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Title: Exclusive: US Empire Will Fall Due To Lack Of Faith, Not Finances Or War, Author Warns
Source:
RawStory
URL Source: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/ ... g-washington-author-tells-raw/
Published: Jan 27, 2011
Author: Nathan Diebenow
Post Date: 2011-01-27 12:55:52 by Brian S
Keywords: None
Views: 125630
Comments: 176
As many in the American empire longingly talk of "recovery" from the most devastating economic condition since the Great Depression, others have begun thinking in a very different direction, urging fellow citizens to prepare for the worst. Dmitry Orlov, author of "Reinventing Collapse: The Soviet Example and American Prospects," is one of the latter. Soon, he told Raw Story in an exclusive interview, Americans will "stop expecting anything of Washington," turning the US into more of a "banana republic" than a super power. Orlov, who witnessed the Soviet Union's collapse from within, lamented that the American empire's condition is so severe there is "absolutely nothing" most can do to keep it alive or hasten its demise. "Basically the people in this country are powerless," he suggested. "So they should probably focus on things closer to home." Orlov, born in born in Leningrad (now known as Saint Petersburg), moved to the United States at age 12 and became an engineer. In his book, he detailed his experiences with the Soviet collapse on numerous visits to Russia in the late 1980s, early 1990s. He covered similarities between the two superpowers in their twilight and suggested ways for Americans to adapt to their new post-empire environment. Amid horrid unemployment and a national deficit soaring past World War II levels, Orlov theorized that the US empire would eventually collapse -- not from finances or war, but from a lack of faith in the system. It would happen over three overlapping stages, he said: financial, political and commercial. "We're fairly far along in the financial collapse trajectory while political collapse has now really only started with the last election," he said. By the next election cycle, Orlov figured, the United States would be in the throes of a "banana republic" such that the voters would exchange one inept political party for another inept political party while expecting different results. While nothing constructive would result from this behavior, he said, the next meaningless shift in 2012 may be the last straw. "That will run its course where people walk away in disgust and stop expecting anything of Washington," he said. Environmental and social catastrophe "People will lose access to various products that they need," Orlov said. Much has already collapsed in the commercial sphere. Vacant strip malls and deserted grocery stores clutter the landscape in many parts of the country. "You also have people whose only source of food is food stamps," he said. "That's becoming predominant in a lot of communities." But let's not fail to mention an overemphasis on military expenditures and unused industrial areas, Orlov insisted, describing them as mis-investments made by both empires. "To this day, the former Soviet Union is littered with abandoned or semi-abandoned industrial sites just as the United States is," he noted. By Orlov's estimation, the US military will never voluntarily quit being the world's largest oil consumer and largest polluter. Moreover, any plans suggested to the military to end its oil dependency in 30 years are an act of "desperation," he said. "They have set their hair on fire and are running around in circles. That's their drill right now," Orlov quipped. But what really seemed to rock the Soviet empire to its foundations, Orlov explained, was devastation of Russia's physical environment as a result of industrialization. The prime example was the nuclear reactor accident in Chernobyl in 1986. To this day, the site continues to produce very high levels of childhood leukemia, cancers and other diseases. "[The Chernobyl accident] caused a great number of people, including people in some positions of authority, especially in the scientific community in Russia, to seriously mistrust the government, and [they] started doing their own research, making their own observations that disquieted them even more," Orlov explained. Former Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev's "glasnost" policy allowed enough truth out to undermine the remaining Soviet authority to the point where those who operated the system lost interest in perpetuating it, Orlov said. While likening the Chernobyl disaster to the Deepwater Horizon accident in the Gulf of Mexico on his blog, Orlov said that he expects no hearts of American leaders to bleed over their destroyed environment any time soon. "I don't see the elite in the United States at quite that level of desperation quite yet -- probably because they are a little bit less attuned to what's going on," he said. "They are a little bit more sheltered from the public at large. But that might change."
As the financial collapse runs its course, Orlov said, people can expect some imports to be cut off. Energy, above all cheap oil, will be the most important import to dry up. Transportation fuels will also become scarce, bringing on the next stage of social collapse: the commercial sphere, he noted.
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#1. To: Brian S, go65, lucysmom (#0)
The USA is already a "banana republic" in one regard, the wealth distribution disparity is much or greater than it was in Latin America back when they were all dictatorships. http://www.businessinsider.com/its-official-in-terms-of-income-inequality- america-is-now-a-banana-republic-2010-11 IT'S OFFICIAL: America Is Now A Banana Republic One of the hallmarks of banana republics, says the NYT's Nicholas Kristof, is income inequality. In some countries, the wealthiest 1% of the population takes home 20% or more of the national income. And now the same is true in America: The richest 1 percent of Americans now take home almost 24 percent of income, up from almost 9 percent in 1976. As Timothy Noah of Slate noted in an excellent series on inequality, the United States now arguably has a more unequal distribution of wealth than traditional banana republics like Nicaragua, Venezuela and Guyana. C.E.O.’s of the largest American companies earned an average of 42 times as much as the average worker in 1980, but 531 times as much in 2001. Perhaps the most astounding statistic is this: From 1980 to 2005, more than four-fifths of the total increase in American incomes went to the richest 1 percent. ------------- LOL, the tea bagging peasants were cool with getting the crumbs of the remaining 1/5th of the wealth because they were living large on credit cards. Now that's over too. Maybe in 2012 the tea baggers will wake up and realize they were snookered by the GOP ideology of trickle down?
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
And the historical solution that the leftists always employ is to make every equally poor, except of course for the party apparatchiks who get to control everything.
Actually this statement of yours admits there is a problem - and trickle down supply side economics of the GOP made the 1% rich 4/5th richer and the rest of the 99% of the population gets to share the 5/5th crumbs.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
Isn't that how Obama became POTUS, Pelosi SOTH and Kagan and Sotomayor AJOTSC?
Stop whining you commie bastard.
Good, that's just what your masters want you to think.
Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson
Gandhi was a commie because he wanted Indians to determine their own fate, not the British. Martin Luther King was a commie when he worked for freedom for all Americans. If Jesus came back and preached the same message today, he's be a commie too.
Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson
Martin Luther King was a commie when he worked for freedom for all Americans. If Jesus came back and preached the same message today, he's be a commie too. What kind of mind-altering substances are you snorting?
The professional left can only exist because there are people in the world who are green with envy. Instead of trying to make themselves better, they sit and fester because others have more than they do. They become obsessed and their envy consumes them. Godwinson is a great example of this. The envious man thinks that if his neighbor breaks a leg, he will be able to walk better himself -- Helmut Schoeck
Joseph Stalin, Nicolae Ceauescu, Mao Zedong, Fidel Castro, Pol Pot, and countless others... History is very clear on this. Very clear.
Fartboy isn't interested in a rational discussion. He comes in like a mangy dog, lifting his leg on every thread... The goal? Attention. And he works hard to get it: he averages about 2 posts for every response he gets. Basically, 2/3 of the forum simply ignore him, which is why he gets more and more shrill with time... When he becomes a non-entity to ~90% of the forum, it'll simply be the "echo-chamber" effect of fartboy, godwinson, mutt dog and go56. And they'll all pat themselves on the back, for having done a good job... of becoming pariahs. {{{smirk}}}
"There will be no more money when the U.S. dollar has no value, until that time we can keep printing more." -- go65, LF's answer to Ben Bernanke --
How would you know, you pathetic dicklicker?
America's wealth disparity makes America very USSR like since all the power and wealth resides in the top 1%.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
You 2 deserve each other.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
If you think you are not getting your fair share, educate yourself and make yourself more marketable to employers. Everyone else can do the same. Government has no place in assigning wealth quotas.
Well, [war's] got to do something for attention, his multiple personalities aren't speaking to him any more, and his imaginary friends keep finding excuses not to come over.
Unless the history reels are wrong, How people can be romantic about communism is a mystery to me. Communism was supposed to be a better form than religion, They just made new flags up and killed ,...just like Religions do.
You're right. Communism is the religion of the far left. To them, it has all the attributes, including ethics and morality.
Well, [war's] got to do something for attention, his multiple personalities aren't speaking to him any more, and his imaginary friends keep finding excuses not to come over.
Employers???? C.E.O.’s of the largest American companies earned an average of 42 times as much as the average worker in 1980, but 531 times as much in 2001. That's a rip off and with the use of the threat of off shoring the American employee is forced to shut up and take what ever crumbs are offered or else. No wonder Americans live in stress and fear and you get workplace massacres - a record of them happened under Bush.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
But because of Obama there are no jobs right? You don't put much thought into these arguments, so you end up with "the unemployed are too lazy to take the jobs that aren't there because of Obama"
Since January 3, 2011, Republicans have controlled the power of the purse.
Communists use lies and deception. I see the same theme with the Watermelon Earthers.
Since January 20, 2009 what has Obama done to bring back jobs shipped overseas? Reduced the tax burden? No. Reduced the threat of expensive nuisance litigation? No. Punished those companies that sell or share technology with foreign competitors? No. What has your boy done to put America back to work. Nothing. Communists want a uniform, impoverished society. All the better to tyrannize over.
Well, [war's] got to do something for attention, his multiple personalities aren't speaking to him any more, and his imaginary friends keep finding excuses not to come over.
That's a rip off and with the use of the threat of off shoring the American employee is forced to shut up and take what ever crumbs are offered or else. Barry's had more than two years to address the problem. Done nothing. Zip. Zilch. Nada.
Well, [war's] got to do something for attention, his multiple personalities aren't speaking to him any more, and his imaginary friends keep finding excuses not to come over.
Communism is an infantile mindset. That's why the immature of the population fall under its spell.
Well, [war's] got to do something for attention, his multiple personalities aren't speaking to him any more, and his imaginary friends keep finding excuses not to come over.
Its rumored Zero is going to appear on National teleprompter sheeple vision and urge Congress to gungrab in the next weeks.
Given that we saw more private sector jobs created in the last 12 months than in the 8 years of Bush, facts aren't your friend.
Since January 3, 2011, Republicans have controlled the power of the purse.
Since January 3, 2011, Republicans have controlled the power of the purse.
December 2010: Any other dumb questions?
Since January 3, 2011, Republicans have controlled the power of the purse.
You can post all the slanted graphs you want, but media matters action org is a partisan organization. Everything they post is going through the spin. *FAIL*
Well, [war's] got to do something for attention, his multiple personalities aren't speaking to him any more, and his imaginary friends keep finding excuses not to come over.
So Paul Ryan and Michelle Bachmann are communists? http://factcheck.org/2011/01/factchecking-the-gop-response/ Since January 3, 2011, Republicans have controlled the power of the purse.
Those charts are based on raw numbers released by the BLS. You can validate them here: http://www.bls.gov/ Of course, if you want to claim a massive conspiracy be my guest, that's the common refrain of Conservatives who lack facts to support any of their arguments.
Since January 3, 2011, Republicans have controlled the power of the purse.
Factcheck.org is another Obama gentle spin cycle. You really need to stay away from the pages that only tell you what you want to hear.
Well, [war's] got to do something for attention, his multiple personalities aren't speaking to him any more, and his imaginary friends keep finding excuses not to come over.
Jan 26 Volunteer rate declines to 26.3% for the year ending in September 2010 The volunteer rate fell by 0.5 percentage point to 26.3 percent for the year ending in September 2010. About 62.8 million people volunteered through or for an organization at least once between September 2009 and September 2010. The volunteer rate in 2010 was similar to the rates in 2007... What conspiracy? Spin is as natural to partisans as falling down is to a toddler. From your link, the numbers don't support a beneficent Barry Hussein, dispensing more than leaf-blower jobs to illegal criminals pouring over the border.
Well, [war's] got to do something for attention, his multiple personalities aren't speaking to him any more, and his imaginary friends keep finding excuses not to come over.
Barry's had more than two years to address the problem. Done nothing. Zip. Zilch. Nada. I don't support many of President Obama's policies but it seems to me in your reply you agree with me that the 1% that owns 99% of the wealth uses fear and intimidation against American workers via threats of offshoring, etc. and it is not a case that Americans of the 99% class are lazy and don't deserve to have a greater share of the wealth. Now that it seems you acknowledge this as a problem we need to apply a solution - your solution is to do more of the same policies that got the rich more of the wealth from the rest of the 99% of the population in the hopes that it will eventually trickle down. That clearly did not happen and won't happen. The other way is to tax the rich at higher levels and re-invest in sustainable American jobs. There is a third option and that is for the 99% of the American population to use their 2nd amendment rights and take back the wealth from the 1% of the population who who stole it from them. There is tyranny of govt of course but you water carriers for the oligarchs masquerading as "conservatives" forget that there is also tyranny of the rich on the poor.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
go65, please continue to "post all the slanted graphs you want", per Rudgear. It seems the right wing Conservative Republicans have not mastered spreadsheet charts and are at a disadvantage.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
Solutions include getting rid of the Federal Reserve, securing the border with Mexico, simplifying the tax code, taking government out of education and turning back to the states. That's how much of a water carrier of oligarchs I am. You don't know me. You lash out because you keep getting your head handed to you,
Well, [war's] got to do something for attention, his multiple personalities aren't speaking to him any more, and his imaginary friends keep finding excuses not to come over.
Translation: keep posting gentle spin cycle for the benefit of the uniformed. Left wing Democrats have not mastered reality or challenged their deepest held prejudices and are at a disadvantage.
Well, [war's] got to do something for attention, his multiple personalities aren't speaking to him any more, and his imaginary friends keep finding excuses not to come over.
EXCELLENT. Deserves repeating!
"There will be no more money when the U.S. dollar has no value, until that time we can keep printing more." -- go65, LF's answer to Ben Bernanke --
I love how they defeat their own argument with every post they make.
Well, [war's] got to do something for attention, his multiple personalities aren't speaking to him any more, and his imaginary friends keep finding excuses not to come over.
Your solutions are fanatsy right wing kookery. I know of no nation of the industrialized world (including ones that are doing well like Germany) that does not have a central bank of some sort. I know of no nation on earth that is ahead of the USA in educational reulst who has a decentralized education system. In places where t he govt i snot involved in education you can find them in Pakistan and Somalia. I don't see how states rights will make America's wealth gap better. Last time we had issue of states rights we had a slave owning aristocracy. I am all for controlling immigration and I am against NAFTA so we can agree on that but Mexican immigration was a result of business owners who want no govt oversight - right? - wanting cheaper unregulated labor. So now that I destroyed your talking points I see you still have not refuted and in fact are still in agreement that the wealth gap is not good and in fact hurting America. That's actually a big deal because Republican politicians have been on record calling Americans lazy.
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
Why do you fear spreadsheets?
"Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!" - Various Tea Party signs.
Comments (41 - 176) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestBy the next election cycle, Orlov figured, the United States would be in the throes of a "banana republic" such that the voters would exchange one inept political party for another inept political party while expecting different results.
#2. To: Godwinson (#1)
(Edited)
distribution of wealth
"It's very important to remember the law is not simply what powerful people would want others to believe it is." -- Julian Assange
#3. To: jwpegler (#2)
(Edited)
And the historical solution that the leftists always employ is to make every equally poor, except of course for the party apparatchiks who get to control everything.
#4. To: Brian S (#0)
Soon, he told Raw Story in an exclusive interview, Americans will "stop expecting anything of Washington,"
#5. To: Godwinson (#3)
Actually this statement of yours admits there is a problem - and trickle down supply side economics of the GOP made the 1% rich 4/5th richer and the rest of the 99% of the population gets to share the 5/5th crumbs.
#6. To: jwpegler (#2)
And the historical solution that the leftists always employ is to make every equally poor, except of course for the party apparatchiks who get to control everything.
#7. To: Ibluafartsky (#5)
Stop whining you commie bastard.
#8. To: lucysmom (#7)
Gandhi was a commie because he wanted Indians to determine their own fate, not the British.
#9. To: Ibluafartsky, capitalist eric (#5)
Stop whining you commie bastard.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. -- Winston Churchill
#10. To: lucysmom (#6)
(Edited)
Good, that's just what your masters want you to think.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. -- Winston Churchill
#11. To: jwpegler (#9)
#12. To: Capitalist Eric (#11)
he averages about 2 posts for every response he gets.
#13. To: jwpegler, lucysmom, Ibluafartsky (#10)
Joseph Stalin, Nicolae Ceauescu, Mao Zedong, Fidel Castro, Pol Pot, and countless others... History is very clear on this. Very clear.
#14. To: Ibluafartsky, Capitalist Eric (#12)
he averages about 2 posts for every response he gets. How would you know, you pathetic dicklicker?
#15. To: Godwinson (#13)
America's wealth disparity makes America very USSR like since all the power and wealth resides in the top 1%.
#16. To: lucysmom (#7)
Gandhi was a commie because he wanted Indians to determine their own fate, not the British.
Most first event/emergence communist overthrows of nations goobs,kings etc,
begins with violence and ends with Millions getting slaughtered,...and I mean,...millions.
Unless these people are secret/open chaos/malthusians.
#17. To: Parrot with speed dial (#16)
#18. To: Rudgear (#15)
If you think you are not getting your fair share, educate yourself and make yourself more marketable to employers. Everyone else can do the same. Government has no place in assigning wealth quotas.
#19. To: Rudgear, godwinson (#15)
If you think you are not getting your fair share, educate yourself and make yourself more marketable to employers. Everyone else can do the same. Government has no place in assigning wealth quotas.
#20. To: Rudgear (#17)
You're right. Communism is the religion of the far left. To them, it has all the attributes, including ethics and morality.
They are like a virus which spreads resulting in complete violent madness.
They cheer to see people who have paid for their own land,...or own it via historic inheritance.
so ya,...in the USA,...landowners pushed off because of commie EPA,...or some fucking newt or smelt in the creek.
This is Russian/Chi Com communism where the state throws you off the land and will kill you if you are caught sneaking back onto it.
Americans would be horrified if they saw the maps the UN has to relocate and allocate land distribution.
Recent Global orgy in Cancun boasted about removing people off the land as an imperative.
#21. To: go65 (#19)
Since January 3, 2011, Republicans have controlled the power of the purse.
#22. To: Godwinson (#18)
#23. To: Parrot with speed dial, Godwinson, Go65 (#20)
#24. To: Rudgear (#21)
#25. To: Rudgear (#22)
(Edited)
Barry's had more than two years to address the problem. Done nothing. Zip. Zilch. Nada.
#26. To: Parrot with speed dial (#24)
Its rumored Zero is going to appear on National teleprompter sheeple vision and urge Congress to gungrab in the next weeks.
#27. To: Rudgear (#21)
(Edited)
What has your boy done to put America back to work.
#28. To: go65 (#25)
#29. To: Parrot with speed dial, godwinson, rudgear (#20)
Communists use lies and deception.
FactChecking the GOP Response
Ryan and Bachmann made two new false claims, and repeated other talking points, in their responses to the president's State of the Union address.
We fact-checked President Obama’s State of the Union address, but what about the Republican response speeches? We found two new claims that we haven’t covered before:
In the official response, Rep. Paul Ryan said that "trust in government is at an all-time low now that the size of government is at an all-time high." He’s wrong on both counts. Trust has been lower, and government has been larger, in the past.
In her own rebuttal to Obama, Rep. Michele Bachmann said that the bailout cost "$700 billion." The net cost actually is estimated to be much less — $25 billion, according to the Congressional Budget Office.
In addition, the two Republicans repeated several false and misleading charges we’ve already written about. Our readers will be familiar with many of them, such as claims that the stimulus didn’t create jobs (it did), that the health care law hurts job growth (experts say the impact will be small), and that "16,500 IRS agents" will enforce that law (that’s based on a flawed, partisan analysis).
#30. To: Rudgear (#28)
You can post all the slanted graphs you want, but media matters action org is a partisan organization. Everything they post is going through the spin.
#31. To: go65 (#29)
#32. To: go65 (#30)
Jan 27 In December 1,483 mass layoffs affected 137,992 workers, both down from November In December employers took 1,483 mass layoff actions involving 137,992 workers. Layoff events decreased to its lowest level since April 2008. Annual totals for 2010 events and initial claims declined from record levels reported in 2009.
#33. To: Rudgear, go65 (#22)
(Edited)
That's a rip off and with the use of the threat of off shoring the American employee is forced to shut up and take what ever crumbs are offered or else.
#34. To: Rudgear, go65 (#28)
You can post all the slanted graphs you want
#35. To: Godwinson (#33)
#36. To: Godwinson (#34)
#37. To: Rudgear (#36)
Translation: keep posting gentle spin cycle for the benefit of the uniformed. Left wing Democrats have not mastered reality or challenged their deepest held prejudices and are at a disadvantage.
#38. To: Capitalist Eric (#37)
#39. To: Rudgear, go65 (#35)
Solutions include getting rid of the Federal Reserve, securing the border with Mexico, simplifying the tax code, taking government out of education and turning back to the states. That's how much of a water carrier of oligarchs I am. You don't know me. You lash out because you keep getting your head handed to you,
#40. To: Rudgear, go65 (#36)
Translation:
.
.
.
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