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Title: Exclusive: US Empire Will Fall Due To Lack Of Faith, Not Finances Or War, Author Warns
Source:
RawStory
URL Source: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/ ... g-washington-author-tells-raw/
Published: Jan 27, 2011
Author: Nathan Diebenow
Post Date: 2011-01-27 12:55:52 by Brian S
Keywords: None
Views: 126527
Comments: 176
As many in the American empire longingly talk of "recovery" from the most devastating economic condition since the Great Depression, others have begun thinking in a very different direction, urging fellow citizens to prepare for the worst. Dmitry Orlov, author of "Reinventing Collapse: The Soviet Example and American Prospects," is one of the latter. Soon, he told Raw Story in an exclusive interview, Americans will "stop expecting anything of Washington," turning the US into more of a "banana republic" than a super power. Orlov, who witnessed the Soviet Union's collapse from within, lamented that the American empire's condition is so severe there is "absolutely nothing" most can do to keep it alive or hasten its demise. "Basically the people in this country are powerless," he suggested. "So they should probably focus on things closer to home." Orlov, born in born in Leningrad (now known as Saint Petersburg), moved to the United States at age 12 and became an engineer. In his book, he detailed his experiences with the Soviet collapse on numerous visits to Russia in the late 1980s, early 1990s. He covered similarities between the two superpowers in their twilight and suggested ways for Americans to adapt to their new post-empire environment. Amid horrid unemployment and a national deficit soaring past World War II levels, Orlov theorized that the US empire would eventually collapse -- not from finances or war, but from a lack of faith in the system. It would happen over three overlapping stages, he said: financial, political and commercial. "We're fairly far along in the financial collapse trajectory while political collapse has now really only started with the last election," he said. By the next election cycle, Orlov figured, the United States would be in the throes of a "banana republic" such that the voters would exchange one inept political party for another inept political party while expecting different results. While nothing constructive would result from this behavior, he said, the next meaningless shift in 2012 may be the last straw. "That will run its course where people walk away in disgust and stop expecting anything of Washington," he said. Environmental and social catastrophe "People will lose access to various products that they need," Orlov said. Much has already collapsed in the commercial sphere. Vacant strip malls and deserted grocery stores clutter the landscape in many parts of the country. "You also have people whose only source of food is food stamps," he said. "That's becoming predominant in a lot of communities." But let's not fail to mention an overemphasis on military expenditures and unused industrial areas, Orlov insisted, describing them as mis-investments made by both empires. "To this day, the former Soviet Union is littered with abandoned or semi-abandoned industrial sites just as the United States is," he noted. By Orlov's estimation, the US military will never voluntarily quit being the world's largest oil consumer and largest polluter. Moreover, any plans suggested to the military to end its oil dependency in 30 years are an act of "desperation," he said. "They have set their hair on fire and are running around in circles. That's their drill right now," Orlov quipped. But what really seemed to rock the Soviet empire to its foundations, Orlov explained, was devastation of Russia's physical environment as a result of industrialization. The prime example was the nuclear reactor accident in Chernobyl in 1986. To this day, the site continues to produce very high levels of childhood leukemia, cancers and other diseases. "[The Chernobyl accident] caused a great number of people, including people in some positions of authority, especially in the scientific community in Russia, to seriously mistrust the government, and [they] started doing their own research, making their own observations that disquieted them even more," Orlov explained. Former Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev's "glasnost" policy allowed enough truth out to undermine the remaining Soviet authority to the point where those who operated the system lost interest in perpetuating it, Orlov said. While likening the Chernobyl disaster to the Deepwater Horizon accident in the Gulf of Mexico on his blog, Orlov said that he expects no hearts of American leaders to bleed over their destroyed environment any time soon. "I don't see the elite in the United States at quite that level of desperation quite yet -- probably because they are a little bit less attuned to what's going on," he said. "They are a little bit more sheltered from the public at large. But that might change."
As the financial collapse runs its course, Orlov said, people can expect some imports to be cut off. Energy, above all cheap oil, will be the most important import to dry up. Transportation fuels will also become scarce, bringing on the next stage of social collapse: the commercial sphere, he noted.
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#1. To: Brian S, go65, lucysmom (#0)
The USA is already a "banana republic" in one regard, the wealth distribution disparity is much or greater than it was in Latin America back when they were all dictatorships. http://www.businessinsider.com/its-official-in-terms-of-income-inequality- america-is-now-a-banana-republic-2010-11 IT'S OFFICIAL: America Is Now A Banana Republic One of the hallmarks of banana republics, says the NYT's Nicholas Kristof, is income inequality. In some countries, the wealthiest 1% of the population takes home 20% or more of the national income. And now the same is true in America: The richest 1 percent of Americans now take home almost 24 percent of income, up from almost 9 percent in 1976. As Timothy Noah of Slate noted in an excellent series on inequality, the United States now arguably has a more unequal distribution of wealth than traditional banana republics like Nicaragua, Venezuela and Guyana. C.E.O.’s of the largest American companies earned an average of 42 times as much as the average worker in 1980, but 531 times as much in 2001. Perhaps the most astounding statistic is this: From 1980 to 2005, more than four-fifths of the total increase in American incomes went to the richest 1 percent. ------------- LOL, the tea bagging peasants were cool with getting the crumbs of the remaining 1/5th of the wealth because they were living large on credit cards. Now that's over too. Maybe in 2012 the tea baggers will wake up and realize they were snookered by the GOP ideology of trickle down?
And the historical solution that the leftists always employ is to make every equally poor, except of course for the party apparatchiks who get to control everything.
Good, that's just what your masters want you to think.
Joseph Stalin, Nicolae Ceauescu, Mao Zedong, Fidel Castro, Pol Pot, and countless others... History is very clear on this. Very clear.
America's wealth disparity makes America very USSR like since all the power and wealth resides in the top 1%.
If you think you are not getting your fair share, educate yourself and make yourself more marketable to employers. Everyone else can do the same. Government has no place in assigning wealth quotas.
Employers???? C.E.O.’s of the largest American companies earned an average of 42 times as much as the average worker in 1980, but 531 times as much in 2001. That's a rip off and with the use of the threat of off shoring the American employee is forced to shut up and take what ever crumbs are offered or else. No wonder Americans live in stress and fear and you get workplace massacres - a record of them happened under Bush.
That's a rip off and with the use of the threat of off shoring the American employee is forced to shut up and take what ever crumbs are offered or else. Barry's had more than two years to address the problem. Done nothing. Zip. Zilch. Nada.
Given that we saw more private sector jobs created in the last 12 months than in the 8 years of Bush, facts aren't your friend.
You can post all the slanted graphs you want, but media matters action org is a partisan organization. Everything they post is going through the spin. *FAIL*
go65, please continue to "post all the slanted graphs you want", per Rudgear. It seems the right wing Conservative Republicans have not mastered spreadsheet charts and are at a disadvantage.
Translation: keep posting gentle spin cycle for the benefit of the uniformed. Left wing Democrats have not mastered reality or challenged their deepest held prejudices and are at a disadvantage.
EXCELLENT. Deserves repeating!
I love how they defeat their own argument with every post they make.
go65 provided a graph proving his point and you guys have not. You lose. Also, the information in those graphs are not biased. We did not lose as many jobs after the stimulus package - and we did lose those jobs before the stimulus package. Why do you deny this fact as a 'left wing plot'? You guys have not been able to defend any of your positions with actual facts/numbers/empirical evidence.
Stop holding up information of disrepute as definitive. You post partisan spin and demand it be taken as factual.
You can't claim it to be so without your counter chart. Then the two can be compared - including sources - and we can see who is correct. You don't do that - you just dismiss it because your hand is weak.
4Q GDP numbers are out today, here's more data to make Rudgear's day:
Hmmm, so you are saying that unemployment was lower under Clinton, even though tax rates were higher? Wow, I never thought I'd see you accept the fact that there's an inverse correlation between tax rates and unemployment.
Hmmmmm. Nothing on the graph about Clinton. Project much?
HERE'S what you're looking for.... Reality is in blue, government propaganda is in red. Of course, go56 will either ignore it or attack it with invective, but he most certainly will not be able to refute it, without resorting to the propaganda...
Thanks. Posting info contrary to the party line of Godwinson and go65 will generate 50 or 60 spam posts. I drove go65 off the board earlier when h tried to push a global warming scam article from CU. I pointed out that it was embroiled in the Ward Churchill scandal. Never heard back. That and he's aping the 'peer reviewed' and 'do you have a PhD' talking points from Godwinson. He couldn't comment on peer reviewed product from Ward Churchill's place of business.
Why do you assume I support the lies the American govt tells you - Dems and Repubs? It is you defending the policies of the last govt in power - the Bush one - where clearly your own figures show a disaster. Also, you should ping the person you are talking about - how will we see the chart to comment on it? I am against outsourcing - I think it proves the American business community are traitors who sell out their own people for a buck made in China. It is my assumption you 2 eric and rud who were defending the business community, the richers, who raped this nation blind so they could make a buck. It is you who called the unemployed lazy and blamed them for their own condition and lack of wealth. It is you who are defending the fact that 1% of the American population controls 4/5th of the wealth in this country while the rest live off the 1/5th crumbs the rick piss down - excuse me - trickle down to the rest. It is you who allow this condition by allowing the GOP to play dog whistle politics so they can get you guys riled up by flag burning or black rappers or whatever angers Archie Bunker types to support the GOP so that when in power the GOP carries out more wealth transfers to the 1%. I am not excusing the Dems - they carried water for the Wall Street bankers under Obama - but seeing that - having you types call Obama a "Commie" is laughable. It shows me that as bad as the two party frauds are you GOP types are worse because you are delusional like that. At least the progressives in the Democratic party know Obama betrayed them. That shows me progressives have a handle on reality. What is your excuse? Thanks for proving through your unemployment chart that America's post Reagan - anti govt oversight - anti govt regulation of businesses along with their union busting caused a massive bloodletting in American jobs that saw a decline in the wealth of 99% of the population who were suckered into buying the trickle down fraud. You want to have a conversation based on exchange of views without resorting to your ad homonym attacks? Let's go then. Let me see you defend this failed ideology with facts.
Then tell your Democrat buddies to fix the convoluted tax and regulatory system in the U.S. We have the highest corporate tax rate in the world and the most complex regulatory regime.
What lies. We have more regulation than Communist China? Japan? We have more taxes and regulations that Western Europe? - than Germany they are still an exporting powerhouse? Where German unions are as powerful and healthy as ever? You want a nation without taxes and regulations - see Somalia and Haiti.
You really are a know-nothing ideologue. Know-nothing. Germany's corporate tax rate is 15%. Ours ranges from 15% to 39.6%. Their individual income tax rate is much less progressive than ours. They have a huge jump in rates (from 14% to 42%) at $52,000 and a tiny increase in rates (from 42% to 45%) at $250,000 ($500,000 for married couples). That's it. American has the highest corporate tax rates in the world. We also have one of the most progressive income tax systems in the world. These are the facts. They are in conflict with your Know-Nothing ideology.
So you support German socialism then?
I absolutely support cutting U.S. corporate tax rates in half so we can be competitive with Germany and China.
Are you now pro labor union and 'socialized' health care along German lines? I came on here arguing for the superiority of the German social market and now you agree with me. Face it, America's business philosophy, capitalism, health care system, militarism is all inferior to the social market model. Some more German tax info - and Germany can export manufacturing at record levels with all these taxes and with powerful trade unions in the mix. So what's America's excuse? Your thesis that the American worker unionizing is not the reason American businesses are moving over seas- greed is. Your thesis that taxes and regulations are the reasons America businesses are leaving is correct - but they are doing so because America's rich owners are greedy bastards and traitors to her people who unlike the Germans - care more about stuffing their portfolios than making their country strong. You Republican filth carry their water for them under this stupid philosophy that greed is good and if Americans live like wage slaves then the business masters may throw us unworthy serfs a bone. Can you water carriers for the oligarchs explain how Germany can be an exporting power house, while maintaining universal health care, an active labor union, and no banking crisis by doing things the opposite of what Rush Limbough champions? The rate of income tax in Germany ranges from 0% to 45%. The German income tax is a progressive tax, As of 1 January 2008, Germany’s corporation tax rate is 15%. Counting both the solidarity surcharge (5.5% of corporation tax) and trade tax (averaging 14% as of 2008), tax on corporations in Germany is just below 30%. On top of income tax, the so-called solidarity surcharge (Solidaritaetszuschlag) is levied at a rate of 5.5% of the income tax for higher incomes. Up to €972 (€1,944 for married couples) annual income tax, no solidarity surcharge is levied. Above this threshold, the solidarity surcharge rate increases continuously until it reaches 5.5% when the annual income tax is €1,340.69 (€2,681.38 for married couples). When dividends are paid to an individual person, capital yield tax at a rate of 25% is charged. Since 1 January 2009, this tax is final for individuals who are residents of Germany. Solidarity surcharge is also imposed on capital yields tax. Entrepreneurs engaging in business operations are subject to trade tax as well as income tax/corporation tax. In contrast to the latter, trade tax is charged by the local authorities, who are entitled to the entire amount. The rate levied is fixed by each local authority separately within the range of rates prescribed by the central government. As from 1 January 2008, the rate averages 14% of profits subject to trade tax.
U.S. States levy corporate income taxes as well -- as much as 12%. The fact remains that federal corporate income taxes in Germany are 15%. They are 39.6% in the U.S. Both countries also levy corporate taxes at the provincial level as well. The U.S. has the highest corporate tax rates in the world. We also have the most progressive tax system on individuals. Know-nothing leftists like you don't get it.
Actually, that isn't true and either you know it or YOU are the one that is ignorant. Germany's corporate tax rate averages 29.8%; the US, 35%. India's corporate tax rate is 33.2175%, and Japan's rate is 40.69%. As for "most progressive tax system on individuals" - you must mean something other than I think you mean because that isn't even close to being true.
Germany's corporate tax rate averages 29.8%; the US, 35%. India's corporate tax rate is 33.2175%, and Japan's rate is 40.69%. Look at the chart you linked to. What does it say? 2005. Germany's corporate tax rate was cut to 15% in 2008. Japan's corporate tax rate was cut to 30% in 2009. In addition, OECD made it very clear in 2008 that the U.S. has the most progressive tax system in the world. Do you even know what "progressive taxes" mean? Given that I posted the data from OECD and you still huff and puff, it's obvious that you don't have a clue. I've told you this many times before -- you can't just quickly Google something and expect to come up with the right answer. You either the subject matter or you don't. You just don't. I do know the subject matter. Unlike you, I'm a numbers person, not an ideologue. I don't posts things that aren't factually correct.
Self-described "progressives" don't even know what "progressive" means in the political context. It's a code word for "communist",and they will deny it with their dying breath because they just can't bear to face the truth.
There are no replies to Comment # 155. End Trace Mode for Comment # 155.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestBy the next election cycle, Orlov figured, the United States would be in the throes of a "banana republic" such that the voters would exchange one inept political party for another inept political party while expecting different results.
#2. To: Godwinson (#1)
(Edited)
distribution of wealth
#6. To: jwpegler (#2)
And the historical solution that the leftists always employ is to make every equally poor, except of course for the party apparatchiks who get to control everything.
#10. To: lucysmom (#6)
(Edited)
Good, that's just what your masters want you to think.
#13. To: jwpegler, lucysmom, Ibluafartsky (#10)
Joseph Stalin, Nicolae Ceauescu, Mao Zedong, Fidel Castro, Pol Pot, and countless others... History is very clear on this. Very clear.
#15. To: Godwinson (#13)
America's wealth disparity makes America very USSR like since all the power and wealth resides in the top 1%.
#18. To: Rudgear (#15)
If you think you are not getting your fair share, educate yourself and make yourself more marketable to employers. Everyone else can do the same. Government has no place in assigning wealth quotas.
#22. To: Godwinson (#18)
#25. To: Rudgear (#22)
(Edited)
Barry's had more than two years to address the problem. Done nothing. Zip. Zilch. Nada.
#28. To: go65 (#25)
#34. To: Rudgear, go65 (#28)
You can post all the slanted graphs you want
#36. To: Godwinson (#34)
#37. To: Rudgear (#36)
Translation: keep posting gentle spin cycle for the benefit of the uniformed. Left wing Democrats have not mastered reality or challenged their deepest held prejudices and are at a disadvantage.
#38. To: Capitalist Eric (#37)
#41. To: Rudgear, Capitalist Eric, go65 (#38)
I love how they defeat their own argument with every post they make.
#44. To: Godwinson (#41)
#46. To: Rudgear, go65 (#44)
Stop holding up information of disrepute as definitive. You post partisan spin and demand it be taken as factual.
#49. To: Godwinson, Rudgear (#46)
#51. To: go65 (#49)
#59. To: Rudgear (#51)
Lets look at unemployment in the Hussein years:
#60. To: go65 (#59)
#62. To: Rudgear (#60)
#63. To: Capitalist Eric (#62)
#64. To: Rudgear, Capitalist Eric, go65, lucysmom, sneakypete, Ferret Mike, Fred Mertz, A Pole, Abu el Banat, Brian S (#63)
Thanks. Posting info contrary to the party line of Godwinson and go65 will generate 50 or 60 spam posts.
#106. To: Godwinson (#64)
(Edited)
I am against outsourcing
#120. To: jwpegler (#106)
Then tell your Democrat buddies to fix the convoluted tax and regulatory system in the U.S. We have the highest corporate tax rate in the world and the most complex regulatory regime
#124. To: Godwinson (#120)
(Edited)
What lies. We have more taxes and regulations that Western Europe? - than Germany they are still an exporting powerhouse?
#127. To: jwpegler (#124)
Germany's corporate tax rate is 15%
#130. To: Godwinson (#127)
(Edited)
Germany's corporate tax rate is 15%...
So you support German socialism then?
#132. To: jwpegler, go65, lucysmom, Brian S, (#130)
Germany's corporate tax rate is 15%... So you support German socialism then? I absolutely support cutting U.S. corporate tax rates in half so we can be competitive with Germany and China.
#134. To: Godwinson (#132)
(Edited)
trade tax is charged by the local authorities... As from 1 January 2008, the rate averages 14% of profits subject to trade tax.
#147. To: jwpegler, Godwinson (#134)
The U.S. has the highest corporate tax rates in the world. We also have the most progressive tax system on individuals. Know-nothing leftists like you don't get it.
#154. To: lucysmom, We The People, sneakypete, Godwinson (#147)
(Edited)
Actually, that isn't true and either you know it or YOU are the one that is ignorant.
#155. To: jwpegler, lucysmom, We The People, sneakypete, Godwinson (#154)
Do you even know what "progressive taxes" mean?
Replies to Comment # 155.
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