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Title: Is Wisconsin the Real Republican Waterloo?
Source:
Forbes
URL Source: [None]
Published: Mar 10, 2011
Author: E.D. Kain
Post Date: 2011-03-10 13:43:39 by go65
Keywords: None
Views: 52515
Comments: 76
After the Affordable Care Act was passed in 2010, conservative writer David Frum called the passage of the bill the GOP’s “Waterloo” referencing Napoleon Bonaparte’s crushing defeat at the hands of the Duke of Wellington. This earned him the ire of his fellow conservatives and pushed him further outside the conservative movement. But David was wrong. If anything, the healthcare reform victory was the GOP’s Siege of Acre. Wisconsin is shaping up to be the real Waterloo. And not just Wisconsin, but also Indiana, Michigan, Ohio, Arizona, Florida, and the rest of the over- reaching state Republicans. Governors like Scott Walker, Rick Scott, and Jan Brewer are riding on the coattails of the Tea Party, but they’ve become blind to the dangers of their radical policies. In Wisconsin, Democrats are already promising to step-up recall efforts. But the recalls are only a small part of what is likely going to be a huge anti-Republican backlash across the nation, as working Americans finally realize what that party actually stands for: an playing field heavily tilted toward the rich and powerful, toward corporate power, and against worker rights.
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#1. To: All (#0)
Full article: http://blogs.forbes.com/erikkain/2011/03/10/is-wisconsin-the-real-republican- waterloo/
Since January 3, 2011, Republicans have controlled the power of the purse.
Utter nonsense. What we are actually witnessing here is the final death of the 20th century. It isn't just the GOP proposing to make radical change. Look at governor Cuomo in New York. He's beating up on government bureaucrat unions too. He's now also proposing radical tort reform and part of his efforts to reign in healthcare costs. Reactionaries from government bureaucrats to trial lawyers are lashing out. It's not a surprise. The bottom line is that this is all simple math. We can no longer afford to have the unproductive segment of society leach off of the productive segment. We can no longer afford to fund schools and teachers that pump out functional illiterates. We can no longer afford to hand people checks to putter around in Florida in their lime green golf pants for 15 or 20 years. We are in a competitive global economy. This can't work anymore.
So your solution is to under pay teachers who will educate the next generation? Ok, you will come back and say - no you don't to pay for this current crop of teachers. OK, let's say we fire them all and hire MIT geniuses as teachers. You think MIT grads will work for public schools that pay 50 grand a year? So then we will have to raise taxes and pay teachers 100K to 200K a year for the quality you are claiming would justify the increased taxes. I will leave out the part about keeping old people alive and just concentrate on the educational matters. By the way, we can afford all this if we tax the unproductive rich in America. I don't get this rich worship as if the rich somehow earned it and they are responsible for keeping all us lowly serfs from living in dirt.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
My solution is to eliminate the coercive government monopoly and the union rules that favor failed teachers because of seniority so that we can hire some good teachers who will actually teach our kids something.
i wonder if they do a good job like the current teachers (CNSNews.com) - Two-thirds of the eighth graders in Wisconsin public schools cannot read proficiently according to the U.S. Department of Education, despite the fact that Wisconsin spends more per pupil in its public schools than any other state in the Midwest. In the National Assessment of Educational Progress tests administered by the U.S. Department of Education in 2009—the latest year available—only 32 percent of Wisconsin public-school eighth graders earned a “proficient” rating while another 2 percent earned an “advanced” rating. The other 66 percent of Wisconsin public-school eighth graders earned ratings below “proficient,” including 44 percent who earned a rating of “basic” and 22 percent who earned a rating of “below basic.”
"That's our money it's not for your f**king Kids" Various Teacher's Union signs.
So that goes back to the point I made to you earlier, your wife may have a small business, but she isn't as productive as say a stock broker in NYC making $150 million a year. And you certainly aren't as productive as that broker either. Agreed?
Since January 3, 2011, Republicans have controlled the power of the purse.
MIT geniuses make far less than say the CEO of ExxonMobil, which makes them less productive. What Jwpegler really wants is for the productive members of society, those making in the tens or hundreds of millions a year, do educate our students. I'm waiting to hear his plan as to how he's going to make that happen.
Since January 3, 2011, Republicans have controlled the power of the purse.
I'm waiting to hear his plan as to how he's going to make that happen. What are you babbling about? Here's my plan: Supply and Demand in a Competitive Market. Supply and demand does a great job setting the price for computer programmers, all sorts of engineers, lawyers, accountants, and even auto mechanics. Supply and demand will set the right price for teachers as well. It's just that simple.
Yea, because the market is correct in valuing the salary of say, sports stars over say teachers....... You so called conservative types have no clue what to do when you get the helm of the ship other than spout ideological slogans. You don't even want to copy the successful educational models from around the world because maybe a sex ed class would slip in and Americans may become like Scandinavians or something.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
So who should decide how much a sports star earns? You? Obama??? Or the tens of millions of people who decide for themselves to spend their own money to watch a game??? The free market is the ultimate democracy because it requires that people vote with their hard earned money. I don't spend my money going to sports games, buying burgers at McDonalds, and on a whole bunch of other things that many Americans enjoy. But unlike you, I am not angry and resentful of the people who deliver products and services that others like and I don't. I am angry when I am FORCED to pay for things that I don't want and just don't work, like the rotten government monopoly schools.
The free market is the ultimate democracy because it requires that people vote with their hard earned money. A) The free market is not a democracy but if it was our founding fathers had bad things to say about democracy - tyranny of the majority and all that - so if we hold your analogy to be true and the free market is a democracy we need to have checks and balances in place to protect the poor (minority in a democracy) from the tyranny of the rich (majority) and from each other, just like we do in this republic. B) We can correct the stupidity/irrational free market practice of paying athletes or actors or rock stars millions by taxing them higher. Thank you.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
So how do you feel about possibly paying (with your taxes) some of the people on this website to sit at home all day argueing with you??????
"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning
I hate paying for all these retired people on SS who argue against the benefits keeping them alive but what can you do.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
It's called competition.
Capitalism leads to the elimination of competition which is why Republicans like Teddy Roosevelt broke up monopolies so again you have the govt involved as a check and balance.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
So are you saying you have a job?????
"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning
Oh please... Get your face out of your text books and join the real world. Capitalism leads to a dynamic economy where competition expands or narrows in a cycle depending on the circumstances. It does this a market segment at a time (e.g., airlines versus computers could be on very different trajectories simultaneously). Every time competition in a market narrows, something (like a disruptive technology or disruptive business model) comes and blows the market open again. It's a cycle of innovation, imitation, intense competition, drive to efficiency, consolidation... start again. That's how it works. We don't need no stinking government distorting this process.
He changes bedpans at the local nursing home.
When monopolies grow they stifle innovation/competition. It took the breaking apart of the phone monopoly to get cell service to grow, cheap long distance, etc.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
Why would you use that as a slur? I don't do this work but it is a profession I think Jesus would honor if he was on this earth at the moment. Thanks for proving once again that Republicans only show respect to the rich who don't do manual labor and demand that public employees who earn so little be even more distressed.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
I just asked you if you had a job????? I do manual labor for a living so whats the big deal????? Public employees do not make "so little".... at least not where I'm from.... How much do they make where you're from??????
"I love the 45 caliber M1911, I respect the 9MM M9 Beretta but I only carry a CZ for my own personal protection". Quote courtesy of Lt Col John Dean Cooper, recognized as the Father of Modern Handgunning
LOL. AT&T was essentially a government protected monopoly at both the federal and state levels. The telecommunications act of 1934 declared that AT&T was a "public service corporation", subject to both state and federal regulations. In exchange for accepting government over site of pricing, AT&T was generally protected from competition until MCI filed suit decades later. AT&T would have been broken up by market forces much earlier if the government hadn't gotten their sticky fingers all over the market. The same type of people who said for decades that there couldn't be competition in phone services are the ones who tell us today that there can't be any competition in trash collection, fire protection, or education.
They may try to do this, but in the end there is always someone with a better approach that will come knock you down. Look at the computer industry over the last 4 decades. IBM had a near monopoly in mainframe computers. Then DEC came out with the mini-computer and stole a big piece of IBM's market. DEC didn't understand the PC and Microsoft put them out of business. At that point, IBM was on the ropes and decided to reinvent itself as a services company. Now Apple has smartphone and tablets, and Microsoft is struggling to keep up. This is how it works in relatively unregulated markets. Yes, when government steps in a regulates things it screws this process up.
Get of off your high horse. I started pumping gas when I was 13 for $1.60 an hour. When I was 19, I enlisted in the Air Force, living in a roach infested barracks and earning a whopping $400 a month. When I got out of the Air Force, I worked my way through college (Carter eliminated the GI Bill so I got no help whatsoever from the government). I've worked my ass off and I still do. The hardest working people in the country are small business owners, like myself and my wife. Unlike you, I am not resentful that others got to go to an ivy league school. I am unhappy that many of them did it at taxpayer's expense. That has to stop too.
Great - so those who can't afford a good education simply don't get one? Those with special needs kids that can't afford to get them the services they need simply go without? Seriously?
Since January 3, 2011, Republicans have controlled the power of the purse.
They don't get one today. If parents had a choice where to send their kids, most kids would be better off.
So I see you also detest those who do honest work. Garbagemen must be the scum of the earth according to your elitist Republican standards.
"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"
What elitist standards are you referring to? Have you checked out the wages of NYC garbagemen? They are pretty damn elitist in their own sense.
Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??
They are pretty damn elitist in their own sense. Sounds like a reality show ..."The Elitist Garbagemen of NYC/New Jersey".... who knew? Some who change bedpans make big wages too but it's not high enough on the totem pole for that snob, JwPegler.
"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"
They make 80,000 dollars a year, smartass. Which puts them in what the top 25% of wage earners. How much do you advocate raising the taxes of these elitists?
Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??
The free market is the ULTIMATE democracy. The reality is that people ALWAYS vote with their wallet... And this is the basis of economics (another area that you clearly don't know SHIT about)... Economics allows us to predict the behaviors of groups of people, in how they vote with their money, based on preference curves, customer-perceived values, intrinsic value, etc. Another fatal flaw in your thinking! In a truly free market, there is sufficient information to the customer to make rational decisions, consistently. The market becomes UNFREE when government distorts costs, features, customer-perceived and intrinsic values of commodities. In the sports-genre, athletes get high salaries because the franchises have rules that allow them to do so. The NFL franchise is NOT a free market, never has been. It receives tax breaks and subsidies on a regular basis- like free sports-stadiums, for example- that again distort the costs, and make it so that the customer cannot possibly make rational decisions. The entertainment industry is more of a free market than sports franchises- though I haven't enough information about that industry to make a side-by-side comparison of sweetheart deals, tax breaks, revenues, etc. Your "tyranny of the rich" is another government-created monster... when pols and business leaders get into bed together, competition is stifled or eliminated, and the "rich get richer." WHO could be doing this today, getting into bed with big business, you ask? No other than your feckless shitbag leader, bullcrap hussein obongo. One need only look at the "waivers" given for health care, to see that the whole thing is a complete shake-down... "Pay up" to obongo, and you'll get a waiver. Don't pay up, and we'll regulate your company out of existence. Face it, gobsheit... You THINK you think. But the truth is, you'd rather die than think.
Socialist ass-hats think "There will be no more money when the U.S. dollar has no value, until that time we can keep printing more." And yes, that IS from LF's answer to Ben Bernanke, go65, leading disfunctional and delusional socialist of the forum. "You want me to kill THE ENEMIES of Jappos, I'll kill THE ENEMIES of Jappos, Rebs, or Sioux, or Cheyenne... For 500 bucks a month I'll kill whoever you want. But keep one thing in mind: I'd happily kill you for free." Algren, "The Last Samurai" It's that beloved supply and demand that the prissy Free Traders love to throw around,. But unlike most free traders they actually provide a vital service. I bet you couldn't keep up with the average NYC garbageman for 2 hours much less eight. I saw the routine on Dirtiest Jobs, with Mike Rowe trying to keep up with one of the guys.... walking up flights of stairs and taking down huge sacks of garbage. He was exhausted after an hour. And they do this night after night.
"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"
Ping to #32.
Socialist ass-hats think "There will be no more money when the U.S. dollar has no value, until that time we can keep printing more." And yes, that IS from LF's answer to Ben Bernanke, go65, leading disfunctional and delusional socialist of the forum. "You want me to kill THE ENEMIES of Jappos, I'll kill THE ENEMIES of Jappos, Rebs, or Sioux, or Cheyenne... For 500 bucks a month I'll kill whoever you want. But keep one thing in mind: I'd happily kill you for free." Algren, "The Last Samurai" There is not and never was any such thing as a "Free Market". It's just another religious figment thrown around by your high priests for the rubes to gnaw on and stay out of trouble.
"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"
We did, until 1913. Now, STFU.
Socialist ass-hats think "There will be no more money when the U.S. dollar has no value, until that time we can keep printing more." And yes, that IS from LF's answer to Ben Bernanke, go65, leading disfunctional and delusional socialist of the forum. "You want me to kill THE ENEMIES of Jappos, I'll kill THE ENEMIES of Jappos, Rebs, or Sioux, or Cheyenne... For 500 bucks a month I'll kill whoever you want. But keep one thing in mind: I'd happily kill you for free." Algren, "The Last Samurai" So what's your problem? You couldn't keep up with me with what i do.
Now, I know I’m not going to change the minds of any of the True Believers…those who read all of Reverend Al’s sermons, and say things like, “You know, global warming can mean warmer OR colder, wetter OR drier, cloudier OR sunnier, windier OR calmer, …”. Can I get an ‘amen’??
Now, STFU. BS...... markets in the US have been historically managed in one form or another since this country's inception. What do you think the CW or the RW were all about.
"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"
You couldn't keep up with me with what i do. But unlike you garbagemen provide a vital service.
"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"
I think He would too. It takes a special kind of person to be a caregiver; it requires patience, creativity, and is just plain hard work.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
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#2. To: go65 (#0)
(Edited)
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#3. To: jwpegler, go65 (#2)
The bottom like is that this is all simple math. We can no longer afford to have the unproductive segment of society leach off of the productive segment. We can no longer afford to fund schools and teachers that pump out functional illiterates. We can no longer afford to hand people checks to putter around in Florida in their lime green golf pants for 15 or 20 years.
#4. To: Godwinson (#3)
(Edited)
So your solution is to under pay teachers who will educate the next generation?
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#5. To: Godwinson (#3)
(Edited)
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#6. To: Godwinson (#3)
So your solution is to under pay teachers who will educate the next generation?
#7. To: jwpegler (#2)
The bottom line is that this is all simple math. We can no longer afford to have the unproductive segment of society leach off of the productive segment.
#8. To: Godwinson, jwpegler (#3)
Ok, you will come back and say - no you don't to pay for this current crop of teachers. OK, let's say we fire them all and hire MIT geniuses as teachers. You think MIT grads will work for public schools that pay 50 grand a year? So then we will have to raise taxes and pay teachers 100K to 200K a year for the quality you are claiming would justify the increased taxes.
#9. To: go65 (#8)
(Edited)
What Jwpegler really wants is for the productive members of society, those making in the tens or hundreds of millions a year, do educate our students.
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#10. To: jwpegler, go65 (#9)
Supply and demand will set the right price for teachers as well.
#11. To: Godwinson, capitalist eric (#10)
(Edited)
Yea, because the market is correct in valuing the salary of say, sports stars over say teachers.......
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#12. To: jwpegler, capitalist eric, go65 (#11)
(Edited)
So who should decide how much a sports star earns? You? Obama??? Or the tens of millions of people who decide for themselves to spend their own money to watch a game???
#13. To: jwpegler (#11)
I am angry when I am FORCED to pay for things that I don't want and just don't work, like the rotten government monopoly schools.
#14. To: CZ82 (#13)
So how do you feel about possibly paying (with your taxes) some of the people on this website to sit at home all day argueing with you??????
#15. To: Godwinson (#12)
if the free market is a democracy we need to have checks and balances in place
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#16. To: jwpegler (#15)
It's called competition.
#17. To: Godwinson (#14)
I hate paying for all these retired people on SS who argue against the benefits keeping them alive but what can you do.
#18. To: Godwinson (#16)
(Edited)
Capitalism leads to the elimination of competition
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#19. To: CZ82 (#17)
So are you saying you have a job?????
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#20. To: jwpegler (#18)
It's a cycle of innovation, imitation, intense competition, drive to efficiency, consolidation... start again. That's how it works.
#21. To: jwpegler, CZ82, go65, lucysmom (#19)
(Edited)
He changes bedpans at the local nursing home.
#22. To: Godwinson (#21)
Thanks for proving once again that Republicans only show respect to the rich who don't do manual labor and demand that public employees who earn so little be even more distressed.
#23. To: Godwinson (#20)
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#24. To: Godwinson (#20)
(Edited)
When monopolies grow they stifle innovation/competition.
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#25. To: Godwinson (#21)
(Edited)
Thanks for proving once again that Republicans only show respect to the rich who don't do manual labor
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#26. To: jwpegler (#9)
Here's my plan: Supply and Demand in a Competitive Market.
#27. To: go65 (#26)
so those who can't afford a good education simply don't get one?
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#28. To: jwpegler (#19)
He changes bedpans at the local nursing home.
#29. To: Rek (#28)
Garbagemen must be the scum of the earth according to your elitist Republican standards.
#30. To: no gnu taxes, jwpegler (#29)
(Edited)
What elitist standards are you referring to? Have you checked out the wages of NYC garbagemen?
#31. To: Rek (#30)
Sounds like a reality show ..."The Elitist Garbagemen of NYC/New Jersey".
#32. To: Godwinson (#12)
A) The free market is not a democracy...
B) We can correct the stupidity/irrational free market practice of paying athletes or actors or rock stars millions by taxing them higher.
#33. To: no gnu taxes (#31)
They make 80,000 dollars a year, smartass. Which puts them in what the top 25% of wage earners. How much do you advocate raising the taxes of these elitists?
#34. To: jwpegler (#27)
#35. To: Capitalist Eric (#32)
The free market is the ULTIMATE democracy. The reality is that people ALWAYS vote with their wallet... And this is the basis of economics (another area that you clearly don't know SHIT about)... Economics allows us to predict the behaviors of groups of people, in how they vote with their money, based on preference curves, customer-perceived values, intrinsic value, etc.
#36. To: Rek (#35)
There is not and never was any such thing as a "Free Market".
#37. To: Rek (#33)
It's that beloved supply and demand
#38. To: Capitalist Eric (#36)
(Edited)
We did, until 1913.
#39. To: no gnu taxes (#37)
So what's your problem?
#40. To: Godwinson, jwpegler, CZ82, go65 (#21)
Why would you use that as a slur? I don't do this work but it is a profession I think Jesus would honor if he was on this earth at the moment.
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