000-.html (a) Congressional declaration It is the purpose of this chapter to fulfill the intent of the framers of the Constitution of the United States and insure that the collective judgment of both the Congress and the President will apply to the introduction of United States Armed Forces into hostilities, or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances, and to the continued use of such forces in hostilities or in such situations. (b) Congressional legislative power under necessary and proper clause Under article I, section 8, of the Constitution, it is specifically provided that the Congress shall have the power to make all laws necessary and proper for carrying into execution, not only its own powers but also all other powers vested by the Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any department or officer hereof. (c) Presidential executive power as Commander-in-Chief; limitation The constitutional powers of the President as Commander-in-Chief to introduce United States Armed Forces into hostilities, or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances, are exercised only pursuant to (1) a declaration of war, (2) specific statutory authorization, or (3) a national emergency created by attack upon the United States, its territories or possessions, or its armed forces. www.law.cornell.edu/uscod..._50_00001542----000-.html The President in every possible instance shall consult with Congress before introducing United States Armed Forces into hostilities or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances, and after every such introduction shall consult regularly with the Congress until United States Armed Forces are no longer engaged in hostilities or have been removed from such situations. There is no way around it, facts are facts. Obama has violated the US Constitution as well as the War Powers Resolution of 1973. We The People  posted on  2011-03-27   10:24:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #28. To: lucysmom (#26) Further... www.law.cornell.edu/uscod..._50_00001543----000-.html (a) Written report; time of submission; circumstances necessitating submission; information reported In the absence of a declaration of war, in any case in which United States Armed Forces are introduced— (1) into hostilities or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances; (2) into the territory, airspace or waters of a foreign nation, while equipped for combat, except for deployments which relate solely to supply, replacement, repair, or training of such forces; or (3) in numbers which substantially enlarge United States Armed Forces equipped for combat already located in a foreign nation; the President shall submit within 48 hours to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and to the President pro tempore of the Senate a report, in writing, setting forth— (A) the circumstances necessitating the introduction of United States Armed Forces; (B) the constitutional and legislative authority under which such introduction took place; and (C) the estimated scope and duration of the hostilities or involvement. (b) Other information reported The President shall provide such other information as the Congress may request in the fulfillment of its constitutional responsibilities with respect to committing the Nation to war and to the use of United States Armed Forces abroad. (c) Periodic reports; semiannual requirement Whenever United States Armed Forces are introduced into hostilities or into any situation described in subsection (a) of this section, the President shall, so long as such armed forces continue to be engaged in such hostilities or situation, report to the Congress periodically on the status of such hostilities or situation as well as on the scope and duration of such hostilities or situation, but in no event shall he report to the Congress less often than once every six months. We The People  posted on  2011-03-27   10:28:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #29. To: We The People (#27) The President in every possible instance shall consult with Congress before introducing United States Armed Forces into hostilities or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances... Obama is following the Reagan doctrine established when Reagan sent troops to Lebanon, Grenada, and bombed Libya. On April 14...Reagan again sent U.S. warplanes into Libyan air space, on this occasion bombing terrorist-related targets in Tripoli and Benghazi. By the time Congress learned of the operation, U.S. forces had done their job and had been removed from the situation of foreign hostilities. snip Congress took no action to oppose or undercut Reagan's military initiatives against the Marxist-Leninists in Grenada and against the Qaddafi regime in Libya. In the case of each of these initiatives, some of the more Leftist-leaning members of Congress and their political allies in the "news" media screamed like stuck pigs, but did very little more than that. www.proconservative.net/WarAmericaP5l.shtml It is a mistake to give one guy a pass and then insist the guy you don't like be held accountable fore the same behavior - it makes the insistence look partisan rather than principled. You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand lucysmom  posted on  2011-03-27   11:36:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #30. To: lucysmom (#29) It is a mistake to give one guy a pass and then insist the guy you don't like be held accountable fore the same behavior - it makes the insistence look partisan rather than principled. I haven't given anyone a pass for anything. I've spoken out about Reagans leftist leanings for years. Proof of that can still be read at LP. I am not a party boy, I am a conservative. But are you giving Obama a pass? Pointing out like behavior in another doesn't give Obama a pass, does it? I would have them both in prison if it were up to me. We The People  posted on  2011-03-27   11:49:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #31. To: We The People (#27) (2) specific statutory authorization, or Not knowing what that means, I looked it up. Here's what I found: Section 8(b) states that further specific statutory authorization is not required to permit members of United States Armed Forces to participate jointly with members of the armed forces of one or more foreign countries in the headquarters operations of high-level military commands which were established prior to the date of enactment of this joint resolution and pursuant to the United Nations Charter or any treaty ratified by the United States prior to such date. This section was added by the Senate to make clear that the resolution did not prevent U.S. forces from participating in certain joint military exercises with allied or friendly organizations or countries. The conference report stated that the "high-level" military commands meant the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, (NATO), the North American Air Defense Command (NORAD) and the United Nations command in Korea. www.fas.org/man/crs/RL32267.html It kinda looks like Obama is covered by "specific statutory authorization". (not that that makes any difference) You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand lucysmom  posted on  2011-03-27   11:51:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #32. To: We The People (#28) the President shall submit within 48 hours to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and to the President pro tempore of the Senate a report, in writing, setting forth— Obama's written report: www.whitehouse.gov/the-pr...encement-operations-libya You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand lucysmom  posted on  2011-03-27   11:58:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #33. To: lucysmom (#29) It is a mistake to give one guy a pass and then insist the guy you don't like be held accountable fore the same behavior - it makes the insistence look partisan rather than principled. Obama sure doesn't look to be the guy to dig us out, especially since the Libyan War thing started. But what I don't like is their looking to put back into power the GOP that caused all this crap in the first place. Without demanding that the GOP old guard be completely replaced. "http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi" Rek  posted on  2011-03-27   11:59:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #34. To: lucysmom (#31) the resolution did not prevent U.S. forces from participating in certain joint military exercises with allied or friendly organizations or countries. Sure, but this action toward Libya is not a 'joint military exercise'. This is not a training mission, this is an agressive military force against another country engaged in a civil war. We The People  posted on  2011-03-27   12:13:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #35. To: lucysmom (#31) It kinda looks like Obama is covered by "specific statutory authorization". I'm sorry, but it doesn't. A 'joint military exercise' is not actively engaging in hostilities against another country. A 'joint military exercise' is a training mission. We The People  posted on  2011-03-27   12:16:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #36. To: Rek (#33) But what I don't like is their looking to put back into power the GOP that caused all this crap in the first place. Without demanding that the GOP old guard be completely replaced. They desperately want to regain power and finish the job. You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand lucysmom  posted on  2011-03-27   12:22:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #37. To: We The People (#35) I'm sorry, but it doesn't. A 'joint military exercise' is not actively engaging in hostilities against another country. A 'joint military exercise' is a training mission. He's covered because he commands the biggest military in the world that backs him up. Isn't that 'might makes right' stuff what 'conservatives' live and die for? "http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi" Rek  posted on  2011-03-27   12:22:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #38. To: lucysmom (#32) the President shall submit within 48 hours to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and to the President pro tempore of the Senate a report, in writing, setting forth— Obama's written report: www.whitehouse.gov/the-pr...encement-operations-libya Note that notification is not the same as authorization, which is what the Constitution and the War Powers Resolution requires. The President was once a Senior Lecturer (not a professor) in Constitutional Law. In 2007 he knew what the President's duties were in this regard, but I guess it was different, since he wasn't the President: “The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation,” that was then candidate Obama answering a question from the press. We The People  posted on  2011-03-27   12:27:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #39. To: Rek (#37) Isn't that 'might makes right' stuff what 'conservatives' live and die for? No. That's what 'neoconservatives' live and die for. We The People  posted on  2011-03-27   12:28:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #40. To: Rek (#37) Isn't that 'might makes right' stuff what 'conservatives' live and die for? They like that power over everything stuff when in power and still think its their birth right when out of power. You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand lucysmom  posted on  2011-03-27   12:41:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #41. To: We The People (#39) No. That's what 'neoconservatives' live and die for. Then the Tea Baggers must be neoconservatives. "http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi" Rek  posted on  2011-03-27   12:49:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #42. To: lucysmom, Rek (#40) Isn't that 'might makes right' stuff what 'conservatives' live and die for? They like that power over everything stuff when in power and still think its their birth right when out of power. Conservatives haven't been 'in power' for decades, neoconservatives or the left have. Is that what this discussion is reduced to? Irrefutable facts have been presented, clearly outlining an unconstitutional and criminal act by a President of the United States, and all you two have is insults for conservatives who have had nothing to do with any of this middle eastern adventurism. We The People  posted on  2011-03-27   12:50:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #43. To: Rek (#41) Then the Tea Baggers must be neoconservatives. OK. Well, have a great day. We The People  posted on  2011-03-27   12:50:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #44. To: We The People (#38) Note that notification is not the same as authorization, which is what the Constitution and the War Powers Resolution requires. "the President shall submit within 48 hours to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and to the President pro tempore of the Senate a report, in writing, setting forth— (A) the circumstances necessitating the introduction of United States Armed Forces; (B) the constitutional and legislative authority under which such introduction took place; and (C) the estimated scope and duration of the hostilities or involvement. (b) Other information reported" So whats your point? You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand lucysmom  posted on  2011-03-27   12:54:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #45. To: lucysmom (#44) So whats your point? ...that notification is not the same as authorization... We The People  posted on  2011-03-27   12:58:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #46. To: We The People (#42) Irrefutable facts have been presented, clearly outlining an unconstitutional and criminal act by a President of the United States, and all you two have is insults for conservatives who have had nothing to do with any of this middle eastern adventurism. Are you kidding? This is being done to obtain energy and security for that center piece of conservativism......"Free Markets" "http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi" Rek  posted on  2011-03-27   13:00:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #47. To: We The People (#42) Conservatives haven't been 'in power' for decades, neoconservatives or the left have. Somehow I have a feeling you reject those Conservatives too. From 1936 to 1976 the more centrist of the Republican party frequently won the national nomination with candidates such as Alf Landon, Wendell Willkie, Thomas E. Dewey, Dwight D. Eisenhower, Richard Nixon, and Gerald Ford. The mainstream of the Republican party was generally supportive of the New Deal, and the far right was the more marginalized faction. In the 1950s conservatives like Barry Goldwater, who rallied against "me-too Republicans",[7] were considered outside of the mainstream of the then-centrist GOP; serious consideration was given to leaving the GOP and forming a new conservative party in cooperation with conservative Democrats.[8] Wikipedia You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand lucysmom  posted on  2011-03-27   13:03:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #48. To: We The People (#45) ...that notification is not the same as authorization... Obama was obligated to provide notification within 48 hours after the fact and did so. You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand lucysmom  posted on  2011-03-27   13:05:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #49. To: lucysmom (#32) Obama's written report: www.whitehouse.gov/the-pr...encement-operations-libya TEXT OF A LETTER FROM THE PRESIDENT TO THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES AND THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE OF THE SENATE March 21, 2011 Dear Mr. Speaker: (Dear Mr. President:) At approximately 3:00 p.m. Eastern Daylight Time, on March 19, 2011, at my direction, U.S. military forces commenced operations to assist an international effort authorized by the United Nations (U.N.) Security Council and undertaken with the support of European allies and Arab partners, to prevent a humanitarian catastrophe and address the threat posed to international peace and security by the crisis in Libya. As part of the multilateral response authorized under U.N. Security Council Resolution 1973, U.S. military forces, under the command of Commander, U.S. Africa Command, began a series of strikes against air defense systems and military airfields for the purposes of preparing a no-fly zone. These strikes will be limited in their nature, duration, and scope. Their purpose is to support an international coalition as it takes all necessary measures to enforce the terms of U.N. Security Council Resolution 1973. These limited U.S. actions will set the stage for further action by other coalition partners. United Nations Security Council Resolution 1973 authorized Member States, under Chapter VII of the U.N. Charter, to take all necessary measures to protect civilians and civilian populated areas under threat of attack in Libya, including the establishment and enforcement of a "no-fly zone" in the airspace of Libya. United States military efforts are discrete and focused on employing unique U.S. military capabilities to set the conditions for our European allies and Arab partners to carry out the measures authorized by the U.N. Security Council Resolution. Muammar Qadhafi was provided a very clear message that a cease-fire must be implemented immediately. The international community made clear that all attacks against civilians had to stop; Qadhafi had to stop his forces from advancing on Benghazi; pull them back from Ajdabiya, Misrata, and Zawiya; and establish water, electricity, and gas supplies to all areas. Finally, humanitarian assistance had to be allowed to reach the people of Libya. Although Qadhafi's Foreign Minister announced an immediate cease-fire, Qadhafi and his forces made no attempt to implement such a cease-fire, and instead continued attacks on Misrata and advanced on Benghazi. Qadhafi's continued attacks and threats against civilians and civilian populated areas are of grave concern to neighboring Arab nations and, as expressly stated in U.N. Security Council Resolution 1973, constitute a threat to the region and to international peace and security. His illegitimate use of force (irony?) not only is causing the deaths of substantial numbers of civilians among his own people, but also is forcing many others to flee to neighboring countries, thereby destabilizing the peace and security of the region. Left unaddressed, the growing instability in Libya could ignite wider instability in the Middle East, with dangerous consequences to the national security interests of the United States. Qadhafi's defiance of the Arab League, as well as the broader international community moreover, represents a lawless challenge to the authority of the Security Council and its efforts to preserve stability in the region. Qadhafi has forfeited his responsibility to protect his own citizens and created a serious need for immediate humanitarian assistance and protection, with any delay only putting more civilians at risk. The United States has not deployed ground forces into Libya. United States forces are conducting a limited and well-defined mission in support of international efforts to protect civilians and prevent a humanitarian disaster. Accordingly, U.S. forces have targeted the Qadhafi regime's air defense systems, command and control structures, and other capabilities of Qadhafi's armed forces used to attack civilians and civilian populated areas. We will seek a rapid, but responsible, transition of operations to coalition, regional, or international organizations that are postured to continue activities as may be necessary to realize the objectives of U.N. Security Council Resolutions 1970 and 1973. For these purposes, I have directed these actions, which are in the national security and foreign policy interests of the United States, pursuant to my constitutional authority to conduct U.S. foreign relations and as Commander in Chief and Chief Executive. I am providing this report as part of my efforts to keep the Congress fully informed, consistent with the War Powers Resolution. I appreciate the support of the Congress in this action. BARACK OBAMA We The People  posted on  2011-03-27   13:10:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #50. To: lucysmom (#48) Obama was obligated to provide notification within 48 hours after the fact and did so. Obama was obligated to follow the US Constitution and the War powers Resolution of 1973 and did not. We The People  posted on  2011-03-27   13:11:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #51. To: Rek (#46) Are you kidding? This is being done to obtain energy and security for that center piece of conservativism......"Free Markets" Really? Cause that's not what Obama states is happening. We The People  posted on  2011-03-27   13:13:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #52. To: lucysmom (#48) Obama was obligated to provide notification within 48 hours after the fact and did so. Are you saying that you believe the 'notification within 48 hours' relieves him of his obligation to gain Congressional 'authorization', in a case which is CLEARLY not an imminent threat to the US? We The People  posted on  2011-03-27   13:15:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #53. To: We The People (#49) Okay. Again, what is your point? Obama explained his reason for acting as he did. That explanation fulfills his War Powers Act requirements. You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand lucysmom  posted on  2011-03-27   13:17:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #54. To: lucysmom (#53) (Edited) Obama explained his reason for acting as he did. That explanation fulfills his War Powers Act requirements. Come now. You're an intelligent person. You can't possibly believe that statement. If that's the case, then ANY president can take this nation into hostilities or war and his only requirement is to explain his actions? We The People  posted on  2011-03-27   13:21:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #55. To: We The People (#51) Really? Cause that's not what Obama states is happening. He's playing to HIS audience. "http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi" Rek  posted on  2011-03-27   13:23:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #56. To: We The People (#52) Are you saying that you believe the 'notification within 48 hours' relieves him of his obligation to gain Congressional 'authorization', in a case which is CLEARLY not an imminent threat to the US? I would say that Libya is the same level, if not greater threat to the US as Grenada was when Reagan invaded. You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand lucysmom  posted on  2011-03-27   13:24:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #57. To: Rek (#55) Really? Cause that's not what Obama states is happening. He's playing to HIS audience. I'd much rather discuss the facts of this issue, rather than your feelings or hunches. Unless you're privy to some high level communications that the rest of us aren't privy to, your comments are mere speculation and poor attempts at justification. We The People  posted on  2011-03-27   13:25:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #58. To: We The People (#54) Come now. You're an intelligent person. You can't possibly believe that statement. For the moment, yes. It ain't done yet. You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand lucysmom  posted on  2011-03-27   13:26:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #59. To: lucysmom (#56) I would say that Libya is the same level, if not greater threat to the US as Grenada was when Reagan invaded. You're trying to justify an illegal act. Neither Libya or Granada is or was a threat to the US. We The People  posted on  2011-03-27   13:27:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #60. To: lucysmom (#58) For the moment, yes. It ain't done yet. My hunch about your intelligence was correct. And, that was meant as a compliment, not an insult. We The People  posted on  2011-03-27   13:29:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #61. To: We The People (#59) You're trying to justify an illegal act. Neither Libya or Granada is or was a threat to the US. I'm not sure the act is illegal. It will be debated. Don't confuse a call for consistency with an attempt at justification. You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand lucysmom  posted on  2011-03-27   13:31:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #62. To: lucysmom (#61) Don't confuse a call for consistency with an attempt at justification. To be perfectly honest, I'm not seeing that consistency. I see you hesitating to accept facts about one president that you readily accept about others, concerning the same issue. We The People  posted on  2011-03-27   13:36:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #63. To: We The People (#57) I'd much rather discuss the facts of this issue, rather than your feelings or hunches. Unless you're privy to some high level communications that the rest of us aren't privy to, your comments are mere speculation and poor attempts at justification. Maybe selling it to the Tea Baggers would be a better move in your book. Or believing Bush's rationale for two wars years after the true facts came out. One fact that's set in stone is that all politicians lie to get their way. "http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi" Rek  posted on  2011-03-27   13:37:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply         .       .       . Comments (64 - 105) not displayed. Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest

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