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The Water Cooler
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Title: Top Neocon Faults Obama for Not Showing "Loyalty" to Israel
Source: Huffington
URL Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mj-ro ... n-faults-obama-f_b_828620.html
Published: Feb 26, 2011
Author: MJ Rosenberg
Post Date: 2011-02-26 19:32:14 by Brian S
Keywords: None
Views: 15464
Comments: 27

It has been a week since the United States vetoed a U.N. Security Council resolution opposing Israeli settlements. You can't help but wonder if the Obama administration is now having second thoughts.

Forget the policy ramifications of the veto: that it badly damaged America's chances of facilitating negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians and that it further alienated the United States from the Arab and Muslim world at a critical moment in history. Lay aside that the veto cut the Israeli peace camp off at the knees while vindicating Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu's policy of never giving an inch to the Palestinians (or to the Americans). And, obviously, don't even think about the hypocrisy of the United States voting against its own long-standing policy on settlements.

No. Focus instead on the domestic politics because, after all, the U.S. opposed the resolution in order to guard President Obama from attacks by the right wing of the pro-Israel community, that small minority of the community whose mantra is "Bibi, right or wrong."

For some reason the administration believed that vetoing the resolution would appease that crowd. That belief is responsible for over two years of vacillation on the issue of Israeli settlements (the key issue thwarting negotiations).

But here is what the Obama administration does not understand about the politics.

The "Bibi, right or wrongers" are not Obama supporters and will not be voting for him in the next election. They certainly will not be sending him campaign contributions.

Why would they? They did not support Obama in 2008, largely because they did not believe that anyone named Barack Obama could ever share their skewed view of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. And, as the 2009 Cairo speech demonstrated, he doesn't. He supports Israel but believes -- and he has said this often -- that supporting Israel requires ending the occupation and establishing a Palestinian state in the occupied territories.

Nothing Obama does will convince the "right or wrongers" that he is on their side because he isn't. He is, however, on Israel's side -- and the Palestinians' side as well.

Unfortunately, the lobby and a few of his advisers seem to have convinced him that being true to his beliefs will cost him in the 2012 election. Hence the veto.

Obama has the politics wrong. According to the 2010 American Jewish Committee poll (the largest and most respected poll of the Jewish community's political attitudes) 64 percent of Jewish voters favor the dismantling of all or some of Israeli settlements. Obviously, that 64 percent will not be lost to Obama for condemning settlement expansion.

Another AJC poll, this one in 2008, showed that only 3 percent of American Jews considered Israel their primary issue in the 2008 elections. (By way of contrast, 65 percent chose either the economy or health care as their top concern.)

So who might be impressed by the veto? People who will be supporting Romney, Huckabee, Palin or whoever the GOP nominates in 2012.

Here is one (there are many) example of how unimpressed the "Bibi, right or wrongers" were by the president's veto.

This appeared in Commentary -- the bible of the neoconservatives -- and was written by its editor, Jonathan S. Tobin. Tobin, although not well known, is a leading voice in the "Israel can do no wrong" chorus.

In theory, he should be praising Obama for vetoing the resolution. He isn't.

And that is because although Obama vetoed the resolution, he only did so after first attempting to head it off with a statement that still would have criticized settlements. Tobin believes that the president should have simply endorsed Israel's position as if Obama were, say, the editor of Commentary and not President of the United States.

Things could be worse. Had the U.S. not vetoed the resolution it would have been the final signal that this administration really was determined to cut loose the Israelis. But by showing that the veto was cast reluctantly and with ill will, the effect is not much different. So while relations could still deteriorate further, there is no doubt that Obama's negative feelings toward Israel are becoming a serious factor in Middle East diplomacy...

So, to please Tobin and his crowd, the president must not only do whatever the right-wing leader of the Israeli government wants him to do, he must so with enthusiasm.

Israel, for its part, need not do anything the United States wants. For instance, Tobin does not even mention that the United States (which provides Israel with $3.5 billion in aid every year and exempts it from the budget cuts applied to virtually all other programs) asked Israel for a mere 90-day settlement freeze to facilitate negotiations. Netanyahu couldn't even be bothered to respond, even when Obama offered him an extra $3.5 billion to sweeten the pot.

But Tobin doesn't care about that. For him, the U.S.-Israel relationship is a one-way street. The U.S. gives and Israel gets.

And this is who the administration tries to placate.

The White House needs to learn that there is simply no point in trying to win over this bunch. They cannot be appeased except by the complete subordination of U.S. interests to those of Netanyahu.

Tobin himself admits it. At one point in the Commentary piece, he writes that he does not credit Obama's veto as proof that he is a "friend of Israel." After all, he contends, Obama was only pushed to veto by the Palestinians' "intransigence" rather than by "Obama's loyalty to his Israeli ally."

Loyalty? Is it part of a president's job description to be loyal to a foreign country? Obama isn't "loyal" even to Canada or the United Kingdom. His loyalty is to the United States, which he, like every president, attempts to fulfill through policies he believes advance those interests (including pursuing Israeli-Palestinian peace).

But loyalty to Israel? No, I don't think President Obama's loyalty quite runs in that direction. (Nor would any American president's.)

That is what the "Netanyahu right-or-wrong" crowd will never accept. That is why appeasing them is as pointless as it is destructive to U.S. interests.

And there is another more cynical reason why they can be safely ignored. They represent pretty much no one, which is why President Obama received close to 80 percent of the Jewish vote in the last election and will do just as well next time.

There is no chance that the president will lose that support just because he promotes policies that advance U.S. interests by promoting peace. To think otherwise is to suggest that American Jews are something less than Americans. And that is a damnable lie.
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#1. To: Brian S (#0)

Brian. Brian. There is something you need to learn. Muslims are the bad guys. Israel is the good guys. The Koran is to wipe your ass with. The Bible is to teach you the way to be.

A K A Stone  posted on  2011-02-27   7:30:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Brian S (#0)

The USSA/Israel are now completely isolated.

That vote was worse than this article states.

There were ZERO abstentions. Anywhere. Everyone voted against us.

" Fourthly, there is no opportunity missed to heap praise on puppet Iraqi repression forces. (Upon learning that some 20 protesters were killed, this is what a US commander has said: "Col. Barry A. Johnson, a spokesman for the United States military, said Iraq’s security forces appeared to respond well to the volatile, sometimes violent, crowds. “The Iraqi forces’ response appeared professional and restrained,” he said in an e-mail.").

Well, at least he didn't suggest that the Iraqi victims shot themselves in order to make Americans look bad, following the logic of the Grand High Poobah of the Militarist Lodge, David Petraeus, with his recent "suggestions" that the grubby little darkies in Afghanistan were burning their own children as a PR stunt."

www.chris-floyd.com/

mcgowanjm  posted on  2011-02-27   8:44:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: A K A Stone (#1)

The Bible is to teach you the way to be.

You're in a cult, A K.

I know it's hard for you to understand. But you need to take baby steps to wean yourself from it.

Start focusing on how christians treat the world like they can destroy it for their beliefs. That's a start.

Like this. Ensign, one of your fellow cultists:

"Senator John Ensign, Republican of Nevada, introduced a bill last month to require all low-security prisoners to work 50 hours a week. Creating a national prison labor force has been a goal since he went to Congress in 1995, but it makes even more sense in this economy, he said.

“Think about how much it costs to incarcerate someone,” Mr. Ensign said. “Do we want them just sitting in prison, lifting weights, becoming violent and thinking about the next crime? Or do we want them having a little purpose in life and learning a skill?”

Financial experts agree." Source NYT 8D

mcgowanjm  posted on  2011-02-27   8:46:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: mcgowanjm (#3)

The Bible is to teach you the way to be.

You're in a cult, A K.

I know. Don't Steal. Love your enemy. Help the poor and prisoners. Don't bear false witness (lie). Stay faithful to your wife. Feed the hungry. Be kind to your neighbor. Help strangers in need. It is such a terrible book isn't it.

Compare that with satans book the Koran.

A K A Stone  posted on  2011-02-27   8:50:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: mcgowanjm (#3)

"Senator John Ensign, Republican of Nevada, introduced a bill last month to require all low-security prisoners to work 50 hours a week. Creating a national prison labor force has been a goal since he went to Congress in 1995, but it makes even more sense in this economy, he said.

What are you babbling about. The massive evacuations in the Gulf? Oh no not this time. I can't find those verses or anything similar in the Bible. You're all over the map.

A K A Stone  posted on  2011-02-27   8:52:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: A K A Stone (#5)

What are you babbling about.

Note not a word about Ensign.

See, the problem is that you have a Very Narrow view of how the world works, with your disciples working overtime to limit that world view further.

Never is there a comparison of your CrazyCracker demagogues with what you purport to be crazy.

I just remedied that.

And of course you can't acknowledge same. No mystery there.

The massive evacuations in the Gulf?:

And you want to talk about the USbpEcocide in the Gulf of Mexico now?

Sure. Btw, you really need to understand that yukon/blewfartsky is being ignored and that anything he says is batshit crazynazi- just sayin. 8D

"Researcher undergoes “decontamination” after working with dead baby dolphins February 27th, 2011 at 06:50 AM

Researchers carry a heavy load with dolphin deaths, Sun Herald, February 26, 2011:

A research assistant, … Read more >>...source floridaoilspilllaw.com

mcgowanjm  posted on  2011-02-27   9:00:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: mcgowanjm (#6)

Note not a word about Ensign.

We were talking about how you said I was in a cult because I believe in God. You then started talking about some dude wanting to make prisoners work. You have several screws loose.

A K A Stone  posted on  2011-02-27   9:06:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: A K A Stone (#7)

We were talking about how you said I was in a cult because I believe in God.

yes.

You then started talking about some dude wanting to make prisoners work.

Some dude?

Ensign is some dude? You want to stay with that one? Cause that's just one off hand quote I pulled from one of your multi millionaire cult believers. And beleive me, Ensign has some crazycracker cult habits.

I'm just sayin' that when you and yours start pulling 'your examples of crazy' out for observation, I've got a closet full of 'crazy' to show you as well.

8D

'You have several screws loose.' And you are normal. Is that your arguement, A K? That if you don't believe in the Great White Cloud Father who will always take time out to fix a ball game for the true believer 8D you've got screws loose?

And jesus then rode in on his dinosaur. Screw Loose?

mcgowanjm  posted on  2011-02-27   9:18:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: A K A Stone (#1)

Brian. Brian. There is something you need to learn. Muslims are the bad guys. Israel is the good guys. The Koran is to wipe your ass with. The Bible is to teach you the way to be.

mmm....

Jews: Old Testament (Torah) -> Talmud

Christians: Old Testament -> New Testament

Muslims: Old Testament -> New Testament -> Koran

Mormons: Old Testament -> New Testament -> Book of Mormon

Who believes in the New Testament? Christians and Jews? No.

Muslims believe that Jesus was a son of god and an important profit. They have a different interpretation of the deity of Christ as did some early Christian sects, like the Gnosticts.

Jews on the other don't believe in the New Testament or Christ at all. AT ALL.


"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899

jwpegler  posted on  2011-02-27   15:44:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: jwpegler (#9)

Muslims believe that Jesus was a son of god and an important profit.

I think you are incorrect there. It is my understanding that they talk about Jesus being a great prophet. But they deny he is the son of God or that he was born of a virgin. I think their book is evil. They put Christ in it to camouflage the true nature of their satanic book.

The Bible teaches that the Jews got it wrong but will eventually come to understand the truth.

I'm not claiming to be the know it all expert. But that is the way I understand it.

A K A Stone  posted on  2011-02-27   16:09:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: A K A Stone (#10) (Edited)

I think you are incorrect there. It is my understanding that they talk about Jesus being a great prophet. But they deny he is the son of God or that he was born of a virgin.

That's right. Muslims teach that all prophets are sons of god. But they deny the deity of Jesus. But they still believe that Jesus was a real person and that he was working on behalf of God. Jews do not believe this.


"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899

jwpegler  posted on  2011-02-27   16:11:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: A K A Stone (#1)

Israel is the good guys.

I pity you and your delusions but enjoy them while the bastard state still exists.

Shouldn't be long now before the 'problem' is resolved to my satisfaction.

Never swear "allegiance" to anything other than the 'right to change your mind'!

Brian S  posted on  2011-02-27   16:24:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: A K A Stone (#10)

The Bible teaches that the Jews got it wrong but will eventually come to understand the truth.

The New Testament teaches no such thing.

Traditional Christians believe that Jews were chosen to spread god's word. When they rejected Jesus, Christians became the chosen people.

The view that Jews will once again become God's chosen people (after Christians are "raptured") was created by John Nelson Darby in the 19th century. Darby treated the Bible as jigsaw puzzle -- gluing together passages from the Old Testament and New, out of context.

Darby's theory is called "Dispensationalism". It road through America on the back of the Pentecostal movement, which was created in the early 20th century. That's how it became popular here.

The bulk of the world's Christians do not believe this. They believe that Christians are God's chosen people (chosen to spread god's word) because we believe in Christ.

Again, at least Muslims believe that there was a Jesus and that he was acting upon God's behalf. That doesn't get you saved, but it's very different than believing that Jesus never existed and that the New Testament is nothing more than a piece of anti-Semitic garbage (which is what the bulk of Jews believe).


"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899

jwpegler  posted on  2011-02-27   16:26:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Brian S (#12)

Shouldn't be long now before the 'problem' is resolved to my satisfaction.

What would satisfy you?

Do you want to put some money on it.

Lets wager that Israel still exists in 1 years time.

Would you wager that?

If not what do you consider "shouldn't be long".

A K A Stone  posted on  2011-02-27   16:26:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Brian S (#12) (Edited)

Shouldn't be long now before the 'problem' is resolved to my satisfaction.

I rarely get into discussions about Israel, because quite frankly the American media and political establishment talks about Israel too much.

I that know you want the Jews out of Israel.

Where do you suggest they go?


"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899

jwpegler  posted on  2011-02-27   16:29:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: jwpegler (#13)

The Bible teaches that the Jews got it wrong but will eventually come to understand the truth.

The New Testament teaches no such thing.

<< Romans 11 >> King James Version 1I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, 3Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 4But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. 5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

8(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

9And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:

10Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

11I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 13For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 15For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? 16For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

17And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 24For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. 30For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

33O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! 34For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counseller? 35Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? 36For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

A K A Stone  posted on  2011-02-27   16:29:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: A K A Stone (#14)

1 year would certainly be pleasing but a bit hasty. Easily within 5 years however which in my book, is 'not long'.

Shouldn't you be doing something to prepared as your 'cult' awaits? After all, you crazies have been waiting for 'the day' much longer than I.

Never swear "allegiance" to anything other than the 'right to change your mind'!

Brian S  posted on  2011-02-27   16:33:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: jwpegler (#15)

Where do you suggest they go?

Back to their country of origin...where ever that might be.

Never swear "allegiance" to anything other than the 'right to change your mind'!

Brian S  posted on  2011-02-27   16:36:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Brian S (#17)

When Israel is attacked by the confederation of nations mentioned in whatever book whatever verse. Then they are destroyed like the Bible teaches. Are you going to open up and say maybe you were wrong? Or will you harden your heart and resist even more?

You don't need to call me a cult member. Christian will suffice.

A K A Stone  posted on  2011-02-27   16:42:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Brian S (#18)

Back to their country of origin...where ever that might be.

Most all of them were born there my friend.

A K A Stone  posted on  2011-02-27   16:43:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: jwpegler (#13)

Again, at least Muslims believe that there was a Jesus and that he was acting upon God's behalf.

Sounds to me like a clever trick to fool christians into thinking muslims aren't part of the spirit of antichrist.

A K A Stone  posted on  2011-02-27   16:54:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: A K A Stone (#16) (Edited)

Romans mentions Jews, Gentles, and Israel (not Israelis). Romans does not say that all Jews will be saved. It does not say that all Israelis will be saved. It says that all of Israel will be saved.

There are several interpretations of what "Israel" means in the New Testament. Some people believe that the term "Israel" in the New Testament means people who believe in Christ. Others believe it means ethnic Jews. Others believe it means ethnic Jews who accept Christ. Still others believe it means the U.K. and American (who are the "lost tribes"). The last interpretation is clearly wrong in my view.


"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899

jwpegler  posted on  2011-02-27   17:49:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: jwpegler (#22)

Issac became Israel. So it would be his descendants. The Israelis are the Jews. That is what I believe.

I don't believe in the rapture. I think the verses people use to make that case are actually referring to the second coming.

Besides when they asked Jesus what the signs of the end would be in Matthew Chapter 24. It doesn't mention a rapture. It also talks about praying that your their flight doesn't happen in the winter. If there was a rapture they wouldn't need to pray about that issue.

The Jews were Jesus's people. In Matthew doesn't it talk about his people. Just some thoughts.

A K A Stone  posted on  2011-02-27   17:57:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Brian S (#18) (Edited)

Back to their country of origin...where ever that might be.

Israel demographics:

68.8% were born in Israel

21.6% were born in Europe and America

9.6% born in Asia and Africa

Israel is their country of origin. So, let me ask again. Where would you have them go?


"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899

jwpegler  posted on  2011-02-27   17:59:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: A K A Stone (#23) (Edited)

I don't believe in the rapture. I think the verses people use to make that case are actually referring to the second coming.

That's my belief too -- it's the second coming.


"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899

jwpegler  posted on  2011-02-27   18:05:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: jwpegler (#24)

68.8% were born in Israel

They then should seek assylum in their parents 'homeland'.

Afterall, don't 'you people' wish to deport all children of illegals born in this country?

Never swear "allegiance" to anything other than the 'right to change your mind'!

Brian S  posted on  2011-02-27   20:26:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: A K A Stone (#4)

Love your enemy. Help the poor and prisoners. Don't bear false witness (lie). Stay faithful to your wife. Feed the hungry. Be kind to your neighbor. Help strangers in need. It is such a terrible book isn't it.

And you do all these things?

meguro  posted on  2011-02-28   0:49:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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