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Title: 4umers making exescuses for Andrea Yates...SICK SHIT
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URL Source: http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=31121&Disp=12#C12
Published: Jul 27, 2006
Author: posters with comment from stone
Post Date: 2006-07-27 00:56:16 by A K A Stone
Keywords: None
Views: 3175
Comments: 25
Jury Finds Andrea Yates Not Guilty Of Murdering Her Children
Wednesday, July 26, 2006
HOUSTON — A jury on Wednesday found Houston mom Andrea Yates not guilty of murdering her five kids by reason of insanity.
The decision comes after the jury deliberated for three days in Yates' retrial to determine whether she was legally insane when she drowned her five kids in the family home's bathtub. Her 2002 murder conviction was overturned because of incorrect testimony by a witness.
It's expected Yates will be committed to a state mental hospital, with periodic hearings before a judge to determine whether she should be released. She would have been sentenced to life in prison if convicted of capital murder.
A capital murder conviction in Texas carries either life in prison or the death penalty. Prosecutors could not seek death during this retrial because the first trial's jurors sentenced her to life in prison, and authorities found no new evidence. Yates is charged in only three of the deaths, which is common in cases involving multiple killings.
Earlier in the day, jurors deliberating for a third day in the retrial asked to see a family photo and candid pictures of her five smiling youngsters. After about an hour of deliberations, they said they had reached a verdict. Attorneys were then called back to the courtroom.
The jury has been trying to determine if Yates was legally insane when she drowned her kids. Soon after arriving at the courthouse on Wednesday, it reviewed the state's definition of "insanity."
Texas law says someone can be found insane if, because of a severe mental illness, that person does not know the crime is wrong.
In Yates' first murder trial, in 2002, the jury deliberated about four hours before finding her guilty. That conviction was overturned on appeal. Yates, 42, has again pleaded innocent by reason of insanity in her second murder trial.
The jury earlier asked to review the videotape of Yates' July 2001 evaluation by Dr. Phillip Resnick, a forensic psychiatrist who testified for the defense that she did not know killing the children was wrong because she was trying to save them from hell.
Resnick told jurors that Yates was in a delusional state and believed 6-month-old Mary, 2-year-old Luke, 3-year-old Paul, 5-year-old John and 7-year-old Noah would grow up to be criminals because she had ruined them.
Jurors later asked to review Yates' November 2001 videotaped evaluation by Dr. Park Dietz, the state's expert witness whose testimony led an appeals court to overturn Yates' 2002 capital murder conviction last year.
Dietz, a forensic psychiatrist, testified in her first trial that an episode of the television series "Law & Order" depicted a woman who was acquitted by reason of insanity after drowning her children. But no such episode existed. State District Judge Belinda Hill barred attorneys in this trial from mentioning that issue.
On Tuesday, after jurors asked for the trial transcript involving defense attorney George Parnham's questioning of Dietz about the definition of obsessions, the judge brought the jury back into the courtroom.
The court reporter then read the brief transcript, in which Dietz said Yates "believed that Satan was at least present. She felt or sensed the presence." Dietz had testified that Yates' thoughts about harming her children were an obsession and a symptom of severe depression — not psychosis.
Earlier Tuesday, jurors reviewed the slide presentation of the state's key expert witness, Dr. Michael Welner, a forensic psychiatrist who evaluated Yates in May. He testified that she did not kill her children to save them from hell as she claims, but because she was overwhelmed and felt inadequate as a mother.
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
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#1. To: Mind_Virus (#0)
This woman is obviously insane, but I have to disagree with the nature of the verdict. I think we should have a verdict, Guilty But Insane, and the person should go to a home for the criminally insane for the same period of time they would go to a regular prison. No way that someone who would kill all of her kids should ever be allowed to go free in public - she can never be cured of something like that.
"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."
mehitable posted on 2006-07-26 14:13:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply #2. To: mehitable (#1)
I agree, me. Prison isn't the place for her.
Jethro Tull posted on 2006-07-26 14:17:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply #3. To: Jethro Tull (#2)
no, prison isn't the place for her, but unfortunately neither are the public streets, and I think she's going to end up being freed by some psychiatrist who thinks she's been "cured". then she'll go and do some other crazy thing. someone this crazy needs to be secured in a mental hospital for the rest of their lives.
actually prison wouldn't be a bad place for her husband, who's been telling us all what a "victim" his wife is.
"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."
mehitable posted on 2006-07-26 14:22:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply #4. To: mehitable. all (#1)
Could her psychotropic drugs have been the culprit here?
Andrea Yates — Causes of Psychosis Need to be Found and Treated Dan Stradford, President & Founder: http://AlternativeMentalHealth.com
Published March 20, 2002, Chicago Tribune Los Angeles — Few can find true sympathy for Andrea Yates. A Texas jury, perhaps understandably, could not forgive her.
The only thing more maddening than her act is the question of why she did it. And could it have been prevented?
The medical community clearly states it does not know what causes postpartum depression or psychosis. The treatment of choice is psychotropic drugs. Because such medication only masks symptoms, this means that the actual physical cause of this disturbed mental state nearly always remains untreated.
Whatever malfunction inside the body of Yates caused her insanity, a physical change she experienced long before the murders, it remained wrong with her right up to the final breath of the last drowned child and likely continued to wreak havoc with her as her guilty verdict was read.
Added to the unknown cause was the use of psychotropic drugs, which can have a side effect of violent impulses.
While a judicious use of psychotropics may certainly be necessary in some cases, to pretend that the patient has then been treated is simply false.
The undiscovered cause remains and continues to impact the drugged woman.
Any honest doctor knows this.
Postpartum women have been through a horrific time, exhausted from the birth, hormones out of whack, nutrients drained from the body, sleep deprivation, sometimes low thyroid conditions flare. Likely physical culprits abound.
Yet the physical cause of the problem is rarely found and commonly not even looked for with any real zeal. Nutritional abnormalities are hardly considered. Additionally, a number of tests and treatments exist that, often, only alternative doctors (and almost no psychiatrists) use.
Yates received standard treatment for postpartum depression. The results should raise public concern.
Is she responsible for killing her babies? The jury said yes; some experts think not. But for sure, if she would have been medically tested and prodded until the physical cause of her symptoms was found and really treated, besides drugging her, those babies could very well still be with us.
War - it's for the children
lodwick posted on 2006-07-26 14:23:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply #5. To: lodwick (#4)
Excellent points, loddie. No doubt she was on some kind of drug and those things can make you crazy. Very sad situation all around and no way to feel pleased at any outcome.
"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."
mehitable posted on 2006-07-26 14:32:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply #6. To: mehitable (#5)
Very sad situation all around and no way to feel pleased at any outcome.
From Columbine to Houston, to who knows where else, BigPharma is guilty of murder, imo.
War - it's for the children
lodwick posted on 2006-07-26 14:36:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply #7. To: Mind_Virus, christine, Zipporah, robin, Zoroaster, BTP Holdings, Arator, Brian S, A K A Stone, Bub, mugwort, bluegrass, Bill D Berger, FormerLurker, Uncle Bill, Dakmar, Flintlock, Neil McIver, tom007, aristeides, Burkeman1, Diana (#0)
However horrible the history, I think the jury came to the best verdict. We can't bring the kids back.
Now, maybe folks will pay attention to both mental illness; and the treatment of it. This was preventable. There's the ultimate horror.
SKYDRIFTER posted on 2006-07-26 15:39:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply #8. To: Mind_Virus (#0)
Like Bill Cosby used to say: "Keep on running that play 'til you get it right".
who knows what evil posted on 2006-07-26 15:44:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply #9. To: Mind_Virus (#0)
I don't know how she could be considered anything BUT insane.
Neil McIver posted on 2006-07-26 16:56:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply #10. To: Mind_Virus (#0)
As I understand it, the woman was stuffed to the gills on psychiatric drugs, and they're known to be associated with psychosis and murder/suicide.
Don't know what causes post-partum depression? Funny. Even primitive tribes have enough sense that when a woman is going to get pregnant, they make sure she is exceptionally well-fed. We could at least do the same. I'd bet money mal- nutrition is almost all of the problem.
"Benjamin Franklin was shown the new American constitution, and he said, 'I don't like it, but I will vote for it because we need something right now. But this constitution in time will fail, as all such efforts do. And it will fail because of the corruption of the people, in a general sense.' And that is what it has come to now, exactly as Franklin predicted." -- Gore Vidal
YertleTurtle posted on 2006-07-26 19:41:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply #11. To: Neil McIver (#9)
She is one of very few that I have seen that was obviously not in her right mind, unlike the Susan Smith's of the world that we usually see pleading insanity. I was glad to hear this verdict. The husband bears some responsibility for this though.
My hands are tied. The billions shift from side to side. And the wars go on with brainwashed pride, for the love of God and our human rights. And all these things are swept aside by bloody hands. Time can't deny and are washed away by your genocide. And history hides the lies of our civil wars.
I Don't Need Your Civil War--Gun N Roses
justlurking posted on 2006-07-26 21:37:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply #12. To: justlurking (#11)
The husband bears some responsibility for this though.
From what I've read about him, anyone could have lost it - pity she didn't take it out on him.
War - it's for the children
lodwick posted on 2006-07-26 21:41:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply #13. To: lodwick (#4)
Added to the unknown cause was the use of psychotropic drugs, which can have a side effect of violent impulses.
There can be little doubt that these drugs cause people to lose touch with reality as the rest of us see it. They do things that are unconsciable, like drowning 5 of your own children, or shooting all the kids at your school ... over and over ... the people doing these things are taking or have recently quit taking psychotropic drugs.
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds (smites) you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
Samuel Adams ... and I concur !
noone222 posted on 2006-07-26 21:42:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
Poster Comment:
Insane or not the BITCH should be killed. Some of the people here making exescuses for a murder is sicko thinking and shows a total lack of character and morals.
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#1. To: All (#0)
http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/latestcomments.cgi?Fm=apok&To=&SNSearch=+Go+&PN=
She's broken and needs locked up. I don't buy the idea she's "innocent" but I don't think she's anything but a fucked up middle class housewife who lost it one day and did something horrible. I actually kind of feel sorry for her. I feel sorry for her husband also.. He's supposed to be the "bad guy" in this. You know, implicitly, her actions are supposed to be the result of some failing on his part. Got news for them, in this day and age guy's don't "get" chicks pregnant. It don't work that way anymore. "Empowered" women take charge (and therefore responsibility) for themselves. We've removed any stigma associated with divorce or children out of wedlock. There's "shelters" and such things for women who are "abused".. Contraceptives.. Don't fucking cry to me about what big, bad Rusty drove her to do, I'm not buying it. He is an insensitive jerk, no doubt.. It's kind of a double standard though. On the one hand, I remember people losing their minds when he said he wanted a divorce and to remarry. Is he abandoning a broken woman he pledged to love, till death do them part, in her hour of need? Possibly. It is coarse and selfish.. Yes. On the other hand, we're all "equal" now, remember? So what if the shoe were on the other foot? Who would blame her for divorcing him in jail and moving on if he went nuts and destroyed her children? The whole thing is just incredibly pointless. I can't help buy just feel some pity for the whole, fucked up, lot of them.
Well, let's be fair about this. THe 4ummers have no fucking idea what they're talking about, but it so happens that they're right in this case, for all the wrong reasons. It's not Yates fault. She should still be executed, though. It's not a mad dog's fault that it is mad. We still kill the dog...
"Be a patriot and a hero. Torture and kill a cop, before they do it to you---because they will." Michael E. Kreca
Why isn't it Yates fault?
You think she chose to be crazy and to fuck her mind up?
"Be a patriot and a hero. Torture and kill a cop, before they do it to you---because they will." Michael E. Kreca
That sounds like exescuses she is making to get out of it. I think she willingly chose to stick her kids in the bathtub and hold them under. One after the other. I don't think anyone forced her to do anything. I don't think it is her husbands fault either. Jhoffa made good points on that aspect.
Why thank you..
She did.. When you think about it, it's so pointless. So avoidable. If she was losing it and couldn't cope anymore, couldn't take one more thing.. she could have picked up any telephone in the country, dialed 911 and told them she was going to drown her kids and someone would have come to help. That's all it would have taken.
"Be a patriot and a hero. Torture and kill a cop, before they do it to you---because they will." Michael E. Kreca
google that.
"Be a patriot and a hero. Torture and kill a cop, before they do it to you---because they will." Michael E. Kreca
Who force fed her those drugs? She chose to go take the pills. She decided to go to a doctor for help with feelings. Because someone chooses to medicate themselves is no exescuse. Besides how many other cases can you show me where someone taking these drugs murdered their children? If someone decides to deal with their problems with booze or whatever it is no different. Even if some dude in a white suit said here take this.
Her husband and the doctors. Read up on the case.
"Be a patriot and a hero. Torture and kill a cop, before they do it to you---because they will." Michael E. Kreca
She chose to see the doctor. Insane or not she should not be breathing. I think they should kill her by drowning her.
False. She was pretty far gone and her husband literally dragged her into the hospital.
"Be a patriot and a hero. Torture and kill a cop, before they do it to you---because they will." Michael E. Kreca
Ok...maybe your right. I still think she should be put to death. Maybe the first day they can hold her head under for 1 min, the next day 1 min 10 sec, the next day 1 min 20 sec...on and on until the bitch is dead. She murdered 5 kids. She needs to be dead like years ago.
Ordinarily, I'd agree that she deserved the death penalty, because as I pointed out earlier, mad dogs must be processed and deleted, but in this case, since she killed her own children, I'd be inclined to support life imprisonment.
"Be a patriot and a hero. Torture and kill a cop, before they do it to you---because they will." Michael E. Kreca I'm not making excuses, just observations. There's no question she killed. What's important is *why*. Bottom line, any woman that kills her own children, possibly excepting extreme cases where the alternative is a cruel, painful, certain and imminent death, is not right in the head. Woman by nature love their children. Should she be killed? I'm glad I don't have to judge that.
I saw your comment. I wasn't talking about you on this post. There was a couple of others I was. I probably go a little overboard on talking about multiple drowning her. It just makes me sick that she will probably be released and get away with killing her kids. The kids are dead and she may walk free. That makes me very sad and it is a miscarriage of justice in my opinion. I wouldn't want to be on the jury and condem someone to death. But I can talk about it on a forum.
That's a pretty blatent tag line there CO.
You don't find it humerous?
"Be a patriot and a hero. Torture and kill a cop, before they do it to you---because they will." Michael E. Kreca No, not at all.
It's not just a coarse comment.. There's a story behind it. The Readers Digest version: Michael E. Kreca used to post on LF, and claimed he'd been targeted and abused at the hands of law enforcement.. Is it true? I dunno.. All I know is he was recently shot to death by the cops. Seems logical to assume that his story either had merit or he went looking for a fight, and found it. Sad either way.
Michael E. Kreca used to post on LF, and claimed he'd been targeted and abused at the hands of law enforcement.. Is it true? I dunno.. All I know is he was recently shot to death by the cops. Okay I read about him but didn't remember the name. Yes, it's sad. People getting killed is generally not funny. There are times when it's warranted such as self defense, due-process executions, or sound military activity but in my book it should never be gleefully celebrated. When it's done, it's done because it's called for and morally required. Anything less puts you on the same level as Bush and too many other warmongers.
I always thought CO adopted the tag as a memorial of sorts.. Of course, I could be mistaken.
When I first read Kreca's comments on Liberty Forum, and later learned that he had been murdered by the police, I thought, "oh, the irony of it all." I found the quotation amusing. Perhaps I just have a macabre sense of humor. As for the avatar, that's courtesy of Jethro Tull's dear friend, Thomas Chittum, who disappeared into his bunker three years ago, and hasn't been seen since.
"Be a patriot and a hero. Torture and kill a cop, before they do it to you---because they will." Michael E. Kreca
#2. To: A K A Stone (#0)
#3. To: A K A Stone (#1)
#4. To: continental op (#3)
It's not Yates fault. She should still be executed, though.
#5. To: A K A Stone (#4)
Why isn't it Yates fault?
#6. To: continental op (#5)
You think she chose to be crazy and to fuck her mind up?
#7. To: A K A Stone (#6)
Jhoffa made good points on that aspect.
#8. To: A K A Stone (#6)
I think she willingly chose to stick her kids in the bathtub and hold them under. One after the other.
#9. To: A K A Stone (#6)
Andrea Yates" + Effexor + Remeron
#10. To: All (#9)
#11. To: continental op (#9)
#12. To: A K A Stone (#11)
Who force fed her those drugs?
#13. To: continental op (#12)
#14. To: A K A Stone (#13)
She chose to see the doctor.
#15. To: continental op (#14)
She was pretty far gone and her husband literally dragged her into the hospital.
#16. To: A K A Stone (#15)
#17. To: A K A Stone (#0)
Insane or not the BITCH should be killed. Some of the people here making exescuses for a murder is sicko thinking and shows a total lack of character and morals.
#18. To: Neil McIver (#17)
#19. To: continental op (#16)
#20. To: Neil McIver (#19)
#21. To: continental op (#20)
#22. To: Neil McIver (#21)
#23. To: Jhoffa_ (#22)
#24. To: Neil McIver (#23)
#25. To: Neil McIver, Jhoffa (#23)
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