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Title: Exclusive: US Empire Will Fall Due To Lack Of Faith, Not Finances Or War, Author Warns
Source:
RawStory
URL Source: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/ ... g-washington-author-tells-raw/
Published: Jan 27, 2011
Author: Nathan Diebenow
Post Date: 2011-01-27 12:55:52 by Brian S
Keywords: None
Views: 128914
Comments: 176
As many in the American empire longingly talk of "recovery" from the most devastating economic condition since the Great Depression, others have begun thinking in a very different direction, urging fellow citizens to prepare for the worst. Dmitry Orlov, author of "Reinventing Collapse: The Soviet Example and American Prospects," is one of the latter. Soon, he told Raw Story in an exclusive interview, Americans will "stop expecting anything of Washington," turning the US into more of a "banana republic" than a super power. Orlov, who witnessed the Soviet Union's collapse from within, lamented that the American empire's condition is so severe there is "absolutely nothing" most can do to keep it alive or hasten its demise. "Basically the people in this country are powerless," he suggested. "So they should probably focus on things closer to home." Orlov, born in born in Leningrad (now known as Saint Petersburg), moved to the United States at age 12 and became an engineer. In his book, he detailed his experiences with the Soviet collapse on numerous visits to Russia in the late 1980s, early 1990s. He covered similarities between the two superpowers in their twilight and suggested ways for Americans to adapt to their new post-empire environment. Amid horrid unemployment and a national deficit soaring past World War II levels, Orlov theorized that the US empire would eventually collapse -- not from finances or war, but from a lack of faith in the system. It would happen over three overlapping stages, he said: financial, political and commercial. "We're fairly far along in the financial collapse trajectory while political collapse has now really only started with the last election," he said. By the next election cycle, Orlov figured, the United States would be in the throes of a "banana republic" such that the voters would exchange one inept political party for another inept political party while expecting different results. While nothing constructive would result from this behavior, he said, the next meaningless shift in 2012 may be the last straw. "That will run its course where people walk away in disgust and stop expecting anything of Washington," he said. Environmental and social catastrophe "People will lose access to various products that they need," Orlov said. Much has already collapsed in the commercial sphere. Vacant strip malls and deserted grocery stores clutter the landscape in many parts of the country. "You also have people whose only source of food is food stamps," he said. "That's becoming predominant in a lot of communities." But let's not fail to mention an overemphasis on military expenditures and unused industrial areas, Orlov insisted, describing them as mis-investments made by both empires. "To this day, the former Soviet Union is littered with abandoned or semi-abandoned industrial sites just as the United States is," he noted. By Orlov's estimation, the US military will never voluntarily quit being the world's largest oil consumer and largest polluter. Moreover, any plans suggested to the military to end its oil dependency in 30 years are an act of "desperation," he said. "They have set their hair on fire and are running around in circles. That's their drill right now," Orlov quipped. But what really seemed to rock the Soviet empire to its foundations, Orlov explained, was devastation of Russia's physical environment as a result of industrialization. The prime example was the nuclear reactor accident in Chernobyl in 1986. To this day, the site continues to produce very high levels of childhood leukemia, cancers and other diseases. "[The Chernobyl accident] caused a great number of people, including people in some positions of authority, especially in the scientific community in Russia, to seriously mistrust the government, and [they] started doing their own research, making their own observations that disquieted them even more," Orlov explained. Former Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev's "glasnost" policy allowed enough truth out to undermine the remaining Soviet authority to the point where those who operated the system lost interest in perpetuating it, Orlov said. While likening the Chernobyl disaster to the Deepwater Horizon accident in the Gulf of Mexico on his blog, Orlov said that he expects no hearts of American leaders to bleed over their destroyed environment any time soon. "I don't see the elite in the United States at quite that level of desperation quite yet -- probably because they are a little bit less attuned to what's going on," he said. "They are a little bit more sheltered from the public at large. But that might change."
As the financial collapse runs its course, Orlov said, people can expect some imports to be cut off. Energy, above all cheap oil, will be the most important import to dry up. Transportation fuels will also become scarce, bringing on the next stage of social collapse: the commercial sphere, he noted.
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#12. To: Capitalist Eric (#11)
How would you know, you pathetic dicklicker?
America's wealth disparity makes America very USSR like since all the power and wealth resides in the top 1%.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
You 2 deserve each other.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
If you think you are not getting your fair share, educate yourself and make yourself more marketable to employers. Everyone else can do the same. Government has no place in assigning wealth quotas.
Well, [war's] got to do something for attention, his multiple personalities aren't speaking to him any more, and his imaginary friends keep finding excuses not to come over.
Unless the history reels are wrong, How people can be romantic about communism is a mystery to me. Communism was supposed to be a better form than religion, They just made new flags up and killed ,...just like Religions do.
You're right. Communism is the religion of the far left. To them, it has all the attributes, including ethics and morality.
Well, [war's] got to do something for attention, his multiple personalities aren't speaking to him any more, and his imaginary friends keep finding excuses not to come over.
Employers???? C.E.O.’s of the largest American companies earned an average of 42 times as much as the average worker in 1980, but 531 times as much in 2001. That's a rip off and with the use of the threat of off shoring the American employee is forced to shut up and take what ever crumbs are offered or else. No wonder Americans live in stress and fear and you get workplace massacres - a record of them happened under Bush.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
But because of Obama there are no jobs right? You don't put much thought into these arguments, so you end up with "the unemployed are too lazy to take the jobs that aren't there because of Obama"
Since January 3, 2011, Republicans have controlled the power of the purse.
Communists use lies and deception. I see the same theme with the Watermelon Earthers.
Since January 20, 2009 what has Obama done to bring back jobs shipped overseas? Reduced the tax burden? No. Reduced the threat of expensive nuisance litigation? No. Punished those companies that sell or share technology with foreign competitors? No. What has your boy done to put America back to work. Nothing. Communists want a uniform, impoverished society. All the better to tyrannize over.
Well, [war's] got to do something for attention, his multiple personalities aren't speaking to him any more, and his imaginary friends keep finding excuses not to come over.
That's a rip off and with the use of the threat of off shoring the American employee is forced to shut up and take what ever crumbs are offered or else. Barry's had more than two years to address the problem. Done nothing. Zip. Zilch. Nada.
Well, [war's] got to do something for attention, his multiple personalities aren't speaking to him any more, and his imaginary friends keep finding excuses not to come over.
Communism is an infantile mindset. That's why the immature of the population fall under its spell.
Well, [war's] got to do something for attention, his multiple personalities aren't speaking to him any more, and his imaginary friends keep finding excuses not to come over.
Its rumored Zero is going to appear on National teleprompter sheeple vision and urge Congress to gungrab in the next weeks.
Given that we saw more private sector jobs created in the last 12 months than in the 8 years of Bush, facts aren't your friend.
Since January 3, 2011, Republicans have controlled the power of the purse.
Since January 3, 2011, Republicans have controlled the power of the purse.
December 2010: Any other dumb questions?
Since January 3, 2011, Republicans have controlled the power of the purse.
You can post all the slanted graphs you want, but media matters action org is a partisan organization. Everything they post is going through the spin. *FAIL*
Well, [war's] got to do something for attention, his multiple personalities aren't speaking to him any more, and his imaginary friends keep finding excuses not to come over.
So Paul Ryan and Michelle Bachmann are communists? http://factcheck.org/2011/01/factchecking-the-gop-response/ Since January 3, 2011, Republicans have controlled the power of the purse.
Those charts are based on raw numbers released by the BLS. You can validate them here: http://www.bls.gov/ Of course, if you want to claim a massive conspiracy be my guest, that's the common refrain of Conservatives who lack facts to support any of their arguments.
Since January 3, 2011, Republicans have controlled the power of the purse.
Factcheck.org is another Obama gentle spin cycle. You really need to stay away from the pages that only tell you what you want to hear.
Well, [war's] got to do something for attention, his multiple personalities aren't speaking to him any more, and his imaginary friends keep finding excuses not to come over.
Jan 26 Volunteer rate declines to 26.3% for the year ending in September 2010 The volunteer rate fell by 0.5 percentage point to 26.3 percent for the year ending in September 2010. About 62.8 million people volunteered through or for an organization at least once between September 2009 and September 2010. The volunteer rate in 2010 was similar to the rates in 2007... What conspiracy? Spin is as natural to partisans as falling down is to a toddler. From your link, the numbers don't support a beneficent Barry Hussein, dispensing more than leaf-blower jobs to illegal criminals pouring over the border.
Well, [war's] got to do something for attention, his multiple personalities aren't speaking to him any more, and his imaginary friends keep finding excuses not to come over.
Barry's had more than two years to address the problem. Done nothing. Zip. Zilch. Nada. I don't support many of President Obama's policies but it seems to me in your reply you agree with me that the 1% that owns 99% of the wealth uses fear and intimidation against American workers via threats of offshoring, etc. and it is not a case that Americans of the 99% class are lazy and don't deserve to have a greater share of the wealth. Now that it seems you acknowledge this as a problem we need to apply a solution - your solution is to do more of the same policies that got the rich more of the wealth from the rest of the 99% of the population in the hopes that it will eventually trickle down. That clearly did not happen and won't happen. The other way is to tax the rich at higher levels and re-invest in sustainable American jobs. There is a third option and that is for the 99% of the American population to use their 2nd amendment rights and take back the wealth from the 1% of the population who who stole it from them. There is tyranny of govt of course but you water carriers for the oligarchs masquerading as "conservatives" forget that there is also tyranny of the rich on the poor.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
go65, please continue to "post all the slanted graphs you want", per Rudgear. It seems the right wing Conservative Republicans have not mastered spreadsheet charts and are at a disadvantage.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
Solutions include getting rid of the Federal Reserve, securing the border with Mexico, simplifying the tax code, taking government out of education and turning back to the states. That's how much of a water carrier of oligarchs I am. You don't know me. You lash out because you keep getting your head handed to you,
Well, [war's] got to do something for attention, his multiple personalities aren't speaking to him any more, and his imaginary friends keep finding excuses not to come over.
Translation: keep posting gentle spin cycle for the benefit of the uniformed. Left wing Democrats have not mastered reality or challenged their deepest held prejudices and are at a disadvantage.
Well, [war's] got to do something for attention, his multiple personalities aren't speaking to him any more, and his imaginary friends keep finding excuses not to come over.
EXCELLENT. Deserves repeating!
"There will be no more money when the U.S. dollar has no value, until that time we can keep printing more." -- go65, LF's answer to Ben Bernanke --
I love how they defeat their own argument with every post they make.
Well, [war's] got to do something for attention, his multiple personalities aren't speaking to him any more, and his imaginary friends keep finding excuses not to come over.
Your solutions are fanatsy right wing kookery. I know of no nation of the industrialized world (including ones that are doing well like Germany) that does not have a central bank of some sort. I know of no nation on earth that is ahead of the USA in educational reulst who has a decentralized education system. In places where t he govt i snot involved in education you can find them in Pakistan and Somalia. I don't see how states rights will make America's wealth gap better. Last time we had issue of states rights we had a slave owning aristocracy. I am all for controlling immigration and I am against NAFTA so we can agree on that but Mexican immigration was a result of business owners who want no govt oversight - right? - wanting cheaper unregulated labor. So now that I destroyed your talking points I see you still have not refuted and in fact are still in agreement that the wealth gap is not good and in fact hurting America. That's actually a big deal because Republican politicians have been on record calling Americans lazy.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
Why do you fear spreadsheets?
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
go65 provided a graph proving his point and you guys have not. You lose. Also, the information in those graphs are not biased. We did not lose as many jobs after the stimulus package - and we did lose those jobs before the stimulus package. Why do you deny this fact as a 'left wing plot'? You guys have not been able to defend any of your positions with actual facts/numbers/empirical evidence.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
We did quite well for over a 130 years without a central bank. Let the parameters of education be tested in 50 different states. The single imposed indoctrination of the left has produced one generation of illiterate fools after another for the last 50 years. Mexico is getting rid of it's undesirables by sending them north and pumping up their economy at our expense while doing so. This isn't an immigration policy; its an invasion of a hostile foreign army. You haven't refuted anything. As for politicians and laziness, Democrats and Rino's both pay able-bodied people to sit on their asses and feel sorry for themselves over the past instead of telling them to prepare for their future. Trouble is, most welfare types don't want a future you have to work for. They want a free ride.
Well, [war's] got to do something for attention, his multiple personalities aren't speaking to him any more, and his imaginary friends keep finding excuses not to come over.
Translation: You are an idiot. I work with spreadsheets daily. Its the info you left wingers put into them that I object to.
Well, [war's] got to do something for attention, his multiple personalities aren't speaking to him any more, and his imaginary friends keep finding excuses not to come over.
Stop holding up information of disrepute as definitive. You post partisan spin and demand it be taken as factual.
Well, [war's] got to do something for attention, his multiple personalities aren't speaking to him any more, and his imaginary friends keep finding excuses not to come over.
LOL! It is clear to me for some time now that the right wingers engage in "truthiness" which is a "truth" that a person claims to know intuitively "from the gut" without regard to evidence, logic, intellectual examination, or facts. That is why you say stuff like "We did quite well for over a 130 years without a central bank" - a truthiness assumption - and not know of these episodes in American history: Panic / Depression of 1819 Panic / Depression of 1837 The end of the Second Bank of the United States had produced a period of runaway inflation, but in May 10, 1837 in New York City, when every bank began to accept payment only in specie (gold and silver coinage), forcing a dramatic, deflationary backlash. The Panic was followed by a five-year depression, with the failure of banks and then-record-high unemployment levels. Panic of 1873 aka Long Depression aka Great Depression of 1873–79 Panic / Depression of 1893 (Until the Great Depression, the Panic of '93 was considered the worst depression the United States had ever experienced.) Panic / Depression of 1896 Panic / Depression of 1907 Panic / Depression of 1910–1911 Great Depression 1929
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
You can't claim it to be so without your counter chart. Then the two can be compared - including sources - and we can see who is correct. You don't do that - you just dismiss it because your hand is weak.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
The effects of most of those recession/depressions were localized and had varying degrees of severity. Centralized banking has only ensured the entire nation feels the pinch equally hard. FDR multiplied the Great Depression ten fold by signing the Hawley-Smoot tariff act. He was another big centralization cheer leader.
Well, [war's] got to do something for attention, his multiple personalities aren't speaking to him any more, and his imaginary friends keep finding excuses not to come over.
No. We were agrarian based in the past so no one starved to death by being poor living on a subsistence level when the economic effects were wide ranging. There was a reason people were barefoot and their clothes had patches in those old pictures you see.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
4Q GDP numbers are out today, here's more data to make Rudgear's day: Since January 3, 2011, Republicans have controlled the power of the purse.
truthiness.
Since January 3, 2011, Republicans have controlled the power of the purse.
Well, [war's] got to do something for attention, his multiple personalities aren't speaking to him any more, and his imaginary friends keep finding excuses not to come over.
Comments (52 - 176) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latesthe averages about 2 posts for every response he gets.
#13. To: jwpegler, lucysmom, Ibluafartsky (#10)
Joseph Stalin, Nicolae Ceauescu, Mao Zedong, Fidel Castro, Pol Pot, and countless others... History is very clear on this. Very clear.
#14. To: Ibluafartsky, Capitalist Eric (#12)
he averages about 2 posts for every response he gets. How would you know, you pathetic dicklicker?
#15. To: Godwinson (#13)
America's wealth disparity makes America very USSR like since all the power and wealth resides in the top 1%.
#16. To: lucysmom (#7)
Gandhi was a commie because he wanted Indians to determine their own fate, not the British.
Most first event/emergence communist overthrows of nations goobs,kings etc,
begins with violence and ends with Millions getting slaughtered,...and I mean,...millions.
Unless these people are secret/open chaos/malthusians.
#17. To: Parrot with speed dial (#16)
#18. To: Rudgear (#15)
If you think you are not getting your fair share, educate yourself and make yourself more marketable to employers. Everyone else can do the same. Government has no place in assigning wealth quotas.
#19. To: Rudgear, godwinson (#15)
If you think you are not getting your fair share, educate yourself and make yourself more marketable to employers. Everyone else can do the same. Government has no place in assigning wealth quotas.
#20. To: Rudgear (#17)
You're right. Communism is the religion of the far left. To them, it has all the attributes, including ethics and morality.
They are like a virus which spreads resulting in complete violent madness.
They cheer to see people who have paid for their own land,...or own it via historic inheritance.
so ya,...in the USA,...landowners pushed off because of commie EPA,...or some fucking newt or smelt in the creek.
This is Russian/Chi Com communism where the state throws you off the land and will kill you if you are caught sneaking back onto it.
Americans would be horrified if they saw the maps the UN has to relocate and allocate land distribution.
Recent Global orgy in Cancun boasted about removing people off the land as an imperative.
#21. To: go65 (#19)
Since January 3, 2011, Republicans have controlled the power of the purse.
#22. To: Godwinson (#18)
#23. To: Parrot with speed dial, Godwinson, Go65 (#20)
#24. To: Rudgear (#21)
#25. To: Rudgear (#22)
(Edited)
Barry's had more than two years to address the problem. Done nothing. Zip. Zilch. Nada.
#26. To: Parrot with speed dial (#24)
Its rumored Zero is going to appear on National teleprompter sheeple vision and urge Congress to gungrab in the next weeks.
#27. To: Rudgear (#21)
(Edited)
What has your boy done to put America back to work.
#28. To: go65 (#25)
#29. To: Parrot with speed dial, godwinson, rudgear (#20)
Communists use lies and deception.
FactChecking the GOP Response
Ryan and Bachmann made two new false claims, and repeated other talking points, in their responses to the president's State of the Union address.
We fact-checked President Obama’s State of the Union address, but what about the Republican response speeches? We found two new claims that we haven’t covered before:
In the official response, Rep. Paul Ryan said that "trust in government is at an all-time low now that the size of government is at an all-time high." He’s wrong on both counts. Trust has been lower, and government has been larger, in the past.
In her own rebuttal to Obama, Rep. Michele Bachmann said that the bailout cost "$700 billion." The net cost actually is estimated to be much less — $25 billion, according to the Congressional Budget Office.
In addition, the two Republicans repeated several false and misleading charges we’ve already written about. Our readers will be familiar with many of them, such as claims that the stimulus didn’t create jobs (it did), that the health care law hurts job growth (experts say the impact will be small), and that "16,500 IRS agents" will enforce that law (that’s based on a flawed, partisan analysis).
#30. To: Rudgear (#28)
You can post all the slanted graphs you want, but media matters action org is a partisan organization. Everything they post is going through the spin.
#31. To: go65 (#29)
#32. To: go65 (#30)
Jan 27 In December 1,483 mass layoffs affected 137,992 workers, both down from November In December employers took 1,483 mass layoff actions involving 137,992 workers. Layoff events decreased to its lowest level since April 2008. Annual totals for 2010 events and initial claims declined from record levels reported in 2009.
#33. To: Rudgear, go65 (#22)
(Edited)
That's a rip off and with the use of the threat of off shoring the American employee is forced to shut up and take what ever crumbs are offered or else.
#34. To: Rudgear, go65 (#28)
You can post all the slanted graphs you want
#35. To: Godwinson (#33)
#36. To: Godwinson (#34)
#37. To: Rudgear (#36)
Translation: keep posting gentle spin cycle for the benefit of the uniformed. Left wing Democrats have not mastered reality or challenged their deepest held prejudices and are at a disadvantage.
#38. To: Capitalist Eric (#37)
#39. To: Rudgear, go65 (#35)
Solutions include getting rid of the Federal Reserve, securing the border with Mexico, simplifying the tax code, taking government out of education and turning back to the states. That's how much of a water carrier of oligarchs I am. You don't know me. You lash out because you keep getting your head handed to you,
#40. To: Rudgear, go65 (#36)
Translation:
#41. To: Rudgear, Capitalist Eric, go65 (#38)
I love how they defeat their own argument with every post they make.
#42. To: Godwinson (#39)
(Edited)
#43. To: Godwinson (#40)
#44. To: Godwinson (#41)
#45. To: Rudgear, go65 (#42)
We did quite well for over a 130 years without a central bank.
#46. To: Rudgear, go65 (#44)
Stop holding up information of disrepute as definitive. You post partisan spin and demand it be taken as factual.
#47. To: Godwinson (#45)
#48. To: Rudgear (#47)
(Edited)
The effects of most of those recession/depressions were localized and had varying degrees of severity.
#49. To: Godwinson, Rudgear (#46)
#50. To: Godwinson, rudgear (#41)
Why do you deny this fact as a 'left wing plot'?
#51. To: go65 (#49)
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