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Title: Is Wisconsin the Real Republican Waterloo?
Source:
Forbes
URL Source: [None]
Published: Mar 10, 2011
Author: E.D. Kain
Post Date: 2011-03-10 13:43:39 by go65
Keywords: None
Views: 51113
Comments: 76
After the Affordable Care Act was passed in 2010, conservative writer David Frum called the passage of the bill the GOP’s “Waterloo” referencing Napoleon Bonaparte’s crushing defeat at the hands of the Duke of Wellington. This earned him the ire of his fellow conservatives and pushed him further outside the conservative movement. But David was wrong. If anything, the healthcare reform victory was the GOP’s Siege of Acre. Wisconsin is shaping up to be the real Waterloo. And not just Wisconsin, but also Indiana, Michigan, Ohio, Arizona, Florida, and the rest of the over- reaching state Republicans. Governors like Scott Walker, Rick Scott, and Jan Brewer are riding on the coattails of the Tea Party, but they’ve become blind to the dangers of their radical policies. In Wisconsin, Democrats are already promising to step-up recall efforts. But the recalls are only a small part of what is likely going to be a huge anti-Republican backlash across the nation, as working Americans finally realize what that party actually stands for: an playing field heavily tilted toward the rich and powerful, toward corporate power, and against worker rights.
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Full article: http://blogs.forbes.com/erikkain/2011/03/10/is-wisconsin-the-real-republican- waterloo/
Since January 3, 2011, Republicans have controlled the power of the purse.
Utter nonsense. What we are actually witnessing here is the final death of the 20th century. It isn't just the GOP proposing to make radical change. Look at governor Cuomo in New York. He's beating up on government bureaucrat unions too. He's now also proposing radical tort reform and part of his efforts to reign in healthcare costs. Reactionaries from government bureaucrats to trial lawyers are lashing out. It's not a surprise. The bottom line is that this is all simple math. We can no longer afford to have the unproductive segment of society leach off of the productive segment. We can no longer afford to fund schools and teachers that pump out functional illiterates. We can no longer afford to hand people checks to putter around in Florida in their lime green golf pants for 15 or 20 years. We are in a competitive global economy. This can't work anymore.
So your solution is to under pay teachers who will educate the next generation? Ok, you will come back and say - no you don't to pay for this current crop of teachers. OK, let's say we fire them all and hire MIT geniuses as teachers. You think MIT grads will work for public schools that pay 50 grand a year? So then we will have to raise taxes and pay teachers 100K to 200K a year for the quality you are claiming would justify the increased taxes. I will leave out the part about keeping old people alive and just concentrate on the educational matters. By the way, we can afford all this if we tax the unproductive rich in America. I don't get this rich worship as if the rich somehow earned it and they are responsible for keeping all us lowly serfs from living in dirt.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
My solution is to eliminate the coercive government monopoly and the union rules that favor failed teachers because of seniority so that we can hire some good teachers who will actually teach our kids something.
i wonder if they do a good job like the current teachers (CNSNews.com) - Two-thirds of the eighth graders in Wisconsin public schools cannot read proficiently according to the U.S. Department of Education, despite the fact that Wisconsin spends more per pupil in its public schools than any other state in the Midwest. In the National Assessment of Educational Progress tests administered by the U.S. Department of Education in 2009—the latest year available—only 32 percent of Wisconsin public-school eighth graders earned a “proficient” rating while another 2 percent earned an “advanced” rating. The other 66 percent of Wisconsin public-school eighth graders earned ratings below “proficient,” including 44 percent who earned a rating of “basic” and 22 percent who earned a rating of “below basic.”
"That's our money it's not for your f**king Kids" Various Teacher's Union signs.
So that goes back to the point I made to you earlier, your wife may have a small business, but she isn't as productive as say a stock broker in NYC making $150 million a year. And you certainly aren't as productive as that broker either. Agreed?
Since January 3, 2011, Republicans have controlled the power of the purse.
MIT geniuses make far less than say the CEO of ExxonMobil, which makes them less productive. What Jwpegler really wants is for the productive members of society, those making in the tens or hundreds of millions a year, do educate our students. I'm waiting to hear his plan as to how he's going to make that happen.
Since January 3, 2011, Republicans have controlled the power of the purse.
I'm waiting to hear his plan as to how he's going to make that happen. What are you babbling about? Here's my plan: Supply and Demand in a Competitive Market. Supply and demand does a great job setting the price for computer programmers, all sorts of engineers, lawyers, accountants, and even auto mechanics. Supply and demand will set the right price for teachers as well. It's just that simple.
Yea, because the market is correct in valuing the salary of say, sports stars over say teachers....... You so called conservative types have no clue what to do when you get the helm of the ship other than spout ideological slogans. You don't even want to copy the successful educational models from around the world because maybe a sex ed class would slip in and Americans may become like Scandinavians or something.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
So who should decide how much a sports star earns? You? Obama??? Or the tens of millions of people who decide for themselves to spend their own money to watch a game??? The free market is the ultimate democracy because it requires that people vote with their hard earned money. I don't spend my money going to sports games, buying burgers at McDonalds, and on a whole bunch of other things that many Americans enjoy. But unlike you, I am not angry and resentful of the people who deliver products and services that others like and I don't. I am angry when I am FORCED to pay for things that I don't want and just don't work, like the rotten government monopoly schools.
The free market is the ultimate democracy because it requires that people vote with their hard earned money. A) The free market is not a democracy but if it was our founding fathers had bad things to say about democracy - tyranny of the majority and all that - so if we hold your analogy to be true and the free market is a democracy we need to have checks and balances in place to protect the poor (minority in a democracy) from the tyranny of the rich (majority) and from each other, just like we do in this republic. B) We can correct the stupidity/irrational free market practice of paying athletes or actors or rock stars millions by taxing them higher. Thank you.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
So how do you feel about possibly paying (with your taxes) some of the people on this website to sit at home all day argueing with you??????
"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning
I hate paying for all these retired people on SS who argue against the benefits keeping them alive but what can you do.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
It's called competition.
Capitalism leads to the elimination of competition which is why Republicans like Teddy Roosevelt broke up monopolies so again you have the govt involved as a check and balance.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
So are you saying you have a job?????
"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning
Oh please... Get your face out of your text books and join the real world. Capitalism leads to a dynamic economy where competition expands or narrows in a cycle depending on the circumstances. It does this a market segment at a time (e.g., airlines versus computers could be on very different trajectories simultaneously). Every time competition in a market narrows, something (like a disruptive technology or disruptive business model) comes and blows the market open again. It's a cycle of innovation, imitation, intense competition, drive to efficiency, consolidation... start again. That's how it works. We don't need no stinking government distorting this process.
He changes bedpans at the local nursing home.
When monopolies grow they stifle innovation/competition. It took the breaking apart of the phone monopoly to get cell service to grow, cheap long distance, etc.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
Why would you use that as a slur? I don't do this work but it is a profession I think Jesus would honor if he was on this earth at the moment. Thanks for proving once again that Republicans only show respect to the rich who don't do manual labor and demand that public employees who earn so little be even more distressed.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
I just asked you if you had a job????? I do manual labor for a living so whats the big deal????? Public employees do not make "so little".... at least not where I'm from.... How much do they make where you're from??????
"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning
LOL. AT&T was essentially a government protected monopoly at both the federal and state levels. The telecommunications act of 1934 declared that AT&T was a "public service corporation", subject to both state and federal regulations. In exchange for accepting government over site of pricing, AT&T was generally protected from competition until MCI filed suit decades later. AT&T would have been broken up by market forces much earlier if the government hadn't gotten their sticky fingers all over the market. The same type of people who said for decades that there couldn't be competition in phone services are the ones who tell us today that there can't be any competition in trash collection, fire protection, or education.
They may try to do this, but in the end there is always someone with a better approach that will come knock you down. Look at the computer industry over the last 4 decades. IBM had a near monopoly in mainframe computers. Then DEC came out with the mini-computer and stole a big piece of IBM's market. DEC didn't understand the PC and Microsoft put them out of business. At that point, IBM was on the ropes and decided to reinvent itself as a services company. Now Apple has smartphone and tablets, and Microsoft is struggling to keep up. This is how it works in relatively unregulated markets. Yes, when government steps in a regulates things it screws this process up.
Get of off your high horse. I started pumping gas when I was 13 for $1.60 an hour. When I was 19, I enlisted in the Air Force, living in a roach infested barracks and earning a whopping $400 a month. When I got out of the Air Force, I worked my way through college (Carter eliminated the GI Bill so I got no help whatsoever from the government). I've worked my ass off and I still do. The hardest working people in the country are small business owners, like myself and my wife. Unlike you, I am not resentful that others got to go to an ivy league school. I am unhappy that many of them did it at taxpayer's expense. That has to stop too.
Great - so those who can't afford a good education simply don't get one? Those with special needs kids that can't afford to get them the services they need simply go without? Seriously?
Since January 3, 2011, Republicans have controlled the power of the purse.
They don't get one today. If parents had a choice where to send their kids, most kids would be better off.
So I see you also detest those who do honest work. Garbagemen must be the scum of the earth according to your elitist Republican standards.
"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"
What elitist standards are you referring to? Have you checked out the wages of NYC garbagemen? They are pretty damn elitist in their own sense.
Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??
They are pretty damn elitist in their own sense. Sounds like a reality show ..."The Elitist Garbagemen of NYC/New Jersey".... who knew? Some who change bedpans make big wages too but it's not high enough on the totem pole for that snob, JwPegler.
"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"
They make 80,000 dollars a year, smartass. Which puts them in what the top 25% of wage earners. How much do you advocate raising the taxes of these elitists?
Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??
The free market is the ULTIMATE democracy. The reality is that people ALWAYS vote with their wallet... And this is the basis of economics (another area that you clearly don't know SHIT about)... Economics allows us to predict the behaviors of groups of people, in how they vote with their money, based on preference curves, customer-perceived values, intrinsic value, etc. Another fatal flaw in your thinking! In a truly free market, there is sufficient information to the customer to make rational decisions, consistently. The market becomes UNFREE when government distorts costs, features, customer-perceived and intrinsic values of commodities. In the sports-genre, athletes get high salaries because the franchises have rules that allow them to do so. The NFL franchise is NOT a free market, never has been. It receives tax breaks and subsidies on a regular basis- like free sports-stadiums, for example- that again distort the costs, and make it so that the customer cannot possibly make rational decisions. The entertainment industry is more of a free market than sports franchises- though I haven't enough information about that industry to make a side-by-side comparison of sweetheart deals, tax breaks, revenues, etc. Your "tyranny of the rich" is another government-created monster... when pols and business leaders get into bed together, competition is stifled or eliminated, and the "rich get richer." WHO could be doing this today, getting into bed with big business, you ask? No other than your feckless shitbag leader, bullcrap hussein obongo. One need only look at the "waivers" given for health care, to see that the whole thing is a complete shake-down... "Pay up" to obongo, and you'll get a waiver. Don't pay up, and we'll regulate your company out of existence. Face it, gobsheit... You THINK you think. But the truth is, you'd rather die than think.
Socialist ass-hats think "There will be no more money when the U.S. dollar has no value, until that time we can keep printing more." And yes, that IS from LF's answer to Ben Bernanke, go65, leading disfunctional and delusional socialist of the forum. "You want me to kill THE ENEMIES of Jappos, I'll kill THE ENEMIES of Jappos, Rebs, or Sioux, or Cheyenne... For 500 bucks a month I'll kill whoever you want. But keep one thing in mind: I'd happily kill you for free." Algren, "The Last Samurai" It's that beloved supply and demand that the prissy Free Traders love to throw around,. But unlike most free traders they actually provide a vital service. I bet you couldn't keep up with the average NYC garbageman for 2 hours much less eight. I saw the routine on Dirtiest Jobs, with Mike Rowe trying to keep up with one of the guys.... walking up flights of stairs and taking down huge sacks of garbage. He was exhausted after an hour. And they do this night after night.
"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"
Ping to #32.
Socialist ass-hats think "There will be no more money when the U.S. dollar has no value, until that time we can keep printing more." And yes, that IS from LF's answer to Ben Bernanke, go65, leading disfunctional and delusional socialist of the forum. "You want me to kill THE ENEMIES of Jappos, I'll kill THE ENEMIES of Jappos, Rebs, or Sioux, or Cheyenne... For 500 bucks a month I'll kill whoever you want. But keep one thing in mind: I'd happily kill you for free." Algren, "The Last Samurai" There is not and never was any such thing as a "Free Market". It's just another religious figment thrown around by your high priests for the rubes to gnaw on and stay out of trouble.
"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"
We did, until 1913. Now, STFU.
Socialist ass-hats think "There will be no more money when the U.S. dollar has no value, until that time we can keep printing more." And yes, that IS from LF's answer to Ben Bernanke, go65, leading disfunctional and delusional socialist of the forum. "You want me to kill THE ENEMIES of Jappos, I'll kill THE ENEMIES of Jappos, Rebs, or Sioux, or Cheyenne... For 500 bucks a month I'll kill whoever you want. But keep one thing in mind: I'd happily kill you for free." Algren, "The Last Samurai" So what's your problem? You couldn't keep up with me with what i do.
Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??
Now, STFU. BS...... markets in the US have been historically managed in one form or another since this country's inception. What do you think the CW or the RW were all about.
"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"
You couldn't keep up with me with what i do. But unlike you garbagemen provide a vital service.
"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"
I think He would too. It takes a special kind of person to be a caregiver; it requires patience, creativity, and is just plain hard work.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
So if I could find illegals or otherwise non unionned employees who would do that for half the price, you would would support it?
Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??
That's $400 a month plus room and board, medical, and dental which is a hell of a lot more than many working Americans have.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
Good post. A lot of folks think the antagonism was about slavery. That is untrue. What happened was the northern financiers controlled the southern farmers to the point of breaking the nation. It was about money; not ethics; not standards or values. The civil war was about free trade based on 200 years of earlier tradition.
to be brutally honest, I think you are giving the parents too much credit. We're fortunate to go to a school with a ton of parental involvement, and as a result, our kids do way better than average and we have a lot of extra-curricular activities run by parent volunteers. A few days ago I caught up with a friend of mine who teaches at the elementary level in a poorer area school. We got to talking about our school and he was absolutely stunned. He has to beg for volunteers to help the class, and parents are rarely reachable or show any interest in their kids education. Meanwhile, the kids have every electronic gadget under the sun. The point here is that parents are as responsible for their kids education as are the schools. Conservatives often seem to forget that part when the place all the blame on teachers.
Since January 3, 2011, Republicans have controlled the power of the purse.
Doocy Forwards Falsehood That Obama Administration Is Issuing Waivers "As Little Favors To Friends Of The Democrats." Fox & Friends co-host Steve Doocy said: http://mediamatters.org/research/201101270037 but never mind... Face it, gobsheit... You THINK you think. But the truth is, you'd rather die than think. As if you were capable of making that judgment.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
Are you talking about the era that gave birth to the labor unions?
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
Funny how you freedom loving people like to give orders.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
I have noticed these kook conservatives always overstate the salaries of public workers. http://www.nyc.gov/html/dsny/html/jobs/jobs.shtml The current starting salary of a Sanitation Worker is $31,200 per year. The current labor agreement provides for periodic increases to a maximum of $67,141 after 5 1/2 years.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
Yeah, but what about the benefits?
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
Since most definitions of a free market seem to hinge on the lack of regulations, government interference or subsidy, again Somalia seems like the most logical country on earth to host such activity. Eric needs only to emigrate there to find all the market conditions he covets.
"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"
So whats wrong with making $67,000 a year, its a hell of a lot more than flipping burgers. But, its still less than what the Wisconsin school teachers are making.... And right under the add for Sanitation workers an add for a paper pusher. Guess sitting on your ass is worth more that actually having to work for a living.... typical Liberals..... City of New York DEPARTMENT OF SANITATION Job Vacancy Notice Civil Service Title: Administrative Staff Analyst Level: II Title Code No: 10026 Salary: $54,740 – $100,000 Office Title: Deputy Director of Payrolls Work location: Manhattan Division/Work Unit: Human Resources/Payroll Number of Positions: 1 And you still haven't answered the question, "Do you currently have a job"????
"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning
I am independently weatlthy, I made a killing destroying American manufacturing and sending it overseas. Which means I am a Republican hero. I can buy and sell you like the peasant you are. And the issue is saying a sanitation worker makes $80 grand ayear - which is a lie. And that position - is a for an admin position - I rather pay the office workers less and the truck crew more and reverse the payment structure and like in most job adverts - no one starts off making 100K.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
It does seem ideal doesn't it. However small government, free market types like strong government protection of individual property rights and courts to protect them from the consequences of their wrong doing. In the US, they say taxes are collected at the point of a gun; in Somalia where no one is burdened by government, everything is done at the point of a gun as befitting a free people.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
No gun control laws in Somalia. Makes Texas look like a communist bastion.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
There is a great difference between private sector garbage men and government bureaucrat garbage men in terms of quality, cost and efficiency. I have nothing but respect for people who work hard. Government bureaucrats don't.
Excellent post! The price system is actually a very efficient system of information about supply and demand. The housing bubble was a perfect example of the effects of government distorting information in the economy. The government artificially suppressed interest rates over the last couple of decades and also created numerous programs to entice people to invest in housing. This was on top of the home mortgage income tax deduction. So, Americans over invested in housing and under invested in other areas, like new business creation. Inevitably, the government's scheme has collapsed.
To be brutal honest, you are looking at the horrible problems in a tiny, tiny portion of the population and extrapolating them to the population at large. This is what leftists always do, which is why we have so many intrusive programs and regulations.
Most parents have never taken and calculus class or physics class. Unfortunately, most public school science and math "teachers" haven't either. You can't take a Phys Ed major, hand him a physics book, send him into a classroom, and expect him to produce world class students. Unfortunately, the unions are all about protecting their monopolies so they won't let someone with a math, science, engineering, or computer science degree into the classroom unless they go back to college to get a worthless teaching degree. I have a friend who I worked with at Microsoft in the 1990s. Very smart guy and very left-wing. He decided to go back to school, get his teaching degree, and teach math in the public schools. He quickly became frustrated over the fact that most teachers cared more about politics and following their stupid union work rules than they did about the kids. To him, the teacher's mindless selfishness was unbearable. So he quit teaching after one school year. I have another friend who I worked with at the Accenture subsidiary, who left to start her own elementary school after she got frustrated with the poor quality of eduction her own kids were receiving in school. She is doing very well in her education business. People all over the political spectrum are waking up to what is really going on in the schools. The NEA's era of unrestricted control is finally coming to an end. It's not a moment too soon.
I haven't seen that in our schools. You still haven't answered the question - what do you about those who can't afford to pay for a private education?
Since January 3, 2011, Republicans have controlled the power of the purse.
Having worked in Silicon Valley's high tech industry I can tell you from experience that engineers and computer science people are not noted for their communication skills. Doesn't matter how smart and knowledgeable a teacher is, if he can't communicate what he knows, he's useless in the classroom.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
You are confusing two things: A.) whether education is a public good and B.) whether government should have a monopoly on the provision of the service. Most people would answer yes to A. The answer to B is absolutely not. You can set up a system of refundable tax credits or vouchers to pay for education. If the parents had a choice on where to sending their kids, all kinds of different schools would spring up, including military boarding schools for troublesome kids.
Yeah, and all blacks are criminals, all Poles are stupid, etc. It's nothing more than a stereo type. There are kinds of smart people in the technology industry. I'm in the technology services business and we have to be great communicators because everyone deals directly with customers.
tax credits won't help the working poor, and who's going to pay for the vouchers? Certainly you aren't expecting the productive class to have to give up their hard earned money to pay for services for the unproductive class, right?
Since January 3, 2011, Republicans have controlled the power of the purse.
The taxpayers are going to pay for the vouchers. One of the things Walker wants to do is hand out more vouchers. Walker's budget proposal would drop the cap on the number of total vouchers, expand the voucher option beyond the City of Milwaukee to pupils from the Milwaukee suburbs, and lift the income restriction, enabling kids from higher income families to take advantage of the vouchers. (Though private schools can charge pupils an additional tuition fee if the family's income is 325 percent or more of the poverty level, some of the private schools say that the per pupil voucher payment is not enough.) http://www.nonprofitquarterly.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=10271:school-vouchers-multiply-in-gov-walkers-wisconsin-state-budget&catid=155:nonprofit-newswire&Itemid=986 Several years ago (I don't know what it is now) tuition at the good private schools was $35,000 a year - the state pays under $8,000 per student.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
Go look up the term refundable tax credit. People get it whether they paid taxes or not. For the working poor, it's like a negative income tax.
Stop being an a-hole.
Walker is trying to fix the schools. That's the entire point of stripping unions of their monopoly power over education. Now they can fire bad teachers and implement performance bonuses for good ones. Obama's Secretary of Education tried to pursue radical education reform through school choice in Chicago and he was BASHED by the unions and professional left as well.
Maybe, maybe not! What about how much benefits adds to his package?????
"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning
I thought that made you a Liberal hero??? They want the unemployment rate high to get more people on the government dole. They seem to think this adds up to more votes for them....... Oh by the way thanks for the answer, you just helped me make another $20 bucks off of Stone..... he he he......
"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning
Oh, I thought the purpose was balancing the budget (this is beginning to remind me of the reasons Bush went to war with Iraq). Wisconsin ranks 3rd for SAT scores and 13th for ACT scores - in other words, they're doing pretty darn well. Go look and see where conservative Texas ranks.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
It used to mean more votes for them. But no more. Those days are gone and people have awoken.
Yep, that is the short term goal. The long term goal is to fix the schools. Everyone who has taken an honest look at this understands what the short and long term goals are. There is no secret. It's all out on the table. Walker said it again yesterday on Fox and today on Morning Joe. It's very clear.
They don't squat by global standards. We are in a global economy.
Everyone who has taken an honest look at this understands what the short and long term goals are. You know, we have several very nice bridges here, and I've been given the exclusive contract to sell them...
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
Walker has been saying the exact same things all along. He said them again yesterday on Fox and today on Morning Joe (MSNBC). This is all very, very clear. The NEA is out of control. Our schools are failing. We are paying too much for failing schools. Governor Cuomo of NY is taking on the unions and also the trial lawyers. It is a HUGE deal when a Democrat governor goes after his two largest pressure groups at once. It should tell everyone that there is something very wrong with the system.
Yea I seen those graphs/charts the other day, Wisconsin results are based on testing about 1/5th the amount of students than the other states, so I wouldn't put too mch stock into that.........
"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning
#2. To: go65 (#0)
(Edited)
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#3. To: jwpegler, go65 (#2)
The bottom like is that this is all simple math. We can no longer afford to have the unproductive segment of society leach off of the productive segment. We can no longer afford to fund schools and teachers that pump out functional illiterates. We can no longer afford to hand people checks to putter around in Florida in their lime green golf pants for 15 or 20 years.
#4. To: Godwinson (#3)
(Edited)
So your solution is to under pay teachers who will educate the next generation?
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#5. To: Godwinson (#3)
(Edited)
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#6. To: Godwinson (#3)
So your solution is to under pay teachers who will educate the next generation?
#7. To: jwpegler (#2)
The bottom line is that this is all simple math. We can no longer afford to have the unproductive segment of society leach off of the productive segment.
#8. To: Godwinson, jwpegler (#3)
Ok, you will come back and say - no you don't to pay for this current crop of teachers. OK, let's say we fire them all and hire MIT geniuses as teachers. You think MIT grads will work for public schools that pay 50 grand a year? So then we will have to raise taxes and pay teachers 100K to 200K a year for the quality you are claiming would justify the increased taxes.
#9. To: go65 (#8)
(Edited)
What Jwpegler really wants is for the productive members of society, those making in the tens or hundreds of millions a year, do educate our students.
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#10. To: jwpegler, go65 (#9)
Supply and demand will set the right price for teachers as well.
#11. To: Godwinson, capitalist eric (#10)
(Edited)
Yea, because the market is correct in valuing the salary of say, sports stars over say teachers.......
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#12. To: jwpegler, capitalist eric, go65 (#11)
(Edited)
So who should decide how much a sports star earns? You? Obama??? Or the tens of millions of people who decide for themselves to spend their own money to watch a game???
#13. To: jwpegler (#11)
I am angry when I am FORCED to pay for things that I don't want and just don't work, like the rotten government monopoly schools.
#14. To: CZ82 (#13)
So how do you feel about possibly paying (with your taxes) some of the people on this website to sit at home all day argueing with you??????
#15. To: Godwinson (#12)
if the free market is a democracy we need to have checks and balances in place
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#16. To: jwpegler (#15)
It's called competition.
#17. To: Godwinson (#14)
I hate paying for all these retired people on SS who argue against the benefits keeping them alive but what can you do.
#18. To: Godwinson (#16)
(Edited)
Capitalism leads to the elimination of competition
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#19. To: CZ82 (#17)
So are you saying you have a job?????
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#20. To: jwpegler (#18)
It's a cycle of innovation, imitation, intense competition, drive to efficiency, consolidation... start again. That's how it works.
#21. To: jwpegler, CZ82, go65, lucysmom (#19)
(Edited)
He changes bedpans at the local nursing home.
#22. To: Godwinson (#21)
Thanks for proving once again that Republicans only show respect to the rich who don't do manual labor and demand that public employees who earn so little be even more distressed.
#23. To: Godwinson (#20)
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#24. To: Godwinson (#20)
(Edited)
When monopolies grow they stifle innovation/competition.
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#25. To: Godwinson (#21)
(Edited)
Thanks for proving once again that Republicans only show respect to the rich who don't do manual labor
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#26. To: jwpegler (#9)
Here's my plan: Supply and Demand in a Competitive Market.
#27. To: go65 (#26)
so those who can't afford a good education simply don't get one?
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#28. To: jwpegler (#19)
He changes bedpans at the local nursing home.
#29. To: Rek (#28)
Garbagemen must be the scum of the earth according to your elitist Republican standards.
#30. To: no gnu taxes, jwpegler (#29)
(Edited)
What elitist standards are you referring to? Have you checked out the wages of NYC garbagemen?
#31. To: Rek (#30)
Sounds like a reality show ..."The Elitist Garbagemen of NYC/New Jersey".
#32. To: Godwinson (#12)
A) The free market is not a democracy...
B) We can correct the stupidity/irrational free market practice of paying athletes or actors or rock stars millions by taxing them higher.
#33. To: no gnu taxes (#31)
They make 80,000 dollars a year, smartass. Which puts them in what the top 25% of wage earners. How much do you advocate raising the taxes of these elitists?
#34. To: jwpegler (#27)
#35. To: Capitalist Eric (#32)
The free market is the ULTIMATE democracy. The reality is that people ALWAYS vote with their wallet... And this is the basis of economics (another area that you clearly don't know SHIT about)... Economics allows us to predict the behaviors of groups of people, in how they vote with their money, based on preference curves, customer-perceived values, intrinsic value, etc.
#36. To: Rek (#35)
There is not and never was any such thing as a "Free Market".
#37. To: Rek (#33)
It's that beloved supply and demand
#38. To: Capitalist Eric (#36)
(Edited)
We did, until 1913.
#39. To: no gnu taxes (#37)
So what's your problem?
#40. To: Godwinson, jwpegler, CZ82, go65 (#21)
Why would you use that as a slur? I don't do this work but it is a profession I think Jesus would honor if he was on this earth at the moment.
#41. To: All (#37)
#42. To: jwpegler (#25)
When I was 19, I enlisted in the Air Force, living in a roach infested barracks and earning a whopping $400 a month.
#43. To: Rek (#38)
markets in the US have been historically managed in one form or another since this country's inception. What do you think the CW [Civil War] or the RW were all about.
#44. To: jwpegler (#27)
(Edited)
They don't get one today. If parents had a choice where to send their kids, most kids would be better off.
#45. To: Capitalist Eric, Godwinson (#32)
WHO could be doing this today, getting into bed with big business, you ask? No other than your feckless shitbag leader, bullcrap hussein obongo. One need only look at the "waivers" given for health care, to see that the whole thing is a complete shake-down... "Pay up" to obongo, and you'll get a waiver. Don't pay up, and we'll regulate your company out of existence.
#46. To: Capitalist Eric (#36)
We did, until 1913.
#47. To: Capitalist Eric, Godwinson, Rek (#36)
Now, STFU.
#48. To: no gnu taxes, Rek (#31)
Sounds like a reality show ..."The Elitist Garbagemen of NYC/New Jersey". They make 80,000 dollars a year, smartass.
#49. To: Godwinson (#48)
The current starting salary of a Sanitation Worker is $31,200 per year. The current labor agreement provides for periodic increases to a maximum of $67,141 after 5 1/2 years.
#50. To: lucysmom, Capitalist Eric (#45)
As if you were capable of making that judgment.
#51. To: Godwinson (#48)
The current starting salary of a Sanitation Worker is $31,200 per year. The current labor agreement provides for periodic increases to a maximum of $67,141 after 5 1/2 years.
#52. To: CZ82 (#51)
#53. To: Rek (#50)
Since most definitions of a free market seem to hinge on the lack of regulations, government interference or subsidy, again Somalia seems like the most logical country on earth to host such activity.
#54. To: lucysmom, Rek (#53)
In the US, they say taxes are collected at the point of a gun; in Somalia where no one is burdened by government, everything is done at the point of a gun as befitting a free people.
#55. To: Rek (#28)
(Edited)
Garbagemen must be the scum of the earth
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#56. To: Capitalist Eric (#34)
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#57. To: go65 (#44)
to be brutally honest, I think you are giving the parents too much credit.
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#58. To: go65, capitalist eric (#44)
The point here is that parents are as responsible for their kids education as are the schools
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#59. To: jwpegler (#58)
He quickly became frustrated over the fact that most teachers cared more about politics and following their stupid union work rules than they did about the kids. To him, the teacher's mindless selfishness was unbearable. So he quit teaching after one school year
People all over the political spectrum are waking up to what is really going on in the schools. The NEA's era of unrestricted control is finally coming to an end. It's not a moment too soon.
#60. To: jwpegler (#58)
Unfortunately, the unions are all about protecting their monopolies so they won't let someone with a math, science, engineering, or computer science degree into the classroom unless they go back to college to get a worthless teaching degree.
#61. To: go65 (#59)
(Edited)
what do you about those who can't afford to pay for a private education?
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#62. To: lucysmom (#60)
I can tell you from experience that engineers and computer science people are not noted for their communication skills
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#63. To: jwpegler (#61)
You can set up a system of refundable tax credits or vouchers to pay for education.
#64. To: go65 (#63)
tax credits won't help the working poor, and who's going to pay for the vouchers? Certainly you aren't expecting the productive class to have to give up their hard earned money to pay for services for the unproductive class, right?
#65. To: go65 (#63)
tax credits won't help the working poor
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#66. To: go65 (#63)
Certainly you aren't expecting the productive class to have to give up their hard earned money to pay for services for the unproductive class, right?
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#67. To: lucysmom (#64)
One of the things Walker wants to do is hand out more vouchers.
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#68. To: Godwinson (#52)
And the issue is saying a sanitation worker makes $80 grand ayear - which is a lie.
#69. To: Godwinson (#52)
I am independently weatlthy, I made a killing destroying American manufacturing and sending it overseas. Which means I am a Republican hero.
#70. To: jwpegler (#67)
Walker is trying to fix the schools. That's the entire point of stripping unions of their monopoly power over education. Now they can fire bad teachers and implement performance bonuses for good ones.
#71. To: CZ82 (#69)
They seem to think this adds up to more votes for them
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#72. To: lucysmom (#70)
(Edited)
I thought the purpose was balancing the budget
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#73. To: lucysmom (#70)
Wisconsin ranks
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#74. To: jwpegler (#72)
The long term goal is to fix the schools.
#75. To: lucysmom (#74)
You know, we have several very nice bridges here, and I've been given the exclusive contract to sell them...
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#76. To: lucysmom (#70)
Wisconsin ranks 3rd for SAT scores and 13th for ACT scores - in other words, they're doing pretty darn well. Go look and see where conservative Texas ranks.
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