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Title: The Arab Revolution Saudi Update
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://saudiwoman.wordpress.com/201 ... -arab-revolution-saudi-update/
Published: Feb 20, 2011
Author: Saidia Arabia Woman
Post Date: 2011-02-20 19:49:41 by A K A Stone
Keywords: None
Views: 10527
Comments: 21

Remember, in a former post, when I said that Saudis were captivated and shocked by what happened in Tunis and Egypt but hadn’t collectively made up their mind about it? Well it appears that they have. Everywhere I go and everything I read points to a revolution in our own country in the foreseeable future. However we are still on the ledge and haven’t jumped yet.

I know that some analysts are worried particularly of Saudi Arabia being taken over by Al Qaeda or a Sunni version of the Iranian Islamic Revolution. Calm down. Besides my gut feeling (which is rarely wrong), the overwhelming majority of people speaking out and calling out for a revolution are people who want democracy and civil rights and not more of our current Arab tradition based adaptation of Sharia. My theory of why that is, is that Al Qaeda has already exhausted its human resources here. The available muttawas, are career muttawas (fatwa sheikhs) and minor muttawas (PVPV) of convenience both paid by the government and do not want the current win-win deal between them and the government to sour. So it’s unlikely that they would actively seek change. Actually quite the opposite, they will resist and delay as much as they can. Fortunately the winds of change can’t be deterred by a PVPV cruiser.

Last night Prince Talal Bin Abdul Alaziz, the king’s half-brother, did a TV interview on BBC Arabia that was widely watched and discussed. In it he warned of an upcoming storm if reforms aren’t dealt with right now. He used the word “evils” to describe what would happen if King Abdullah passed away before ordering the required changes. Prince Talal also strongly advocated a constitutional monarchy and democracy as long as it’s similar to what they have in Kuwait and Jordon. However he hinted that there were people in the ruling family who do not believe in change.

This whole past week was eventful. The first political party to form during King’s Abdullah’s reign, the Islamic Umma Party, has been arrested. According to the party’s released statement, they were informed that they would not be released until they sign a document promising that they will abandon all political aspirations.

In Qatif, a Shia majority area in Eastern Saudi, there is talk that there was a protest demanding the release of political prisoners yesterday. Ahmed Al Omran from SaudiJeans tweeted a pamphlet that was being distributed in Qatif, calling for protests today, Feb 18th, at 8pm.

A hashtag on Twitter, #EgyEffectSa, about the effect of Egypt on Saudi was popular, with a lot of courageous Saudis speaking their mind. The common thread across most of the tweets was for human rights, freedom of speech, democracy and government accountability.

Saving the best for last, a 6100 strong and growing group on Facebook has been started. The group is only for Saudis and you need to be approved to join. I’ve translated their demands:

The People want to Reform the Government Campaign

To support the right of the Saudi people and their legitimate aspirations: 1 – a constitutional monarchy between the king and government. 2 – a written constitution approved by the people in which governing powers will be determined. 3 – transparency, accountability in fighting corruption 4 – the Government in the service of the people 5 – legislative elections. 6 – public freedoms and respect for human rights 7 – allowing civil society institutions 8 – full citizenship and the abolition of all forms of discrimination. 9 – Adoption of the rights of women and non-discrimination against them. 10 – an independent and fair judiciary. 11 – impartial development and equitable distribution of wealth. 12 – to seriously address the problem of unemployment

Impressive, right?! And if these demands aren’t met, according to a lot of the discussions on the group’s page, there will be a protest in Riyadh on Olaya street March 11th. I was also impressed by their code of conduct in which they committed to no sectarianism, no violence or incitement to violence, and no hate speech.

Everyone is holding their breath and delaying doing anything drastic until the King is back. Reports vary, some say he is expected Monday, others say Wednesday. Either way, whatever he does when he gets back will decide the fate of our country. In my opinion, the least he can do is draw up and announce a clear succession that will carry the throne from the brothers’ generation into their sons’. As this is an area of great concern and instability for Saudis because we fear that without a clear and public succession, we might have a civil war between factions of the ruling family. King Abdullah should name names such as heir1 then heir2 then heir3…etc so that the fifth or sixth is a ten or twelve year old. Thus stability is maintained fifty years into the future. Another thing that needs to be done is to aggressively fight corruption and promote transparency and accountability for everyone no matter who they are. If these two issues are taken care of as soon as he gets off the plane, then I predict that things just might calm down and a lot of people won’t be so anxious for change. If not, then the campaign above will just grow bigger and bigger and many more will crop up until eventually the Saudi people will cross the revolution threshold.

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

#1. To: A K A Stone (#0)

King Abdullah should name names such as heir1 then heir2 then heir3…etc so that the fifth or sixth is a ten or twelve year old. Thus stability is maintained fifty years into the future.

Monarchy. What a quaint old idea.

The English tried this for centuries. All it brought them was fratricide and civil war.

Skip Intro  posted on  2011-02-20   19:57:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Skip Intro (#1)

90 Responses to The Arab Revolution Saudi Update

1. GeorgieBC February 18, 2011 at 3:36 am

Hi, I would really like this posted on WL Central if you are willing. Please send me an email at admin@wlcentral.org if you would like to discuss it. Thank you, and great article. 0 0

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Quantcast Reply * saudiwoman February 18, 2011 at 3:40 am

go ahead. Just please link back here as original source. thanks. 0 0

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Pingback: Tweets that mention The Arab Revolution Saudi Update | Saudiwoman's Weblog -- Topsy.com 3. POPPY February 18, 2011 at 7:14 am

Hi Saudiwoman, I would like to contact you, could you please give me your email address. I am a British woman living in Riyadh. 0 0

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Quantcast Reply * saudiwoman February 18, 2011 at 11:13 am

It’s on the About page. 1 0

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Quantcast Reply 4. SusieOfArabia February 18, 2011 at 8:12 am

The domino effect in northern Africa and the Middle East is definitely gaining momentum. It is all truly fascinating. This is only the beginning and it is the end of the world as we know it. I always love reading your insights. 6 0

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Quantcast Reply 5. sach February 18, 2011 at 8:56 am

Althose demands go against islam, so i wonder whether u would be successful. Anyhow gud luk! 2 11

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Quantcast Reply * SusieOfArabia February 18, 2011 at 9:16 am

Sach – Can you explain how these demands go against Islam? I don’t see it. 11 1

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Quantcast Reply o Muslim February 18, 2011 at 7:20 pm

Those demands are not against Islam. It is very sad that people think these demands are against Islam when they are clearly laid out in the Quran.

Muslims do not understand Islam themselves. 6 1

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Quantcast * ali February 18, 2011 at 10:47 pm

What? Against Islam? Explain. And if you are unable to explain.. then talk not again… 4 0

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Quantcast Reply o sach February 20, 2011 at 2:23 pm

2 – a written constitution approved by the people in which governing powers will be determined. In an islamic country the constitution has to be quran the word of god as they say. No human can form a constitution that can supersede the religion. It is against the very basic fundamentals of islam. As a muslim one must always abide by the rules of islam. 3 – transparency, accountability in fighting corruption To have transparency and accountability u have to have freedom of speech. Freedom of speech and islam dont go together. 4 – the Government in the service of the people The people are in the service of the god. 5 – legislative elections. Again in an election u have the choice. Chioce is not allowed in islam as long as it is done islamically. 6 – public freedoms and respect for human rights No public freedom as long as women include the public. Can a muslim in SA declare apostasy and practice any other faith? Is that allowable in islam? NO! Can a woman demand divorce if her husbands brings another woman? NO! respect for human rights are incompatible with islam. Didnt muslim countries try to have a islamic declaration if human rights. Bcos they themselves knew the universal declaration of human rights are not compatible with islam. 7 – allowing civil society institutions what sort of civil societies? can anyone form a christian society? a hindu society? is it according to islam? NO 8 – full citizenship and the abolition of all forms of discrimination. Full citizenship is women are considered human beings like their male counter part. right? But does islam let that happen? Isnt polygamy totally against gender equality? Isnt polygamy a part of islam? when u plan to ban all forms of discrimination can a non muslim go to mecca or madina? 9 – Adoption of the rights of women and non-discrimination against them. i explained this above 10 – an independent and fair judiciary. To have an independant and fair judiciary u have to have fair, sorted out and reasoned legakl system that is humans deciding on a proper legal system. Doesnt that go against islam? 12 – to seriously address the problem of unemployment To create jobs u have to have innovation. To have innovation u have to have freedom of thought. But in islam quran is the source of everything there is no freedom of thought.

If women want to be treated as human, and to have those demands fulfilled u’re country has to be a secular country. sepertation of state and religion. But it is impossible for a islamic country to become secular. 2 7

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Quantcast * Yasser Taima February 19, 2011 at 10:45 am

Read Qaradawi on pluralism, democracy and religious freedom in Islam. Stay away from Wahhabi fanas. 4 0

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Quantcast Reply o sach February 20, 2011 at 2:27 pm

Qaradawi himself is anti democratic. U didnt give a good example, actually u cannot give a good example. u will never find a good muslim who live according to islam to be democratic, if u find a muslim who prefer democracy he will always turn out to be a bad muslim. 2 4

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Quantcast o Sami February 20, 2011 at 8:49 pm

Sach! You are talking out of your arse. All this may happen in your crap religion. Do not bullshit if you have knowledge of something. 2 2

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Quantcast 6. Lynda February 18, 2011 at 9:42 am

This is very interesting, thanks for enlightening us expats. We are just as interested in what’s going on in KSA as many Saudis, but because we dont speak Arabic, its very limiting!! I’ll continue to check back and see what happens! 1 0

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Quantcast Reply 7. Mansour February 18, 2011 at 10:10 am

Thank you for this post. I’m really impressed by the group announcement it’s exactly what prince Talal is trying to avoid. He kept repeating that king Abdullah is the “only” … there will be a period of devil after king Abdullah. Anyhow, keep us on track may Allah rewared all Saudis what they actually desirve. 0 1

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Quantcast Reply 8. Tord Steiro February 18, 2011 at 10:16 am

I’ve had the feeling that the Middle East and Northern Africa has been brewing, for years. I’ve also had the feeling that new media platforms could have a similar effect on present day regimes there, as the printing press had on Euorope onwards from 1436.

But I would never have guessed that things could unravel as fast as they have recently. It took Europe hundreds of years to end up with relatively democratic regimes. It took, hundreds of years of instability and chaos.

The fact that the Middle East now seems to accomplish this in a couple of years, starting about now, is impressive. It is almost so I can’t believe what is happening!

I just hope the development towards more democratic rule will continue, and not end in a century of chaos and further repression. 8 3

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Quantcast Reply * David February 19, 2011 at 3:28 am

The Middle East hasn’t achieved democracy yet – so can you say it “seems to accomplish this in a couple of years?” Overthrowing a dictator is only the beginning and is no guarantee of success. As for Europe, some countries have had democratic institutions for centuries, while others are still struggling to establish them. Describing this process as “hundreds of years of instability and chaos” is a false generalization. That might be true of Russia and Bulgaria, but it certainly isn’t true of the United Kingdom, Switzerland and the Scandinavian countries, for example. 6 3

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Quantcast Reply o Yasser Taima February 19, 2011 at 10:43 am

Why people don’t read history before talking about it is beyond me. Egypt, Tunisia, Turkey, Iran and to a lesser extent Iraq, Syria and even Lybia had functioning democracies albeit weakened by the victorious powers’ grip after the second world war until they all succumbed to military coups, some supported by Russia, the others by America. Turkey was a reforming empire that lost a war and was broken up, just like the Austro-Hungarian empire. Why Eastern Europeans could resurrect democratic institutions and thrive within 10 years (starting from the early 199082;s) and Arabs can’t a priori is a mystery to me. Egypt was a constitutional monarchy in the 192082;s through the 195082;s, and Tunisia’s first constitution and charte of fundamental rights were promulgated (by the Bey) in the 186082;s. 7 0

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Quantcast o Olof Lee February 20, 2011 at 12:03 pm

David your understanding of the history of British democracy is underwhelming. 0 0

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Quantcast o Apeon February 21, 2011 at 12:31 am

David–R U saying that UK achieved democracy in a matter of months, or that it was always there??—-You better go back and read about all the civil wars and then please googel “Runnymede”

No nation has achieved ‘democracy’ without armed conflict! Because, those who have Power do not willingly surrender it. And while they hold power they abuse those who do not have it!

All People deserve Freedom, but they have to work for it.

No Freedom no Law no freedom no law no freedom no law…….. 0 0

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Quantcast 9. Nicolae Tufar February 18, 2011 at 10:39 am

These news are so exciting. Saudi Arabia is a wonderful country with wonderful people and it hurts me seeing how crippled and dysfunctional the society is.

I am a foreigner living temporarily in Riyadh but if on March 11 there is a march in Olaya, I will be there alongside these brave and noble people. 11 0

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Quantcast Reply * sach February 20, 2011 at 2:30 pm

i dont expect the maid workers from 3rd world countries who work in SA to say the same. They say a different story every time. 1 2

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Quantcast Reply 10. Yusuf U. Ajingi February 18, 2011 at 12:28 pm

Saudis need a revolution of different magnitude. Atleast democratic bodies be enforced to allow for participation. I really pity Saudis for being under an atmosphere that even their Ulamas cannot ‘freely’ preach what they feel is right. 2 0

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Quantcast Reply 11. TheSniper February 18, 2011 at 1:52 pm

Hi Saudiwoman, There have been reports on the net that King Abdullah is actually dead or at least seriously ill. How much of it is true or is it just false rumours? 1 1

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Quantcast Reply * Antoinette February 19, 2011 at 5:09 pm

This is false! He in fact has had an operation on his back for slipped disks and is recouperating in his house in Morrocco. My good friends husband is one of his physicians who is w/ him this very moment. 2 0

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Quantcast Reply 12. Iliana February 18, 2011 at 3:49 pm

Great article! As someone who lived in the Gulf for 10 years and has seen quite a lot- I so hope you get the democracy you deserve! I especially hope and wish for Arab women to get the rights and appreciation they deserve! Arab women are smart, beautiful and capable and deserve equal opportunity for input into the life and rules of their society. You go girls! 8 0

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Quantcast Reply 13. Chris February 18, 2011 at 5:16 pm

The first step in a revolution is to get power frightened enough to budge a bit and allow some change. This whets the appetite for more and then more and soon the dam is completely breached. Once a despotism cracks it usually is unable to control the course of events. (I would love to see real democracy come to Arabia, as well as all the rest of the Arab world). 2 0

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Quantcast Reply 14.

Pingback: Sony Ericsson OS Update for Xperia X10 | e Cell Phone News 15.

Pingback: Revolution in Tunisia, Protests in Egypt & Yemen - Page 7 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community 16. amira~j February 18, 2011 at 6:14 pm

as much as i hated living KSA, I have mixed feelings on what is going to happen.I think its fair to say that a lot of foreigners have had a fair share of a luxury life in ksa and that is thanks to the monarchy. If a revolution happens is not going to be good. KSA is like America for many, to go live for a better future. I dont think it will be great for many to go back to their countries and go back to being nothing. I understand a lot of the issues that is happening that needs to be addressed but I dont think doing an Egypt like demonstration is going to be good. 0 6

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Quantcast Reply * leesis February 18, 2011 at 11:02 pm

I’m sorry but are you saying that financial luxury for a few is more important than human rights? 13 0

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Quantcast Reply o Yasser Taima February 19, 2011 at 10:28 am

Looks like it. Financial luxury for those anxious about losing it is very important. Most people in this region would define themselves with the brand of sunglasses they wear, which of course none are even remotely related to anyone who designed, manufactured or marketed them. Remove the sunglasses, figuratively or literally, and stark nakedness ensues. 8 0

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Pingback: Næste revolution: Marokko – og bagefter Saudi-Arabien? | Modpress 18. ali February 18, 2011 at 10:54 pm

I agree absolutely. I do hope things remain calm here and no protest happens in March. It will NOT be a pretty site … no. 1 6

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Quantcast Reply 19. Butterfly Jewel February 19, 2011 at 3:23 am

Whoa!Is there a possibility that it could become violent if this does happen? 1 0

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Quantcast Reply * Butterfly Jewel February 19, 2011 at 3:29 am

Thanks for posting this. It is definitely some very useful information, especially after what happened in Egypt. 1 0

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Quantcast Reply 20. Indian February 19, 2011 at 5:27 am

Protest in Saudi Arabia is totally uncalled for. At least in the last 16 years of my life here, i have seen that MashaAllah the Kingdom has taken good amount of care of Saudis, provided excellent opportunities in education, health, freedom to do anything and not be accounted , excellent infrastructure, and what not… if development has not anyone, its because they didnt work hard for it. Honestly i havent seen the hard work from you people (at least whom i have seen). May Allah grant you the will to hard work and make the most of the facilities given to you, which ordinary citizens in other countries cant dream of. May Allah protect the people of Saudi Arabia, its King and all the Country itself — ameen. Please DONT destroy your country 0 11

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Quantcast Reply * Yasser Taima February 19, 2011 at 10:23 am

Um, protest is about shouting in the street, with banners made of paper, usually. How can that destroy anything? Protest doesn’t mean going out and breaking stuff. It’s just voicing your opinion loudly together. 5 0

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Quantcast Reply o Indian February 19, 2011 at 12:13 pm

Protesting for having been pampered ! Protests have never remained at shouting, the end result has been chaos, looting, and what not.. Anyway, may Allah bless this country and its people 0 5

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Quantcast * Antoinette February 19, 2011 at 6:08 pm

The infrastructure is far from excellant,LOL! But all things are relative. 1 0

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Quantcast Reply * sally February 19, 2011 at 7:30 pm

Women dont have a vote. Women not allowed to drive. Women generally treated like shit. Foreign labour exploited. Saudis behind most of the extremists in the world.

All the benefits you mention are a result of the ‘luck’ that the biggest oil reserves are in the country – nothing to do with hard work, enterprise or clever thinking darling.

So you like all of the above and you want it to continue? Why? 12 1

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Quantcast Reply o Sami February 19, 2011 at 8:07 pm

Sally! I don’t know where you are from, but I agree with some of the things you said. Women also have rights and they should be given those rights. Women deserve respect and consideration.

But, what you said about women being treated like shit in Saudi, is not new. Women are treated like that all over the world. They may be given equal rights as men, allowed to work, drive and vote etc. But in actual fact women are exploited, used as sex symbols, sworn at and get beaten. Men have sex with women get them pregnant then dissapear leaving women to deal with their pregnancy or children who are born there after. Even if sexual precautions are taken, men just use women for sex to satisfy their lust and ego, all this under the pretence of love and relationship.

Women should realise that the have honour, respect dignity and should place themselves higher so men treat them with respect and honour and that women are not there just for the taking. 3 5

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Quantcast o Craig February 19, 2011 at 10:29 pm

I would suggest traveling to see the difference in how women are treated. While no nation is perfect, there’s significant evidence that women who have less rights experience much worse conditions than women in nations where equality is enshrined in law. 7 0

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Quantcast * cloud nine February 20, 2011 at 4:25 am

Indian….are u Indian for sure? Sad Indians like you react like this. Your personal interests mean so much to you? You mean to say people are taken care of when half the population is jobless? When 80% of the womenfolk are unemployed? When no woman can drive? Nobody can vote? Ordinary citizens of other countries can talk freely, can dress freely, can vote, can live their life peacefully than under the shadows of Religion and Tribes. Thanks, Allah has protected India from people like you! 3 0

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Quantcast Reply o Sami February 20, 2011 at 11:27 am

I have travelled to many countries. I have seen the conditions in which people live. I know how women are treated in many different parts of the world. You couldn’t be further away from the truth.The fact is you base your views on what you learn from media. Yes women should have proper and full rights.

But where are they treated with respect, fairness, with honour and resposibility? 0 0

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Quantcast * Wizarat February 20, 2011 at 2:12 pm

Lets do what’s good for Humanity and not just for the Ru;ers who misappropriated wealth of the People. Dignity is what its all about Rafiq 0 0

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Quantcast Reply 21. John February 19, 2011 at 9:51 am

Saudiwoman, Having lived in Riyadh for several years until 2000, think I can comment as follows:

There’s and old saying, “follow the money!”. Applying this idiom, who stands to gain and lose if the current Saudi political climate remains unchanged and who gains if it changes? If the one’s with the weapons (Government or Qassimi!) stand to lose after change, there will be a bloodbath. As you say, the useless Muttawa are now in employment ( I used to live in Fall compound and I remember the Islamic wannabes across the highway in “College”) but after change, unemployment or rather the lack of an income will cause even more trouble. Have “real ” education and “real” employment as part of the manifesto! Thanks for your brave insights. 0 0

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Quantcast Reply 22. Yasser Taima February 19, 2011 at 10:19 am

First of all, good luck to you, this family that took over Arabia by force has wrought havoc in the peninsula and region and must go. Now for some thoughts. I find it bizarre for someone to identify nationally with a family one doesn’t belong to. Imagine if I called myself Ben Aliite, or Mubaraki. What a weird way to denote one’s nationality. What happened to Najdi or Hijazi, or just Arabi? Now about this membership thing. Even though personally I had never gotten to develop an interest in Arabian society, it seems to me rather closed-minded to scrutinize some measure of belonging before a group has even had a chance to define itself. I trace ancestry back to Khalid Ibn Al-Walid, so I’m definitely Arabian by ancestry and Arab by nationhood. Arabians – look at Saudis, by which I mean descendants – define themselves by ancestry. Why should I be excluded? Lastly, human rights cannot be picked and chosen. It’s a take-it-or-leave-it proposition. One can’t talk about freedom and human rights if non-muslims, women, resident foreigner and gays do not enjoy equal rights. There’s no use fighting global trends. Arabia will modernize one day or another. The ruling family will have to relinquish power one day or another, very soon. Will it be under guillotines or with a dignified exit? It’s their decision. Given what they’ve already done, if I were one of them I’d fear the worst. The tragedy of Arab dictators is that they all are addicted to power like it was opium or crack. Withdrawal is devastating and the rush to use it peters out soon after every increase in dose, until the patient dies. So I suggest an amnesty to all Arab rules and their mukhabarat apparatuses, including anyone of the Saudi family who wishes to join: Ben Ali owns an island off the coast of Argentina, where they could all go and retire. Oh, don’t forget to make it short and sweet, like the pioneer Tunisians and Egyptians: Freedom! Dignity! Social Justice! ž1;ž5;¡0;7;!  3;ž5;5; 5;7;! Ÿ3;ž3;5; 4;7; 3;ž0;8; 5;5;Ÿ3;¡0;7;! Words that strike terror in any despot’s heart. 9 0

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Quantcast Reply * Apeon February 21, 2011 at 12:40 am

“power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely!” 0 0

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Quantcast Reply 23. TheBoilingFrog February 19, 2011 at 10:26 am

Hi Saudiwoman,

I’ve just stumbled across your blog today, I like to say that it’s a very good read. You may already be aware but it was mentioned in today’s Daily Telegraph in the UK.

www.telegraph.co.uk/journ...n-for-Western-powers.html 4 0

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Quantcast Reply 24. David February 19, 2011 at 10:37 am

I hope there is a real change-sadly you have to remove power from the brainwashing dictators-the religionists who hide behind a facade of respectability. Come on fellow men-give women equality, stop pretending you have no gay people, drinkers, gamblers and corruption. In order to progress, you have to rid yourselves of the brainwashing inflicted on you as children. That is very very hard especially with death threats for apostasy-from the sick evil monsters who have brutalized and repressed you. A secular state is the only way to freedom peace and happiness-remember religions are NOT based on truth- think about that- there is not one actual fact to back up the religionists. It’s all made up by evil old men- all religions. Unless you question religionists and their lies you will never be free-and it doesn’t take much to expose them. We are just animals evolved from slime. 14 2

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Quantcast Reply * Sami February 19, 2011 at 11:00 am

I agree people need to stand up and remove dictators and oppressionists.

ButI do not agree with you about what you said about religion. Religion is not evil and was not made by evil men. This shows your ignorance about religion. How ever, religion has been used by evil men to control people and have things their ways, religion has been used an easy way to get support from people and control people , as majority of people do not study or know the religion to any depth.

We need revolution to get rid of dictators. But evil is not just in dictators, even politicians, bureaucrats and administrations in democratic countries are evil, liers, bull shitting bastards. People always buy the same bull shit again and again, it amazes me.

Infact the evil men are those in power, no matter where! 2 2

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Quantcast Reply o TamZar2011 February 19, 2011 at 12:06 pm

I agree that religion can be not evil, but only when it is separated from politics. When it’s not a governing system. Attach religion to government and you get corruption. That’s for sure. 10 1

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Quantcast o sach February 20, 2011 at 2:39 pm

there are many religions in the world made by evil men. Almost all religions are responsible for 80% of the gender discrimination in the world. those who question religion has managed to get out of that delusion. Until saudis question their religion they wont get what they are demanding. Lets just think why would a man form a religion? why would a man lie to his ppl that he is a prophet and hold the only one truth in the world. A man can make such a lie to get political power, to sexually exploit women, to get wealth, to silence others’ views. Just wonder how many of them muhammed did 2 1

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Quantcast o Alicia February 20, 2011 at 4:34 pm

Sach, “Lets just think why would a man form a religion? why would a man lie to his ppl that he is a prophet and hold the only one truth in the world. A man can make such a lie to get political power, to sexually exploit women, to get wealth, to silence others’ views. Just wonder how many of them muhammed did.” Why do you think it was Mohammad (pbuh) that did the lying? Why do you not assume it was secularists who wanted to co-opt the power of prophethood that lied in his name? 1 0

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Quantcast * Apeon February 21, 2011 at 12:42 am

So! Where did the Slime come from? 0 0

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Quantcast Reply 25. TamZar2011 February 19, 2011 at 12:02 pm

It’s good to see people moving, finally, here as well. Wish you all the best 2 0

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Quantcast Reply * Sami February 19, 2011 at 9:45 pm

Goverments, administrators and politicians are corrupt and liers, whether with religion or without! Its same all over the world. 1 0

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Quantcast Reply 26. David February 19, 2011 at 3:30 pm

You don’t need to know anything about religions to judge their absurdity-it’s all made up. It is no more thruthful than Star Wars. I challenge anyone to produce a shred of evidence for the existence of gods, it is a nonsense forced upon us as children so we will not question what the adults tell us. Learn to love life and take responsibility and experience true happiness. We are just tiny animals on a tiny speck of dust in a very very big universe 8 1

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Quantcast Reply * Sami February 19, 2011 at 9:34 pm

Sorry! but you missed the point. In reply to what you said about religion being evil and was created by evil dictators. I said religion is not evil, and was not created by evil people.

I didn’t say anything about truthfullness of any religion.

Whether any religion is true or not is another matter, people can argue either way.

Its absolutely your own choice whether you believe in any faith or not.

The proof for the truth of any religion firstly or ultimately requires the proof of the existence of God. Can religious scholars prove that?

How ever, it makes sense to study or explore something before you make any comments.

In reply to politics and religion combination produces evil.

Well that depends, what is politics? lies. Politics with or without religion is no way an honest business.. Politicians any where in the world are liers, bull shitters, corrupt, unjust, power and wealth seekers, who do not give a second thought for people. The cause of wars and hatered are the leaders.

By the way the so called religious leaders are no better. Yes dictators too are guilty of the same.

Lastly I agree all people should live in peace and happiness. I think for this to happen, people have to show consideration and care for one another. People would have to always consider mutual interests not self interests (like the politicians tell us- which is greed). We should hate and negate all extremisms whether religion based, racism, nationalism or any other.

We are all humans. 1 0

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Quantcast Reply o sach February 20, 2011 at 2:41 pm

In reallity religion is a political tool. another mechanism to get political power something u’re country is very good at. 1 0

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Quantcast o sach February 20, 2011 at 2:42 pm

actually there is a political element in evry religion and religous element politics. If u’re asked or forced to believe something without any proof that my friend is political. 0 0

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Quantcast 27. richard bartlett February 19, 2011 at 3:31 pm

I too ‘stumbled’ upon this blog, and I’m very glad I did. Wonderful events, first in Tunisia, and then, unbelievably, in Egypt. It seems these tyrants are the inevitable losers in a strange game of poker. They have, in actual fact, a very lousy hand, but very deep pockets. All it takes is for the other players (the protesters) to keep raising the stakes, until those pockets are almost empty, and the tyrant starts looking for a way to cash up his chips, keep some of his ill-gained assets, and find somewhere safe to store them. As Van (the man) said……….keep on pushin’, keep on pushin’ ! 2 0

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Quantcast Reply 28. Husam Aldahiyat February 19, 2011 at 7:04 pm

The whole point of religions is that there’s no evidence. It’s called faith.

Anyway, it will be certainly interesting if things heat up in Saudi Arabia. I’d say it’ll produce the least predictable outcome as there are too many possibilities over there. But they should wait a little until at least the leaders in Lybia, Bahrain and Yemen are ousted. Less revolutions happening at the same time = more exposure and fun on TV :-) 0 0

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Quantcast Reply * Mr Wallace February 21, 2011 at 12:20 am

“The whole point of religions is that there’s no evidence. It’s called faith.” That’s what really bugs me about religion, there is no evidence that it’s true, yet that doesn’t stop many of the religionists (especially ones in the Islamic world) from trying to force religion on everyone else despite not having a shred of concrete proof that it’s true. 0 0

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Quantcast Reply 29. Kiara February 19, 2011 at 7:06 pm

Well… I knew a jordanian man who lives in Riyadh… I’m really getting to like him and we’re making plans to see each other personally!

Inshallah he’ll be a nice man to me… I believe this. He’s so gentle to me and very cute!

Let’s await!

About your blog: I really liked, it’s well written… I really pray for all the Saudi Women. I pray for God to give to all them, wizard and strenght to reach their liberty and a place in the Sun! 1 0

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Quantcast Reply * sach February 20, 2011 at 2:45 pm

kiara if u are a non muslim never marry a muslim according to muslim law. that is suicidal to a woman. just go and read this, alisina.org/married-to-a-muslim/ 2 1

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Quantcast Reply 30. Pearl February 19, 2011 at 7:43 pm

All the Arab country’s have brought in labor from the Philippines and other Asain countrys, None of you look at them as human, the abuse is a disgrace, until you people treat poor people who have left their home and family just to be able to feed them should not have to be abused and treated worse than the way we treat animals in America, you can treat them like humans, I lived in the Middle East for 10 years and it is shamefull. 14 0

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Quantcast Reply 31.

Pingback: Rights for women wanted says Saudi facebook page | Women's Views on News 32. Martin Sheridan February 19, 2011 at 10:22 pm

I am enormously impressed by both the intelligence of your writing and the courage of your convictions. What is unfolding across the Arab world of North Africa and the Middle East is truly historic. Please keep your reports coming on a regular basis. Your voice is wonderfully articulate. 5 0

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Quantcast Reply 33.

Pingback: Top Posts — WordPress.com 34. Janus February 20, 2011 at 8:43 am

Good luck with those demands. Because the claim will be that they are un-islamic, especially equal rights under the law for women. Of course getting equal rights for nonSaudis will be unthinkable. They will quote the koran to prove their assertions.

It will be interesting to see whether any Saudis have the courage to protest. Even more eye opening will be whether the self appointed Saudi royal family will use heavy weaponry and violence against any protesters.

The word is that Libya’s citizens are being machine-gunned. Hundreds are dead and wounded. I really can’t imagine how people will form democratic governments when they don’t exhibit any personal responsibility; when they believe that their own, personal rights are the only ones that count and the Hell with everyone else.

Good luck! You will need it. 0 0

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Quantcast Reply * Sami February 20, 2011 at 10:46 am

Islam poses no restrictions on womens rights. Infact Islam states and protects womens rights quite clearly.

What I don’t understand is why people blame Islam for the things that they see in so called Islamic countries. People don’t blame any other religion when things happen in non-Islamic countries.

The fact is there isn’t a single country which has Islamic government or Islamic laws. Like christian nations don’t have christian laws. People don’t blame christianity.

What people see is traditions and culture, and laws of the state not ISLAM. 0 1

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Quantcast Reply o sach February 20, 2011 at 2:59 pm

when it is crystal clear that women suffer under islam dont go posting this bullshit “islam does not restrict women and give them rights. “If u take any part of the world islamic countries are centuries behind in its treatment of women. Even in non muslim countries muslim women are subject to discriminative laws bcos that is the religous right of muslim men. you cant solve any problem by concealing the cause, u have to understand the root cause. Be bold enough to admit islam dosnt treat women right and to shout islam desperately need a reformation. 1 0

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Quantcast o Alicia February 20, 2011 at 4:04 pm

The reasons are myriad. but first, people do blame Christianity for abuses; example, the sexual molestation of children by catholic priests is (perversely) blamed on Christianity. So is the war in Iraq, depending on who you ask. Of course, the conservative movement in America is connected to conservative christianity which also advocates the subjection of women. So, people blame christian beliefs for that as well. Come to think of it, people blame Christianity for slavery too (it’s the reason many African-Americans are Muslim and not Christian)! But the simple answer to why people blame Islam for non-islamic beliefs is because muslims, clerics in particular, claim they are acting in accordance with Islam when they are abusing women and others. This leads to a related reason. As long as there has been religion there have been people trying to use it to co-opt the authority of God for their own purposes (I just read this in the NYT: Saudi officials have tried to appear unruffled. On Wednesday evening, Prince Nayef bin Abdel Aziz, the interior minister, invited a group of prominent intellectuals and journalists in Riyadh to discuss the recent turmoil. He struck a confident tone, saying that Saudi Arabia is “immune” to the protests because it is guided by religious law that its citizens will not question.). Powerful people become more powerful when they co-opt God’s message for themselves and when they assign false beliefs to others. I think of the American evangelists who profit tremendously spreading the message that God wants everyone to be rich or that God heals if you give them 100.00. These same people also gain by telling people that the “enemy” has satanic beliefs. In America it is very useful to spread the belief that Islam is the enemy so we will continue with the insanity of the longest war we have ever fought, after all , it’s our civilization that we are defending from barbarians (and alot of books and lecture tours are being sold too)!! When I look at what some islamic clerics say, it’s clear to me that it’s beneficial to them and their constituency, that women stay in a dependent position. Look what happened in the US! Women got the right to keep their children, to divorce, to support themselves, to run businesses etc! Men had to completely changed their lives and some are still mad about it an they are still fighting to get their “rights” back! A man may wield no authority in society but such a situation is tolerable if he can be the king/master at home. 0 0

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Quantcast 35. Jerry M February 20, 2011 at 1:34 pm

“The fact is there isn’t a single country which has Islamic government or Islamic laws. Like christian nations don’t have christian laws. People don’t blame christianity.”

This is a bit more complicated, many people in the West did blame the influence of Catholicism for the backwardness of places like Italy and Spain. As far as blaming Islam, countries like Saudi Arabia base their laws on their interpretation of Islam and Iran has a government run by clerics. Maybe it is not a very good version of Islam but it is Islam. 1 0

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Quantcast Reply 36. Wizarat February 20, 2011 at 2:14 pm

Saudiwomen It is pretty good what you all have embarked on and I wish you well. 1 0

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Quantcast Reply 37. Harry Guggen February 20, 2011 at 3:00 pm

Bed Bugs At The UN

dotsub.com/media/b5ee5ada...b0b-9916-e0896337ec4b/e/m 0 0

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Quantcast Reply 38. Human Being February 20, 2011 at 7:14 pm

Everyone deserves to live their lives in dignity and with the freedom to choose their own paths. When the ruling regime, whether it be dictatorial or democratic, suppresses the aspirations of the people one can only expect resistance. This may not happen overnight and quite frankly for a state like Saudi Arabia, may take years to attain.

What keeps most people/systems “in check” by the powers that be? Fear. It seems incredibly difficult for most people to shake this off as they are constantly reminded that an enemy is lurking and ready to threaten the status quo. A true revolution occurs when people stop living in fear. When this fear is overcome, there are no limits to what people can achieve.

May all people be free. May all people love one another and remember their origin, where they came from, and where they will return to. “When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.” (JH). 3 0

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Quantcast Reply 39. David February 20, 2011 at 7:16 pm

Real men accord equality and respect to women. In Saudi a woman cannot drive a car, because according to the Saudi foreign minister on a tv interview, a woman driving alone is likely to get raped. Islam treats women worse than animals. That is because evolution works at different rates and religionists have prevented progress-christianity is a piece of crap too. A bunch of sick old men in dresses, who force their lies on children. Religionists will rot in hell the same as everyone else- hell actually means ‘hole’ and is where we end up, in the ground. Dust to dust- we are material from the stars nothing more. Isn’t that beautiful? 2 0

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Quantcast Reply * Sami February 20, 2011 at 8:39 pm

Again you are missing the point. Islam does not in any way treat women they way you are assuming. Its the Saudi people. Like I said there is no answer to ignorance. Yes! I Agree majority of people have religion asserted on them from very birth. So they become too afraid to let go or think otherwise, or even search for the truth.

All religions are not the same, it’s up to you to search for the truth. You cannot say whether there is truth in anything without exploring it first. 0 0

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Quantcast Reply 40. Abdullah February 20, 2011 at 8:03 pm

I am afraid that if we give up our traditions and values, then we may face the same result in the following link:

www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/there...side_marriage_a_real.html 0 0

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Quantcast Reply * Human Being February 20, 2011 at 8:31 pm

Abdullah, after reading the article you cited, what stood out most to me is the following:

“What the data and scientific analysis does not do is make a moral judgement about the way people should bring up their kids. Clearly, millions of parents do a fantastic job in rearing children within a wide range of family types that don’t match the traditional nuclear model.”

I personally have friends who were born outside of the nuclear model and they are fully functioning human beings with the same basic aspirations most of us share.

From your statement, it sounds like you fear what may happen to others rather than focusing on retaining the values for yourself that you cherish. That is, if you believe that children should only be raised in marriage, then by all means get married and have children. This is your right. However, that should not distitle others from embracing a lifestyle or path that they also envision for themselves.

To give a similar analogy, a current topic of debate that is still ongoing in the West is the legalization of gay marriages. Providing the rights for gay people to marry does not take away the rights of heterosexual individuals to marry nor does it mean that heterosexuals who value a relationship with the opposite sex will suddenly become gay and seek a same sex partner. What it boils down to is providing individuals with the right to choose and to live their lives based on these choices.

We are all born free and maintaining that freedom is our birthright. 1 0

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Quantcast Reply * Seerwan Jafar February 20, 2011 at 11:15 pm

Yes, brother. The GCC and the rest of the Arab World and the other Muslim countries allow women to drive. Do u know how many bastard babies are born in cars in those Godless countries? (In case people might misunderstand, I am being supremely sarcastic). 0 0

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Quantcast Reply 41. Murtaza February 20, 2011 at 9:23 pm

There are no “Christian countries” today. While there are a few countries that may have a Christian majority, religion and governments are separated. Today, all people are equal under the law in western democracies. People who break the law in the name of their religion are prosecuted. Muslims try to break western laws all the time and oppress their women in the name of their religion. That does not fly if they are discovered.

Conversely, all islamic nations are ruled more or less by the laws of sharia and the most important document, the koran, considered to be the last word from God.

It is a fact that the koran states that men are superior to women and that women must obey or men can beat them. The oppression of women and other people is based on islamic religious teachings and it is justified by those teachings. So, the claim that islam gives women all sorts of rights, is patently untrue. In no Islamic nation, including the middle east, India, Africa, Malaysia, Indonesia, Turkey, and so on, do women have equal rights with men. That is because of Islam, not because of culture since all those nations have different cultures, but all muslims believe in the koran which is oppressive to women and nonMuslims. The koran teaches that muslims are superior to infidels and muslim men are superior to women. What can people expect but oppression if that is considered the word of God? Why would it be so bad to give up such “traditions and values” of oppression? Why is it that muslim males are so afraid of giving their women equal rights?

I hope that the youth bulge in the ummah will bring about democracy, but like many people I am very skeptical, if that democracy will be based on Islamic teachings, which are very discriminatory. 0 0

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Quantcast Reply 42. Uncle G February 20, 2011 at 9:25 pm

This blog is an excellent resource for those of us who can’t speak Arabic but are willing the downtrodden peoples of KSA, and the wider Middle East and Africa, to get rid once and for all of their awful, corrupt, violent, repressive governments.

Remember the importance of education and planning. They are the keys to the success of any revolution. All those people out in the streets of Egypt, Tunisia, Libya… it’s amazing, BUT: out in the streets they should be dressed identically (black clothing is easiest) and with their faces covered, women AND men! This prevents the security forces from tracking them and identifying them later. TV stations, palaces, and any kind of government building should immediately be targeted and taken over, occupied. Don’t stand around outside, get in there, use the phones and the photocopier for the cause, and shut down the government!

Those with cameras need to upload photos and footage to YouTube as soon as possible after it is taken. Use the zoom to get close-ups of police and military operatives, and their vehicle numbers and license plates, so that they can be tried and sentenced as killers and traitors one day. If they know this is happening, if they can see the camera flashes, they will be reluctant to act against you with lethal force.

Phone numbers and email addresses for AlJazeera, the BBC, CNN and other external, global media outlets need to be found NOW, in advance of any protests, and written down, and circulated widely for use ‘on the day’ by whoever can get through.

First aid training is vital to prevent loss of life. Nurses and doctors must pass on what they can IN ADVANCE, so that when the bullets fly (and fly they surely will) the damage can be limited and lives saved.

A strike by workers – including ‘guest’ workers from abroad – is crucial too, to shut down the infrastructure and economy, the ports and airports, and kick the rulers where it hurts them the most – in their bank accounts.

You must be careful: The KSA government is armed to the teeth and there have been reports already of KSA army/police working in Bahrain, even of them removing bodies in refrigerated trucks. Security vehicles with KSA license plates have been reported there.

They’re already worried, and a peaceful transition IS possible. But, prepare for the worst! Charge up your cameras and phones, stock up with supplies, educate your families and friends.

Freedom! Democracy! Equality! More of everything for everyone! 0 0

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Quantcast Reply 43. Abo Dohim February 20, 2011 at 11:05 pm

I think westerners should fell sorry for us because we don’t have their technology, and I hope they will transfer it to us. I look forward to see Rolls-Royce factory in Riyadh. (Sorry Mr Churchill)!! 0 0

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Quantcast Reply 44. George3 February 20, 2011 at 11:40 pm

As a western expat who has worked in the Middle East, & KSA in particular, I have been impressed by the non-violent determination that the protestors have bought to the confrontation with the entrenched regimes in the region. I believe that as the movement spreads, the same determination will be bought into play to prevent the actions of those groups who will wish to hijack events for their own ends. These groups include fanatics both from within & without who only want to see one regime replaced with another – theirs. Keep up the good work, your influence in helping people all over the world achieve true reform can only spread. 0 0

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Quantcast Reply 45. Mr Wallace February 20, 2011 at 11:56 pm

I’m glad that the Saudi’s want proper human rights for themselves, but my experience of the Middle East gulf countries makes me question what they actually deserve. In the gulf countries, many lazy rich Arabs hire workers from poor countries, take their passports away and abuse them – how much anger in the country is there about these abuses? Or are the Saudi’s only angry about the abuse they’ve suffered from their rulers? Do the citizens of such a society even deserve any human rights themselves when they don’t seem to show them to others? I don’t know. It’s hard to know how many Saudis approve of the way their country treats imported domestic servants and non-muslims. Plus two wrongs can never equal a right.

I also think the religious brainwashing is a problem. How can they have human rights and treat everyone equally regardless of their race, gender, religion, sexuality, etc if they want to follow a ‘literal’ interpretation of the 7th century Islamic legal system that discriminates against anyone who isn’t a hetrosexual Muslim male and prescribes execution for a whole heap of things including homosexual sex, adultery, blasphemy and even changing one’s religion. Those things aren’t even ‘real’ crimes – especially blasphemy and apostasy as it can’t even be proven that the creator God they believe in even exists in the first place.

I guess what I’m trying to say is good luck to them but I’m very skeptical about what the outcome may be. I think the whole country will need a change of the collective mindset to become an open democracy that respects free speech and human rights. It won’t come about by simply overthrowing the country’s rulers. If anything, overthrowing the Saudi royals could actually make things worse.

A K A Stone  posted on  2011-02-20   20:05:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Skip Intro (#1)

Monarchy. What a quaint old idea.

If you had a just good king. It probably wouldn't be that bad.

A K A Stone  posted on  2011-02-20   20:08:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: A K A Stone (#3)

If you had a just good king. It probably wouldn't be that bad.

Sure, one good king followed by 10 bad ones. It's never worked well going back to the Egyptian Pharaohs.

Skip Intro  posted on  2011-02-20   20:24:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Skip Intro (#4)

That is why I said "if".

We had one good president followed by 4 bad ones now.

A K A Stone  posted on  2011-02-20   20:27:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: A K A Stone (#5)

We haven't had a good president since TR.

Skip Intro  posted on  2011-02-20   20:31:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Skip Intro (#6)

I'm sure that was a typo as the R is next to the T. We all make mistakes.

A K A Stone  posted on  2011-02-20   20:33:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: A K A Stone (#7)

TR as in Teddy Roosevelt.

Skip Intro  posted on  2011-02-20   20:35:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Skip Intro (#8)

RR was great.

A K A Stone  posted on  2011-02-20   20:35:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: A K A Stone (#9)

He spent like a drunken sailor.

But he was funny and gave great press conferences and gridiron dinners.

Skip Intro  posted on  2011-02-20   20:36:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Skip Intro (#10)

Obamas defecits are larger then Reagans budgets. You need to get your facts straght.

A K A Stone  posted on  2011-02-20   20:37:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: A K A Stone (#11)

Obamas defecits are larger then Reagans budgets. You need to get your facts straght.

Who was talking about Obama? You said RR was the last good president. I say it was TR. Obama has nothing to do with it.

Skip Intro  posted on  2011-02-20   20:39:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Skip Intro (#12)

The deficits Reagan had were actually democratic congress deficits from when they double crossed him on spending cuts.

A K A Stone  posted on  2011-02-20   20:44:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: A K A Stone (#13)

The deficits Reagan had were actually democratic congress deficits from when they double crossed him on spending cuts.

Cap and trade, amnesty and record banking failures, plus a half and half congress that passed budgets below that asked for by Reagan.

zfacts.com/metaPage/lib/zFacts-Reagan-Not-Congress.png

"http://first-draft-blog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5ced53ef0148c7a28c4b970c-320wi"

Rek  posted on  2011-02-21   0:24:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Skip Intro (#1)

1932 Chevron discovers oil on the Arabian Peninsula.

1933 the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia formed.

When US Marines are sent in to protect the Kingdom....

LMFAO

mcgowanjm  posted on  2011-02-21   8:26:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Rek (#14)

The deficits Reagan had.....

and Note how ALL of theses Tyrants have been in power for 30 years.

See the connection?

I hope so. Becausem as the USEMpire collapses in real time, the domestic will get very hairy.

mcgowanjm  posted on  2011-02-21   8:28:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: All (#16)

ARAB UPDATE:

Lybian Freedom Movement now 160 miles from Tripoli.

Which means Tripoli should fall in the next 24 hours.

Uri Avnery:

"Viewed in retrospect, that was perhaps natural, considering that the Zionist movement was born in Europe toward the end of the imperialist era, and that it was planning to create a Jewish homeland in a country in which another people – an Arab people – was living.

The tragedy is that this attitude has not changed in 120 years, and that it is stronger today than ever. Those of us who propose a different course – and there have always been some – remain voices in the wilderness.

This is evident these days in the Israeli attitude to the events shaking the Arab world and beyond. Among ordinary Israelis, there was quite a lot of spontaneous sympathy for the Egyptians confronting their tormentors in Tahrir Square – but everything was viewed from the outside, from afar, as if it were happening on the moon."

mcgowanjm  posted on  2011-02-21   8:51:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: All (#17)

Sketchy reports of protesters in cities just outside Tripoli preparing to descent on the capitol have also come in. Issandr El Amrani is reporting that airports have been sabotaged in order to impede the arrival of mercenaries, that oil companies are preparing evacuations, and that at least one major oil port has been shut down.

mcgowanjm  posted on  2011-02-21   8:57:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: All (#18)

From Morocco to Pakistan.

Everything the USEMpire has tried to stop for the last 30 years, unfolding in front of our eyes:

Why Pakistan Cannot Release the Man Who Calls Himself Raymond Davis Sat, 02/19/2011 - 10:18 — Anonymous by: Shaukat Qadir

(Exclusive to ThisCantBeHappening!)

Islamabad--By now journalists everywhere (except in the US) have come to the conclusion that there is far, far more to Raymond Davis than is being revealed by the US or by Pakistani officials.

SHAUKAT QADIR retired as a Brigadier from the Pakistan infantry in 1999. He was the founder, vice president and, briefly, president of a think tank. He now divides is time between teaching, studying many subjects, including journalism, and baby-sitting his grandchildren. He was a regular writer for the late Far East Economic Review, and is an occasional contributor to The National in UAE and to Pakistan’s Express Tribune. http://www.thiscantbehappening.net/node/471

mcgowanjm  posted on  2011-02-21   9:02:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: mcgowanjm (#19)

Davis is a CIA agent: report

Excerpt:

Another report said Davis was hired on contract by the American intelligence agency and was not a regular staff.

Efforts were also underway to see whether a "blood money" deal can be arrived at under which the families of the two victims withdraw the charges against Davis in return for money.

Discounting his contention of self-defence, police in Lahore said Davis used excessive force as he fired 10 shots and even got out of his car to shoot dead one of the two men who was fleeing.

A third man was crushed when a speeding vehicle with American officials rushed to the aid of Davis overrunning the motorcyclist. Pakistani officials believe its occupants who have since left the country were from CIA

Fred Mertz  posted on  2011-02-21   10:26:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Fred Mertz (#20)

a "blood money" deal can be arrived at under which the families of the two victims withdraw the charges against Davis in return for money.

Update:

They've refused the 'blood money' deal.

Siddiqui family the same.

Wealthy have promisde to match any 'blood money' deal.

The attempts to get Davis released have been comical.

Further. Davis was caught in Punjab. Not an area controlled by Pres Zadari. And the 3 killed were ISI.

They release him now and they sign the Pakistan Gov't's death warrant.

mcgowanjm  posted on  2011-02-21   10:32:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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