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Title: Exclusive: US Empire Will Fall Due To Lack Of Faith, Not Finances Or War, Author Warns
Source:
RawStory
URL Source: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/ ... g-washington-author-tells-raw/
Published: Jan 27, 2011
Author: Nathan Diebenow
Post Date: 2011-01-27 12:55:52 by Brian S
Keywords: None
Views: 126619
Comments: 176
As many in the American empire longingly talk of "recovery" from the most devastating economic condition since the Great Depression, others have begun thinking in a very different direction, urging fellow citizens to prepare for the worst. Dmitry Orlov, author of "Reinventing Collapse: The Soviet Example and American Prospects," is one of the latter. Soon, he told Raw Story in an exclusive interview, Americans will "stop expecting anything of Washington," turning the US into more of a "banana republic" than a super power. Orlov, who witnessed the Soviet Union's collapse from within, lamented that the American empire's condition is so severe there is "absolutely nothing" most can do to keep it alive or hasten its demise. "Basically the people in this country are powerless," he suggested. "So they should probably focus on things closer to home." Orlov, born in born in Leningrad (now known as Saint Petersburg), moved to the United States at age 12 and became an engineer. In his book, he detailed his experiences with the Soviet collapse on numerous visits to Russia in the late 1980s, early 1990s. He covered similarities between the two superpowers in their twilight and suggested ways for Americans to adapt to their new post-empire environment. Amid horrid unemployment and a national deficit soaring past World War II levels, Orlov theorized that the US empire would eventually collapse -- not from finances or war, but from a lack of faith in the system. It would happen over three overlapping stages, he said: financial, political and commercial. "We're fairly far along in the financial collapse trajectory while political collapse has now really only started with the last election," he said. By the next election cycle, Orlov figured, the United States would be in the throes of a "banana republic" such that the voters would exchange one inept political party for another inept political party while expecting different results. While nothing constructive would result from this behavior, he said, the next meaningless shift in 2012 may be the last straw. "That will run its course where people walk away in disgust and stop expecting anything of Washington," he said. Environmental and social catastrophe "People will lose access to various products that they need," Orlov said. Much has already collapsed in the commercial sphere. Vacant strip malls and deserted grocery stores clutter the landscape in many parts of the country. "You also have people whose only source of food is food stamps," he said. "That's becoming predominant in a lot of communities." But let's not fail to mention an overemphasis on military expenditures and unused industrial areas, Orlov insisted, describing them as mis-investments made by both empires. "To this day, the former Soviet Union is littered with abandoned or semi-abandoned industrial sites just as the United States is," he noted. By Orlov's estimation, the US military will never voluntarily quit being the world's largest oil consumer and largest polluter. Moreover, any plans suggested to the military to end its oil dependency in 30 years are an act of "desperation," he said. "They have set their hair on fire and are running around in circles. That's their drill right now," Orlov quipped. But what really seemed to rock the Soviet empire to its foundations, Orlov explained, was devastation of Russia's physical environment as a result of industrialization. The prime example was the nuclear reactor accident in Chernobyl in 1986. To this day, the site continues to produce very high levels of childhood leukemia, cancers and other diseases. "[The Chernobyl accident] caused a great number of people, including people in some positions of authority, especially in the scientific community in Russia, to seriously mistrust the government, and [they] started doing their own research, making their own observations that disquieted them even more," Orlov explained. Former Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev's "glasnost" policy allowed enough truth out to undermine the remaining Soviet authority to the point where those who operated the system lost interest in perpetuating it, Orlov said. While likening the Chernobyl disaster to the Deepwater Horizon accident in the Gulf of Mexico on his blog, Orlov said that he expects no hearts of American leaders to bleed over their destroyed environment any time soon. "I don't see the elite in the United States at quite that level of desperation quite yet -- probably because they are a little bit less attuned to what's going on," he said. "They are a little bit more sheltered from the public at large. But that might change."
As the financial collapse runs its course, Orlov said, people can expect some imports to be cut off. Energy, above all cheap oil, will be the most important import to dry up. Transportation fuels will also become scarce, bringing on the next stage of social collapse: the commercial sphere, he noted.
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#1. To: Brian S, go65, lucysmom (#0)
The USA is already a "banana republic" in one regard, the wealth distribution disparity is much or greater than it was in Latin America back when they were all dictatorships. http://www.businessinsider.com/its-official-in-terms-of-income-inequality- america-is-now-a-banana-republic-2010-11 IT'S OFFICIAL: America Is Now A Banana Republic One of the hallmarks of banana republics, says the NYT's Nicholas Kristof, is income inequality. In some countries, the wealthiest 1% of the population takes home 20% or more of the national income. And now the same is true in America: The richest 1 percent of Americans now take home almost 24 percent of income, up from almost 9 percent in 1976. As Timothy Noah of Slate noted in an excellent series on inequality, the United States now arguably has a more unequal distribution of wealth than traditional banana republics like Nicaragua, Venezuela and Guyana. C.E.O.’s of the largest American companies earned an average of 42 times as much as the average worker in 1980, but 531 times as much in 2001. Perhaps the most astounding statistic is this: From 1980 to 2005, more than four-fifths of the total increase in American incomes went to the richest 1 percent. ------------- LOL, the tea bagging peasants were cool with getting the crumbs of the remaining 1/5th of the wealth because they were living large on credit cards. Now that's over too. Maybe in 2012 the tea baggers will wake up and realize they were snookered by the GOP ideology of trickle down?
And the historical solution that the leftists always employ is to make every equally poor, except of course for the party apparatchiks who get to control everything.
Good, that's just what your masters want you to think.
Joseph Stalin, Nicolae Ceauescu, Mao Zedong, Fidel Castro, Pol Pot, and countless others... History is very clear on this. Very clear.
America's wealth disparity makes America very USSR like since all the power and wealth resides in the top 1%.
If you think you are not getting your fair share, educate yourself and make yourself more marketable to employers. Everyone else can do the same. Government has no place in assigning wealth quotas.
Employers???? C.E.O.’s of the largest American companies earned an average of 42 times as much as the average worker in 1980, but 531 times as much in 2001. That's a rip off and with the use of the threat of off shoring the American employee is forced to shut up and take what ever crumbs are offered or else. No wonder Americans live in stress and fear and you get workplace massacres - a record of them happened under Bush.
That's a rip off and with the use of the threat of off shoring the American employee is forced to shut up and take what ever crumbs are offered or else. Barry's had more than two years to address the problem. Done nothing. Zip. Zilch. Nada.
Given that we saw more private sector jobs created in the last 12 months than in the 8 years of Bush, facts aren't your friend.
You can post all the slanted graphs you want, but media matters action org is a partisan organization. Everything they post is going through the spin. *FAIL*
go65, please continue to "post all the slanted graphs you want", per Rudgear. It seems the right wing Conservative Republicans have not mastered spreadsheet charts and are at a disadvantage.
Translation: keep posting gentle spin cycle for the benefit of the uniformed. Left wing Democrats have not mastered reality or challenged their deepest held prejudices and are at a disadvantage.
EXCELLENT. Deserves repeating!
I love how they defeat their own argument with every post they make.
go65 provided a graph proving his point and you guys have not. You lose. Also, the information in those graphs are not biased. We did not lose as many jobs after the stimulus package - and we did lose those jobs before the stimulus package. Why do you deny this fact as a 'left wing plot'? You guys have not been able to defend any of your positions with actual facts/numbers/empirical evidence.
Stop holding up information of disrepute as definitive. You post partisan spin and demand it be taken as factual.
You can't claim it to be so without your counter chart. Then the two can be compared - including sources - and we can see who is correct. You don't do that - you just dismiss it because your hand is weak.
4Q GDP numbers are out today, here's more data to make Rudgear's day:
Hmmm, so you are saying that unemployment was lower under Clinton, even though tax rates were higher? Wow, I never thought I'd see you accept the fact that there's an inverse correlation between tax rates and unemployment.
Hmmmmm. Nothing on the graph about Clinton. Project much?
HERE'S what you're looking for.... Reality is in blue, government propaganda is in red. Of course, go56 will either ignore it or attack it with invective, but he most certainly will not be able to refute it, without resorting to the propaganda...
Thanks. Posting info contrary to the party line of Godwinson and go65 will generate 50 or 60 spam posts. I drove go65 off the board earlier when h tried to push a global warming scam article from CU. I pointed out that it was embroiled in the Ward Churchill scandal. Never heard back. That and he's aping the 'peer reviewed' and 'do you have a PhD' talking points from Godwinson. He couldn't comment on peer reviewed product from Ward Churchill's place of business.
Why do you assume I support the lies the American govt tells you - Dems and Repubs? It is you defending the policies of the last govt in power - the Bush one - where clearly your own figures show a disaster. Also, you should ping the person you are talking about - how will we see the chart to comment on it? I am against outsourcing - I think it proves the American business community are traitors who sell out their own people for a buck made in China. It is my assumption you 2 eric and rud who were defending the business community, the richers, who raped this nation blind so they could make a buck. It is you who called the unemployed lazy and blamed them for their own condition and lack of wealth. It is you who are defending the fact that 1% of the American population controls 4/5th of the wealth in this country while the rest live off the 1/5th crumbs the rick piss down - excuse me - trickle down to the rest. It is you who allow this condition by allowing the GOP to play dog whistle politics so they can get you guys riled up by flag burning or black rappers or whatever angers Archie Bunker types to support the GOP so that when in power the GOP carries out more wealth transfers to the 1%. I am not excusing the Dems - they carried water for the Wall Street bankers under Obama - but seeing that - having you types call Obama a "Commie" is laughable. It shows me that as bad as the two party frauds are you GOP types are worse because you are delusional like that. At least the progressives in the Democratic party know Obama betrayed them. That shows me progressives have a handle on reality. What is your excuse? Thanks for proving through your unemployment chart that America's post Reagan - anti govt oversight - anti govt regulation of businesses along with their union busting caused a massive bloodletting in American jobs that saw a decline in the wealth of 99% of the population who were suckered into buying the trickle down fraud. You want to have a conversation based on exchange of views without resorting to your ad homonym attacks? Let's go then. Let me see you defend this failed ideology with facts.
#65. To: Godwinson (#64)
#1. 59 to go.
You and I are in 100% agreement on this one. It benefits nobody but the Chinese and the international globalist bankers. It is you who are defending the fact that 1% of the American population controls 4/5th of the wealth in this country while the rest live off the 1/5th crumbs the rick piss down - excuse me - trickle down to the rest. Why do you spend so much time in angst over what someone else has? You would be better off spending more time focusing on what you have and what you want. It is you who allow this condition by allowing the GOP to play dog whistle politics so they can get you guys riled up by flag burning or black rappers or whatever angers Archie Bunker types to support the GOP so that when in power the GOP carries out more wealth transfers to the 1%. Ok,Buckwheat,here is where you train leaves the tracks again. Why is all of the above evil when a formal member of the Bush Crime Family does it,but just peachy-keen when Acting President Soetoro (Bush 4.0) not only does the same things,but EXPANDS on them? Enquiring minds,and all dat. I am not excusing the Dems - Except,you are. You remind me greatly of the Bush Bots that were so full of outrage of the "treason of Bill Clinton" for selling the Chinese missile technology,but strangly silent or even approving when Boy Jorge got into office and did the same and more. call Obama a "Commie" is laughable I agree. He is a fascist. Assuming of course he is even bright enough to know what a fascist is. Which is in doubt. IMHO,he is barely smart enough to know where the money comes from,and anything much beyond that has him having "Kennedy Moments". After all,Joe Biden is the perfect replacement for for him,except Uncle Joe is slightly smarter. True,the same can be said about the typical snail darter,but facts iz facts. At least Uncle Joe is with the class of snail darters that didn't go to the "special" classes. It shows me that as bad as the two party frauds are you GOP types are worse because you are delusional like that. You calling someone else delusional is akin to Helen Thomas calling somebody else "ugly". At least the progressives in the Democratic party know Obama betrayed them. That shows me progressives have a handle on reality. Now,THERE'S a real howler! Are you trying to get me to hit the humor ping list? So-called "progressives" and reality don't even exist in the same universe. You live in some sort of bizarro world where communism is a progressive movement.
Then tell your Democrat buddies to fix the convoluted tax and regulatory system in the U.S. We have the highest corporate tax rate in the world and the most complex regulatory regime.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestBy the next election cycle, Orlov figured, the United States would be in the throes of a "banana republic" such that the voters would exchange one inept political party for another inept political party while expecting different results.
#2. To: Godwinson (#1)
(Edited)
distribution of wealth
#6. To: jwpegler (#2)
And the historical solution that the leftists always employ is to make every equally poor, except of course for the party apparatchiks who get to control everything.
#10. To: lucysmom (#6)
(Edited)
Good, that's just what your masters want you to think.
#13. To: jwpegler, lucysmom, Ibluafartsky (#10)
Joseph Stalin, Nicolae Ceauescu, Mao Zedong, Fidel Castro, Pol Pot, and countless others... History is very clear on this. Very clear.
#15. To: Godwinson (#13)
America's wealth disparity makes America very USSR like since all the power and wealth resides in the top 1%.
#18. To: Rudgear (#15)
If you think you are not getting your fair share, educate yourself and make yourself more marketable to employers. Everyone else can do the same. Government has no place in assigning wealth quotas.
#22. To: Godwinson (#18)
#25. To: Rudgear (#22)
(Edited)
Barry's had more than two years to address the problem. Done nothing. Zip. Zilch. Nada.
#28. To: go65 (#25)
#34. To: Rudgear, go65 (#28)
You can post all the slanted graphs you want
#36. To: Godwinson (#34)
#37. To: Rudgear (#36)
Translation: keep posting gentle spin cycle for the benefit of the uniformed. Left wing Democrats have not mastered reality or challenged their deepest held prejudices and are at a disadvantage.
#38. To: Capitalist Eric (#37)
#41. To: Rudgear, Capitalist Eric, go65 (#38)
I love how they defeat their own argument with every post they make.
#44. To: Godwinson (#41)
#46. To: Rudgear, go65 (#44)
Stop holding up information of disrepute as definitive. You post partisan spin and demand it be taken as factual.
#49. To: Godwinson, Rudgear (#46)
#51. To: go65 (#49)
#59. To: Rudgear (#51)
Lets look at unemployment in the Hussein years:
#60. To: go65 (#59)
#62. To: Rudgear (#60)
#63. To: Capitalist Eric (#62)
#64. To: Rudgear, Capitalist Eric, go65, lucysmom, sneakypete, Ferret Mike, Fred Mertz, A Pole, Abu el Banat, Brian S (#63)
Thanks. Posting info contrary to the party line of Godwinson and go65 will generate 50 or 60 spam posts.
Replies to Comment # 64.
#103. To: Godwinson (#64)
I am against outsourcing - I think it proves the American business community are traitors who sell out their own people for a buck made in China.
#106. To: Godwinson (#64)
(Edited)
I am against outsourcing
End Trace Mode for Comment # 64.
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