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POWERFUL: Charlie Kirk's final speech delivered in South Korea 9/6/25 2026 in Bible Prophecy 2.4 Billion exposed to excessive heat 🔴 LIVE CHICAGO PORTLAND ICE IMMIGRATION DETENTION CENTER 24/7 PROTEST 9/28/2025 Young Conservative Proves Leftist Protesters Wrong England is on the Brink of Civil War! Charlie Kirk Shocks Florida State University With The TRUTH IRL Confronting Protesters Outside UN Trump Meeting The UK Revolution Has Started... Brit's Want Their Country Back Inside Paris Dangerous ANTIFA Riots Rioters STORM Chicago ICE HQ... 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The Greatness of Charlie Kirk: An Eyewitness Account of His Life and Martyrdom Status: Not Logged In; Sign In United States News See other United States News Articles Title: The Fundamental Difference Between Private and Public Unions Source: Dissenting Opinions URL Source: http://jwpegler.blogspot.com/2011/0 ... ifference-between-private.html Published: Feb 20, 2011 Author: jwpegler Post Date: 2011-02-20 13:42:24 by jwpegler Keywords: None Views: 16763 Comments: 29 I grew up in Detroit. I make a huge distinction between industrial worker unions like the UAW and Teamsters on the one hand and government bureaucrats unions like the NEA on the other hand. The NEA funnels compulsory union dues into political campaigns to essentially elect their own bosses. The politicians who benefit from this refuse to make any changes whatsoever in the horrible school systems no matter how bad they get. Milwaukee teachers earn on average for $100,000 a year in salary and benefits. What do we get for it? 32% of kids in Milwaukee never graduate high school. Many of those who do "graduate" are functional illiterates who can't read, write, or perform simple arithmetic. American cannot remain a prosperous country with our awful school system. This has to change. It will never change as long as the NEA and AFSCME own the Democrat Party. FDR himself was against government workers unionizing. He was right. Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest #1. To: jwpegler (#0) (Edited) Milwaukee teachers earn on average for $100,000 a year in salary and benefits that number is based on a false claim that Milwaukee teachers average $56k a year in salary. The actual average teach salary in Milwaukee is $41,000. see: http://www.indeed.com/salary/q-Teacher-l-Milwaukee,-WI.html For the entire state, average teacher salary is $49k, 21st in the nation. But information from the NEA shows that teacher pay has taken some hits over the years in Wisconsin. Since the 1997-'98 school year, average teacher salaries in Wisconsin rose 24.6%, the 44th highest increase among the states and the District of Columbia over that time period. Taking inflation into account, the teachers union estimates average salaries have decreased 5.7% in Wisconsin over the last decade, as compared with a 1.5% decline nationwide. http://www.jsonline.com/news/education/36860374.html Since January 3, 2011, Republicans have controlled the power of the purse. go65  posted on  2011-02-20   13:55:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #2. To: jwpegler (#0) What do we get for it? 32% of kids in Milwaukee never graduate high school. Many of those who do "graduate" are functional illiterates who can't read, write, or perform simple arithmetic. So then you expect teachers to solve all social/economic problems? Overall, though, given Milwaukee’s child poverty rate, income levels, andadult educational levels, the test scores found for Milwaukee are higher thanone would expect. The scores compare especially well with those cities thatmost closely resemble Milwaukee on these variables. These findings also suggest that the work of improving the educationalprospects for Milwaukee schoolchildren does not belong to MPS alone. The schooldistrict is in some respects already doing better than expected; what it mayneed most is appreciation for what it has done, a challenge to continue toimprove its performance, and perhaps most of all, for other institutions in thecommunity to do their part in alleviating the conditions of poverty, poor adulteducational attainment, and racial isolation that afflict the environment inwhich the schools operate. A Comparison Of The Performance Of The Milwaukee Public Schools And School Systems In Selected Other Cities, by Gerald W. Bracey You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand lucysmom  posted on  2011-02-20   13:55:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #3. To: go65 (#1) that number is based on a false claim... Its the only way he can make his case. You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand lucysmom  posted on  2011-02-20   13:58:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #4. To: lucysmom (#2) (Edited) So then you expect teachers to solve all social/economic problems? I expect a competitive marketplace to produce quality products. Any company that doesn't produce quality products either changes to do so or winds up out of business. The public schools are coercive government monopolies. They produce a lousy product and refuse change because their business and jobs are not a risk from competitors. I don't expect you to understand this, because you are not too bright. Americans are started to get it, including a fair number on the left (see the movie "Waiting for Superman" for evidence of this). "Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899 jwpegler  posted on  2011-02-20   14:03:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #5. To: go65 (#1) The actual average teach salary in Milwaukee is $41,000. Nope: Salary for Employer: Milwaukee Public Schools "Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899 jwpegler  posted on  2011-02-20   14:08:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #6. To: jwpegler (#4) I don't expect you to understand this, because you are not too bright. Americans are started to get it, including a fair number on the left (see the movie "Waiting for Superman" for evidence of this). "Are starting to get it?" Please! These arguments have been going on for more than half a century - I remember them from my own childhood. As for not too bright - well dude I don't have to resort to personal attacks to make an argument. What's wrong with education in the US is that all sides are more interested in who is right and proving their point than in cooperating to improve outcomes and actually caring about the children involved. Rather than waste time assigning blame this woman actually did something: Twelve years ago, the self-employed real estate agent stood before a class of 23 students at Brookfield Elementary in Oakland and told them she would pay their way through college if they would stay in school and hold onto their dreams. snip Her message resonated with the students because Brown, 54, lives in the same struggling neighborhood as the children do. She comes from rural Mississippi, and knows the value of hard work. She became a second mother to the children she came to call "her babies." She bought them shoes and food when they were needy. She took them on college campus tours and field trips to the country. Now, all but four of the original students -- 19 [2 of the original 22 were killed] in all -- are enrolled in college. They are at schools such as San Francisco State University, Georgia Tech, Clark University and Merritt College. articles.sfgate.com/1999-...t-oakland-merritt-college The school system that saw a 75% drop out rate didn't change to achieve these results. You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand lucysmom  posted on  2011-02-20   15:04:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #7. To: All (#0) Family Guy nails government agencies "Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899 jwpegler  posted on  2011-02-20   15:11:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #8. To: lucysmom (#6) well dude I don't have to resort to personal attacks ROTFLMAO. Typical leftist. All you do is personally attack me. You did it today TWICE. Once stating that I don't want the little person to earn a living and another stating that AIG and Enron are my kind of companies. Time to flip the BOZO bit on you. "Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899 jwpegler  posted on  2011-02-20   15:14:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #9. To: lucysmom (#6) because Brown, 54 She sounds like a generous lady. Good for her. There are a lot of bad teachers too though. There should be a way to deal with them. I'll add something else I haven't shared with anyone. My wife graduated from college last fall. She has a teaching degree. It is what she is passionate about. She loves kids. She will be a great teacher. She hasn't found a job yet. Being the middle of the school year makes it harder I suppose. I really hope she finds a job though. I'm not sure what all of these bills will accomplish. But something has to be done. I would like to see them go after public employees of the courts. They are assholes, all of them. There is this one named Carmen from Dayton Municipal court. She is a black lady. You ask her a question and she talks back at you real.....slow....talking......to........you........like.......you........are.......retarted. I asked her why my paper to go to court said date X and I was there on Date X but there was no record of me to be there. If I had the cunts last name I would post it. She is Carmen from dayton municipal court, Carmen from Dayton Municipal court, Carmen from Dayton municipal court, Carmen from Dayton municipal court. Fuck you cunt. A K A Stone  posted on  2011-02-20   15:21:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #10. To: jwpegler (#8) You did it today TWICE. Once stating that I don't want the little person to earn a living and another stating that AIG and Enron are my kind of companies. Please provide actual quotes with links because your memory differs substantially from mine. You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand lucysmom  posted on  2011-02-20   15:29:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #11. To: lucysmom (#10) You did it today TWICE. Once stating that I don't want the little person to earn a living and another stating that AIG and Enron are my kind of companies. Please provide actual quotes with links because your memory differs substantially from mine. That is pretty much what you said. I saw it too. A K A Stone  posted on  2011-02-20   15:33:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #12. To: jwpegler, lucysmome (#4) (Edited) he public schools are coercive government monopolies. They produce a lousy product and refuse change because their business and jobs are not a risk from competitors. I don't expect you to understand this. lucysmom is a perfect example of 'a lousy product', produced by the public school system, her limited knowledge is being theatened, she has another shot at understanding the realization of what's really going on, and she's throwing it away. She doesn't understand that this is not about giving her children the best education they deserve by qualified teachers, but about the money they demand to live in the lap of luxury, with the least amount of energy, and bringing in Union bullies, thowing her children, or anyones children, onto the streets, what the hell do they really care about it, they don't live in those homes. Her children, despite what she naivley thinks, are the last things they care about, they are just a tool these selfish pigs use to get what they want. jmho~ Murron  posted on  2011-02-20   15:43:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #13. To: Murron (#12) At least she can spell. Skip Intro  posted on  2011-02-20   15:47:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #14. To: A K A Stone (#9) She sounds like a generous lady. Good for her. There are a lot of bad teachers too though. There should be a way to deal with them. I don't deny that there are bad teachers and that they should be shown the door. The point I want to make is that everyone is so occupied blaming the other guy that the kids are lost in the shuffle. I wish your wife luck finding a job. I will be interested to hear what she has to say after she's been at teaching for awhile. I would like to see them go after public employees of the courts. They are assholes, all of them. This past year I've dealt with federal and state and local employees and found them all to be polite and helpful. Sears and a certain lawyer however... You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand lucysmom  posted on  2011-02-20   15:49:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #15. To: lucysmom (#14) I'm going to get one of those hidden cameras and get some of them on video some time. Then I will post it here with their full name. So when they google their name it will be result numero uno. A K A Stone  posted on  2011-02-20   15:51:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #16. To: A K A Stone (#9) She hasn't found a job yet. Being the middle of the school year makes it harder I suppose. I really hope she finds a job though. Tell her to look at private schools. She'll make nothing, but since she's passionate about teaching that shouldn't matter. Skip Intro  posted on  2011-02-20   15:52:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #17. To: Murron (#12) lucysmom is a perfect example of 'a lousy product', produced by the public school system, her limited knowledge is being theatened, she has another shot at understanding the realization of what's really going on, and she's throwing it away. She doesn't understand that this is not about giving her children the best education they deserve by qualified teachers, but about the money they demand to live in the lap of luxury, with the least amount of energy, and bringing in Union bullies, thowing her children, or anyones children, onto the streets, what the hell do they really care about it, they don't live in those homes. Her children, despite what she naivley thinks, are the last things they care about, they are just a tool these selfish pigs use to get what they want. I'd give up psychic readings if I were you. My children are grown, educated, and employed. You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand lucysmom  posted on  2011-02-20   15:55:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #18. To: Skip Intro (#16) My kids attend a private christian school. If she taught there it would save us some money on tuition, as in free. So that is a bonus. It is her decision not mine. A K A Stone  posted on  2011-02-20   15:55:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #19. To: A K A Stone (#9) (Edited) I'll add something else I haven't shared with anyone. My wife graduated from college last fall. She has a teaching degree. It is what she is passionate about. She loves kids. She will be a great teacher. People who have taken a serious look at this, like the Gates Foundation, believe that somewhere between 5% and 10% of current teachers need to be terminated. It's a small percentage, but they are dragging the entire system down. The problem is that the NEA and AFSCME owns the Democrat Party. Given the history of the last 30 or 40 years, it's obvious that nothing will change until that changes. Again, I'll take a Democrat idea (that the Gate's Foundation supports) -- turn every school into a Charter School. Give the Principal the authority to fire bad teachers and pay substantial bonuses to good ones (based on international test scores). If the Principal stinks, let the parents who have kids in the school fire him. If a specific Charter School doesn't improve, give the parents vouchers to send their kids to another school. This would go along way towards fixing the issues. "Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899 jwpegler  posted on  2011-02-20   15:58:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #20. To: jwpegler (#19) Sounds pretty reasonable. I think they should be run like in Germany. I think it is Germany anyway. Anyway the school money follows the child to the school of the parents choosing. A K A Stone  posted on  2011-02-20   16:01:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #21. To: jwpegler (#19) Again, I'll take a Democrat idea (that the Gate's Foundation supports) -- turn every school into a Charter School. Give the Principal the authority to fire bad teachers and pay substantial bonuses to good ones (based on international test scores). If the Principal stinks, let the parents who have kids in the school fire him. How do you handle the thug students and deadbeat parents? They're required to be in school but would rather be out on the streets and the parents could care less. Skip Intro  posted on  2011-02-20   16:02:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #22. To: Skip Intro (#21) (Edited) How do you handle the thug students and deadbeat parents? First, we can't design the whole system assuming that we are all exceptions. Most kids aren't thugs. Most parents aren't deadbeats. In my view, this is a major problem with the left in America. They look at 3% to 7% of the population who are the exceptions and create a system that makes the rest of us suffer. However, we do need to pay attention to the exceptions. Most countries don't mix all the kids up into the same classes by grade. They differentiate. Gifted students go into one program, mentally handicapped students go into another program, kids that aren't likely to go to college go into another program, etc. Germany distinguishes between students who are likely to go to college those who probably won't. The ones that probably won't don't waste their high school years in worthless film appreciation classes. They learn a trade that will help them find a job. A lot of kids become "thugs", "dropouts", or "druggies" because they don't see a future for themselves. They get bored or frustrated with school and take to the streets instead. Rather than having them show up everyday to do nothing, make them learn how to be auto mechanic, carpenter, or hair stylist. That's a big part of the answer. In the 1970s, the Democrat governor of North Carolina (Jim Hunt) created a magnate school program for gifted students. Why? Because the other group of kids that drop out out are the very smartest ones. They do so because they are bored. I was one of the bored kids in school. When I dropped out of all of my classes, my dad saved me by making me go to work in his gas station, rather than me letting do nothing. Yes, even if we do this there will still be some thugs. In the old days, parents sent their problem children to military school to straighten their butts out. We can do the same today. One size does not fit all. We need to help the kids who are good at math and science be good at math and science. We also need to help the kids who are good with their hands learn how to do something productive with their hands, like fix cars. The thugs can attend Boot Camp High. This is what most developed countries in the world do. They differentiate. Our government is one size fits all. That's another part of the problem. "Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899 jwpegler  posted on  2011-02-20   16:29:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #23. To: jwpegler (#22) Most kids aren't thugs. Most parents aren't deadbeats. Before you go any further I would direct you to schools like Dorsey High in LA. Dorsey High has been the next thing to a high security prison for the better part of 40 years because of the violence of the students towards the teachers. I do have personal knowledge of this, having known a number of Dorsey High teachers. A lot of kids become "thugs", "dropouts", or "druggies" because they don't see a future for themselves. They get bored or frustrated with school and take to the streets instead. Rather than having them show up everyday to do nothing, make them learn how to be auto mechanic, carpenter, or hair stylist. That's a big part of the answer. Now here we agree. I have argued for years that not everyone is college material, and in fact the vast majority of college students today would have been much better off financially had they learned a trade rather than go into debt and waste four to six years to get a B.A. that is worthless in the real world. Unfortunately, our society is geared towards sending everyone to college because it's considered a personal failure not to go. That's pure BS. A journeyman electrician or plumber will make far more than most Psych or Sociology B.A.'s ever will. Skip Intro  posted on  2011-02-20   16:41:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #24. To: Skip Intro (#23) I would direct you to schools like Dorsey High Most High Schools are not Dorsey High. "Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899 jwpegler  posted on  2011-02-20   16:56:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #25. To: Skip Intro (#23) Unfortunately, our society is geared towards sending everyone to college because it's considered a personal failure not to go. Sending everyone to college is certainly what Obama and many Democrats promise. It's wrong headed. It's not hard to find a good lawyer. Try finding a good auto mechanic. "Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899 jwpegler  posted on  2011-02-20   17:01:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #26. To: jwpegler, Skip Intro (#25) Unfortunately, our society is geared towards sending everyone to college because it's considered a personal failure not to go. Sending everyone to college is certainly what Obama and many Democrats promise. It's wrong headed. Lack of respect for people who do blue collar work is a factor too. You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you. Ludwig von Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand lucysmom  posted on  2011-02-20   17:44:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #27. To: lucysmom (#26) Lack of respect for people who do blue collar work is a factor too. I don't like the term "blue collar" because it's too broad. A finished carpenter or cabinet maker who can recreate a true old world experience through their craft is an artist. Should someone who repetitively screws lug nuts in tires on the assembly line make $64,000 a year in salary and benefits, plus time and half for overtime? I don't think so. The world doesn't think so either. I believe that one needs to make real effort to make good money. "Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899 jwpegler  posted on  2011-02-20   17:56:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #28. To: jwpegler (#5) Salary for Employer: Milwaukee Public Schools That link lists "median" salaries, not average. You need to look up the difference between average and median. Start here: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060816060423AADUd6a Since January 3, 2011, Republicans have controlled the power of the purse. go65  posted on  2011-02-20   18:14:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #29. To: go65 (#28) You need to look up the difference between average and median. ha ha ha. Trust me, I know the difference. That was one site that had some stats. Other sites have different stats. "Everything that can be invented has been invented."-- Charles Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office, 1899 jwpegler  posted on  2011-02-20   18:26:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest

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