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Title: Why Budget Cuts Don’t Bring Prosperity (Editors Note: Liberal flakes think debt brings prosperity)
Source: NY Times
URL Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/23/b ... 8476805-+EVLD3awkLTiddJu1p0IDw
Published: Feb ,
Author:
Post Date: 2011-02-23 12:22:41 by go65
Keywords: None
Views: 26778
Comments: 45

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#1. To: jwpegler, skip intro, lucysmom (#0)

ping!

Since January 3, 2011, Republicans have controlled the power of the purse.

go65  posted on  2011-02-23   12:23:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: go65 (#1)

This article is shit. Borrowing doesn't bring prosperity.

I guess we should print a million dollars for every American. We would all be millionaires. That's the ticet.

A K A Stone  posted on  2011-02-23   12:33:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: go65 (#1)

Facts -- who needs 'em. We have Jebus....

"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.

Godwinson  posted on  2011-02-23   12:35:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: A K A Stone (#2)

This article is shit. Borrowing doesn't bring prosperity.

What's venture capital about?

You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand

lucysmom  posted on  2011-02-23   12:46:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: A K A Stone (#2)

This article is shit. Borrowing doesn't bring prosperity.

That depends on the timing, government spending during downtimes does indeed lead to prosperity. The trick is cutting spending/debt during times of growth.

Since January 3, 2011, Republicans have controlled the power of the purse.

go65  posted on  2011-02-23   12:53:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: lucysmom (#4)

What's venture capital about?

with the exception of Jwpegler, most conservatives will admit that government spending for WWII drove economic growth.

Since January 3, 2011, Republicans have controlled the power of the purse.

go65  posted on  2011-02-23   12:55:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: lucysmom, A K A Stone, go65 (#4)

This article is shit. Borrowing doesn't bring prosperity.

Why do Republicans who are normal everyday people think they are climatologists or economists or what not when they comment on such issues?

Going by your gut rather than your head gets us into Iraq style wars.

"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.

Godwinson  posted on  2011-02-23   12:56:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: go65, lucysmom (#6)

with the exception of Jwpegler, most conservatives will admit that government spending for WWII drove economic growth.

What's funny is they mention this as a reason why socialism does not work. What happens is they misread - or Limbough mistold them - that FDR's programs did not get us out of the Depression only WW2 spending did.

Well that proved uber socialism (for a short period until recovery sets in) kicked started the economy and that half measure socialism just kept us afloat - but that goes over their head.

"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.

Godwinson  posted on  2011-02-23   12:59:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: go65 (#6)

with the exception of Jwpegler, most conservatives will admit that government spending for WWII drove economic growth.

Yeah, but they say it like its a bad thing.

You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand

lucysmom  posted on  2011-02-23   13:04:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: lucysmom (#4)

What's venture capital about?

VC = Investment to create new products and services.

Not borrowing to subsidize bureaucrats.


"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899

jwpegler  posted on  2011-02-23   13:08:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: jwpegler (#10)

VC = Investment to create new products and services.

What about government "investing" in new technologies, infrastructure, and research?

You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand

lucysmom  posted on  2011-02-23   13:18:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Godwinson (#8)

FDR's policies prolonged the depression. You twenty year olds think you know something. You don't. You are clueless.

A K A Stone  posted on  2011-02-23   15:54:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: A K A Stone (#12)

FDR's policies prolonged the depression.

Because the cure of full socialism was resisted as WW2 socialism proved.

"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.

Godwinson  posted on  2011-02-23   16:06:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: lucysmom, jwpegler (#11)

What about government "investing" in new technologies, infrastructure, and research?

Yea, like the govt created internet and the gove funded satellites that allow me to watch all of the sports channels....

"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.

Godwinson  posted on  2011-02-23   16:07:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: go65 (#0)

LOL!

Honestly, what planet are you idiots from?

When you are in a financial hole what do you do as an individual?

SPEND MORE?

Really, what drugs are you idiots abusing?

Living in mouth breather's empty noggins 24/7/365 totally rent free!

Mad Dog  posted on  2011-02-23   16:15:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: A K A Stone (#2)

This article is shit. Borrowing doesn't bring prosperity.

I hope you told that to George Bush after he started two unfunded wars.

"I hate this damn job" - Sarah Palin

Skip Intro  posted on  2011-02-23   16:27:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Godwinson (#13)

You aren't very well informed.

A K A Stone  posted on  2011-02-23   16:28:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Skip Intro (#16)

I hope you told that to George Bush after he started two unfunded wars.

Bush was bad. Obama is about 1000 times worse.

A K A Stone  posted on  2011-02-23   16:29:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: go65 (#6) (Edited)

with the exception of Jwpegler, most conservatives will admit that government spending for WWII drove economic growth.

Great, let's start WWIII and we'll all be rich.

War is a large version of the Keynesian broken window nonsense. According to the Keynesian Kooks, if someone breaks your window and that's a good thing because Pella has more work. What you don't see is that J.C. Penney has less work because the money you were saving to buy a suit now has to go to fixing the window.

War is just a big version of that.

I used to hear in the 70s and 80s that that the Japanese were kicking our butts because Japan was destroyed in WWII and therefore they were able to rebuild more modern factories. Seriously, this is what I learned in high school and college.

It's wrong. The Japanese kicked our butts because American auto companies were run by clueless idiots and staffed by fat, lazy unions members. America got too arrogant and complacent in the 20 to 30 years after WWII and we paid the price.


"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899

jwpegler  posted on  2011-02-23   16:30:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: jwpegler (#19)

War is a large version of the Keynesian broken window nonsense. Someone breaks your window and that's a good thing because the Pella has more work. What you don't see is that J.C. Penney has less work because the money you were saving to buy a suit now has to go to fixing the window.

War is just a big version of that.

That is a good example. It applies to the stimulus also.

A K A Stone  posted on  2011-02-23   16:34:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: lucysmom (#11) (Edited)

What about government "investing" in new technologies, infrastructure, and research?

I'm 100% in favor in government investing in infrastructure like roads, bridges, ports, etc.

Unfortunately, only 2% of the massive Obama "stimulus" was spent on these things. The rest was spent subsidizing state government bureaucrat pensions and healthcare. It didn't stimulate anything.

Pelosi and the rest of the nutters now call any and all government spending an "investment". That's wrong.

An investment is something that creates more productive capacity which facilitates future growth. The government has little capacity do this any longer because they are spending all of the money of transfer payments.

That's the problem.


"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899

jwpegler  posted on  2011-02-23   16:35:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: A K A Stone (#12) (Edited)

FDR's policies prolonged the depression.

All of the evidence shows that you are correct. The economy was in worse shape in 1938 than it was when Roosevelt took office in January 1933.

Sure WWII finally got people busy. Busy building bombs, tanks, and submarines. Did that make us wealthier? No. The country had to go into massive debt to do it. That deficit spending was unsustainable, just like government deficit spending is unsustainable today.

After WWII, the Keynesian Kooks tried to convince Truman to keep the war time economy going. They told him to build tanks and planes and park them in the desert.

Truman told them to shove off. Over the next three years, Truman cut government spending by 60% -- from 52% of GDP to 20% of GDP. According to g065, this should have collapsed the economy and put us into a even worse depression.

Instead, the private sector responded by creating products and servers that people wanted to buy to improve their lives. Yeah, economic activity was largely flat for those 3 years, but we were quickly transforming from an economy that built tanks and bombs to one that built houses, televisions, and dishwashers.

Truman saved this country. Not Roosevelt. Roosevelt nearly destroyed it.


"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899

jwpegler  posted on  2011-02-23   16:44:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: A K A Stone (#17)

You aren't very well informed.

That is the understatement of the year.


"Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899

jwpegler  posted on  2011-02-23   16:47:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: jwpegler (#21)

I'm 100% in favor in government investing in infrastructure like roads, bridges, ports, etc.

Unfortunately, only 2% of the massive Obama "stimulus" was spent on these things. The rest was spent subsidizing state government bureaucrat pensions and healthcare. It didn't stimulate anything.

1/3rd of it went to tax cuts in an effort to buy Republican votes, a colossal mistake IMHO.

Since January 3, 2011, Republicans have controlled the power of the purse.

go65  posted on  2011-02-23   17:02:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: jwpegler (#22) (Edited)

All of the evidence shows that you are correct. The economy was in worse shape in 1938 than it was when Roosevelt took office in January 1933.

On what do you base this? Certainly not GDP.

U.S. GDP (Billions):
in 1933: $56.4
in 1934: $66.0
in 1935: $73.3
in 1936: $83.8
in 1937: $91.9
in 1938: $86.1
in 1939: $92.2
in 1940: $101.4

Nor unemployment:
in 1933: 24.9%
in 1934: 21.7%
in 1935: 20.1%
in 1936: 16.9%
in 1937: 14.3%
in 1938: 19.0%
in 1939: 17.2%

Now map the above to spending:

in 1933: $8.7 billion
in 1934: $10.5
in 1935: $10.9
in 1936: $13.1
in 1937: $12.8
in 1938: $13.8
in 1939: $14.8

See the correlation?

Since January 3, 2011, Republicans have controlled the power of the purse.

go65  posted on  2011-02-23   17:07:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: A K A Stone (#18)

Bush was bad. Obama is about 1000 times worse.

Seems about the same to me, except he's black. Is that what you mean?

"I hate this damn job" - Sarah Palin

Skip Intro  posted on  2011-02-23   19:54:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: jwpegler (#19)

The Japanese kicked our butts because American auto companies were run by clueless idiots and staffed by fat, lazy unions members. America got too arrogant and complacent in the 20 to 30 years after WWII and we paid the price.

Fat, lazy, arrogant, clueless, and complacent indeed were issues, but they were management issues, not employee or union issues.

You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand

lucysmom  posted on  2011-02-23   22:34:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: jwpegler (#22)

Truman told them to shove off. Over the next three years, Truman cut government spending by 60% -- from 52% of GDP to 20% of GDP. According to g065, this should have collapsed the economy and put us into a even worse depression.

Instead, the private sector responded by creating products and servers that people wanted to buy to improve their lives. Yeah, economic activity was largely flat for those 3 years, but we were quickly transforming from an economy that built tanks and bombs to one that built houses, televisions, and dishwashers.

Truman saved this country. Not Roosevelt. Roosevelt nearly destroyed it.

They both saved it. Different circumstances require different solutions.

You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand

lucysmom  posted on  2011-02-23   22:39:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Skip Intro (#26)

Seems about the same to me, except he's black.

You racist POS, skidmark.

Ibluafartsky  posted on  2011-02-23   22:58:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: jwpegler (#22)

Truman told them to shove off. Over the next three years, Truman cut government spending by 60% -- from 52% of GDP to 20% of GDP. According to g065, this should have collapsed the economy and put us into a even worse depression.

the last time you made the point I showed you how GDP fell through the floor during the time Truman cut spending.

Go back and look at GDP under Hoover.

Since January 3, 2011, Republicans have controlled the power of the purse.

go65  posted on  2011-02-23   23:37:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: lucysmom, jwpegler (#28)

Truman saved this country. Not Roosevelt. Roosevelt nearly destroyed it.

Lucy, I like jwpegler but he has a penchant to post B.S. quite often, his claims about Truman are patently false. Go look at this thread; http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi? ArtNum=17226&Disp=40#C40

http://www.house.gov/jec/fiscal/budget/surplus2/surplus2.htm

The 1948-49 Vanishing of a Surplus

After the conclusion of World War II, defense spending fell dramatically. While taxes were lowered slightly, the huge fall in spending led to surpluses by 1947. By 1948, the defense demobilization was essentially complete, and the Nation ran a healthy surplus of nearly $12 billion - well over 4 percent of GDP, the biggest surplus of modern times. Yet within a year, it was all but gone. Why?

The overwhelming reason for the vanishing surplus was an increase in federal outlays of over 30 percent in a single year. Over 60 percent of the increase in spending related to national security and foreign affairs. The heating up of the Cold War after the Berlin Crisis of 1948 no doubt contributed to this. Military budgets were increased considerably, and foreign aid spending soared with the beginning of the Marshall Plan. The $9 billion spending increase dwarfed the $2.2 billion in tax reductions arising from changes in individual income taxation (e.g., the introduction of the joint return). The high wartime marginal tax rates remained. President Truman, however, blamed the 1948 tax reduction for keeping debt reduction from being greater, but the data suggest this was a distinctly secondary factor.11 Truman was pushing, often unsuccessfully, an expensive domestic spending agenda, including a national health insurance program. The near disappearance of the budget surplus, very dear to Truman's heart, was also not primarily a consequence of the relatively mild 1949 recession, which was only a factor in the last half of that fiscal year.12

US GDP Growth:
1941: 19%
1942: 15.2%
1943: -1.88%
1944: 28.14%
1945: -.75
1946: - 1%
1947: - .6%
1948: 7.6%
1949: -3.7%

Since January 3, 2011, Republicans have controlled the power of the purse.

go65  posted on  2011-02-23   23:41:15 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: go65 (#31)

he has a penchant to post B.S.

OMG, look at who the charred and burned cast iron kettle is calling black!

Ibluafartsky  posted on  2011-02-23   23:54:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Skip Intro (#26)

Seems about the same to me, except he's black. Is that what you mean?

How do you get that from what I said? I'm talking about his quadrupling of the debt. I'm talking about him saying he is anti war yet continues it. I'm talking about his baby murder philisophy. I'm talking about his support of destroying marriage position. I'm talking about his support of muslim propaganda. I'm talking about his refusal to release his birth certificate. I'm talking about his socialism. I'm talking about his saying he would close gitmo yet it remains open. I'm talking about lots and lots of stuff.

Nothing to do with his skin color.

You see I believe we all came from Adam and Eve and that we are all gods children.

A K A Stone  posted on  2011-02-24   0:21:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Skip Intro (#26)

Seems about the same to me, except he's black. Is that what you mean?

Are you trying to tell me you only like Obama because he is half black and you only hate Bush because he is white? Ok I got ya.

A K A Stone  posted on  2011-02-24   0:24:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: go65, jwpegler (#25)

The economy was in worse shape in 1938 than it was when Roosevelt took office in January 1933.

The recession in 1937 was the result of Roosevelt yielding to Republican pressure to reduce deficits, balance the budget and cut spending. (Gee whiz, where have I heard that before?)

When it became clear that wasn't working, Roosevelt increased spending for relief and public works with an additional $5 billion.

As go65's numbers show, the economy quickly recovered.

You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand

lucysmom  posted on  2011-02-24   0:54:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: jwpegler (#22) (Edited)

According to g065, this should have collapsed the economy and put us into a even worse depression.

There was a nearly one year recession between 1948 and 1949 from which the economy barely recovered. During this recession, the Gross Domestic Product of the United States fell 1.7 percent. In October of 1949, the unemployment rate reached its peak for the cycle of 7.9 percent. It took an outbreak of hostilities in Korea in 1950 to REALLY work off the excess labor pool and to get industry REALLY moving again.

war  posted on  2011-02-24   9:05:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: A K A Stone (#33)

I'm talking about his quadrupling of the debt.

Obama did not quadruple the debt.

war  posted on  2011-02-24   9:15:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: lucysmom, jwpegler (#35)

The recession in 1937 was the result of Roosevelt yielding to Republican pressure to reduce deficits, balance the budget and cut spending. (Gee whiz, where have I heard that before?)

When it became clear that wasn't working, Roosevelt increased spending for relief and public works with an additional $5 billion.

As go65's numbers show, the economy quickly recovered.

Maybe you'll have better luck getting through to jwpegler than I.

Since January 3, 2011, Republicans have controlled the power of the purse.

go65  posted on  2011-02-24   10:06:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: war (#36)

There was a nearly one year recession between 1948 and 1949 from which the economy barely recovered. During this recession, the Gross Domestic Product of the United States fell 1.7 percent. In October of 1949, the unemployment rate reached its peak for the cycle of 7.9 percent. It took an outbreak of hostilities in Korea in 1950 to REALLY work off the excess labor pool and to get industry REALLY moving again.

As i noted i post #32, we had negative GDP in 1949.

Since January 3, 2011, Republicans have controlled the power of the purse.

go65  posted on  2011-02-24   10:07:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: go65 (#39)

I think someone killed off the real jwpegler and gave us this doof in his place.

war  posted on  2011-02-24   10:27:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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