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Title: America Is Not Broke
Source:
huffingtonpost.com
URL Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/micha ... ica-is-not-broke_b_832006.html
Published: Mar 6, 2011
Author: Michael Moore
Post Date: 2011-03-07 10:29:22 by Godwinson
Keywords: None
Views: 65447
Comments: 81
Michael Moore America Is Not Broke Speech delivered at Wisconsin Capitol in Madison, March 5, 2011 America is not broke. Contrary to what those in power would like you to believe so that you'll give up your pension, cut your wages, and settle for the life your great-grandparents had, America is not broke. Not by a long shot. The country is awash in wealth and cash. It's just that it's not in your hands. It has been transferred, in the greatest heist in history, from the workers and consumers to the banks and the portfolios of the uber-rich. Today just 400 Americans have more wealth than half of all Americans combined. Let me say that again. 400 obscenely rich people, most of whom benefited in some way from the multi- trillion dollar taxpayer "bailout" of 2008, now have more loot, stock and property than the assets of 155 million Americans combined. If you can't bring yourself to call that a financial coup d'état, then you are simply not being honest about what you know in your heart to be true. And I can see why. For us to admit that we have let a small group of men abscond with and hoard the bulk of the wealth that runs our economy, would mean that we'd have to accept the humiliating acknowledgment that we have indeed surrendered our precious Democracy to the moneyed elite. Wall Street, the banks and the Fortune 500 now run this Republic -- and, until this past month, the rest of us have felt completely helpless, unable to find a way to do anything about it. I have nothing more than a high school degree. But back when I was in school, every student had to take one semester of economics in order to graduate. And here's what I learned: Money doesn't grow on trees. It grows when we make things. It grows when we have good jobs with good wages that we use to buy the things we need and thus create more jobs. It grows when we provide an outstanding educational system that then grows a new generation of inventers, entrepreneurs, artists, scientists and thinkers who come up with the next great idea for the planet. And that new idea creates new jobs and that creates revenue for the state. But if those who have the most money don't pay their fair share of taxes, the state can't function. The schools can't produce the best and the brightest who will go on to create those jobs. If the wealthy get to keep most of their money, we have seen what they will do with it: recklessly gamble it on crazy Wall Street schemes and crash our economy. The crash they created cost us millions of jobs. That too caused a reduction in revenue. And the population ended up suffering because they reduced their taxes, reduced our jobs and took wealth out of the system, removing it from circulation. The nation is not broke, my friends. Wisconsin is not broke. It's part of the Big Lie. It's one of the three biggest lies of the decade: America/Wisconsin is broke, Iraq has WMD, the Packers can't win the Super Bowl without Brett Favre. The truth is, there's lots of money to go around. LOTS. It's just that those in charge have diverted that wealth into a deep well that sits on their well-guarded estates. They know they have committed crimes to make this happen and they know that someday you may want to see some of that money that used to be yours. So they have bought and paid for hundreds of politicians across the country to do their bidding for them. But just in case that doesn't work, they've got their gated communities, and the luxury jet is always fully fueled, the engines running, waiting for that day they hope never comes. To help prevent that day when the people demand their country back, the wealthy have done two very smart things: 1. They control the message. By owning most of the media they have expertly convinced many Americans of few means to buy their version of the American Dream and to vote for their politicians. Their version of the Dream says that you, too, might be rich some day – this is America, where anything can happen if you just apply yourself! They have conveniently provided you with believable examples to show you how a poor boy can become a rich man, how the child of a single mother in Hawaii can become president, how a guy with a high school education can become a successful filmmaker. They will play these stories for you over and over again all day long so that the last thing you will want to do is upset the apple cart -- because you -- yes, you, too! -- might be rich/president/an Oscar-winner some day! The message is clear: keep your head down, your nose to the grindstone, don't rock the boat and be sure to vote for the party that protects the rich man that you might be some day. 2. They have created a poison pill that they know you will never want to take. It is their version of mutually assured destruction. And when they threatened to release this weapon of mass economic annihilation in September of 2008, we blinked. As the economy and the stock market went into a tailspin, and the banks were caught conducting a worldwide Ponzi scheme, Wall Street issued this threat: Either hand over trillions of dollars from the American taxpayers or we will crash this economy straight into the ground. Fork it over or it's Goodbye savings accounts. Goodbye pensions. Goodbye United States Treasury. Goodbye jobs and homes and future. It was friggin' awesome and it scared the shit out of everyone. "Here! Take our money! We don't care. We'll even print more for you! Just take it! But, please, leave our lives alone, PLEASE!" The executives in the board rooms and hedge funds could not contain their laughter, their glee, and within three months they were writing each other huge bonus checks and marveling at how perfectly they had played a nation full of suckers. Millions lost their jobs anyway, and millions lost their homes. But there was no revolt (see #1). Until now. On Wisconsin! Never has a Michigander been more happy to share a big, great lake with you! You have aroused the sleeping giant know as the working people of the United States of America. Right now the earth is shaking and the ground is shifting under the feet of those who are in charge. Your message has inspired people in all 50 states and that message is: WE HAVE HAD IT! We reject anyone tells us America is broke and broken. It's just the opposite! We are rich with talent and ideas and hard work and, yes, love. Love and compassion toward those who have, through no fault of their own, ended up as the least among us. But they still crave what we all crave: Our country back! Our democracy back! Our good name back! The United States of America. NOT the Corporate States of America. The United States of America! So how do we get this? Well, we do it with a little bit of Egypt here, a little bit of Madison there. And let us pause for a moment and remember that it was a poor man with a fruit stand in Tunisia who gave his life so that the world might focus its attention on how a government run by billionaires for billionaires is an affront to freedom and morality and humanity. Thank you, Wisconsin. You have made people realize this was our last best chance to grab the final thread of what was left of who we are as Americans. For three weeks you have stood in the cold, slept on the floor, skipped out of town to Illinois -- whatever it took, you have done it, and one thing is for certain: Madison is only the beginning. The smug rich have overplayed their hand. They couldn't have just been content with the money they raided from the treasury. They couldn't be satiated by simply removing millions of jobs and shipping them overseas to exploit the poor elsewhere. No, they had to have more – something more than all the riches in the world. They had to have our soul. They had to strip us of our dignity. They had to shut us up and shut us down so that we could not even sit at a table with them and bargain about simple things like classroom size or bulletproof vests for everyone on the police force or letting a pilot just get a few extra hours sleep so he or she can do their job -- their $19,000 a year job. That's how much some rookie pilots on commuter airlines make, maybe even the rookie pilots flying people here to Madison. But he's stopped trying to get better pay. All he asks is that he doesn't have to sleep in his car between shifts at O'Hare airport. That's how despicably low we have sunk. The wealthy couldn't be content with just paying this man $19,000 a year. They wanted to take away his sleep. They wanted to demean and dehumanize him. After all, he's just another slob. And that, my friends, is Corporate America's fatal mistake. But trying to destroy us they have given birth to a movement -- a movement that is becoming a massive, nonviolent revolt across the country. We all knew there had to be a breaking point some day, and that point is upon us. Many people in the media don't understand this. They say they were caught off guard about Egypt, never saw it coming. Now they act surprised and flummoxed about why so many hundreds of thousands have come to Madison over the last three weeks during brutal winter weather. "Why are they all standing out there in the cold? I mean there was that election in November and that was supposed to be that! "There's something happening here, and you don't know what it is, do you...?" America ain't broke! The only thing that's broke is the moral compass of the rulers. And we aim to fix that compass and steer the ship ourselves from now on. Never forget, as long as that Constitution of ours still stands, it's one person, one vote, and it's the thing the rich hate most about America -- because even though they seem to hold all the money and all the cards, they begrudgingly know this one unshakeable basic fact: There are more of us than there are of them! Madison, do not retreat. We are with you. We will win together.
Oscar and Emmy-winning director
Posted: March 6, 2011 02:53 PM
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#1. To: Godwinson (#0)
(Edited)
Yeah ri-i--i-i-i-ght, and neither is your Mooreronic mind.
The Rich lied to America. We want our jobs and money back.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
Michael Moore lecturing on econonics is like the (late) Ted Kennedy advocating for safe driving. Or sobriety. Or abstinence. In other words, it's perfectly logical (in a statist "laws are for thee and not me" sort of way)
_____________________________________________________________________________________________ Woman at a dinner party, speaking to Calvin Coolidge - "I bet someone that I could make you say more than 3 words" Moore is a self made millionaire and thus is more qualified to speak on the matter of money matters than say a George W Bush who was born into money.....
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
If you'll gather 'round me, children, It was in the town of Shawnee, There a deputy sheriff approached him Pretty Boy grabbed a log chain, Then he took to the trees and timber But a many a starving farmer Others tell you 'bout a stranger It was in Oklahoma City, Well, you say that I'm an outlaw, Yes, as through this world I've wandered And as through your life you travel, You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
Yessirreee! Michael Moore can be quite the capitalist when he needs to be.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________ Woman at a dinner party, speaking to Calvin Coolidge - "I bet someone that I could make you say more than 3 words" You don't think this is true? The truth is, there's lots of money to go around. LOTS. It's just that those in charge have diverted that wealth into a deep well that sits on their well-guarded estates. They know they have committed crimes to make this happen and they know that someday you may want to see some of that money that used to be yours. So they have bought and paid for hundreds of politicians across the country to do their bidding for them.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
Wow, Lucy! Good to see you're coming around (finally!) _____________________________________________________________________________________________ Woman at a dinner party, speaking to Calvin Coolidge - "I bet someone that I could make you say more than 3 words" It's certainly true for Mr. Moore: _____________________________________________________________________________________________ Woman at a dinner party, speaking to Calvin Coolidge - "I bet someone that I could make you say more than 3 words" Winston was more liberal at 40 than I am in old age. When the Tories returned to power in 1951, "Churchill chose a Government which was the least recognizably Conservative in history."[164] There was no attempt to roll back the welfare state, and the only industry that was really reprivatized was road haulage.[165] Churchill "left the core of its [the Labour government's] work inviolate."[166] The "Conservative" victory functioned like Republican victories in the United States, from Eisenhower on — to consolidate socialism. Churchill even undertook to make up for "deficiencies" in the welfare programs of the previous Labour government, in housing and public works.[167] Most insidiously of all, he directed his leftist Labour Minister, Walter Monckton, to appease the unions at all costs. Churchill's surrender to the unions, "dictated by sheer political expediency," set the stage for the quagmire in labor relations that prevailed in Britain for the next two decades.[168] http://mises.org/daily/2973
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
I don't know, do you? How do you think what Moore contributes to Democrats stacks up to what Koch contributes to Republicans?
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
Most slaves liked their masters.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
The USSR had better wealth control ratios.... How is it that we do everything the opposite economically of what the USSR did and end up with almost the same results of a minority with more control over wealth than the majority. This is crony capitalism in the USA not true capitalism.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
The elitists.... --committed crimes to make this happen and they know that someday you may want to see some of that money that used to be yours. --have bought and paid for hundreds of politicians across the country to do their bidding for them. --control the message... to buy their version of the American Dream and to vote for their politicians. --have conveniently provided you with believable examples to show you how a poor boy can become a rich man, --play these stories for you over and over again all day long so that the last thing you will want to do is upset the apple cart -- because you -- yes, you, too! -- might be rich/president/an Oscar-winner some day! --created a poison pill that they know you will never want to take. It is their version of mutually assured destruction. --threatened to release this weapon of mass economic annihilation in September of 2008, we blinked. As the economy and the stock market went into a tailspin, and the banks were caught conducting a worldwide Ponzi scheme, Wall Street issued this threat: Either hand over trillions of dollars from the American taxpayers or we will crash this economy straight into the ground. Fork it over or it's Goodbye savings accounts. Goodbye pensions. Goodbye United States Treasury. Goodbye jobs and homes and future. It was friggin' awesome and it scared the shit out of everyone. "Here! Take our money! We don't care. We'll even print more for you! Just take it! But, please, leave our lives alone, PLEASE!" HOLY SHIT... I think Michael Moore is one of the lousiest gas-bags in contemporary society, but he nailed it with this synopsis. WELL DONE! Too bad he linked it to the idiot union parasites in Wisconsin. Ah, well... even a blind squirrel occasionally finds a nut.
Socialist ass-hats think "There will be no more money when the U.S. dollar has no value, until that time we can keep printing more." And yes, that IS from LF's answer to Ben Bernanke, go65, leading disfunctional and delusional socialist of the forum. "You want me to kill THE ENEMIES of Jappos, I'll kill THE ENEMIES of Jappos, Rebs, or Sioux, or Cheyenne... For 500 bucks a month I'll kill whoever you want. But keep one thing in mind: I'd happily kill you for free." Algren, "The Last Samurai" But I will say this - whatever it is, it has less effect on me than Moore's contributions to statist democrats. I know it's hard for you to get past the two-party paradigm, but do try. Open your mind. I disagree with democrats probably 99.9 percent of the time. I disagree with (elected) republicans probably about 90 percent of the time. Does that make me a republican in your little world?
_____________________________________________________________________________________________ Woman at a dinner party, speaking to Calvin Coolidge - "I bet someone that I could make you say more than 3 words" STOCKHOLM SYNDROME: the psychological tendency of a hostage to bond with, identify with, or sympathize with his or her captor
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
You're the collectivist, not me. You LOVE authoritarians, so I guess you're speaking of yourself
_____________________________________________________________________________________________ Woman at a dinner party, speaking to Calvin Coolidge - "I bet someone that I could make you say more than 3 words" STOCKHOLM SYNDROME: the psychological tendency of a hostage to bond with, identify with, or sympathize with his or her captor You're the collectivist, not me. You LOVE authoritarians, so I guess you're speaking of yourself
_____________________________________________________________________________________________ Woman at a dinner party, speaking to Calvin Coolidge - "I bet someone that I could make you say more than 3 words" "Cause there will always be people who bend the rules to their own advantage. We need unions to push back and keep the "capitalists" honest.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
The only collectivists in America are the 400 people who collected the wealth of most of Americans.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
Does that make me a republican in your little world? Makes you more Republican than Democrat. Unfortunately our system doesn't seem to foster multiple parties. I think we'd be better off if it did.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
You have internalized the values of your masters - complete identification.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
You LOVE authoritarians, so I guess you're speaking of yourself Only in your black and white world.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
LOL! Good one.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
I am making up a new term. I am an ecclesiastic which is the form of community both the Athenian democrats and Jesus Christ advocated. An ecclesia means an assembly, thus I am an assemblist. But then why come up with a new term? When our Founding Fathers were just fine with the idea of being a "commonwealth". I am for the commonwealth aka old English for community wealth aka the common ground aka the commons.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
You're the collectivist, not me. The only collectivists in America are the 400 people who collected the wealth of most of Americans. I'm not playing this stupid game. If you're going to debate, you're going to have to use terms as they are generally understood. Read this, digest it (if you can), and then get back to me.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________ Project much?
_____________________________________________________________________________________________ I guess you do.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________ I am making up a new term. I am an ecclesiastic which is the form of community both the Athenian democrats and Jesus Christ advocated. An ecclesia means an assembly, thus I am an assemblist. But then why come up with a new term? When our Founding Fathers were just fine with the idea of being a "commonwealth". I am for the commonwealth aka old English for community wealth aka the common ground aka the commons. The English noun commonwealth in the sense meaning "public welfare; general good or advantage".
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
An economy that concentrates wealth in such small quantities like this not a properly working economy. It is an economic model no American alive today has ever seen. Ignore Amos (apt) this economic model you advocate for is a new model. You act like you are defending the traditional American model but its a new development.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
The Oil companies have got their trolls out in force, trying to massage public opinion as the prices go up and up. And they know how the tea bagger mind works and are hoping it catches on.
"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"
You sent me to website extolling that bitch, Ayn Rand. Ayn Rand found early inspiration in 1920's murderer William Hickman. What did Rand admire so much about Hickman? His sociopathic qualities: "Other people do not exist for him, and he does not see why they should," she wrote, gushing that Hickman had "no regard whatsoever for all that society holds sacred, and with a consciousness all his own. He has the true, innate psychology of a Superman. He can never realize and feel 'other people.'"This echoes almost word for word Rand's later description of her character Howard Roark, the hero of her novel The Fountainhead: "He was born without the ability to consider others."
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
Which is the quality most F-500 CEOs and sociopathic inmates share.
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The opposition can be the dissemblerist party. The commons gave a man a place to fish once he learned how.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
It's does have some US tradition in that it's the Robber Baron model.
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No one alive today remember that era. My point is they act as if they are defending the American way but the economic system we are seeing now is something new to all of us. Not one person here has ever seen our economy (dis)function like this before.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
In other words, define the economic world according to the masters will.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
There is a somewhat well documented tradition of their Robber Baron economic model ravaging this country though. These guys aren't smart enough to make this up all by themselves.
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What we are seeing in the wealth disparity is a modern version I think of the enclosure acts on the public commons. In England the rich landowners used their control of state processes to appropriate public land for their private benefit. This created a landless working class that provided the labour required in the new industries developing in the north of England. For example: "In agriculture the years between 1760 and 1820 are the years of wholesale enclosure in which, in village after village, common rights are lost". "Enclosure (when all the sophistications are allowed for) was a plain enough case of class robbery". "Stop to consider how the so-called owners of the land got hold of it. They simply seized it by force, afterwards hiring lawyers to provide them with title-deeds. In the case of the enclosure of the common lands, which was going on from about 1600 to 1850, the land-grabbers did not even have the excuse of being foreign conquerors; they were quite frankly taking the heritage of their own countrymen, upon no sort of pretext except that they had the power to do so. – George Orwell."
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
In fact, its a model the founding fathers wished to avoid.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
If you're going to debate, you're going to have to use terms as they are generally understood. In other words, define the economic world according to the masters will. Some posters just seem to exude power and entitlement.
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have you heard the one about the CEO, union member and tea party activist at a cocktail party? The host brings by a tray of a dozen cookies. The CEO takes 11, then looks at the tea party activist and says "Watch that union guy, he wants your cookie."
Since January 3, 2011, Republicans have controlled the power of the purse.
When Athenian aristocrats created democracy they gave up their wealth and lands to redistribute to fellow citizens because they knew that a population that was too poor would find no time to take part in the events of the day nor care to defend the nation.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
It's funny 'cause it's true.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
Isn't that the definition of a psychopath? The ability to feel empathy is the foundation of morality.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
If so, what happened to them? Why did they fail? I'm not "advocating" or "defending" anything - I'm just observing. Quite frankly, the USA (like all emprires that have preceeded it) is in it's death throes, and it's anyone's guess as to what will replace it. Depending on what next crisis hits - probably one that will cause the grid to fail - we're about to find out.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________ Ignore Amos advocates unconstitution control of the government by commercial entities created and given license by that same government not by God.
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The age "Conservatives" long to return to.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
Quit parsing, you are not at the Rush Limbaugh Institute for Advanced "Conservative" Studies...... everyone here can read.
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Aristotle predated the Romans and he wrote about the various models found in Greece and the major theme of the most successful city states was that they provided a means to redistribute wealth. One example if I recall was an island nation of Greeks that every 30 years re-divided the lots. The Old Testament Bible has a similar example in the Jubilee. Also, the eastern Roman empire aka Byzantines outlasted the western Romans because they carried out a large redistribution of land wealth. The land owning peasants made the back bone of the eastern Roman empire and they lasted for a 1,100 years. They collapsed because wealth began to be concentrated to fewer and fewer hands thus weakening the empire.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
Good job! Glad to see that "short bus" education has worked out so well for you.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________ Perhaps you're too young to have experienced one of Jimmi Carter's fireside chats? Turn down the thermostat, return to the stone age.
I recall a re-run of MASH I saw where this uber right winger named Colonel Flagg... Now we're getting somewhere! Question: how can imperfect humans create a perfect government (at least, one in which wealth is more evenly distributed) Answer: They can't. Thus - that is why ALL forms of government rise and fall. Thus it is, and thus it will ever be. (At least until we enter the Heavenly realm. And then we won't care.)
_____________________________________________________________________________________________ Glad to see that "short bus" education has worked out so well for you. First name caller in loses. Oh, I forgot you already quit because no one would let you change the terms of the debate.
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Nope. First one that insinuates to posters that Faux News (hahahah that's so funny), Rush Limbaugh, Sarah Palin or Hitler does their thinking for them loses. Now, get back on that short bus with Lucy. Apparently there's much more work to do.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________ One way or another you can't seem to resist asserting the role of the dictator. You are a class act.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
Good breeding always shows, doesn't it?
_____________________________________________________________________________________________ Now, get back on that short bus with Lucy. Apparently there's much more work to do. While you are showing your Limbaugh bonafides, the discussion has advanced to comparing the nearest equivalent of the Robber Baron economic model to that used by Mexico. It already has concentrated it's wealth quite nicely into a few families, and I supposed you think when it is copied here you will be immune from the effects and not become similiar to those poor peons displaced by their own country.
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An economy in its death throes (as ours is) has many possible outcomes. Since I don't have access to billions of dollars worth of gold, nor am I a privledged government official (Congressman, Senator, SCOTUS Justice or President), nor am I a high military official, I will likely suffer just as you, Lucysmom, Godwinson or anyone else. Best to just enjoy the ride, 'cuz there ain't nothing us "peons" can do about it.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________ They have also managed to shift a large portion of the tax burden to those who can least afford it.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
An econony in its death throes (as ours is) has many possible outcomes. If this is what you consider to be 'in it's death throes' then we evidently have dug ourselves out of it many, many times in the past.
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I dis agree with that.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
Many of the rich here have helped create a tax code where they can cost out all or most of their tax burden and place it back on the shoulders of the consumer. Sounds like socialism to me ....and following the Mexican model.
"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"
I like the part where Mexico (alias the oligarchs) own 25 miles inland from the nearest coastline to insure their ownership of the tourist trade. I can see where that eminent domain clause that the US SCOTUS upheld a few years back might eventually come in real handy.
"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"
_____________________________________________________________________________________________ Somehow . . . I'm comforted by those words.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________ You mean when there was a more even distribution of wealth? aka the good years.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
That explains it - Ignore Amos is a nihilist and wants to see the system collapse under its own inequity rather than offer any solution to fix it as a patriot would. Deep down inside I think most so called conservatives are like that - they want to destroy the system because they know it failed and they know they advocated an ideology that failed but can't face up to it.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
Seriously, I'm a realist. Look, whatever political systems come and go - life goes on. This political system of ours came, and now it's going. It's lasted over 200 years - pretty good, actually. The Founders, though not perfect, DID give us a pretty good form of gov't. It's taken us this long to FUBAR it. From you're postings (except for your tagline which takes the Lord's name in vain) you appear to be a Christian. Catholic, I assume. If I'm correct in that assumption, then you too believe a better world is coming. I just don't happen to beleve it will come through any political system man devises. His lust for power and greed ALWAYS supersede any good intentions. _____________________________________________________________________________________________ It is very clear you don't want to change anything for the better.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
It's too bad if you've honestly come to that conclusion about me. I like to think that I'm a better writer than that. I'll console myself and say that perhaps the problem lies with the reader . . . In any event, let me try this one more time: I believe in limited government. I believe in individual rights. I believe that the US should stay the hell out of most of the foreign conflicts we find ourselves in. I disagreed with Bush and the republicans when they were driving us toward the cliff at 100 mph. I disagree with Obama and the democrats when they are driving us toward the cliff at 200mph What more can I say? Disagree with me if you must. Disagreement is good - perhaps we can all learn something. But don't impugn my motives. Cause in the end, you really don't know me, or much about me.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________ We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________ It provides guidance for what the taxes should be spent on.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
The top 1% income earners earn 20% of the income in the U.S. They pay 40% of the taxes. In fact, the top 1% now pay more taxes than the bottom 95% combined. These are called FACTS. Oh, I forgot you already quit because no one would let you change the terms of the debate. A debate is only meaninful when those who debate, agree on the linguistic terms. Leftists constantly attempt to twist the meaning of words, such that meaningful debate is impossible. The leftists seem to think that by making debate impossible using commonly understood terms, that they have somehow "won" the debate. Nothing could be farther from the truth. When you must resort to such transparent tactics, and intentionally pull the thread off-topic, you automatically lose the debate. Of course, when you have lost, you then attempt to re-define being a loser into being a winner, and so the leftist losing trend continues. The Saul Alinsky book "Rules for Radicals," says to accuse your opponent of what it is that YOU do... And like a good little leftist, you then accuse Ignore Amos of doing what made you lose the debate. Such simpleton tactics may work on other simpletons... But leftist ideology depends on intellectual laziness. When you work to find the truth, you are inevitably pulled to the conservative viewpoint. Those who are life-long leftists, are life-long mental couch-potatos. "Winning."
Socialist ass-hats think "There will be no more money when the U.S. dollar has no value, until that time we can keep printing more." And yes, that IS from LF's answer to Ben Bernanke, go65, leading disfunctional and delusional socialist of the forum. "You want me to kill THE ENEMIES of Jappos, I'll kill THE ENEMIES of Jappos, Rebs, or Sioux, or Cheyenne... For 500 bucks a month I'll kill whoever you want. But keep one thing in mind: I'd happily kill you for free." Algren, "The Last Samurai" Well said. Bravo!
_____________________________________________________________________________________________ If a garden is neglected, is the garden a failure when it is overgrown with weeds? The founding fathers never claimed to have given us a form of government that was self perpetuating and didn't require maintenance. If I'm correct in that assumption, then you too believe a better world is coming. I just don't happen to beleve it will come through any political system man devises. His lust for power and greed ALWAYS supersede any good intentions. I prefer the Quaker belief that there is God in each of us and that our job on earth is to recognize the indwelling God and nurture it - in all human beings.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
If income were more evenly distributed, we could fix that. Oddly enough, the 1% would rather pay a disproportionate (as to numbers, not dollars) share of taxes than share the wealth. They are working on having their cake and eating it too. Their success depends on how long it takes Republicans to catch on.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
The FF's knew that "they did not know" everything. To that end, they were wise enough to create an amendment process. A process sufficiently difficult enough to prevent fads or whims from making into the Constitution, but do-able, regardless. . . IF there was enough consensus. Even given that - mistakes were made. Prohibition, for instance. But by the same amendment process, it was repealed. What the FFs didnt' forsee was the Supreme Court being able to de-facto amend the Constitution. That's contributed to our downfall. But like I said earlier, they were still very wise men to have crafted a society that's lasted this long. All things, as they say, must come to an end. I prefer the Quaker belief that there is God in each of us and that our job on earth is to recognize the indwelling God and nurture it - in all human beings. I was raised a fundamentalist Christian, and I am a Christian to this day. I've often thought that as adults - if we are religious at all - we tend to go with the religion with which we were raised. But I've never studied it enough to see if that's true.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________ No, its not like that at all.
You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand
America is not broke.
#2. To: Happy Quanzaa (#1)
#3. To: Godwinson (#0)
"If you're 20 and not a liberal, you have no heart. It you're 40 and not a conservative, you have no brain."
~Winston Churchill
Calvin Coolidge, responding to woman - "You lose"
#4. To: Ignore Amos (#3)
Michael Moore lecturing on econonics is like the (late) Ted Kennedy advocating for safe driving.
#5. To: Godwinson (#0)
A story I will tell
'Bout Pretty Boy Floyd, an outlaw,
Oklahoma knew him well.
A Saturday afternoon,
His wife beside him in his wagon
As into town they rode.
In a manner rather rude,
Vulgar words of anger,
An' his wife she overheard.
And the deputy grabbed his gun;
In the fight that followed
He laid that deputy down.
To live a life of shame;
Every crime in Oklahoma
Was added to his name.
The same old story told
How the outlaw paid their mortgage
And saved their little homes.
That come to beg a meal,
Underneath his napkin
Left a thousand dollar bill.
It was on a Christmas Day,
There was a whole car load of groceries
Come with a note to say:
You say that I'm a thief.
Here's a Christmas dinner
For the families on relief.
I've seen lots of funny men;
Some will rob you with a six-gun,
And some with a fountain pen.
Yes, as through your life you roam,
You won't never see an outlaw
Drive a family from their home.
#6. To: Godwinson (#4)
Moore is a self made millionaire
"If you're 20 and not a liberal, you have no heart. It you're 40 and not a conservative, you have no brain."
~Winston Churchill
Calvin Coolidge, responding to woman - "You lose"
#7. To: Ignore Amos (#3)
Michael Moore lecturing on econonics is like the (late) Ted Kennedy advocating for safe driving.
#8. To: lucysmom (#5)
Some will rob you with a six-gun,
And some with a fountain pen. 
"If you're 20 and not a liberal, you have no heart. It you're 40 and not a conservative, you have no brain."
~Winston Churchill
Calvin Coolidge, responding to woman - "You lose"
#9. To: lucysmom (#7)
You don't think this is true?
The truth is, there's lots of money to go around. LOTS. It's just that those in charge have diverted that wealth into a deep well that sits on their well-guarded estates.
True for Moore They know they have committed crimes to make this happen
Like rigged interviews and bogus "facts" in his faux-documentaries and they know that someday you may want to see some of that money that used to be yours.
Not really. Unlike hypocrite Moore, I'm not full of resentment and class-envy. So they have bought and paid for hundreds of politicians across the country to do their bidding for them.
Just how much DOES Moore contribute to the democrat party?
"If you're 20 and not a liberal, you have no heart. It you're 40 and not a conservative, you have no brain."
~Winston Churchill
Calvin Coolidge, responding to woman - "You lose"
#10. To: Ignore Amos (#8)
"If you're 20 and not a liberal, you have no heart. It you're 40 and not a conservative, you have no brain." ~Winston Churchill
#11. To: Ignore Amos (#9)
Just how much DOES Moore contribute to the democrat party?
#12. To: Ignore Amos, lucysmom (#9)
Not really. Unlike hypocrite Moore, I'm not full of resentment and class-envy.
#13. To: lucysmom, Ignore Amos (#11)
(Edited)
400 Americans have more wealth than half of all Americans combined.
#14. To: Godwinson (#0)
The truth is, there's lots of money to go around. LOTS. It's just that those in charge have diverted that wealth into a deep well that sits on their well-guarded estates.
#15. To: lucysmom (#11)
How do you think what Moore contributes to Democrats stacks up to what Koch contributes to Republicans?
Since I am not a republican, I don't really care what your new boogey-men - the Koch Brothers - contribute to them.
"If you're 20 and not a liberal, you have no heart. It you're 40 and not a conservative, you have no brain."
~Winston Churchill
Calvin Coolidge, responding to woman - "You lose"
#16. To: Godwinson, Ignore Amos (#12)
Most slaves liked their masters.
#17. To: Godwinson (#12)
Most slaves liked their masters.
"If you're 20 and not a liberal, you have no heart. It you're 40 and not a conservative, you have no brain."
~Winston Churchill
Calvin Coolidge, responding to woman - "You lose"
#18. To: lucysmom (#16)
Most slaves liked their masters.
"If you're 20 and not a liberal, you have no heart. It you're 40 and not a conservative, you have no brain."
~Winston Churchill
Calvin Coolidge, responding to woman - "You lose"
#19. To: Godwinson (#13)
How is it that we do everything the opposite economically of what the USSR did and end up with almost the same results of a minority with more control over wealth than the majority.
#20. To: Ignore Amos, lucysmom (#18)
You're the collectivist, not me.
#21. To: Ignore Amos (#15)
I disagree with democrats probably 99.9 percent of the time. I disagree with (elected) republicans probably about 90 percent of the time.
#22. To: Ignore Amos (#17)
You LOVE authoritarians, so I guess you're speaking of yourself
#23. To: Ignore Amos (#18)
You're the collectivist, not me.
#24. To: Godwinson (#20)
#25. To: lucysmom (#24)
(Edited)
#26. To: Godwinson (#20)
Political tags -- such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth -- are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.”
-- Robert A Heinlein
#27. To: lucysmom (#22)
You have internalized the values of your masters - complete identification.
Political tags -- such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth -- are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.”
-- Robert A Heinlein
#28. To: lucysmom (#23)
Only in your black and white world.
Political tags -- such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth -- are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.”
-- Robert A Heinlein
#29. To: Ignore Amos, lucysmom (#26)
If you're going to debate, you're going to have to use terms as they are generally understood.
#30. To: Ignore Amos, lucysmom (#28)
#31. To: Godwinson (#30)
(Edited)
An economy that concentrates wealth in such small quantities like this not a properly working economy. It is an economic model no American alive today has ever seen. Ignore Amos (apt) this economic model you advocate for is a new model. You act like you are defending the traditional American model but its a new development.
#32. To: Ignore Amos, lucysmom (#26)
(Edited)
#33. To: Godwinson (#32)
(Edited)
What did Rand admire so much about Hickman? His sociopathic qualities: "Other people do not exist for him, and he does not see why they should," she wrote, gushing that Hickman had "no regard whatsoever for all that society holds sacred, and with a consciousness all his own. He has the true, innate psychology of a Superman. He can never realize and feel 'other people.'"This echoes almost word for word Rand's later description of her character Howard Roark, the hero of her novel The Fountainhead: "He was born without the ability to consider others."
#34. To: Godwinson (#25)
I am for the commonwealth aka old English for community wealth aka the common ground aka the commons.
#35. To: Godwinson (#30)
An economy that concentrates wealth in such small quantities like this not a properly working economy. It is an economic model no American alive today has ever seen. Ignore Amos (apt) this economic model you advocate for is a new model. You act like you are defending the traditional American model but its a new development.
#36. To: Rek (#35)
It's does have some US tradition in that it's the Robber Baron model.
#37. To: Godwinson, Ignore Amos (#29)
If you're going to debate, you're going to have to use terms as they are generally understood.
#38. To: Godwinson (#36)
No one alive today remember that era. My point is they act as if they are defending the American way but the economic system we are seeing now is something new to all of us. Not one person here has ever seen our economy (dis)function like this before.
#39. To: lucysmom, Ignore Amos, Rek (#37)
#40. To: Godwinson (#30)
An economy that concentrates wealth in such small quantities like this not a properly working economy. It is an economic model no American alive today has ever seen. Ignore Amos (apt) this economic model you advocate for is a new model.
#41. To: lucysmom, Ignore Amos (#37)
To: Godwinson, Ignore Amos
#42. To: Godwinson (#0)
#43. To: lucysmom (#40)
In fact, its a model the founding fathers wished to avoid.
#44. To: go65 (#42)
(Edited)
have you heard the one about the CEO, union member and tea party activist at a cocktail party? The host brings by a tray of a dozen cookies. The CEO takes 11, then looks at the tea party activist and says "Watch that union guy, he wants your cookie."
#45. To: Godwinson (#32)
"This echoes almost word for word Rand's later description of her character Howard Roark, the hero of her novel The Fountainhead: "He was born without the ability to consider others."
#46. To: Godwinson (#30)
An economy that concentrates wealth in such small quantities like this not a properly working economy.
We both agree that this is not a properly working economy. We disagree on the solution. It is an economic model no American alive today has ever seen.
Would you agree that wealth = power = privledge? From the ancient Romans going forward - can you name a culture or society where there wasn't a very small (relative to the numbers of the general populaiton) privledged class? Ignore Amos (apt) this economic model you advocate for is a new model.
Not it's not. It's the same one that we had had up until about the Wilson Administration. You act like you are defending the traditional American model but its a new development.
Political tags -- such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth -- are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.”
-- Robert A Heinlein
#47. To: lucysmom (#40)
(Edited)
In fact, its a model the founding fathers wished to avoid.
#48. To: Godwinson (#36)
No one alive today remember that era. My point is they act as if they are defending the American way but the economic system we are seeing now is something new to all of us. Not one person here has ever seen our economy (dis)function like this before.
#49. To: Ignore Amos (#46)
(Edited)
I'm not "advocating" or "defending" anything - I'm just observing. Quite frankly, the USA (like all emprires that have preceeded it) is in it's death throes, and it's anyone's guess as to what will replace it. Depending on what next crisis hits - probably one that will cause the grid to fail - we're about to find out.
#50. To: Ignore Amos (#46)
From the ancient Romans going forward - can you name a culture or society where there wasn't a very small (relative to the numbers of the general populaiton) privledged class?
#51. To: Rek (#49)
everyone here can read.
Political tags -- such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth -- are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.”
-- Robert A Heinlein
#52. To: Godwinson (#36)
(Edited)
Not one person here has ever seen our economy (dis)function like this before.
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
Godwinson posted on 2011-02-23 11:47:32 ET
http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=18011&Disp=46#C46
#53. To: Godwinson (#50)
(Edited)
They collapsed because wealth began to be concentrated to fewer and fewer hands thus weakening the empire.
Political tags -- such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth -- are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.”
-- Robert A Heinlein
#54. To: Ignore Amos (#51)
Good job!
#55. To: Rek (#54)
First name caller in loses.
Political tags -- such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth -- are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.”
-- Robert A Heinlein
#56. To: Ignore Amos (#55)
Now, get back on that short bus with Lucy.
#57. To: lucysmom (#56)
One way or another you can't seem to resist asserting the role of the dictator.
Well then, you should love me. (Since you love authority figures) You are a class act.
I knew I couldn't fool you.
Political tags -- such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth -- are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.”
-- Robert A Heinlein
#58. To: Ignore Amos (#55)
First one that insinuates to posters that Faux News (hahahah that's so funny), Rush Limbaugh, Sarah Palin or Hitler does their thinking for them loses.
#59. To: Rek (#58)
(Edited)
you think when it is copied here you will be immune from the effects and not become similiar to those poor peons displaced by their own country.
Political tags -- such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth -- are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.”
-- Robert A Heinlein
#60. To: Rek (#58)
It already has concentrated it's wealth quite nicely into a few families, and I supposed you think when it is copied here you will be immune from the effects and not become similiar to those poor peons displaced by their own country.
#61. To: Ignore Amos (#59)
#62. To: Ignore Amos (#59)
Best to just enjoy the ride, 'cuz there ain't nothing us "peons" can do about it.
#63. To: lucysmom (#60)
(Edited)
They have also managed to shift a large portion of the tax burden to those who can least afford it.
#64. To: lucysmom (#60)
They have also managed to shift a large portion of the tax burden to those who can least afford it.
#65. To: Rek (#61)
If this is what you consider to be 'in it's death throes'
Yeah, that's right. Trillions of dollars in debt and an incompetent POTUS who wants to spend even more is a piece o cake. What WAS I thinking . . . then we evidently have dug ourselves out of it many, many times in the past.
Yeah, WWII was a gas
Political tags -- such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth -- are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.”
-- Robert A Heinlein
#66. To: lucysmom (#62)
I dis agree with that
Political tags -- such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth -- are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.”
-- Robert A Heinlein
#67. To: hondo68 (#52)
Perhaps you're too young to have experienced one of Jimmi Carter's fireside chats?
#68. To: Ignore Amos, Re, lucysmom (#59)
Best to just enjoy the ride, 'cuz there ain't nothing us "peons" can do about it.
#69. To: Godwinson (#68)
That explains it - Ignore Amos is a nihilist and wants to see the system collapse under its own inequity rather than offer any solution to fix it as a patriot would.
Bzzzzzzzzt, wrong answer. Thanks so much for playing. As you leave, please see Johnny for some fine consolation prizes . . . Deep down inside I think most so called conservatives are like that - they want to destroy the system because they know it failed
So far, so good. Let me ask you - if someone honestly believes something is a failure and something else is better, why would he/she want to preseve the failure? and they know they advocated an ideology that failed but can't face up to it.
Awwww, and you were doing so good, too. Why is it you statists always seem to assign evil motives to those you happen to disagree with?
Political tags -- such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth -- are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.”
-- Robert A Heinlein
#70. To: Ignore Amos (#69)
So far, so good. Let me ask you - if someone honestly believes something is a failure and something else is better, why would he/she want to preseve the failure?
#71. To: Godwinson (#70)
It is very clear you don't want to change anything for the better.
Political tags -- such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth -- are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.”
-- Robert A Heinlein
#72. To: Ignore Amos, go65, lucysmom (#71)
(Edited)
I believe in limited government.
#73. To: Godwinson (#72)
Political tags -- such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth -- are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.”
-- Robert A Heinlein
#74. To: Ignore Amos (#73)
#75. To: Godwinson (#0)
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899
#76. To: Rek, Ignore Amos (#54)
To: Ignore Amos
#77. To: Capitalist Eric (#76)
Political tags -- such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth -- are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.”
-- Robert A Heinlein
#78. To: Ignore Amos, Godwinson (#69)
So far, so good. Let me ask you - if someone honestly believes something is a failure and something else is better, why would he/she want to preseve the failure?
#79. To: jwpegler, Godwinson (#75)
The top 1% income earners earn 20% of the income in the U.S. They pay 40% of the taxes. In fact, the top 1% now pay more taxes than the bottom 95% combined.
#80. To: lucysmom (#78)
If a garden is neglected, is the garden a failure when it is overgrown with weeds?
This is just a guess, since I know squat about gardening - but I suppose it might depende on what kind of weeds we are talking about. And how long the weeds have been allowed to do thier thing unabated. The founding fathers never claimed to have given us a form of government that was self perpetuating and didn't require maintenance.
Many of us tend to put the FFs on pedestals, but I don't think they looked at themselves as anything that special. Certainly Washington didn't - he did not want to be declared a King. If I'm correct in that assumption, then you too believe a better world is coming. I just don't happen to beleve it will come through any political system man devises. His lust for power and greed ALWAYS supersede any good intentions.
That sounds nice, and please forgive me if I come off as critical, but that sounds somewhat pan-Theistic. But who knows?
Political tags -- such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth -- are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.”
-- Robert A Heinlein
#81. To: Ignore Amos (#80)
That sounds nice, and please forgive me if I come off as critical, but that sounds somewhat pan-Theistic. But who knows?
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